HP does it again: bricking third-party ink

[madires]

HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/03/customers-fume-as-hp-blocks-third-party-ink-from-more-of-its-printers/

 

[RoGeorge]

You were not supposed to do that! 

Joke aside, I've read printer's hardware is underpriced, sold for less than it cost to manufacture, and they hope they will recover the loss by selling you overpriced consumables.  If one only buys the printer and no extra ink, the bottom line for manufacturer will be negative, they will leak money instead of making money.

[SiliconWizard]

Yup. Has been the case for a long time now, pretty much when inkjet printers started to become popular.
So you can't blame manufacturers for trying their best to prevent you from using third-party ink, they make their profits on ink.
You might not like the concept, but keep in mind there is no way you could have gotten the printer that cheap otherwise, to begin with.

If you want to avoid that, just buy a laser printer that can be used with third-party toner without a single issue. The overall cost of ownership will even be much lower in the end, maybe not initially, but over its lifetime.

That's a bit of the same discussion as with  overall durability of new products, repairability, etc. Sure you want your stuff to be more durable and repairable, but are you ready to pay *more* for that?
Are you ready to live with products that work well for long periods of time but may not be the latest up-to-date gear?

[twospoons]

but are you ready to pay *more* for that?

I have never regretted paying more for quality. Not only does it work out cheaper in the long run, the thing itself generally works better.
I am so sick of the 'race to the bottom' engaged in by so many manufacturers.

[james_s]

It's at the point where I think there should be a law that a printer manufacture can't take steps to prevent you from using 3rd party ink, voiding the warranty if it can be demonstrated that there is a reasonable likelihood that the ink/toner used contributed to the failure being the maximum they can do. Hopefully that would invalidate that business model.

[MrMobodies]

I have a 8620 better check the firewall to confirm it doesn't have broadband access.

If the printer breaks down after the warranty, do they care? no.
So why should they care after what ink you are using.

[Ed.Kloonk]

 

[themadhippy]

I've read printer's hardware is underpriced, sold for less than it cost to manufacture, and they hope they will recover the loss by selling you overpriced consumables

AKA the razor razorblade technique,sell the razor at a loss  and the blades at a profit

[WattsThat]

I needed a new printer. Wanted color. I refuse to buy HP based on their razor and razor blades model although I’ve been happy with their laserjets. A color laser was overpriced IMO for home use.

Epson must of heard me grumbling. Stumbled over a thing called the EcoTank. Printers are ~$300. Ink arrives in bottles. The print head is forever. The color tanks are ~125 ml, the black ~250. A set of epson refill bottles are less than typical cartridges but they last a very long time. I’ve run more than 1K pages through this thing and ink levels are still at full. So far, I’m impressed. It’s what ink jets should have been from the start.

If this Epson holds up, HP will be in big trouble in this market space. They deserve to get clobbered, big time.

[james_s]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

[coromonadalix]

officejet pro 7740 paid over 450 CAD    shitty head,  head clog once in a while with original stuff

tried some older FW with non genuine ink,  still clog once in a while   

pffffff

but i need 11x18 flat bed .........  software suck big time

[DimitriP]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used. So once you create your account with HP and activate the printer, you are ready to print. It's really simple.

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/tech/features/hp-explained-what-hp-plus

[5U4GB]

If you want to avoid that, just buy a laser printer that can be used with third-party toner without a single issue. The overall cost of ownership will even be much lower in the end, maybe not initially, but over its lifetime.

That's why I love my second-hand Kyocera.  Put any random toner in there, it says "Original toner installed" on the display and off it goes.  They also still provide drivers for it I-don't-know-how-many-years after it was discontinued.

[Ed.Kloonk]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used. So once you create your account with HP and activate the printer, you are ready to print. It's really simple.

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/tech/features/hp-explained-what-hp-plus

Well in that case they can have the f****** thing back, can't they?

[Black Phoenix]

This is a reason why I was lucky to get an old Konika Minolta MFP back when I was in Portugal from a company shutting down.

Having some experience with such printer's maintenance I replace all the wear parts from it and put it to use at home. Did it consumes a lot of energy when it's used compared with a normal printer, yes?

It is a big guy (2x A4 drawers for close to 1000 sheets of paper each plus an A3 one) but wear parts are cheaper and easy to find online, toners are reasonably cheap and have a long page count and prints both sides, scan both sides, have fax and email functionality and it cost me 1000€ plus 400€ in parts to do the maintenance.

Today still going strong at my mom's house, not needing maintenance in the next 10 years because of the amount it prints per year.

[Stray Electron]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used.

   That will be when the order gets cancelled and printer returned to the vendor.  I'm fed up with electronics has to be tied to the mother ship and that the vendors and the hackers can reprogram at will. And that the manufacturers can simply drop their support when the "new model" comes out and let the items brick themselves because their SW timed out.

  In fact, I'm in the process of buying a new home heating and AC thermostat for a friend that is going blind and the Wi-Fi connected ones are the FIRST to get crossed off of my list.  I'm seriously considering using an old mercury switch based thermostat.  No times, no dates, no vacations schedules, no set backs, and no tiny, tiny menus on a TINY screen that he can no longer read;  just simple and reliable.

  Back to HP; this is just another in a series of very bad management decisions from a once great engineering company that is now clogged with Harvard MBA types looking to make a fast buck.

[coromonadalix]

loll you dont hear about cars too   ford as issued a pattent  loll   for car recollection if not paid etc ... and other brands who want YOU to pay to get options still running in the car lollll   

windows is now a service

you buy things ...... just buying them  YOU acknowledge some mothership communications ..... IOT thing tooo   yada yada  ...   check BIG BUG  humoristic and satiristic movie ... it give you some ideas   



And yes bad HP management,  i just want to trash my huge @$# printer

[PeteH]

It would be worse if they just detected the 3rd party ink and intentionally produced poor prints or randomly increased what appeared to be clogged heads, etc...

[coromonadalix]

I had an Samsung laser printer

They deliberately blown an resistor in the fuser after x hours of use,  not quantity of printing,   to create the need to buy a new one, i had lots of toner left ...  trashed

It's not HP anymore, other brand too will find loopholes in law   and try their best to make us pay

[shapirus]

Epson must of heard me grumbling. Stumbled over a thing called the EcoTank. Printers are ~$300. Ink arrives in bottles. The print head is forever.

...until it gets clogged. Make sure to print at least a page that uses all the 6 colors, a week. I now print one every other day, when the printer isn't in use otherwise.

And then they have that "flush pad", which, when the printer decides that it has to be replaced (I don't know what exactly triggers it -- it's either a page counter or ink flush counter, or maybe both), will require you to pay for its replacement in an authorized service center. It's easy to replace it on your own, but you need service software to "activate" it and reset the respective flag after it's replaced.

Essentialy it means they have created a problem that you must pay them to solve.

[Peabody]

I've been using a Brother inkjet printer for close to a decade, which doesn't phone home or require OEM ink cartridges.  I just received refills from Ebay - two blacks and one of each color for $10 total.  But it won't last forever, and I wondered if anyone has experience with more recent Brother models, particularly laserjets, as to whether they too have switched to the dark side on refills or fake end-of-life stuff.

[MrMobodies]

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used. So once you create your account with HP and activate the printer, you are ready to print. It's really simple.

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/tech/features/hp-explained-what-hp-plus

In CONTRARY to this:
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printer-Setup-Software-Drivers/Why-do-some-printers-need-to-be-connected-to-the-internet-to/td-p/8131898

Why do some printers need to be connected to the internet to work?
 ‎08-06-2021 09:41 AM

Product: Deskjet 4130e
Operating System: Linux
I note that, even after setup, this printer needs to be connected to the internet to work at all; presumably it needs the internet to connect to HP.  Why?
Are there any HP printers that do not require this?
I can ask a friend to use their Windows PC to set the printer up, but I need to tell them exactly what that would involve so that I do not find that they refuse to complete the setup due to being unwilling to do one of its steps.  Can you tell me what these steps are or where I can find out?
In the past I have always been able to install drivers using the OS that the drivers would work with; does setup involve doing anything else?
 
