HP printer disaster continues

[madires]

HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/hp-printers-computers-ink-cartridges-rivals/

HP is blocking third-party printer ink again: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/11/23635168/hp-printer-update-brick-third-party-ink-dynamic-security

But there are also good news. A new EU directive in the work will make HP's practice illegal (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2023-0201_EN.html), i.e. preventing the use of third party spare parts or consumables, or limiting functionality when third party parts are used.

[Haenk]

In other good news, France is hitting Apple for serial-number locking parts. I assume this will eventually lead to prohibiting vendor-locks at all.

[jc101]

No doubt, thanks to Brexit, this will pass the UK by.  It's a gift that just keeps on giving... 

[madires]

Bonus game for some OfficeJets:
- HP OfficeJet printers are bricking following a recent software update (https://www.engadget.com/hp-officejet-printers-are-bricking-following-a-recent-software-update-223559237.html)
- HP rushes to fix bricked printers after faulty firmware update (https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/hp-rushes-to-fix-bricked-printers-after-faulty-firmware-update/)

[SiliconWizard]

Nice!!

[mapleLC]

No doubt, thanks to Brexit, this will pass the UK by.  It's a gift that just keeps on giving... 

Ya.  Self determination sucks when someone can do it for you.

[mapleLC]

We're not far from the point where we can open source acquire parts + 3D print a paper printer.

These companies can go fuck themselves.

[bitwelder]

Has been already detected a surge of HP printers "for parts" on the various fleabay sites?

[xrunner]

Judge denies HP's plea to throw out all-in-one printer lockdown lawsuit

AiO devices won't scan or fax without ink, and plaintiffs say IT giant illegally withheld that info from buyers

https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/11/judge_denies_hps_request_to/

[m k]

Somebody should make a fake head the resets during every power-up.

[Kim Christensen]

Good thing that my HP is so old that it no longer gets updates...   

[MrMobodies]

Sounds more like MEDDLING to me:
Title:Re: HP printer disaster MEDDLING continues

Third party cartridges... won't print
HP+ or "E" series: No broadband/no service... won't print

HP's move to disable devices that were low on ink was intentional

I wonder what next:
Your firmware or "app" is out of date... won't print.

[MikeK]

Has been already detected a surge of HP printers "for parts" on the various fleabay sites?

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding this, but end users will never be able to produce their own paper printer.  How will they produce the precisely ground guide rails?...Or the selenium coated drum?

I wish printer manufacturers would stick to what they're good at...mass producing a designed product.  They're trying to do what almost killed Apple: owning all aspects of the product and forcing us go through them for everything.  In the early days, PC's boomed far beyond Macs, because PC's were open architecture and Mac's weren't.

It's also stupid and wasteful (and harmful to the consumers, who are the ones driving the market anyway!) to not standardize toner cartridges.  There doesn't have to be one standard, but there could be a small number to handle the small number of printer configurations (size of printer, paper loading orientation, etc.).

[SiliconWizard]

It's annoying for customers, but far from stupid. Consumables are what makes money. They don't make any money on the printer hardware itself. It's been like that for at least 2 decades.
They may if customers were willing to buy more expensive gear, but most of they are not. And even so, you can only sell so many printers a year, after that the market gets saturated. Unfortunately we're not in the 80's anymore.

I don't really have a solution for that.

[Stray Electron]

No doubt, thanks to Brexit, this will pass the UK by.  It's a gift that just keeps on giving... 

    You can always move to France.   

[schmitt trigger]

Exactly!
Either one has cheap printers and expensive toner, or expensive printers and cheap toner.

One can’t have both cheap printers and toners simultaneously.

My personal solution, which obviously cannot apply to everyone: Print as little actual pages as possible.
I own some rental properties. I used to send a lot of paperwork to tenants. Now everything is via e-mail, and I keep a file copy.
The Only exception are eviction notifications. Which in the past 45 unit-years I have had to serve only two.

[xrunner]

Exactly!
Either one has cheap printers and expensive toner, or expensive printers and cheap toner.

One can’t have both cheap printers and toners simultaneously.

Let's flesh that idea out a little though ...

I do 3D printing as others here do. I don't see the same antics going on in that sector. For example for the the filament printers - they are  are pretty cheap and work reasonably well. The printing supplies (the filament) are also pretty inexpensive. The printers do not require that you buy their brand of filament in order for the thing to operate - to make prints. Printers and supplies - both affordable and provide room for lots of players in the market sector. They seem to be able to make money selling printers and not digitally tying them to their brand of filament (the ink if you will).

I don't see why paper printing then has to be that way. Make a good printer and sell the thing. If you can't make money at that - then don't stay in the market.



