HP printer disaster continues

[madires]

HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/hp-printers-computers-ink-cartridges-rivals/

HP is blocking third-party printer ink again: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/11/23635168/hp-printer-update-brick-third-party-ink-dynamic-security

But there are also good news. A new EU directive in the work will make HP's practice illegal (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2023-0201_EN.html), i.e. preventing the use of third party spare parts or consumables, or limiting functionality when third party parts are used.

[Haenk]

In other good news, France is hitting Apple for serial-number locking parts. I assume this will eventually lead to prohibiting vendor-locks at all.

[jc101]

No doubt, thanks to Brexit, this will pass the UK by.  It's a gift that just keeps on giving... 

[madires]

Bonus game for some OfficeJets:
- HP OfficeJet printers are bricking following a recent software update (https://www.engadget.com/hp-officejet-printers-are-bricking-following-a-recent-software-update-223559237.html)
- HP rushes to fix bricked printers after faulty firmware update (https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/hp-rushes-to-fix-bricked-printers-after-faulty-firmware-update/)

[SiliconWizard]

Nice!!

[mapleLC]

No doubt, thanks to Brexit, this will pass the UK by.  It's a gift that just keeps on giving... 

Ya.  Self determination sucks when someone can do it for you.

[mapleLC]

We're not far from the point where we can open source acquire parts + 3D print a paper printer.

These companies can go fuck themselves.

[bitwelder]

Has been already detected a surge of HP printers "for parts" on the various fleabay sites?

[xrunner]

Judge denies HP's plea to throw out all-in-one printer lockdown lawsuit

AiO devices won't scan or fax without ink, and plaintiffs say IT giant illegally withheld that info from buyers

https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/11/judge_denies_hps_request_to/

[m k]

Somebody should make a fake head the resets during every power-up.

[Kim Christensen]

Good thing that my HP is so old that it no longer gets updates...   

[MrMobodies]

Sounds more like MEDDLING to me:
Title:Re: HP printer disaster MEDDLING continues

Third party cartridges... won't print
HP+ or "E" series: No broadband/no service... won't print

HP's move to disable devices that were low on ink was intentional

I wonder what next:
Your firmware or "app" is out of date... won't print.

[MikeK]

Has been already detected a surge of HP printers "for parts" on the various fleabay sites?

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding this, but end users will never be able to produce their own paper printer.  How will they produce the precisely ground guide rails?...Or the selenium coated drum?

I wish printer manufacturers would stick to what they're good at...mass producing a designed product.  They're trying to do what almost killed Apple: owning all aspects of the product and forcing us go through them for everything.  In the early days, PC's boomed far beyond Macs, because PC's were open architecture and Mac's weren't.

It's also stupid and wasteful (and harmful to the consumers, who are the ones driving the market anyway!) to not standardize toner cartridges.  There doesn't have to be one standard, but there could be a small number to handle the small number of printer configurations (size of printer, paper loading orientation, etc.).

[SiliconWizard]

It's annoying for customers, but far from stupid. Consumables are what makes money. They don't make any money on the printer hardware itself. It's been like that for at least 2 decades.
They may if customers were willing to buy more expensive gear, but most of they are not. And even so, you can only sell so many printers a year, after that the market gets saturated. Unfortunately we're not in the 80's anymore.

I don't really have a solution for that.

[Stray Electron]

No doubt, thanks to Brexit, this will pass the UK by.  It's a gift that just keeps on giving... 

    You can always move to France.   

[schmitt trigger]

Exactly!
Either one has cheap printers and expensive toner, or expensive printers and cheap toner.

One can’t have both cheap printers and toners simultaneously.

My personal solution, which obviously cannot apply to everyone: Print as little actual pages as possible.
I own some rental properties. I used to send a lot of paperwork to tenants. Now everything is via e-mail, and I keep a file copy.
The Only exception are eviction notifications. Which in the past 45 unit-years I have had to serve only two.

[xrunner]

Exactly!
Either one has cheap printers and expensive toner, or expensive printers and cheap toner.

One can’t have both cheap printers and toners simultaneously.

Let's flesh that idea out a little though ...

I do 3D printing as others here do. I don't see the same antics going on in that sector. For example for the the filament printers - they are  are pretty cheap and work reasonably well. The printing supplies (the filament) are also pretty inexpensive. The printers do not require that you buy their brand of filament in order for the thing to operate - to make prints. Printers and supplies - both affordable and provide room for lots of players in the market sector. They seem to be able to make money selling printers and not digitally tying them to their brand of filament (the ink if you will).

I don't see why paper printing then has to be that way. Make a good printer and sell the thing. If you can't make money at that - then don't stay in the market.



The references to hp in my member profile refers to the test equipment company of old - not the present company!

[ozcar]

Either one has cheap printers and expensive toner, or expensive printers and cheap toner.

You can also have cheap printer, expensive toner, and incredibly expensive drum. But I'm looking at you Brother, not HP though.

[MikeK]

Consumables are what makes money. They don't make any money on the printer hardware itself.

This appears, to me, to be an assertion without evidence.  Businesses make money on whatever they can, and to the limit they are able.  If it were legal to sell poison directly to consumers, businesses would gladly do it.  Laundry detergent isn't expensive.  The manufacturers of clothes washers aren't making money off the consumables.  Printer consumables are falsely determined, because they don't reflect the true cost of the product.