I have used HP printers for decades with excellent results, but I find the above situation confusing and my lack of understanding has robbed me of confidence; I do not know what to expect or whether further problems will arise.

Please help.

08-08-2021 04:25 PM @Michitaka17
HP+ is a choice - one for which your printer is eligible.

HP+ service is not mandatory.

There is no difference between your HP+ eligible printer and the "not HP+" printer hardware.
HP+ is available on certain printers - but HP+ printers are not physically different from their counterparts.
You do not have to purchase a different printer to avoid HP+.
That said, and at this writing, I am not aware of a way to "back out" of having selected HP+.
For one thing, doing so extends the Warranty - this would have to be "undone".
There is no monetary charge for HP+ so there is no "withholding payment" to undo having selected the HP+ option.

If it is not clearly stated on the box that it requires internet in order for it to work I'll take it back and make a complaint.

I see for the first time:
https://www.amazon.com/HP-LaserJet-4001dwe-Wireless-Features/dp/B0B2BH816Y#customerReviews

HP LaserJet Pro 4001dwe Wireless Black & White Printer - Smart Printer Requires Internet  to Operate | Print | Fast Speeds  | Mobile Printing
HP+ enabled MANDATORY printer. The service is required at setup when you purchase laser printers from HP that come with HP
Brand   HP
Connectivity Technology   INTERNET REQUIRED TO OPERATE; print with Wifi or Ethernet
Printing Technology   Laser
Special Feature   Set up and manage printers remotely through the cloud; INTERNET REQUIRED

Date First Available   August 1, 2022

Good they mention these things so to help prevent it being purchased by accident for those who don't want that.

SET UP AND MANAGE FROM ANYWHERE – Perfect for teams in multiple locations. HP Smart Admin Dashboard lets you set up and manage printers from a single dashboard, invite new users, track toner levels, monitor security and control settings from any location.

I could do that already through VPN which does not need internet access to function through the firewall.

STAYS CONNECTED – Intelligent Wi-Fi looks for the best connection to stay online. Always connected and ready to print from anywhere on any device and any network.

Rubbish That depends on your internet connection.

[madires]

I had an Samsung laser printer

They deliberately blown an resistor in the fuser after x hours of use,  not quantity of printing,   to create the need to buy a new one, i had lots of toner left ...  trashed

It's not HP anymore, other brand too will find loopholes in law   and try their best to make us pay

HP bought Samsung's printer business in 2017: https://press.hp.com/us/en/press-releases/2017/hp-completes-acquisition-of-samsung-electronics-co---ltd--printe.html 

[Kleinstein]

I have a brother combined laser printer / copier / fax, that has a rather strange way of telling that the toner is empty. There is a simple mechanical counter for the drum an when the printer shows empty and used for an extended time after that (still works for quite some time) it starts to cause more frequent paper jams  - just turn back the "counter" at the toner cartrige with brute force and all is good again.
I wonder how many of the printers got thrown away for being broken just when the toner is empty or possibly even after getting the new toner, just not installing it.

Another rant about newer HP printers: The printer internal WLAN does not cooperate with older WLAN standards. So 1 HP printer and an old WLAN stick combined mess up the WLAN all around by causing interference / conflicts and new assignments of channels in a near infinite loop. One should replace the old sticks - so there is an easy work around, but I don't think the behavior or the HP printers in compliant with the regulations.

[DimitriP]

  That will be when the order gets cancelled and printer returned to the vendor.  I'm fed up with electronics has to be tied to the mother ship and that the vendors and the hackers can reprogram at will. And that the manufacturers can simply drop their support when the "new model" comes out and let the items brick themselves because their SW timed out.

Available connectivity has caused some "really smart" "management types" to go nuts.
We haven't reached the point of having to scan a QR code before the roll of toilet paper will unroll...but I'm afraid there is some "smart" person out there trying to figure out exactly that.

Regarding dropping support: They do. There is a slew of "old" printers that didn't have drivers for W10. Unless of course you installed a generic/universal/corporate  PCL4 or PCL 5 driver. (skipping the 150MB to 370MB "driver and applications package".

[MrMobodies]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-OfficeJet-Colour-Printer-Instant/dp/B08YQW6SJH
HP OfficeJet 8025e All in One Colour Printer with 9 months of Instant Ink with HP+

HP+ SMART PRINTING SYSTEM – The * optional HP+ system enables your printer to **think ahead so it is more secure, more productive and ready when you are. Requires an HP account, internet connection and use of only Original HP Ink for the life of the printer

*Confused, it says OPTIONAL.
** I find that very insulting and condescending.

It thinks ahead using the strict instructions set by the advanced thinkers at HP for the mass majority who are very stupid and confused and don't know what they are doing that'd they use the wrong ink and not use it correctly by connecting it up to an internet connection that works with it.

What are the requirements of this HP+ printer?
The option cloud - connected HP+ printing system requires an HP account, ongoing, internet connection, and use of Original HP Ink Cartridges for the life of the printer.

One second it says "optional" then a requirement, an option"
If that is not optional like it is that is very misleading

Customer questions & answers
Q: Can i use with out internet
A: no, it needs a wireless internet connection to work, without it, it cannot recivie files
By Lennox R. on 10 August 2021

Very misleading.
Something OPTIONAL that they PUSH in the markerting material.

Clive
1.0 out of 5 stars Warning! OfficeJet 8020e Is NOT designed to be an offline printer, nor
Reviewed in the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 on 10 June 2021
Style Name: HP+ Officejet 8022ePattern Name: SingleVerified Purchase
111 people found this helpful

Denying the user to print to the printer that they own until it is connected to HP.
Designed for mugs and suckers.

What when one they day stop supporting it and and you try to use it standalone and they are using this environmental thing with their cartridges.

https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?id=229W9B&opt=687&sel=PRN

SUPPORTED OPERATING SYSTEMS
Compatible Network Operating Systems

Windows 10, 8.1, 8, 7: 32/64-bit, 2 GB available hard disk space, Internet connection, Internet Explorer. OS X v10.11 El Capitan
macOS Sierra v10.12 (previously OS X)
macOS High Sierra v10.13
1.5 GB available hard disk space
Internet access. Linux: for more information, see http://www.hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html
 Chrome OS

Very vague and not clear that that is an essential requirement before even think about purchasing that printer and hidden under the arrow.

Just noticed on the HP listing: "See complete specs" very stupid idea, I want see the full specs not be presented with a lot of white space inbetween:

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
Minimum System Requirements
Windows 10, 7: 32/64-bit, 2 GB available hard disk space, Internet connection, Internet Explorer

So they say this is optional above with HP+ like trying to confuse the two but hidden away that it is required

Similar thing with the Amazon listing and the white spaces and information hidden away under an arrow:

What are the requirements of this HP+ printer?
The option cloud - connected HP+ printing system requires an HP account, ongoing, internet connection, and use of Original HP Ink Cartridges for the life of the printer.

I wonder what they are trying to say, is that an option or a requirement or a requirement of "connected HP+" if the owner opted for on the printer.