The references to hp in my member profile refers to the test equipment company of old - not the present company!

[ozcar]

Either one has cheap printers and expensive toner, or expensive printers and cheap toner.

You can also have cheap printer, expensive toner, and incredibly expensive drum. But I'm looking at you Brother, not HP though.

[MikeK]

Consumables are what makes money. They don't make any money on the printer hardware itself.

This appears, to me, to be an assertion without evidence.  Businesses make money on whatever they can, and to the limit they are able.  If it were legal to sell poison directly to consumers, businesses would gladly do it.  Laundry detergent isn't expensive.  The manufacturers of clothes washers aren't making money off the consumables.  Printer consumables are falsely determined, because they don't reflect the true cost of the product.

It's been like that for at least 2 decades.

I hope you understand that this doesn't mean anything.  Things change.  Radios operated on valves for decades...Doesn't mean it had to stay that way.

...if customers were willing to buy more expensive gear, but most of they are not.

Customers will pay what the item costs.  If printer costs go up, customers will pay it if they want a printer.  Which is why there are anti-trust laws...To [help] prevent consumers from being screwed.  Those these are often poorly enforced.

[MrMobodies]

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printer-Setup-Software-Drivers/Done-with-HP-quot-This-printer-requires-use-of-an-hp-account/td-p/8465044?lightbox-message-images-8468929=320054iD490FC9F296848BB

Protivakid 30 Level 3
 08-24-2022 05:31 PM - edited ‎08-24-2022 08:19 PM

Product: 140we
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 (64-Bit)
Bought a HP LaserJet 140WE for my aging mother. The setup wanted me to link an HP account which shouldn't be needed so I skipped that. The printer worked fine a week, scanning, copying, printing, etc. until it spat out a page that said "This printer requires use of an hp account".

Now the printer will NOT function until I link an HP Account for it's online DRM. This means if her internet goes down, and she wants to do some work on her local network, she can't, it won't work unless she's online with an account. Why HP would FORCE this DRM is beyond me but they did. I even installed with the Full Offline Driver package but it makes no difference, the printer forces you down this path.

I work IT and have recommended ONLY HP printers for 15+ years. I guess this stops today as I can't bring myself or others to submit to this. Even Windows 11 still allows you to use it with only a local offline account. A printer should NOT need internet to function. They worked offline in offices for decades. Unless someone has a bypass, the printer will be going right back to Staples  for a Cannon or a Brother. This post was mostly a warning to other users.

‎08-29-2022 08:54 AM - edited ‎08-29-2022 08:55 AM

As Repairatrooper mentioned, I snapped a picture of the box before returning. Down below on the bottom left corner the small text does say internet required. I almost missed seeing this even yesterday when I was specifically looking for it. There's no way my 70yr old mother-in-law would have noticed that when I sent her to pickup the printer.

"Works efficiently" . What with no broadband or service to HP and third party ink cartridges? Inefficient and contradictory.

This HP+ printer requires the use of Original HP Toner for the life of the printer.
This HP+ printer also requires an HP account and ongoing connection to the internet. 

The ink is one thing but I find it worse putting the bottom statement in tiny writing about the requirements of internet and the service in order to print.

I think the bottom statement should have been the one ontop highlighted and in larger font.

I still have a HP 8620 which the updates are disabled since I heard about them backpeddling/reverting in 2016 when they tried this and since the cartridges are like over 2 times forced to use compatibles and no problems with it.


Joke: After buying our printer before using it you got to Kiss our ass first (locked down printer with genuine ink) then we will decide when you can scan and print or not (based on connectivity to HP at all times).

[CatalinaWOW]

I was sure I didn't have to worry about this with my circa 2002 printer.  But last week apparently a software update crept in and it no longer allows use of non-HP cartridges.  It doesn't brick, but refuses to print and requests that you check the cartridge.  Fortunately since I had a genuine cartridge on hand I lost little time to this, but these old cartridges are not widely stocked and far more expensive than non-official cartridges. 

It is unfortunate because I like the dual tray, duplexing, and other features of the printer.  It is not going to be around much longer.

[MikeK]

What is preventing the HP printers from working with non-HP cartridges?  Is it just a simple sensor that can be fooled?  I doubt they've spent money on an elaborate mechanism.

[Bud]

Likely an authentication chip like this one.

[madires]

Besides the profit maximization, a printer which requires internet access is a very bad idea security-wise. Security issues are regularly found in the network services of printers. Also, some security researches demonstrated several times how to exploit printers as gateways or proxies to gain further access to a network. In the corporate world no sane admin would allow printers to access the internet.

