Is it now worth trying Windows 11?

[JohanH]

I switched to Linux on all home computers when Windows Vista came out. At work mixed environment (windows desktop mandatory, linux and windows servers). The only advantage I see with Win 11 over 10 is more features in WSL2.

[JPortici]

... the whole security concept centered around TPM(2) is a new take on getting to a secure system.

For who exactly?

The legislator? I don't know, we will be forced anyway by 2025 because by then no more security updates so probably best rip the bandaid off. Company is looking into replacing my current PC. Man how subsidized is windows 11... The laptop litterally doubles in price if you select a different OS in the configurator.

Not going to move to linux. PCB suite doesn't support it natively (yet). Devtools running hicky and microchip hasn't really done an update release cycle this year, which alternatively worries me and makes me believe there is going to be a massive core update that "will solve everything once and for all (tm)"

aaaaand i'm still stuck with VB6 for a huge piece of legacy software i have no inclination, time, funds, authorization to move to anything else

what else... oh yeah, App dev tools are windows only, too. And customers will use windows anyway

[nvmR]

If you absolutely must use it, this is a lifesaver: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher
Gives you back the normal context menu.

[Ramols]

Just be aware that most of the games still do not work on windows 11. It is not fully optimized.

[Ranayna]

The first question regarding Windows 11 should be: Are you willing to create a Microsoft account to use with the computer?
Because, unless you do some jumping through hoops with unknown possible consequences, you cannot setup Windows 11 without a Microsoft account.
The next question is then: Can you accept the crippled desktop, or are you willing to install third party applications to fix Microsoft's screwup?

Yes, there are still some ways of avoiding the account. Yes, you can fix the desktop using third party apps.
But you should ask yourself: Are you willing to jump through every hoop that Microsoft dangles before your nose?

I am now serving the cliche: "How do you know someone is using Linux? They will tell you!"
I am on Linux for more than six months now. After some initial uncertainty and hiccups i do not miss Windows at the moment. I do not have set up dual-boot, i have not even set up a virtual machine yet. And the main thing i am doing on my machine is gaming, with relatively little hobbyist electronics stuff. I encountred only a very small number of games that do not work for me under Linux. A couple of these were already iffy on Windows 10.

Do gaming under Linux is generally not a real problem anymore, unless you want to play the most recent multiplayer titles that are using various anit-cheat mechanisms. The most invasive of these work only on Windows. But even then: some of these games are now compatible with Proton.
Non Steam Games might require a bit of manual configuration. Games on Steam work almost out of the box most of the time.

Gaming on Linux took some leaps and bounds in the last year, and i expect it to steadily improve during the next couple of years.
Non-gaming Windows applications only stand to profit from that as well. And again i expect mostly the invasive anti=piracy measures to really create problems.

My verdict: If you are willing to experiment (And Windows 11 seems to be just as much an experiment as Linux would be), try out Linux. If not, just stay on Windows 10 for the time being. There is no rush yet to move away from it.

[gmb42]

The first question regarding Windows 11 should be: Are you willing to create a Microsoft account to use with the computer?
Because, unless you do some jumping through hoops with unknown possible consequences, you cannot setup Windows 11 without a Microsoft account.

!00% incorrect.  My home HP Envy Win 11 22H2 laptop does not have an MS account.  The system was originally Win 10 which I upgraded to Win 11 when it was released and just recently to 22H2.  That's not to say that occasionally the system does ask for an MS account but I just cancel that request.

The next question is then: Can you accept the crippled desktop, or are you willing to install third party applications to fix Microsoft's screwup?

Obviously if you are unable to operate a Win 11 desktop, because you can only cope with a Win 10 or Win 7 version then you'll have to make some changes to bring back the desktop you can manage with.  However, in my experience (very dangerous words), even the most technically inept users cope with desktop changes once they have had the location of the half-dozen things they need to click on for the limited use they make explained to them.