Mumbo jumbo bullshit:

HP+. HP's smart printing system.
*A cloud-connected HP+ printer is smarter – **it keeps itself up to date  and *** ready to print  .[9] First 6 months of Instant Ink included[10]; after 6 months, monthly fee charged automatically unless cancelled. **** Print and scan from the palm of your hand.  ***** Enjoy advanced productivity features for 2 years with HP+.[3] For every page you print with HP+, HP protects or restores forests in equal measure[11]
Enhanced security, reliable connections
Reduce interruptions with self-healing Wi-Fi® that keeps you connected.[2] Get security essentials to help maintain privacy and control. Count on chatbot support and helpful notifications with the HP Smart app.[3] ******Easily share resources – access and print with wireless networking.[2]

* The user is very stupid, they don't have the natural ability to even comprehend connect it up and printing locally without plugging into the internet.

** It does not keep itself up to date, the manufacturer controls it directly and through firmware updates.
I want my stuff left alone to function the way it was, when I brought it without interference.

*** Ready to print? not if it is not connected to HP or I use it standalone.

**** Print and scan from the palm of your hand? UTTER NONSENSE? No internet no print.

***** There is no "advanced productivity" that you can "enjoy" if it can't be used standalone and depends on internet and connection to HP.

****** Easily share resources. Nonsense - No internet no print.

HP+ SMART PRINTING SYSTEM – The optional HP+ system enables your printer to think ahead (and the user can't) so it is more secure (against non HP cartridges), more productive (user not productive) and ready when you are (user very slow and incapable of operating and maintaining printer all by themselves). Requires an HP account, internet connection and use of only Original HP Ink for the life of the printer
...
A cloud-connected HP+ printer is smarter, it keeps itself up to date

With what is mentioned above and when I hear that language and tone I think this is where they are effectively calling the users STUPID.

[DimitriP]

Back to HP; this is just another in a series of very bad management decisions from a once great engineering company that is now clogged with Harvard MBA types looking to make a fast buck.

I don't know who stayed under the HP name or HPE or whatever they call themselves this year.
I'm under the impression that all the "HP greatness" stayed behind with Agilent/Keysight   (another management mangle there-but that's another thread ) , OR by now have retired while HP meant something good.
Sad.

HP is now one of those words that one has to decide by the context.
"Scored an HP instrument on ebay!!!"  =  Great company of the past
"damn HP idiots" = probably printer or all in one PC loaded with "HP helpware"
Sad.

My answer to "which HP printer should I get?"  is : A Brother!

[Stray Electron]

My answer to "which HP printer should I get?"  is : A Brother!

  That's what I did. After having numerous color printers and RARELY using color printing, I found that most of them used various amounts of color ink even to print black.  And I was running out of color ink even though I literally never used color printing!  Grrrr! I finally went and bought a BLACK print only Brother printer and I use that for 99% of my printing. I've replaced the black ink cartridge probably once in the past 15 years.  Before that I was replacing all four color cartridges and a black ink cartridge about every 18 months.  The Brother printer has probably saved me over $1000 in the last 15 or so years.

   The US Federal Trade Commission and some of the regulatory agencies in other countries really should have launched investigations in the trade practices of HP and the other printer manufacturers YEARS AGO.

[xrunner]

I don't know who stayed under the HP name or HPE or whatever they call themselves this year.
I'm under the impression that all the "HP greatness" stayed behind with Agilent/Keysight   (another management mangle there-but that's another thread ) , OR by now have retired while HP meant something good.
Sad.

HP is now one of those words that one has to decide by the context.
"Scored an HP instrument on ebay!!!"  =  Great company of the past
"damn HP idiots" = probably printer or all in one PC loaded with "HP helpware"
Sad.

Great company of the past.

The words I'd use to describe them now & this printer cart trick are "Rat Bastards". 

[DimitriP]

Quote from: Stray Electron on Today at 11:59:01 am>Quote from: DimitriP on Today at 10:18:17 am

My answer to "which HP printer should I get?"  is : A

Brother!

  That's what I did. After having numerous color printers and RARELY using color printing, I found that most of them used various amounts of color ink even to print black.  And I was running out of color ink even though I literally never used color printing!  Grrrr! I finally went and bought a BLACK print only Brother printer and I use that for 99% of my printing. I've replaced the black ink cartridge probably once in the past 15 years.  Before that I was replacing all four color cartridges and a black ink cartridge about every 18 months.  The Brother printer has probably saved me over $1000 in the last 15 or so years.

   The US Federal Trade Commission and some of the regulatory agencies in other countries really should have launched investigations in the trade practices of HP and the other printer manufacturers YEARS AGO.

Here,  read this, but don't do it on a full stomach:    https://press.hp.com/content/dam/hpi/press/press-kits/2020/hp-response-covid-19/Enrique%20Lores%20CEO%20bio%20.pdf

Ok spoiler below:

During his 30-year HP career, Lores has held senior leadership positions spanning HP’s Personal
Systems, Print, Industrial and Services businesses across country, region and worldwide roles.
As President of the company’s $20 billion Imaging, Printing & Solutions business, he consistently
outperformed the company’s peer set with a focus on differentiated innovation, business model
evolution and strategic M&A – including the company’s acquisition of Samsung’s printer business
in 2017 – while fostering important ecosystem partnerships including Canon and Xerox

The guy barely broke 21M in total compensation in 2021 !   ( from https://www.hpannualmeeting.com/pages/executive-compensation/executive-compensation-tables/) 

Things to keep in mind when you consider your next HP printer purchase

[MrMobodies]

https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/how-do-you-set-up-your-hp-printer.html#:~:text=An HP+ activation is irreversible,can create an account now.

Step 5: activate HP+
What is HP+
To use HP+, you need to activate it. With HP+, HP offers a combination of services with which you can print more productively, safely, and sustainably. You get 1 year extra warranty, your documents are secure, and you contribute to the environment. You can decide if you want to use HP+ during the setup. If you choose HP+, you accept the conditions:

You create an HP account.
You connect the printer to the internet.
You only use original HP ink.
An HP+ activation is irreversible. After you activate HP+, you have 7 days to start the HP Instant Ink trial subscription. If you decline HP+, you miss out on this promotion. If you choose HP+, you can create an account now.

Before this recent firmware update. This HP+ option locks the user in and bricks their printer from using third party ink and demands internet to work after the subscription so basically the customer no longer owns the printer and looses control.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/hp-plus/standard.html
HP LaserJet printers without HP+
HP LaserJet M209dw
Buy Hyperlink leads to:
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-laserjet-m209dwe-printer

HP LaserJet M209dwe Printer w/ bonus 6 months Instant Ink toner through HP+
Works only with original HP toner; requires HP account  , internet  to operate
Dynamic security enabled printer

Now they tell you.
The models with 'e' at the end is HP+ that require you to use their ink (before this firmware brick) and demands a working internet connection to HP in order to print.

Reviews on page:

FlyCory
Votes 0  1 out of 5 stars.
Good price, bad experience
a month ago
HP+ is maddening. I have purchased exclusively HP printers. I will never buy another HP product. All I wanted was an inexpensive, black and white laser printer - it took hours to set up, only to learn that it requires an active internet connection. There’s no internet in the location that i needed it. Not only is the app glitchy and unusable, but the printer can’t be added manually unless you’ve set it up through an HP app. Absolutely infuriating experience.
No,I do not recommend this product.

Mad IT guy
Dothan, AL
Votes 2 1 out of 5 stars.
HP+ requirements are unbelievable… Avoid
3 months ago
Buyer beware of HP+ and models that end with “e”. Internet connection is required. You cannot opt out of the HP+ service and you have to associate an HP account with the printer before it will work. * HP has made it very easy to confuse non-HP+ printers like the m209dw and the m209dwe… they look exactly the same. I don’t know who came up with this branding idea, but it’s clearly entrapment. Ridiculous attempt at selling a subscription. Small businesses like ours that need a spare USB or LAN-only printer due to VPNs/firewalls will not even allow HP+ to connect anyway. Complete waste of time. Printer will be returned.
No,I do not recommend this product.