[AndyBeez]

I just installed one of these HP spy-jet printers at a family members house this weekend. Not my idea of a good device to let onto your LAN but, 99.9% of domestic HP customers are not IT guys, tech heads or members of the EEVBlog forum. So who would have a clue 

I suspect the always on internet connectivity is there for the DRM and the 'instant ink' service. Which my relation did not sign up for because they print on average one page a week. My understanding is the printer cartridges and firmware do some kind of public-private key (AES) exchange with the HP server which verifies the validity of the ink. Hence, no clones, refills or compatibles allowed. I'm sure Louis Rossmann has some rant about this? What algorithm is used to calculate how much their open-wallet business model uses is closed source. I'm sure there is someone at HP towers who thinks this concept is the best thing since Donald J. Trump met Stormy Daniels

Security wise: What I want from [UK] ISPs is for their routers to have a separate wireless IoT interface where devices such as this printer are jailed on their own subnet. So any risk of WiFi key sharing is on the IoT and not the main domestic LAN. Routers have a rudimentary DMZ, which was how network security was done in... 1995. I can do this using OpenWRT easy, but 99.9% of HP customers are not IT guys. Cyber security? I'm sure HP can sell you that too. Instantly.

[MrMobodies]

Besides the profit maximization, a printer which requires internet access is a very bad * STUPID idea ....

Computer: Document -> application -> print driver -> lan -> printer * -> lan -> broadband/internet -> hp services -> back to printer.

Getting permission to use your appliance first and then the parts are checked over for every print.

Just noticed John Lewis promoting this bullshit on their website:
https://www.johnlewis.com/content/hp-plus-smart-printing

SMART PRINTER (that doesn't print without a connection to HP... stupid.)
READY WHEN YOU ARE 
A cloud-connected HP⁺ printer is smarter (because it IS smarter NEVERMIND HOW none of your business how it works... it is smarter than you stupid consumers will ever be and more human than you and has feelings that upset it if you use third party cartridges) —it keeps itself up to date, secure, and ready to print from virtually anywhere at any time. ¹ ⁶ ⁷

What if the broadband is not ready?
Joke: HP+ printer is human and can think for itself and for all of you.

¹ Ready when you are: Improved printer connectivity  utilizing Smart Driver and Print/Scan Doctor technology  in the HP⁺ system, *versus HP consumer printers without HP⁺.

* A printer without HP+: Plug in cable, install driver and print. No stupid app, no account, no sign in, no broadband, no dependency from HP.

HP+ is the smarter printing system * that thinks ahead (UTTER BULLSHIT) so your printer is ready when you are1 (what if no broadband), more secure (for them that you don't use 3rd part ink cartridges), more productive, and more sustainable than ever. (Look at us we're green and will save the planet)

Choose HP+ and get 6 months of Instant Ink5 and one extra year of HP warranty.12*

*Choose to activate HP+ at printer set up. Requires ongoing internet connection (cancels out "ready when you are"), set up of an HP account and use of only Original HP Ink or Toner for the life of the printer.

* The only "intelligence" is what they set and have it do.

So they try and make it look "intelligent" and the customer stupid into buying it with the marketing materials and all those buzzwords that it does this and that and saves the planet and forests.

Buzzworld bullshit: Driver and Print Scan Doctor technology, cloud-connected, SMART PRINTER, smarter, HP+, SMART APP, intelligent.

[EggertEnjoyer123]

It's sad how HP went from putting out good quality test equipment which lasts for 50 years to producing garbage like this.

[Kim Christensen]

The choice is pretty simple:

[MrMobodies]

More like HP-.

HP+: Help save the planet, help save the trees but kiss our ass first then we decide when you can print.

[ozcar]

Not new for them to make wrong or exaggerated claims about intelligence though.

Long ago, I bought a HP 4L printer. It was so long ago that I can say that I was still using it 20 years later (did have to repair it a couple of times, but no real complaints in that regard).

However it had a single button on it that you could press, and the promise was that it was so intelligent, that one button was sufficient, and that it would be able to work out exactly why you were pressing the button.

One day soon after I got it, Windows went crazy and the printer was spewing out page after page of rubbish. I desperately tried to stop it by pressing the magic button, short press, long press, double press, you name it, but no, it just carried on regardless. Eventually I had to pull the paper tray out to give myself a chance to speak severely to Windows.

[MrMobodies]

However it had a single button on it that you could press, and the promise was that it was so intelligent, that one button was sufficient, and that it would be able to work out exactly why you were pressing the button.

Reduce communication by removing LEDS and buttons and compensate the lack of it by calling it intelligent in the marketing materials.