[coromonadalix]

If you absolutely must use it, this is a lifesaver: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher
Gives you back the normal context menu.

yeah,  this one is helping me a lot to endure the windows 11 craziness,  the more i use W11  the more i hate it, they have done a good job to scrap   everything who was working fine in the menus


Even office as a small tendency to go that direction  for 2021  ....

[Ranayna]

The first question regarding Windows 11 should be: Are you willing to create a Microsoft account to use with the computer?
Because, unless you do some jumping through hoops with unknown possible consequences, you cannot setup Windows 11 without a Microsoft account.

!00% incorrect.  My home HP Envy Win 11 22H2 laptop does not have an MS account.  The system was originally Win 10 which I upgraded to Win 11 when it was released and just recently to 22H2.  That's not to say that occasionally the system does ask for an MS account but I just cancel that request.

I would consider having to do an upgrade of Windows 10 to get a Windows 11 without account requirement to be quite a big hoop to jump through.
Also it was already stated by MS that the option to upgrade will be a limited time offer.

However, in my experience (very dangerous words), even the most technically inept users cope with desktop changes once they have had the location of the half-dozen things they need to click on for the limited use they make explained to them.

In my experience technically inept users just take what they are given. They might bitch and moan, but often have no idea that other options might be better.
For my work machine, i would loose a lot of efficency with my work, should i be required to use a stock Windows 11 desktop. The taskbar locked to the bottom of the screen and the forced grouping of taskbar items are both just ridiculous.

So i have two quite distinct reasons to dislike Windows 11.
On my home machine, i just got fed up with jumping through Micosoft's hoops. I know that i could have done that, but i just did not want to anymore. The taskbar would not have been the major issue here.
On my work machine, where i do not have much control, i am very sceptical about the taskbar changes. The number of open windows i regularly require are much easier managed with a vertical ungrouped taskbar, so i hope i get the opportunity to install EplorerPatcher on my work machine when the inevitable update to Windows 11 is installed.

[DavidAlfa]

If you absolutely must use it, this is a lifesaver: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher
Gives you back the normal context menu.

The normal context menu can be set with a simple reg key:
https://pureinfotech.com/bring-back-classic-context-menu-windows-11/

However the explorer patcher enhances a lot of other crappy stuff. But it's not very stable, my explorer crashes pretty often, while navigating a folder or copying files...bang! Everything closes and opens again.
Or enters "thinking mode", greyed unresponsive window.

Overall it's acceptable. But by no means close to Win7 stability and performance.

I hope Ameliorated project makes a W11 version soon:
https://ameliorated.info/

[james_s]

Even office as a small tendency to go that direction  for 2021  ....

I still use Office 2003, it's crazy to realize it's almost 20 years old but it does absolutely everything I need Office to do, and it has a proper menu instead of that stupid ribbon.

[nctnico]

Even office as a small tendency to go that direction  for 2021  ....

I still use Office 2003, it's crazy to realize it's almost 20 years old but it does absolutely everything I need Office to do, and it has a proper menu instead of that stupid ribbon.

It is the last version that actually works OK to some degree. Try to create numbered headings with later versions of MS Word... it is broken! Even Wordperfect 5.1 could do that just fine. IMHO MS Word never got to the level of Wordperfect 5.1 . When working on documents with MS Word I still think back to how easy an operation was with Wordperfect and it must be about 25 years since I last used Wordperfect.

[SiliconWizard]

The next question is then: Can you accept the crippled desktop, or are you willing to install third party applications to fix Microsoft's screwup?

Obviously if you are unable to operate a Win 11 desktop, because you can only cope with a Win 10 or Win 7 version then you'll have to make some changes to bring back the desktop you can manage with.  However, in my experience (very dangerous words), even the most technically inept users cope with desktop changes once they have had the location of the half-dozen things they need to click on for the limited use they make explained to them.

Uh. You're turning things around here. Interesting.