* I thought it was misleading but proven above and below that some of their "NON HP+ printer models" on their "HP LaserJet printers without HP+" now directs you through the URL's to models that require internet connectivity to HP at all times and HP only cartridges.

miranda93420
grover beach ca. Review 1 Vote 1 1 out of 5 stars.
drops internet connection
3 months ago
keeps dropping internet connection and not working
No,I do not recommend this product.

HP Laserjer M209DWE feature highlights
Reliable connections with HP+ 

It looks to me like they are selling the printer as a service with a limited window to opt out on some models.
Why don't the install a sim slot and provide sims in them as part of the service.

So that model that is non HP+ and without the ink issue before the update:
 https://www.amazon.com/HP-Laserjet-Wireless-Printer-Printing/dp/B093JC85GQ

HP Laserjet M209dw Wireless Black & White Printer, with Fast 2-Sided Printing (6GW62F) and Instant Ink $5 Prepaid Code

ASIN   B093JC85GQ
Customer Reviews   3.8 out of 5 stars    12 ratings
3.8 out of 5 stars
Best Sellers Rank   #313,639 in Office Products (See Top 100 in Office Products)
#273 in Inkjet Computer Printers
#858 in Laser Computer Printers
Date First Available   April 26, 2021

Sensible at the top of the page with the specifications.
Nothing about internet required and nothing about dynamic security.
Not many reviews though and 2 negatives ones not showing.

Back to that page for Non HP printers with it says "HP LaserJet printers without HP+" and standard in the URL:
https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/hp-plus/standard.html
HP LaserJet MFP M234dw
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-laserjet-mfp-m234dwe-printer

HP LaserJet MFP M234sdw
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-laserjet-mfp-m234sdwe-printer
The above URL'S on the page lead to the models with 'e' at the end so they are HP+.

HP LaserJet M110w Printer
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-laserjet-m110w-printer

HP LaserJet MFP M140w Printer
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-laserjet-mfp-m140w-printer

Very naughty. So the first two results direct you to HP+ versions printers with non hp ink restrictions (before the brick) and internet requirement just to print locally.

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/23/03/09/2214253/hp-outrages-printer-users-with-firmware-update-suddenly-bricking-third-party-ink

HP Outrages Printer Users With Firmware Update Suddenly Bricking Third-Party Ink (arstechnica.com)198
Posted by BeauHD on Thursday March 09, 2023 @05:15PM from the printers-suck dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica:
HP customers are showing frustration online as the vendor continues to use firmware updates to discourage or, as users report, outright block the use of non-HP-brand ink cartridges in HP printers. HP has already faced class-action lawsuits and bad publicity from "dynamic security," but that hasn't stopped the company from expanding the practice. Dynamic security is a feature used by HP printers to authenticate ink cartridges and prevent use of cartridges that aren't HP-approved. As the company explains: "Dynamic security relies on the printer's ability to communicate with the security chips or electronic circuitry on the cartridges. HP uses dynamic security measures to protect the quality of our customer experience  , maintain the integrity of our printing systems, and protect our intellectual property. Dynamic security equipped printers are intended to work only with cartridges that have new or reused HP chips or electronic circuitry. The printers use the dynamic security measures to block cartridges using non-HP chips or modified or non-HP electronic circuitry. Reused, remanufactured, and refilled cartridges that reuse the HP chip or electronic circuitry are unaffected by dynamic security."

HP is set on continuing to use DRM to discourage its printer customers from spending ink and toner money outside of the HP family. "HP have updated their printers to outright ban 'non-HP' ink! They no longer shows the 'can't guarantee quality' message, but instead cancels your print completely until you inset a HP ink cartridge," Reddit user grhhull posted Tuesday. "After contacting HP, they advised 'this is due to the recent 'update' of all printers.'" It's unclear when HP issued updates for which model printers, but there are alleged customer complaints online stemming from late last year, showing plenty of customers surprised their printer no longer worked with non-HP ink cartridges after an update. Some pointed to third-party brands they had relied on for years.

HP community support threads include complaints about the OfficeJet 7740 and OfficeJet Pro 6970. HP lists both printers, as well as others, as able to circumnavigate dynamic security under specific conditions. However, HP's support page states this only applies to models manufactured before December 1, 2016. For more examples, there are comments on HP's support community suggesting that HP's OfficeJet 6978 and 6968 were recently affected. Both printers are discontinued, but HP's product pages make it clear that the fickle nature of dynamic security means that third-party ink could stop working at any time. And HP's dynamic security page also leaves the door open for the sudden bricking of functioning ink: "Firmware updates delivered periodically over the internet will maintain the effectiveness of the dynamic security measures," the page reads. "Updates can improve, enhance, or extend the printer's functionality and features, protect against security threats, and serve other purposes, but these updates can also block cartridges using a non-HP chip or modified or non-HP circuitry from working in the printer, including cartridges that work today."

So that's what that security thing does  "Dynamic security" it works against the user and the company pretends (HP pretending to be the customer) that this "protect(s) the quality of our customer experience"

HP uses dynamic security measures to protect the quality of our customer experience

So out of touch.

HP interferes and bricks printers not part of HP+ in ways where it refuses to work with third party print cartridges.
Company calling the customers stupid claiming that their printer is smarter than them and can think (where it is HP pulling the strings in the background) with this "Dynamic security".

So what from I understand:
Dynamic security
So a third party ink provider finds a way to make their chips work with the printer.
HP spies on the user through the software to determine if cartridge is non HP.

If HP suspect that the cartridge chip is non HP they will instruct all their printers that are connected up to block that chip or make changes to their chip info on the cartridges later on and through firmware updates.

https://www.gearrice.com/update/how-to-prevent-your-hp-printer-from-updating-and-be-able-to-continue-using-non-original-cartridges/

How to prevent your HP printer from updating and be able to continue using non-original cartridges
By Arthur Morgan11/03/2023 2 Mins Read
...
Turn off automatic updates with HP Smart on your HP printer
It is not the only method with which to disable automatic updates from HP, although the next two methods are somewhat more complex. In fact, when using the HP Smart App you only have to follow the following path: advanced settings, security and manage settings. In this last menu you have the option to disable updates.

In case the update has already been applied, the only thing you can do is factory reset the HP printer and thus return it to the factory settings. The printer will have the version it was released with, although you may have to update it a couple of versions until it is at the version before the last update.

In short, the latest update that HP has launched has managed to put users who use printers on their feet on a day-to-day basis. And, it is that, using software that third-party cartridges are not compatible is something that has generated enormous controversy due to the nonsense that this implies for users.

I bet they will "fix" that problem above in order "to protect the quality of their customers experience."

When that reviewer above talks about HP confusing the models between HP+(e) and NON HP+ to try and entrap customers into a subscription model I don't think their attempt worked good enough as they expected it to so they chose the firmware brick again to target the ink.

Joke: So customers can't complain to HP as they won't be as likely to find printers of the same model that can use non HP cartridges.
Forced ink forced connectivity to operate.
I will think of this as the HP aggression.

[jonpaul]

Used,HP Laserjets, for ,decade's

4050, iii, lately M12W.

no internet connection on the old models
Accept clone, refill cartridge

B&W, cart lasts,1000s pages.

Dumped,all our,HP, Epson, Brother inkjet printers and fax, long ago.

Use a professional 12x18" Konica Minolta for color

Jon

[Stray Electron]

   HP's new printer sales pitch;  "now includes free Brickware!"

[rdl]

Not that I'd ever buy an HP product new, they've been on my very exclusive shit list since they first tried this trick in 2016, but I wonder how this HP+ can be irreversible. Doesn't that mean you can never buy a new printer and sell your old (HP+) one as used?