One day soon after I got it, Windows went crazy and the printer was spewing out page after page of rubbish. I desperately tried to stop it by pressing the magic button, short press, long press, double press, you name it, but no, it just carried on regardless. Eventually I had to pull the paper tray out to give myself a chance to speak severely to Windows.

Reminds me of the stupid lights floodlights (low power rubbish) that dominated the shelves 20 years ago that lacked dedicated controls but had to pulse the POWER switch on and off to set the controls which reminded me a bit like morse code.

[Hogwild]

I was sure I didn't have to worry about this with my circa 2002 printer.  But last week apparently a software update crept in and it no longer allows use of non-HP cartridges.  It doesn't brick, but refuses to print and requests that you check the cartridge.  Fortunately since I had a genuine cartridge on hand I lost little time to this, but these old cartridges are not widely stocked and far more expensive than non-official cartridges. 

It is unfortunate because I like the dual tray, duplexing, and other features of the printer.  It is not going to be around much longer.

What model? Updates don't just creep in. The printer either has to have a network connection to the Internet to download a firmware update (does yours?) Or the PC downloaded a driver update with that (mal)functionality itself and installed it.

The first thing is preventable. The second is a little harder to prevent. Did you try checking Windows update to see if any drivers/software for the printer changed since these changes occurred?


BTW, this is not the first time HP has pulled this sh*t. They did it years ago. They got severely fined by the US Government, swore they'd never do it again and here were are.

Also, this is not unique to HP (as much as I hate them). Epson did it recently as well.

[MrMobodies]

What model? Updates don't just creep in. The printer either has to have a network connection to the Internet to download a firmware update (does yours?) Or the PC downloaded a driver update with that (mal)functionality itself and installed it.

The first thing is preventable. The second is a little harder to prevent. Did you try checking Windows update to see if any drivers/software for the printer changed since these changes occurred?

Speaking of which in another thread about background driver updates that I forgot to turn off:

There is this one as well:

Device installation settings.
Do you want to automatically download manufacturers' apps and customs icons that are available for your devices?
No (your device might not work as expected)

[CatalinaWOW]

The printer is an Officejet 7310xi

And you are right, updates don't just creep in.  The computer driving this printer is ethernet connected and I have allowed updates, which have generally been beneficial in the past.  Issues with pulling paper from the second bin, and improper page scaling under certain conditions were well appreciated corrections.

The specific behavior that was introduced was a refusal to print with message to check printer cartridge.  The printer had been working normally.  Replacing the clone cartridge with a genuine HP allowed it to work normally.  I re-inserted the clone cartridge and the issue returned.   There remains one other possibility that does not involve malfeasance on HPs part.  This printer is lightly used and it is possible that some defect developed in the clone cartridge that was detected by the driver software.  I have other clone cartridges and will try one at some point to test this theory.  I went with the quickest solution since the printer is a tool I use in my hobbies, not a hobby in its own right.

There is no painless solution to this that I can see.

[MrMobodies]

That seems a really old printer:
https://www.amazon.com/HP-OfficeJet-7310-All-in-One-Printer/dp/B00065Z2DY

HP OfficeJet 7310 All-in-One Printer

Is Discontinued By Manufacturer   No
Date First Available   September 27, 2004

https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/hp-officejet-7300-all-in-one-printer-series/391181/model/391190

Installing Your Printer Driver Using the Windows Built-in Solution

Install the HP Printer Driver and Software provided within your operating system.

Surprised they'd care for something that old and considering they are not releasing new drivers for it on their website or maybe they have through the Windows updates.

[thermistor-guy]

The printer is an Officejet 7310xi

And you are right, updates don't just creep in.  The computer driving this printer is ethernet connected and I have allowed updates, which have generally been beneficial in the past.  Issues with pulling paper from the second bin, and improper page scaling under certain conditions were well appreciated corrections.

My home printer is a Brother MFC-L3745CDW, ethernet-connected. It's a basic multi-function laser printer. Software and firmware updates are turned off, so that cloned cartridges from Ebay
continue to work (and  they work well). PCs using it run Win7, Win8, Win10, and Linux

Maybe check with Ebay sellers, to see if they have cartridges that work with your printer's firmware version?

[xrunner]

Marie Myers, chief financial officer at HP, basically admits they try to lock in customers for supplies.

HP exec says quiet part out loud when it comes to locking in print customers

https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/04/hp_printer_lockin/?td=rt-3a

[schmitt trigger]

HP’s new corporate motto:

“Institutionalizing extortion in the name of a greener(*) future”

(*) Dollar bill green.

[DimitriP]

Marie Myers, chief financial officer at HP, basically admits they try to lock in customers for supplies.