The whole point is precisely that the Win 11 desktop is geared towards technically inept users and will annoy the heck out of power users, and not particularly because they can't adapt to changes, but because MS has removed features instead of adding more. It's just a lot less productive, and the context menus are just the tip of the iceberg. The fact many functionalities are not even user-configurable is also a debilitating trend that doesn't only plague Windows or MS products in general. Gnome has suffered from the same fate. Android as well. And the list goes on.

Sure there will be third-party stuff flourishing to get some users back to a certain level of usability, but this stuff is often questionably stable and there is no justifiable reason for requiring that on a decent OS. Beyond stabilit, you'll run into the same problem as with Gnome extensions - Windows updates could break your third-party additions at any point leaving you with nothing and hoping that the maintainer of the particular addition you're using is going to update it as well.

In that regard, Gnome extensions are a joke. Every Gnome update breaks almost all of them and they need updating as well. They have guaranteed absolutely no stability for extensions.


Anyway, just when we thought MS couldn't do worse, they proved they could.

[Karel]

The whole point is precisely that the Win 11 desktop is geared towards technically inept users and will annoy the heck out of power users,  ...

There's less reason for microsoft to pay attention to power users. Many are switching to Linux now.
Why do you think that microsoft embraced Linux? Because that's where the developers are going.
And by offering WSL(2) they hope to slowdown this movement...

[SiliconWizard]

The whole point is precisely that the Win 11 desktop is geared towards technically inept users and will annoy the heck out of power users,  ...

There's less reason for microsoft to pay attention to power users. Many are switching to Linux now.
Why do you think that microsoft embraced Linux? Because that's where the developers are going.
And by offering WSL(2) they hope to slowdown this movement...

That's certainly true. It's all a marketing matter. Absolutely.

Though, it's marketing. And marketing in general is not just about finding and adapting to existing markets. That part is even not really marketing, but just sales. Marketing is mostly all about *creating* and shaping markets. So, while power users are looking elsewhere indeed, MS has clearly largely contributed to shaping that trend rather than just adapt to it.

[Ranayna]

I think Microsoft is also relying too much on the telemetry data it gets from most Windows machines.
I think that was cited as one of the reasons to lock the taskbar to the bottom of the screen. "(virtually) no one places it somewhere else". If i remember correctly, according to telemetry data, less than 1% of users move the taskbar.

But who is most likely to block as much telemetry data as possible? Power users and companies. And who mostly is using advanced features? Power users and companies... 
I might have enabled telemetry. If i knew i could trust Microsoft. But time and time again, Microsoft has shown it cannot be trusted, which is also my main reason i do not want to use a Micorosft account directly attached to my Windows. I just cannot trust them.

[james_s]

I think Microsoft is also relying too much on the telemetry data it gets from most Windows machines.
I think that was cited as one of the reasons to lock the taskbar to the bottom of the screen. "(virtually) no one places it somewhere else". If i remember correctly, according to telemetry data, less than 1% of users move the taskbar.

But who is most likely to block as much telemetry data as possible? Power users and companies. And who mostly is using advanced features? Power users and companies... 
I might have enabled telemetry. If i knew i could trust Microsoft. But time and time again, Microsoft has shown it cannot be trusted, which is also my main reason i do not want to use a Micorosft account directly attached to my Windows. I just cannot trust them.

This, Also the fact that you have to already be running Win10/11 and have a Microsoft account to provide feedback, so they never hear the feedback from people like me who find the OS unacceptable and don't use it on our own machines. They have created a loop where they only listen to the casual users, most of which just use what's put in front of them and don't know any better.

[Karel]

Also the fact that you have to already be running Win10/11 and have a Microsoft account to provide feedback, so they never hear the feedback from people like me who find the OS unacceptable and don't use it on our own machines. They have created a loop where they only listen to the casual users, most of which just use what's put in front of them and don't know any better.

Could be, but I doubt it if they are that stupid. My guess is that they gave up the fight with Linux and now they
want to focus on the big group of casual users (gamers, housewives, officeworkers, schools) because that's the
group where the money is.