[MrMobodies]

https://www.ebuyer.com/1427042-hp-laserjet-pro-mfp-4102dwe-a4-mono-multifunction-laser-printer-with-hp-2z622e-b19
Shows full specification and that is is "HP PLUS" which is nice but:
It does not mention of it demanding internet access or the use of genuine HP print cartridges in order to operate and nothing about dynamic security.
apart from something that doesn't seem related in the small print:

4 Automatic delivery and consolidated bill - Printers require direct connection to the Internet for program participation. Internet access sold separately.

Look at the price difference between the NON "e"/HP+ model.

HP LaserJet Pro MFP 4102dwe A4 Mono Multifunction Laser Printer with HP Plus (Mfr part code: 2Z622E#B19)
£ 293.99  inc. vat with £243.99 after Cashback deal

HP LaserJet Pro MFP 4102fdw A4 Mono Multifunction Laser Printer (Mfr part code: 2Z624F#B19)
£448.98  inc. vat

£154.99 more for a Non HP+ printer with no internet and (genuine cartridge requirements up until now)

Nothing on Ebuyer's own listing about the requirement of internet and genuine ink cartridges contrary to the (HP LaserJet Pro MFP 4102dwe) model selling in the HP shop:
https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?id=2z622e

Introducing HP+: The Smart Printing System[a]
Get 3 months of Instant Ink included[c] and an extra year of HP warranty.[f] * This HP+ printer requires use of only Original HP Toner, an HP account and ongoing connection to the Internet. To learn about other printers without HP+, visit this page.

Now that is clear.

Disclaimer small print hidden under an arrow:

[a]. HP+ smarter printing system: Utilizing technology in the HP+ system and compared to HP standard consumer printers without HP+.  HP+ printers are ready when you are with improved connectivity utilizing Smart Driver and Print/Scan Doctor technology,  more secure with * Smart  Security technology (to lock the user in), more productive through HP Smart Advance features included for 2 years,  and more sustainable by enabling Forest First printing and net-zero deforestation prints.​

​. Never run out:    Based on plan usage  , Internet connection to eligible HP printer, valid credit/debit card, email address,  and delivery service in your geographic area.​​

​​[c]. Up to 3 months of Instant Ink (see printer details for specific term):  Instant Ink sign up required. Instant Ink not available in all countries. Subject to monthly page limit of plan selected (NEVER RUN OUT... LIARS). Must complete Instant Ink signup within 7 days of setting up the printer with the HP-recommended setup process as indicated in the instructions that came with your printer. Unless service is cancelled within the promotional period online at www.hpinstantink.com, a monthly service fee, based on your current service plan, plus tax and overage fees will be charged to your credit/debit card. Customer will be charged for any overage fees and applicable taxes at the end of each month in the promotional period. Use of in-box ink or toner cartridge is included in period of offer. One offer redeemable per printer. Included months offer with Instant Ink subject to change after 31.10.2021. Offer cannot be redeemed for cash. Setup Offer may be combined with other offers; see terms and conditions of the other offer for more details. Requires a valid credit/debit card, an email address, and Internet connection to printer. See additional offer information available during online signup process. For service details, see www.hpinstantink.com.

​​[d]. HP Smart app: Requires the HP Smart app download. For details on local printing requirements see www.hp.com/go/mobileprinting. Certain features/software are available in English language only and differ between desktop and mobile applications. Subscription may be required. Subscription may not be available in all countries. See details at www.hpinstantink.com. Internet access required and must be purchased separately. HP account required for full functionality. List of supported operating systems available in app stores. Fax capabilities are for sending a fax only. ** After 2 years, monthly fee applies to continue advanced features with HP Smart Advance. HP Smart Advance is not available in all countries. For more information, see www.hpsmart.com.

​[e]. Net zero-deforestation prints: See additional details at www.hp.com/sustainableimpact. Investment includes NGO partnerships targeted to protect forests, improve responsible forest management and help develop Science Based Targets (SBT) for responsible management of forests.

[f]. Additional Warranty: HP+ DeskJet, ENVY and LaserJet: Additional 1-year HP Warranty is provided with HP+ in addition to 1-year standard HP Warranty. Refer to the documentation in the printer box for further information on HP warranty. HP Warranty benefits apply in addition to any statutory rights provided under applicable consumer protection laws related to non-conformity of goods with the contract of sale. Such consumer statutory rights are not limited or affected in any manner by the HP Warranty. See: https://support.hp.com/gb-en/document/c03922002?openCLC=trueOfficeJet Pro: Up to 3yrs HP Warranty in total, subject to activation of HP+ at set up and online registration. Three years consist of: (1) one year standard HP warranty; (2) one year extra HP warranty through HP+ activation at setup; and (3) one year bonus HP warranty through separate online registration, which must be completed at www.hp.com/eu/bonuswarranty/ within 60 days of printer purchase. Refer to the documentation in the printer box for further information on HP warranty. HP Warranty benefits apply in addition to any statutory rights provided under applicable consumer protection laws related to non-conformity of goods with the contract of sale. Such consumer statutory rights are not limited or affected in any manner by the HP Warranty. See: https://support.hp.com/gb-en/document/c03922002?openCLC=true

​[g]. Cartridge recycling: Where the Planet Partners program is available. For details: hp.com/hprecycle.​

[h]. Save up to 50% on toner Based on monthly subscription cost for HP Instant Ink 1,500 page plan vs. average transactional cost per page of in-class monochrome A4 laser printers and MFPs < $450 USD that use original, standard-capacity integrated toner cartridges (toner and drum in one cartridge). Buyers Lab October 2020 study commissioned by HP, based on research of publicly available information as of 09/30/2020. Printers selected by market share as reported by IDC Quarterly Hardcopy Peripherals Tracker - Final Historical 2020Q1. For details and latest report, see: www.keypointintelligence.com/HPTonerServiceROW.

So they have gone from hiding the disclaimer small print under an arrow to hiding the full specifications in other listings.[/quote]

* Smart Security technology, more productive through HP Smart Advance features included for 2 years

** After 2 years, monthly fee applies to continue advanced features with HP Smart Advance. HP Smart Advance is not available in all countries. For more information, see www.hpsmart.com.

https://www.hpsmart.com/gb/en/smart-advance

FAQ
What is HP Smart Advance?
HP Smart Advance is a productivity tool in the HP Smart app that offers advanced scanning and other document processing features. HP Smart Advance is available on eligible HP printers.

I could pretty much do everything I need most that are on that list with my existing printers, except I wouldn't use a stupid "app" to do it on a tiny input-limited touch screen phone or tablet.

It wouldn't surprise me if they prevent you from doing basic scanning after two years until you start paying up monthly for it.
Joke: Oh basic scanning is now a "Hp Smart Advance feature" that needs to be paid for.

I see that they are trying to sell the printers cheaply for a fraction less off the price with these clauses to guarantee them revenue from the ink they sell to gradually pay off the difference. I wouldn't mind paying the extra but not if they are going to start interfering and controlling the printer remotely at every opportunity when they feel like it like now to prevent third party ink. It reminds me of a similar thing I read about to do with property.

There is this company called HomeWise (HW60+), what they do is buy a property outright and charge the occupants 2/3 (knock 1/3 off). Under the agreement (*depending on their situation) when they die they take the 2/3 (the property now belongs to them) under the claims that the occupant can purchase property worth more than they can afford *.

Also last year with the bullshit that Fox-ess, Ginlong and a load of other inverter manufacturers were up to when I was finding out about a monitoring appliance. Upload the data to the website to download it no broadband no datalogging or monitoring to do with the "smart" wifi stick they wanted to sell me where they control the inverter directly and issue firmware updates automatically and I can change parameters on the website which is a big nono.