HP exec says quiet part out loud when it comes to locking in print customers

https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/04/hp_printer_lockin/?td=rt-3a

University of Queensland graduate , no less. (Not too far from Queensland Univerity of Technology).

On another note,  1.3M in cash, has to come from somewehere
https://www1.salary.com/Marie-Myers-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-HP-INC.html

[thermistor-guy]

The printer is an Officejet 7310xi

And you are right, updates don't just creep in. ...

Speaking of updates that just creep in: "HP printer software turns up uninvited on Windows systems"

https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/30/windows_hp_software_uninvited/

[coppercone2]

if the printer could print out a slice of pizza it might be worth going through all that BS. its god damn paper we are talking about

like I could condone this if the printer was a startrek food replicator. but its a printer. their acting like its on a whole nother level

just think about the fact that you go through ALL THIS to get a piece of paper. WTF

[madires]

More BS from HP: HP TV ads claim its printers are 'made to be less hated' (https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-reportedly-auto-installs-hp-smart-app-on-windows-10-and-11-without-permission/)

And they push the HP Smart app that started to appear uninvited on Windows 10/11 systems, also renaming installed printers (Microsoft confirms Smart App issue renaming everyone's printers to HP: https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/05/hp_smartapp_microsoft_issue/). HP and Microsoft in cohorts.

[linux-works]

dont let windows talk to or drive a printer.

linux can do that and there's no nagware, there.

my old samsung laser wants to spy and do bad things when its on windows.  when I drive it over the network (wired) with linux, there are no complaints or issues.  no updates or forced updates.

this is the way to treat untrusted hardware.  dont let it directly touch windows (etc).  linux can provide a network print service and it can talk to the printer.

one extra box.  a rasp pi.  no big deal really.  and you are way better off.  no more updates.  why update a printer?  it works or it does not.  updates never make printers better (the thought is laughable)

[thermistor-guy]

...
this is the way to treat untrusted hardware.  dont let it directly touch windows (etc).  linux can provide a network print service and it can talk to the printer.

one extra box.  a rasp pi.  no big deal really.  and you are way better off.  no more updates.  why update a printer?  it works or it does not.  updates never make printers better (the thought is laughable)

Yep. Networked printers, and rpis as networking Lego, for the win.
    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ah-i-see-youre-a-man-of-culture-as-well

[madires]

Louis Rossmann's response on the new HP ads:
 The Truth About HP: What Their Ads DON'T Tell You! - https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/the-truth-about-hp-what-their-ads-don't:7

[nali]

dont let windows talk to or drive a printer.

linux can do that and there's no nagware, there.

my old samsung laser wants to spy and do bad things when its on windows.  when I drive it over the network (wired) with linux, there are no complaints or issues.  no updates or forced updates.

this is the way to treat untrusted hardware.  dont let it directly touch windows (etc).  linux can provide a network print service and it can talk to the printer.

one extra box.  a rasp pi.  no big deal really.  and you are way better off.  no more updates.  why update a printer?  it works or it does not.  updates never make printers better (the thought is laughable)

Is there a Linux solution for networked scanning? I have a HP MFP28w which is a nice little box but I friggin hate HP Smart. I only use it infrequently so I tolerate it.

I do have a RPi sat idle most of the time; it's embedded in my 3D printer running Octoprint. But I tend to use the MFP as a scanner more than a printer so need more than just a printserver... the MFP is also WiFi connected, not USB, which doesn't make it any easier.

[madires]

SANE

[SiliconWizard]

Yes, I can use my printer scanner over the LAN on Linux. No problem.

[nali]

Yes, I can use my printer scanner over the LAN on Linux. No problem.

That's good. How do Windows clients access the scanning? Printing is easy enough with LPR, JetDirect, IPP etc but I'm not aware of a non-proprietry method for scanning. (Note we're talking about a headless RPi here so no X desktop to play with).

[floobydust]

"The HP Smart printer app was installing automatically on Windows 10 and Windows 11 PCs whether they had an HP printer installed or not, changing the names and icons of their connected printers and causing error messages.
Affected PCs will usually appear to have an HP LaserJet M101-M106 connected..."

"... Microsoft continues to look into the issue, but in an update posted yesterday, the company stated unambiguously that HP was not to blame."

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/12/hp-printer-app-is-installing-on-pcs-whether-they-have-hp-printers-or-not

Thanks asshole Microsoft for supporting HP tyranny at the operating-system level 

[madires]

That's good. How do Windows clients access the scanning? Printing is easy enough with LPR, JetDirect, IPP etc but I'm not aware of a non-proprietry method for scanning. (Note we're talking about a headless RPi here so no X desktop to play with).

Via SANE frontends for Windows, a SANE-to-TWAIN bridge, or a web based frontend.