[gmb42]

The first question regarding Windows 11 should be: Are you willing to create a Microsoft account to use with the computer?
Because, unless you do some jumping through hoops with unknown possible consequences, you cannot setup Windows 11 without a Microsoft account.

!00% incorrect.  My home HP Envy Win 11 22H2 laptop does not have an MS account.  The system was originally Win 10 which I upgraded to Win 11 when it was released and just recently to 22H2.  That's not to say that occasionally the system does ask for an MS account but I just cancel that request.

I would consider having to do an upgrade of Windows 10 to get a Windows 11 without account requirement to be quite a big hoop to jump through.
Also it was already stated by MS that the option to upgrade will be a limited time offer.

I think you've misunderstood me, I was attempting to point out I've never required an MS account for that system (initially Win 10 and then upgraded to Win 11) and nor have I needed one on the clean installs of Win 11 I've done.

I haven't done a clean install of Win 11 22H2 (only upgrades) so can't comment if there's any new changes there.

I guess I should also point out all these systems used the Pro or Enterprise version of the client OS.  I have no experience of the "Home" edition.

[Ranayna]

I haven't done a clean install of Win 11 22H2 (only upgrades) so can't comment if there's any new changes there.

I guess I should also point out all these systems used the Pro or Enterprise version of the client OS.  I have no experience of the "Home" edition.

That's the big change with 22H2. Even on Pro editions, you need an MS Account to complete setup on a fresh install, if you do not have a domain controller to join the machine to during setup.
I guess MS did not totally want to piss off existing customers by bricking machines that were upgraded from earlier versions without the forced account so they don't enforce this

Yes, there are ways to circumvent the account, even on Home editions, and without a domain controller. Currently the workarounds can be as easy as trying to use an invalid account. But no one knows how long these workarounds will be available.

I would have paid for a Windows where i can skip MS account setup and fully disable telemetry. Even more than i paid for my last Windows 10 Pro license, which was 130 Euro.
But i cannot, since Enterprise and Education editions are not legally available for end users. You can only get them in volume licensing programs, and these prohibit resale of single licenses. So there is no way to get these outside of the grey market.

[rdl]

I'd love to know how much money they make off Windows 10/11 from all the data mining. Because I would have happily paid $100 or so per year for a guaranteed telemetry/ad free version of Windows 7 with continuing security updates.

[SiliconWizard]

I'd love to know how much money they make off Windows 10/11 from all the data mining. Because I would have happily paid $100 or so per year for a guaranteed telemetry/ad free version of Windows 7 with continuing security updates.

Yep. And I personally wouldn't have for $100 a year. I would have for a "normal", non-subscription license at a normal price. Something like $150-$200 for a license covering use until EOL.

Renting  schemes can go to hell.

[james_s]

Yes I'll pay for updates if and when I decide that the update offers something compelling. The reason that everyone is pushing the subscription model so hard is that software in general has matured to the point where most people aren't going to bother to upgrade very often.

[SiliconWizard]

Yes I'll pay for updates if and when I decide that the update offers something compelling. The reason that everyone is pushing the subscription model so hard is that software in general has matured to the point where most people aren't going to bother to upgrade very often.

There's that, and I think it also better matches the current way of developing software, which is, releasing something barely ok (rather than waiting to have something polished to release) and then providing a constant stream of updates to make up for it.

A customer buying a product expects to get something polished and working as marketed. Subscription schemes allow companies to do otherwise.

When you sell a product with a pay-once license, you better make sure it is good, otherwise fixing it after sales will cost you a fortune. If it's subscription-based, fixing it after sales actually makes you money.

[james_s]

That's another good reason for me to refuse to buy software in general, I'll use older polished versions or open source. If I'm willing to put up with half baked stuff that is in a constant state of flux I can get that for free, I don't need to subscribe.

[rdl]

After thinking about it, I probably wouldn't pay either. After all, the only Windows machine I still use is running non-registered, non-updated Windows 7 SP2.