[madires]

And we already have a nice acronym for what HP does: PaaS (Platform Printer as a Service)

[mapleLC]

Stick HP where its most funny... own and maintain their old workhorse printers forever!

My best example.

HP 2050 series printers, its the only one I use.

Cheap cartridges, workhorse printer.  The DN has networking.

You can do 200k pages on them no problem.  I bought a used one with 160k pages, not a single problem 5 years on.

While my wife has these stupid level thingys on her pretty printer with a shiny display and the never used scanner.

[jonpaul]

Awful EX HP CEO Carly  FIORINA  did an excellent job of destroying a fine and Pioneering electronics company.

The breakup into printer, PC and instruments ( Agilent, Keysight) resulted in much worse,and more costly products, poor service and these kind of,DRM printers.

Our HP instruments from the Golden age of 1970s..1990s are,all still in service as,are,the three 4050TN and M12W printers.

Most,recent  HP ( Keysight) instrument,6.5 digit DVM 34465A off  a local list, new, with Keysight calibration for $1000.

Perhaps my last HP!

Jon

[MrMobodies]

Just found this:
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/electronics/hps-software-update-made-printers-incompatible-with-other-ink-cartridges-class-action-alleges/
474 thoughts on HP’s Software Update Made Printers Incompatible With Other Ink Cartridges, Class Action Alleges

45 pages with the first from October 19, 2021 and last March 10, 2023 so they had been doing this for some time.

I thought they stopped soon after their first attempt in 2016 where they backpeddled and offered to undo do it through the firmware.

[Halcyon]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used. So once you create your account with HP and activate the printer, you are ready to print. It's really simple.

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/tech/features/hp-explained-what-hp-plus

What a load of shit. Only in the rarest of cases should a printer need to be exposed to the internet. Otherwise it has no business connecting outside your network.

[themadhippy]

What a load of shit. Only in the rarest of cases should a printer need to be exposed to the internet. Otherwise it has no business connecting outside your network.

yea but HP+ is  helping save  the planet man

Additionally, printing with HP+ will cause every page you print to contribute to Forest First, HP's environmental pledge to plant new trees, and you'll be able to recycle your printer cartridges.

wonder how many pages = 1 tree

[james_s]

I've had really good experience with my HP printer, but when I tried to recommend a printer to a friend I encountered that HP+ garbage and that really rubbed me the wrong way, I find it absolutely unacceptable, especially the fact that with models that have it as optional you are locked into it once you try it. There is absolutely no excuse for that, the lock-in serves absolutely no purpose to the user.

I wonder if it's possible to hack one of the E models with the ROM from a fully featured non-E printer.

[Someone]

The US Federal Trade Commission and some of the regulatory agencies in other countries really should have launched investigations in the trade practices of HP and the other printer manufacturers YEARS AGO.

Been and done:
https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/hp-to-compensate-printer-customers
They'd look at this discussed remote update to see if it has the user opt in with informed consent.

[Psi]

There kinda needs to be a donation/crowdfunded organization kind of like the Institute for Justice but instead of helping people defend stupid court cases they run ads exposing stupid company decisions and calling out BS publicly.

Company should be scared to do BS stuff but they're not and that's the problem.

[MrMobodies]

What a load of shit. Only in the rarest of cases should a printer need to be exposed to the internet. Otherwise it has no business connecting outside your network.

yea but HP+ is  helping save  the planet man

Additionally, printing with HP+ will cause every page you print to contribute to Forest First, HP's environmental pledge to plant new trees, and you'll be able to recycle your printer cartridges.

wonder how many pages = 1 tree

They seem to smear it all over their campaign, so when they say it requires internet connectivity to operate and genuine hp ink cartridges that environmental thing is shoved at the end of what I think as a possible distraction.

What I don't understand is:
That article:
https://reviewed.usatoday.com/tech/features/hp-explained-what-hp-plus

How does HP+ improve smart printing?

Requiring a broadband connection to HP or printer won't work and and they call that an improvement.
I could do everything very easily I need to on a desktop

Who thinks she is being paid by HP for her article?

HP printers have gotten me and legions of young people through schooling, whether you've shared your printer with a crew of roommates during finals week or you've toted (carry) your trusty printer to and from your next academic venture[/b]. With graduation season upon us, you may be figuring out what you need for the next school year or for your next job, 1* be that offloading old tech, 2* rearranging your subscriptions, or 3*restructuring your home office.

1* Why would you get rid of something that works?
2* rearranging your subscriptions should require a printer and they talk about saving the environment unless they are trying to mention it to make it look normal.
3* So I am going to get rid of perfectly good things because I am changing a room around?

If you're busy staging your next move, you might want to take advantage of free services for tech products you're considering investing in. HP is home to HP+, which is the cloud-printing service from HP that comes with some HP printers. We've broken down the details of the service below.

It is NOT free after two years according to the terms and connections.

[mapleLC]

There kinda needs to be a donation/crowdfunded organization kind of like the Institute for Justice but instead of helping people defend stupid court cases they run ads exposing stupid company decisions and calling out BS publicly.

Company should be scared to do BS stuff but they're not and that's the problem.

Some have not learned yet that these kinds of non-profit structures are generally sink-holes.  It's where people with useless "educations" go to "work" making overall life worse for everyone.

I needed some magnets the other day.  Ebay right?  No!  Some blovaton institute in canada harassed ebay to the point where 1 less person in a decade may swallow a stupid magnet.  That stupid nonprofit got to Amazon too... you can only get gorilla fist sized magnets on amazon because you may want to swallow one that's 3/4" or something even more idiotic.

Careful with this kind of thinking, as it leads to jobs for those which generally would fail once the oversupply of librarians subsided.

[madires]

What a load of shit. Only in the rarest of cases should a printer need to be exposed to the internet. Otherwise it has no business connecting outside your network.

Especially since HP had plenty of security issues with their print server software. Also, a network printer can be used as gateway by attackers (was demonstrated a few times already). From a security perspective, a network printer with internet access is like asking for a disaster.

[shapirus]

What a load of shit. Only in the rarest of cases should a printer need to be exposed to the internet. Otherwise it has no business connecting outside your network.

Not only outside the local network, but it also has no business connecting anywhere inside the network as well. Its only business is to accept incoming connections to receive print jobs.

[Halcyon]

What a load of shit. Only in the rarest of cases should a printer need to be exposed to the internet. Otherwise it has no business connecting outside your network.

Not only outside the local network, but it also has no business connecting anywhere inside the network as well. Its only business is to accept incoming connections to receive print jobs.

Indeed!

[madires]

Exemptions (mostly in business environments):
- alarming/logging
- authentication
- sending scans to a specific destination, e.g. local email

[shapirus]

Exemptions (mostly in business environments):
- alarming/logging
- authentication

Agreed. Some configurations may involve this.

- sending scans to a specific destination, e.g. local email

We talked about printers, not scanners or MFDs .

[madires]

Video rant from Louis Rossmann: Dynamic security secures your money into HP's pockets (https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/dynamic-security-secures-your-money-into:a)

[james_s]

It will secure their printers into the dumpster and my future money into some other company's pockets.

[MrMobodies]

b

Exemptions (mostly in business environments):
- alarming/logging
- authentication
- sending scans to a specific destination, e.g. local email

I just checked the manual difference between the 8020 and 8020e plus model and even with all their demands met it seems you are right:

HP PLUS printers.
Basically they are full of shit.

No scan to memory device either.

Scan to network folder. I can't believe they have not got this basic useful feature that does not require, broadband, (connection to hp as it would) an account, and an Amazon AWS to scan, a stupid "app" called the HP "SMART" app that depends on a phone/tablet, it's battery, operating system changes and HP's willingness to continue support any change in the future.