[nali]

Via SANE frontends for Windows, a SANE-to-TWAIN bridge, or a web based frontend.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry I didn't catch the meaning of reply#46 as I'd never heard of it before.

[SiliconWizard]

Not to be confused with SANE, the Apple software floating-point library that was intially written for the 6502 and ported to the 68k. Used on all 68k Macs. For those who remember.

[ace1903]

Just to share my frustration caused by HP.
I own HP M1536DNF laser printer scanner and I was satisfied with it. Printed hundreds pages datasheets and occasionally scanned page or two.
After some windows updates scanner stopped working. I installed latest software from HP hoping that I will be able to scan page or two again.
But HP forces me to connect scanner with some cloud account in order scans to be accessible from anywhere.
I own small business and don't want my scanned document's to be related with my personal account.
Turnover is so small that buying domain and email isn't worth for several pages.
I know that issue is not related to hardware since I can copy pages perfectly and it is not network related since I can print without hassle. Even default windows scan document program works sometimes(but scan size is some letter format that is not used in where I live)
Also tried under linux but same problem again. Inexplicable scanner error.

Checked now this SANE software but it seems HP multifunctional devices aren't supported.
Lesson learned: Before purchasing next device to check what burden it brings with cloud and related spam notifications ....

[madires]

Your MFP is supported by an external backend (see http://www.sane-project.org/lists/sane-backends-external.html). The external backend needed is HPLIP (http://hplipopensource.com).

[Altair8800]

I have for many years thought that why doesn't some company take a reliable old 20 year old printer (in which the patents have been expired) and do some simple enhancements to make a standalone (as in doesn't need web or authorization) printer that uses low-cost ink or toner.

They can sell it at a slight premium or not.

If word got out it is reliable, easy to setup, the print quality good, and the ink or toner is relatively inexpensive they could sell millions...

[nali]

I have for many years thought that why doesn't some company take a reliable old 20 year old printer (in which the patents have been expired) and do some simple enhancements to make a standalone (as in doesn't need web or authorization) printer that uses low-cost ink or toner.

They can sell it at a slight premium or not.

If word got out it is reliable, easy to setup, the print quality good, and the ink or toner is relatively inexpensive they could sell millions...

That sort of thing used to happen many years ago when I was working in the sector way back in the 1990s. Many models were based on Canon or Xerox engines which conveniently exposed all controls needed to interface directly with it. So take a Canon-based HP LaserJet, unplug the HP card and replace with a nice high-speed interface and you have twice the printer you used to.

[magic]

I have for many years thought that why doesn't some company take a reliable old 20 year old printer (in which the patents have been expired) and do some simple enhancements to make a standalone (as in doesn't need web or authorization) printer that uses low-cost ink or toner.

Because the sheeple won't buy it and it isn't worth it to make such printer for you alone.
The sheeple will buy the HP which is sold at a loss and then pay through their noses for consumables.
Hence HP can't allow the sheeple to use 3rd party cartridges.

This is what happens when you combine free market and stupidity...

[CatalinaWOW]

For those needing to restore scanning function to MFPs, or just want a better scanning interface check out Vuescan.  Cheap lifetime licence and works well.  Supports most OS.

[SeanB]

Printing use small dumb HP printers, and for scanning SANE and some old scanners, that were tossed, because the one Canon would not work past Win98SE, and the HP because HP no longer supplied drivers past XP for it. But both work perfectly under Linux.

Now if only the developers could fix Glabel........ Workaround is to boot the old original Win7 home, and use Zebra Designer in there. About the only time i actually boot the original OS on that laptop, the last major use was to watch a webinar with the late Jerry Pournelle that was run with GotoMeeting. And with Larry Niven as the admin.....

[Nominal Animal]

Now if only the developers could fix Glabel........

Inkscape is free and open source vector graphics design program (similar to FreeHand or Illustrator) available for Windows, Mac OS, Linux, BSDs etc. that supports creating barcodes and QR codes: Extensions > Render > Barcode > ...

If there is a type of label you end up creating more than once, I recommend you create a template, including suitable guides and grids.  These are saved as part of the Inkscape SVG file (including templates), but are automatically dropped when printing or saving to PDF, plain SVG, etc.

About the only time i actually boot the original OS on that laptop, the last major use was to watch a webinar with the late Jerry Pournelle that was run with GotoMeeting. And with Larry Niven as the admin.....

Love their work.  Must've been an interesting webinar!

[MrMobodies]

Just to share my frustration caused by HP.
I own HP M1536DNF laser printer scanner and I was satisfied with it. Printed hundreds pages datasheets and occasionally scanned page or two.

After some windows updates scanner stopped working.