It's been like that for at least 2 decades.

I hope you understand that this doesn't mean anything.  Things change.  Radios operated on valves for decades...Doesn't mean it had to stay that way.

...if customers were willing to buy more expensive gear, but most of they are not.

Customers will pay what the item costs.  If printer costs go up, customers will pay it if they want a printer.  Which is why there are anti-trust laws...To [help] prevent consumers from being screwed.  Those these are often poorly enforced.

[MrMobodies]

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printer-Setup-Software-Drivers/Done-with-HP-quot-This-printer-requires-use-of-an-hp-account/td-p/8465044?lightbox-message-images-8468929=320054iD490FC9F296848BB

Protivakid 30 Level 3
 08-24-2022 05:31 PM - edited ‎08-24-2022 08:19 PM

Product: 140we
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 (64-Bit)
Bought a HP LaserJet 140WE for my aging mother. The setup wanted me to link an HP account which shouldn't be needed so I skipped that. The printer worked fine a week, scanning, copying, printing, etc. until it spat out a page that said "This printer requires use of an hp account".

Now the printer will NOT function until I link an HP Account for it's online DRM. This means if her internet goes down, and she wants to do some work on her local network, she can't, it won't work unless she's online with an account. Why HP would FORCE this DRM is beyond me but they did. I even installed with the Full Offline Driver package but it makes no difference, the printer forces you down this path.

I work IT and have recommended ONLY HP printers for 15+ years. I guess this stops today as I can't bring myself or others to submit to this. Even Windows 11 still allows you to use it with only a local offline account. A printer should NOT need internet to function. They worked offline in offices for decades. Unless someone has a bypass, the printer will be going right back to Staples  for a Cannon or a Brother. This post was mostly a warning to other users.

‎08-29-2022 08:54 AM - edited ‎08-29-2022 08:55 AM

As Repairatrooper mentioned, I snapped a picture of the box before returning. Down below on the bottom left corner the small text does say internet required. I almost missed seeing this even yesterday when I was specifically looking for it. There's no way my 70yr old mother-in-law would have noticed that when I sent her to pickup the printer.

"Works efficiently" . What with no broadband or service to HP and third party ink cartridges? Inefficient and contradictory.

This HP+ printer requires the use of Original HP Toner for the life of the printer.
This HP+ printer also requires an HP account and ongoing connection to the internet. 

The ink is one thing but I find it worse putting the bottom statement in tiny writing about the requirements of internet and the service in order to print.

I think the bottom statement should have been the one ontop highlighted and in larger font.

I still have a HP 8620 which the updates are disabled since I heard about them backpeddling/reverting in 2016 when they tried this and since the cartridges are like over 2 times forced to use compatibles and no problems with it.


Joke: After buying our printer before using it you got to Kiss our ass first (locked down printer with genuine ink) then we will decide when you can scan and print or not (based on connectivity to HP at all times).

[CatalinaWOW]

I was sure I didn't have to worry about this with my circa 2002 printer.  But last week apparently a software update crept in and it no longer allows use of non-HP cartridges.  It doesn't brick, but refuses to print and requests that you check the cartridge.  Fortunately since I had a genuine cartridge on hand I lost little time to this, but these old cartridges are not widely stocked and far more expensive than non-official cartridges. 

It is unfortunate because I like the dual tray, duplexing, and other features of the printer.  It is not going to be around much longer.

[MikeK]

What is preventing the HP printers from working with non-HP cartridges?  Is it just a simple sensor that can be fooled?  I doubt they've spent money on an elaborate mechanism.

[Bud]

Likely an authentication chip like this one.

[madires]

Besides the profit maximization, a printer which requires internet access is a very bad idea security-wise. Security issues are regularly found in the network services of printers. Also, some security researches demonstrated several times how to exploit printers as gateways or proxies to gain further access to a network. In the corporate world no sane admin would allow printers to access the internet.

[AndyBeez]

I just installed one of these HP spy-jet printers at a family members house this weekend. Not my idea of a good device to let onto your LAN but, 99.9% of domestic HP customers are not IT guys, tech heads or members of the EEVBlog forum. So who would have a clue 

I suspect the always on internet connectivity is there for the DRM and the 'instant ink' service. Which my relation did not sign up for because they print on average one page a week. My understanding is the printer cartridges and firmware do some kind of public-private key (AES) exchange with the HP server which verifies the validity of the ink. Hence, no clones, refills or compatibles allowed. I'm sure Louis Rossmann has some rant about this? What algorithm is used to calculate how much their open-wallet business model uses is closed source. I'm sure there is someone at HP towers who thinks this concept is the best thing since Donald J. Trump met Stormy Daniels

Security wise: What I want from [UK] ISPs is for their routers to have a separate wireless IoT interface where devices such as this printer are jailed on their own subnet. So any risk of WiFi key sharing is on the IoT and not the main domestic LAN. Routers have a rudimentary DMZ, which was how network security was done in... 1995. I can do this using OpenWRT easy, but 99.9% of HP customers are not IT guys. Cyber security? I'm sure HP can sell you that too. Instantly.