Scan to network folder just needs a fileserver or network shared folder, "touch a button on the printer" foldername, click shortcut and there it is.
So they removed this feature and are using all these fancy buzzwords names, HP+ enhanced, improvement, dynamic this and that, "smarter app", reliable, easier, touch of a button etc and they remove something that was at the touch of a button and make the marketing look prettier.

HP User Guide OfficeJet Pro 8020 series (STANDARD/NON HP+)
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c06291141.pdf

HP+ (PLUS) User Guide HP OfficeJet Pro 8020E SERIES
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c06940368.pdf


What use to be optional (HP PLUS) OR HP+ has now been embedded in the printers firmware in certain identical models marketed in such a way to confuse the buyer into buying the HP PLUS models which deprive and restrict them of  functions they'd usually have with printers before or the standard model.

Look what I found:
https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/et4cf2/hp_officejet_pro_8025_scan_to_network_folder/

Posted by
u/jtbis
3 years ago contact the person who set up the printer."

HP Officejet Pro 8025 scan to network folder
On my previous printer (OJ 8710), I was able to scan directly from the printer to a Windows network folder. On my new printer, that option doesn't show up under the scan menu. When I go to the "scan" tab in the Web UI, I get "You cannot use this function because it has been disabled. For more information,

I bet they have got the e model.

Search Google "HP Officejet Pro 8025" -> shopping
and the search is full of these "e" models.
See attachment.

Good that Google shopping has a "Best match" that actually works and shows the relevant item.

In other words HP+ or (e) models are just locked down printers.

[Peabody]

Are all printer manufacturers as bad as HP?  Including Brother?  Cause if they aren't, why would anyone ever buy an HP printer ever again?

[james_s]

Name recognition? I bought my HP printer because I'd had good experience with them in the past, and mine is fine too, but it's pre-"e".

Brother was always one I avoided because at the time at least the toner they use didn't work well with toner transfer PCB etching.

[SiliconWizard]

Obviously first thing is to again avoid inkjet printers. The whole business model of inkjet printers has *always* revolved around the same thing, and it's making profit with ink.
You will almost never find any inkjet printer on the market without this crap, except maybe for the most expensive ones with rechargeable ink reservoirs.

It has also spread to laser printers as printers cost has plumetted. A $100 or less laser printer? You really think it's going to make vendors any money? They'll get it from toner.

Your best bet is to target pro or semi-pro gear these days. It will be more expensive obviously, but over the life of the printer, not so much. I would avoid HP these days even in their "pro" lines and go with something like Xerox. Brother wasn't too bad, but from what I've seen, quality has gone downhill, I would stay away now.

[MrMobodies]

I forgot to mention. I was give this Brother MFC-J5910DW printer. It can print A3 but only A4 scan.
There is a glitch with it that when wifi is switched on, the ethernet stops working and even after disabling the wifi until factory resetting it. Some days after I got it and discovered the issue the owner already brought a new one.

What I noticed about these cartridges is that I can't see any electrical contacts.
They have this glass window.

So it looks like a light sensor/receiver is used to detect the ink levels through the glass.
I don't think I have seen a cartridge like this before.

I don't use it often but only when I want to print quality stuff out and it has been quite reliable everytime I use it.

I also have a QL820NW printer with battery that still works and a PT-E550WVP that I got in 2018 and both still work without problems. What I like about the PT-E550WVP is that even thought it comes with a lithium battery it also has contacts in the same place for AA batteries. They also use the Pt touch software and very flexible.

I remembered this Brother printer in a college once back in 2010. It was used for printing test results and would go through many boxes of paper in a week. Sometimes a part used to break inside. I can't remember what part but when the toner ran out they found it cheaper and quicker to print to the Canon photocopier upstairs when I connected it up. They'd go upstairs and it would be finished and stapled up. I think it was a Canon IR-3045. Scanning on that was really good, 2 seconds to scan a something in a3 using the network Scangear tool.

Speaking of ENTRAPMENT:
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printer-Setup-Software-Drivers/Disable-regret-HP-printer/td-p/8269413

Netnissen ‎01-12-2022 06:06 AM Product: HP Officejet 8014e
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 (64-Bit)
Hi all.
During setup of my printer, an HP Officejet 8014e, I regrettable and without actually reading the disclaimer I accepted the HP+, and instant Ink. 
I have never used any of the services, or Ink. But now I have found, that by accepting HP+ (* A HP+ PRINTER), I can ONLY use HP original Ink cartridges.
I regret so terrible that I did not investigate further, what HP+ was.
My question, is there a way to get out of the HP+ "program", so as I can use "compatible"  Ink cartridges, not from HP ?

01-29-2022 06:19 PM
I have been informed from HP, that in printer registered as HP+, its impossible to revert this decision  .
This is very disappointing, and to me it feels like entrapment of customers into only using original ink cartridges.

At first I was simply informed that this was the way it is.
But as I found the following statement on HP's homepage :

"There’s no added cost to sign up for HP+. You just need to own a supported HP printer and use genuine HP ink or toner. Plus, if you decide you aren’t delighted with HP+, you can change, pause, or cancel it at any time at no cost."

Pursuing this statement, HP was willing to supply me with a new printer.
When this is received, I will under NO circumstance register it, and in the future keep a LONG way from HP+.

All of this being said, I prefer using genuine HP ink cartridges. But sometimes, when on a low budget month, I will have to buy the compatible ones, and I this its very unprofessional business from HP, trying to force consumer into using original  ink ALL the time, not having the possibility of printing with other products.
I will close this Post, but how that someone will find my story useful, and not register as HP+ if copy compatible Ink are to be used with there printers.
I would also hope HP, would remove this "LOCK" in the future, and rely on costumers to buy the HP quality, instead of forcing consumers into using there products.

Now I find this bit is interesting:

Repairatrooper ‎01-29-2022 07:04 PM
An E series product requires HP  + to even function. It is labelled right on the box and if you had not accepted you would not be able to use the printer.

Netnissen 01-30-2022 03:16 AM
Hej Repairatrooper. ‎
Now I just checked my own box of my e printer.
It states intended, not required.
In my book intended is still an option. So I if printer will not work at all, without having HP+ accepted, again this shows me that HP is performing entrapment.
I guess its Canon for me next time !!!

Repairatrooper ‎01-30-2022 11:08 AM
Sorry for the misinformation in my previous post, HP+ is optional and I would agree that it is somewhat restrictive that there is no method to correct a wrong choice made during setup.  That said, the E model numbers are restricted to using HP OEM or refilled HP cartridges, either way the cartridge must contain un-modified OEM circuitry.

So HP confuse the HP+ addon that's available for any other printer with the HP+/e series. I think I know what "e" stands for now after comparing the manuals. e=embedded but I think in this case calling it entrapment is very well fitting.

Joke: HP's new Officejet 8010 entrapment series printers.
The new HP way. Entrapment using a play on words and deception.

Why are they even called "HP+" to begin with when it is more like "HP-" where you loose features.

[Peabody]

What I noticed about these cartridges is that I can't see any electrical contacts.
They have this glass window.
So it looks like a light sensor/receiver is used to detect the ink levels through the glass.
I don't think I have seen a cartridge like this before.

My Brother printer has cartridges like that.  There's a little float flag that drops out of the way when the ink level drops, and a light sensor detects that.  But I noticed that the printer would shut down way too soon because you were "out of ink", so that a lot of ink was left in the old cartridge when you had to put in a new one.  The solution is to cut out a piece of black electrical tape and cover that window.  Then printing will continue until the ink actually runs out.  I just install that tape on all four cartridges when they are new.

[MrMobodies]

Thanks you, there is some left in there.
At least that removes the incentives of what is being done here.