This would be the part where I'd get really pissed off and angry if it happened to me unless there is a technical reason such as a disconnection somewhere or hardware/power failure.

I installed latest software from HP hoping that I will be able to scan page or two again.
But HP forces me to connect scanner with some cloud account in order scans to be accessible from anywhere..

I'd go mad at that point and be telephoning them about reversing the problem they created.

I own small business and don't want my scanned document's to be related with my personal account.

Stupid idea to upload the documents just to download them again.

Lesson learned: Before purchasing next device to check what burden it brings with cloud and related spam notifications ....

Not even a HP+ or "e" series according to name:
HP M1536DNF

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-CE538A-LaserJet-M1536DNF-Printer/dp/B0044ENNN4

Nothing about a requirement in the listing.

Looks to me like harassment and bulling from HP through the Windows drivers in which case, I'd uninstall everything HP printer, in APPS and "Program and features" and install the basic driver from the website:
https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/hp-laserjet-pro-m1536-multifunction-printer-series/model/3974278

Basic driver package:
https://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL36682/Im-90303-3/hp_M1530_MFP_Basic_Solution_15189.exe

What might happen is that it gets updated again with the feature package and HP Smart if that is what caused it.

[madires]

Microsoft's answer to the HP Smart app:

KB5034510: Microsoft Printer Metadata Troubleshooter Tool - December 2023 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5034510-microsoft-printer-metadata-troubleshooter-tool-december-2023-b3197f24-fd25-430d-96d2-70f2044ce6a1)

[xrunner]

Interview on CNBC with hp CEO -

"Every time a customer buys a printer, it's an investment for us. We are investing in that customer, and if that customer doesn't print enough or doesn't use our supplies, it's a bad investment."

He actually says if you don't buy our supplies you are a bad customer. Even if you don't "print enough"

FF to about 3 minutes in -

[CatalinaWOW]

HPs efforts to make me a better customer have made me a non-customer.  What an evolution.  A great TE company became a great TE, Computer, Calculator and printer company.  Then a good computer and printer company.  Then a sort of ok computer and printer company.  And then a lousy company that doesn't want to earn business, but lock it in.

[floobydust]

Saw this email from HP on Reddit. It's hostile like a credit agency FFS.
When an executive doubles down on the profit making strategy, that isn't working... Needs to be sent to the gulag.

[Bud]

Wow. Just wow... Next step is they send the HP Cartridge Enforcement swat team to your door.

[floobydust]

One class-action (Barnert v. HP Inc.) was settled 02/2023. WTF Berkshire Hathaway Inc. is also a defendant. Like a leaking Duracell.
DTO Law Successfully Defends HP Inc. Against Nationwide Class Action on the "Instank Ink" subscription program. Slimy lawyers argued the limit to the state of purchase, instead of all 50 jurisdictions except New York.

There's a few class-action lawsuits against HP brewing for their printer tyranny and deception. Over bricking the printers, over data collection. Dec. 8, 2023 bricking lawsuit against HP

Sad that corporations can profiteer and overreach so easily.

[madires]

Interview on CNBC with hp CEO -

And they want to transform all their products into subscriptions, i.e. also PCs.

[Mechatrommer]

i'm sorry for all of you people, i thought HP printers are extinct - Epson Printer user...

[xrunner]

i'm sorry for all of you people, i thought HP printers are extinct - Epson Printer user...

Sorry for "all of you people" ? Don't feel sorry for me bro I got a Brother printer.

[madires]

Old HP printers without the fancy new features are still working fine. However, I won't get anything new from HP. If you're looking for a new SOHO laser printer check out Brother or Kyocera.

[CatalinaWOW]

Old HP printers without the fancy new features are still working fine. However, I won't get anything new from HP. If you're looking for a new SOHO laser printer check out Brother or Kyocera.

Don't know how old you are talking about.  My circa 2003 Officejet is a victim.  Which is really galling because in addition to the high price of the cartridges, they are obsolete and hard to find.  Epson burned me a couple of decades ago, but I am trying them again.  So far it is good.

[Mechatrommer]

the only worth salvaging are those dot matrix using ribbon for receipt printing in retails... the old "jet" technology forget about it... probably burnt/clogged jets/nozzles etc already.. or even more expensive/impossible to get the replacement parts.. even if you can,  their poor dpi is not worth my time...

[madires]

Don't know how old you are talking about.  My circa 2003 Officejet is a victim.  Which is really galling because in addition to the high price of the cartridges, they are obsolete and hard to find.

Wow! HP published updates for such old inkjet printers? AFAIK, no laser printers from that period are affected.

[CatalinaWOW]

Don't know how old you are talking about.  My circa 2003 Officejet is a victim.  Which is really galling because in addition to the high price of the cartridges, they are obsolete and hard to find.

Wow! HP published updates for such old inkjet printers? AFAIK, no laser printers from that period are effected.

They are apparently committed to their new business model.  They certainly haven't done functionality updates, bug fixes or driver updates for many years.

[xrunner]

They are apparently committed to their new business model.  They certainly haven't done functionality updates, bug fixes or driver updates for many years.

Where do people buy printers these days - Amazon or in-store (Walmart, Best Buy, etc). I really don't know myself. However, if in-store do the salespeople know what hp is doing, and if so I wonder if they tell customers "Hey hp is gonna make you buy their refills and this brand over here doesn't". On-line you can read the reviews and find out.

My point is over time I would think the word is going to get out about this and ruin their printer business. I hope so.

[rhodges]

Where do people buy printers these days -

I just bought a Brother printer (MFCL2717DW) from Amazon for just over $120 (?) It has been working very well for me, for shipping labels and regular pages. FWIW, I use FreeBSD and CUPS.

[Jeroen3]

Do they have AI printers yet?
I want the LLM to fix my spelling mistakes in the printer.

[voltsandjolts]

Do they have AI printers yet?
I want the LLM to fix my spelling mistakes in the printer.

If printers ever get AI, it'll be to work out whether you have genuine cartridges or not. It won't be for our benefit 

[Kjelt]

Laserprinter still works fine (knocking on wood).
Just replaced 4 toner cartridges with Amazon unknown brand no issues.
I really wanted to buy the HP toner but they are SIX!!!! times more expensive, what are they thinking.......
If they drop to twice the price of the no brand ones it would not be an issue for me, I would go for HP. They have to rethink their business case.

[JPortici]

Do they have AI printers yet?
I want the LLM to fix my spelling mistakes in the printer.

If printers ever get AI, it'll be to work out whether you have genuine cartridges or not. It won't be for our benefit 

Or to read your document in order to provide better ads for you... and of course to make sure you're not doing anything illegal

(but i think they do that already)

[magic]

It will print ads over your margins...

[Mechatrommer]

and nobody is going to buy it unless fools...

[xrunner]

On Amazon the HP DeskJet 2755e Wireless Color inkjet-printer, Print, scan, copy is $49.99

https://www.amazon.com/HP-DeskJet-2755e-Wireless-Printer/dp/B08XYP6BJV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2T21534Q3R8L&keywords=hp+printer&qid=1706097659&sprefix=hp+printer%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-1

The hp individual refills, XL size, are

Black $28.92

Color $29.92

Total $58.84

If you decided to buy the XL size individual refills at different times, just one purchase of each, you'd exceed the price of the printer by $8.85

The price of the non-XL size is less but it still creeps towards the price of the printer.

It makes me wonder what the actual cost of that printer is. There's way more technology, shipping, and assembly costs in that printer than a ink cartridge, plus it includes ink cartridges. But they sell it at just a little more than a black and a color refill.

My point is, I'm wondering if they could sell the printer at an even lower price, less than two XL carts. I'm wondering if they intentionally made the price just a bit more than the price of a black and color refill (XL), so people wouldn't just buy a new printer every time they need ink?

[madires]

Of course the price is deliberately set for that selling scheme. They sell the printer for less than it really costs while making huge profit with consumables (which also pays for the printer's discount). And they have to find the right balance to make customers buy consumables instead of a new printer. This scheme is nothing new, and it's known as razor and blades model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_and_blades_model).

[nali]

You think printers are bad - you should look at practices in the photocopier industry. EVERYTHING is about running costs and how much money dealers can screw end user for. It's normally wrapped up in a fully-inclusive service contract or lease so the user has no idea how much consumables would cost otherwise, and it's in their best interest to make things as complicated as possible to justify the engineer servicing.

[xrunner]

Whatever happened to the paperless office? 

[SiliconWizard]

Whatever happened to the paperless office? 

The fully-inclusive service contract is with Microsoft instead of with HP or Xerox. Not that much of a difference.

[MikeK]

Whatever happened to the paperless office? 

Same thing as the hydrogen economy.  It was PR, by people who *think* they can predict the future or have an agenda.  Solar panel sidewalks and roads, anyone? lol

[DimitriP]

Whatever happened to the paperless office? 

You misanderstood...they didn't mean your office, they meant they billing office.
Ask people with "paperless billing". Easy for billing and if an extra payment or the wrong amount (usually higher) makes it in there and you don't catch it, well, I guess it wasn't that important !!!  $1 "error" x , (insert number of customers) =  a few bucks ...no big deal    But that's a subject for another thread !