Dynamic security secures your money into HP's pockets
Louis Rossmann 1.76M subscribers 48K views  1 day ago

Youtube Transcript:

1:37 let's just go over what HP has to say about it so these printers use
something called Dynamic security Dynamic security relies on the printer's ability to
communicate with the security chips or electronic circuitry on the cartridges HP uses
Dynamic security measures to protect the quality of the customer experience maintain the
Integrity of our printing systems and * protect their intellectual property
Dynamic security equipped to printers are intended to work only with
cartridges that have new or reused HP chips or electronic circuitry the
printers that use the dynamic security measures to block cartridges using
non-hp chips or modified or non-hp electronic circuitry reused.

* So they are using copyright as an excuse.
In that case if they care about the printer so much in this way whether it is new or out of warranty that didn't come with Dynamic Security then they should buy the printers back as some had been mentioning in the comment feed.

Above statement found here too:
https://borncity.com/win/2022/09/10/hp-neue-druckersperren-euroconsumer-vergleich-erreicht-entschdigung-fr-verbraucher/

They seem to have listened to "customer experience" at some point 2016 and reversed it and I read they provided updates to undo it. Now they are pretending the quality of the customer experience by ignoring and not listening.

I came across this printer many years ago. It belonged to someone as a spare never opened. Their printer broke down so they asked me to set it up.
I took it about the box, it looked really nice and compact large screen but when I switched it on the and horrors. They ruined it.

They put these distracting annoy things, I think there were large tiles to games or something on the top always stuck there and they made the icons that do matter at the bottom smaller and removed the labels. I couldn't find a way to hide them.
I think of it as the most stupid printer I have ever come across.

I just found what it is: HP Photosmart 7520 e-All-in-One Printer series (about 2013)
E model: Surprise surprise.

I said to her, what the hell are games doing on a printer and pushed in front of the main screen. This is insane and beyond stupid. No printer should have games on it it's job is to print. Not spam the user with unwanted things.

I told the lady to take it back. She could as it was over a couple of years old and no receipt.
Apparently they were not games but they did look like it to me:


Actually I found some with labels on the top and bottom
https://www.druckerchannel.de/device_info.php?ID=3648&t=hp_photosmart_7520

I don't remember there being labels on the icons on the home screen with the one I looked at (which I thought was very stupid) and even after touching the screen or maybe it was put on later through the the firmware or maybe I simply forgot. I did remember getting very angry at the stupidity that I had to face trying to read the manual and check around for solutions to get rid of the e-app things before I called the lady up to show her the problems and suggested she took it back for a refund.

Complaints about it:
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Mobile-Printing-Cloud-Printing/HP-Photosmart-7520-How-to-remove-all-eprint-icons/td-p/2336853
HP Photosmart 7520 - How to remove all eprint icons

‎7520usr New member 01-16-2013 02:02 PM

Greetings,

Just bought a Photosmart 7520 to my father. He finds screen touch eprint icons too distracting. He is not too keen on eprint services and these icons add complexity to the printer user interface. Is it possible to remove them from the main menu?

I tried eprintcenter, could manage to remove some eprint services that were added during firmware update but Google, Dreamwork and some hp eprint services are still present

Thanks

Garytech1 level 10 ‎01-17-2013 02:54 PM

No you will not be able to completely remove all the ePrint apps  that show up on the front panel of your printer. There are a few that will stay along with the get more apps option .

7520usr New member ‎01-18-2013 01:02 AM
Thanks garytech1, i guess that it would have been nice being able to swap the first and second button row.

The first button row (preferences, ink levels, ...) is quite narrow and prone to mistakenly push a thumb sized pocoyo eprint service .

Sekwof New member ‎10-19-2013 07:10 PM
Yes the icons for unwanted apps do mess up the screen with unneeded complexity. Take a lesson from Google! *They work hard to streamline their interface. Users do not need more distractions, features, bell and whistles. It's just clutter. I was hoping I wouldn't have to take an hour of my time to remove these icons one at a time. It looks like hp just wants us to use up those print cartridges with extraneous nonsense

BristolPete1 Level 2 ‎12-02-2014 04:27 PM
Do you realise that childish icons for Airfix etc make what is a good product look a bit of a joke when it comes to being a serious printer. A bit like putting fluffy dice in a Porche.

No problem with having them there but someone was having a bad day when they signed it off with no removal protocols.

Emily77 New member ‎05-17-2015 05:09 PM
So the answer from Garytech1 is that they cannot be removed but options are to get more???

Bboytrife New member ‎11-26-2015 03:24 PM
I want to remove the silly apps from the home screen.

macthrift New member ‎05-12-2016 10:14 AM
How can I remove the unwanted icons on the

Joke: Oh they listened alright. I bet the same design team who designed that are still there today in power behind all this HP+ locked down, e-printer and cartridge bricking nonsense. They didn't listen then to complaints about that printer and now they are not listening at all unless they are forced to.

So on that model in 2013 they ENTRAP the user with unwanted promotional things that gets in the way of printing tasks and frustrates the user.
Now they do it to everything else and the "stupid" apps have been set to take over.

Users are very stupid but we have an "app for that" it is called the "smart app"
Want to print, "Smart app"
Want to scan "Smart app"
Want to email "Smart app"
Because you are stupid you need something that says "smart" to do stuff for you.

I imagine soon they'll stop releasing their standard printers once they got most of their customers entrapped on their "E" ENTRAPMENT models and HP+ nonsense.

Datasheet:
https://arbikas.com/pub/media/files/CZ045A-:-HPP7520-specs.pdf

Photosmart 7520 e-All-in-One Printer
Get *HP's premier home printing experience for superb versatility and photo
quality. Print, copy, scan to e-mail,3 fax, and access Web content4 with the
color touchscreen. HP ePrint—print from your smartphone or tablet from
virtually anywhere.2

Cambridge dictionary:

versatility noun [ U ] uk / ˌvɜː.səˈtɪl.ə.ti / us / ˌvɝː.səˈtɪl.ə.t̬i / the quality of being versatile (= able to change easily or to be used for different purposes)

Well they call it "superb versatility" and the users can't turn the e-print apps off.

Expand your home printing horizons
• Print documents and photos, make copies and scans, send
faxes, access the Web,4 and print on the go.2

Very ambiguous. "on the go" can mean can also mean at home.

Small print:

2 Requires an Internet connection to the printer

Looks like this nonsense started out in 2013 on this printer.

[Zucca]

Just for reference and because it fits here

full story

[MrMobodies]

Relating to: 7:06 in the video

https://www.eff.org/cases/lexmark-v-static-control-case-archive#:~:text=The Sixth Circuit ruled in,software through other open interfaces.

Why did Lexmark lose its lawsuit?
The Sixth Circuit ruled in favor of SCC holding that (1) some of the Lexmark software was insufficiently creative to deserve copyright protectio and (2) the authentication handshake did not effectively protect the software because printer owners could directly access the software through other open interfaces.

So with these "e" models it looks like HP was creative and took care of the "other open interfaces" by restricting it through their stupid "smart app".

I can see how Louise Rossman is right when about the race to the bottom and buying the cheapest.

I remember many years ago I gave away a HP 3390 printer that I had for a few years to a friend.
the genuine cartridges were I think nearly £90 or so but lasted quite well.

After I gave it away the prices went up and up. I use order print cartridges for this friend and they'd pay me back as they didn't want to be bothered with ordering stuff online. I had two places I'd get them from where they were selling at similar prices, I think it was Ebuyer or Scan. So in 2014 it went up to £110, in 2015 £130 (he complained a bit at that point), in 2017 £180. He said he was going to down the road to an ink refill shop and for £40 they took his old cartridge and gave him a refurbished one that they refilled and no problems since.

I'd expect it to be much more than that as £40 seems very cheap for it but I just don't know where the middleground is between cheap or what is reasonable pricing to the prices that cartridge type had gone up tpp.