keyboard for programmers, any recommendations?

[Bassman59]

The very great disadvantage of getting used to a customised layout is you can't use anyone else's computer. You'd have to carry your own KB with you everywhere you go.

I swap Left-Control and Caps-Lock for the obvious reason and that baffles everyone who sits down at any of my computers.

[AaronLee]

I still use the cursor keys on the numpad, and input numbers via the keys on the top row. If I have some task of inputting lots of numbers, then I have a layer on my keyboard where the numbers can be inputted via the numpad.

[PlainName]

Thanks. One of the problem with all these keyboards, particularly the expensive ones, is that you can't easily try them out. Dropping $355 to find the feel isn't quite right could get expensive very quickly.
 

[AaronLee]

Thanks. One of the problem with all these keyboards, particularly the expensive ones, is that you can't easily try them out. Dropping $355 to find the feel isn't quite right could get expensive very quickly.

Depending on where you're at, there may be keyboard enthusiasts which have a get-together where they bring their keyboards and you can try them out. Or join a forum for keyboard enthusiasts and ask if there's anyone nearby the has the keyboard(s) you're interested in and if you could meet up with them to try it out. Or buy the keyboard you think suits you best, and if you don't like it, try to resell it on Ebay or such, for which you'll still lose money, but not like losing the full amount.

In my opinion, for someone who types on their keyboard for a majority of each work day, and if the keyboard will last for a minimum of several years, if not decades, a few hundred dollars is cheap compared to lost productivity of a crappy keyboard. Most people don't see it that way though, and never consider how much money they're saving in productivity gains from using a great keyboard.

[peteru]

While I agree that a good keyboard is definitely a very worthy purchase, a good chair should come first. My typing speed and accuracy, as well as productivity levels, attention span and energy/fatigue levels are very obviously related to the chair under me.

Changing chairs has a larger impact for me than changing keyboards. (As long as it's not a laptop keyboard - nothing can improve those. Old Thinkpads probably had the most usable laptop keyboards, but even those were a poor experience when compared to a desktop keyboard.)

[lordium]

I switched to a mechanical keyboard (brown switches) simply because I tend to forget where my cup is, and usually it flies onto the keyboard. The older ones with plastic and conductive tracks inside always break immediately when in contact with liquids, but my new mechanical one has a pcb with soldermask etc on it which can handle it better. Yes I have spilled liquid in my mechanical keyboard, but I just take it apart and clean/dry it out and no problem. So even if a little more expensive, definitely worth it in the long run, and with most mechanical keyboards you can replace the switches if something happens to them.

[PlainName]

The older ones with plastic and conductive tracks inside always break immediately when in contact with liquids, but my new mechanical one has a pcb with soldermask etc on it which can handle it better.

That's another thing I like about the Dell: it has a trough under the keys so you can tip half a cup of coffee in there and it just comes out through two convenient drain holes, never going near a key switch or PCB.

[Howardlong]

Does that mean you use it as a numpad now? If so, what caused you to change?

Yes use it as a numpad now 100% of the time.

It was just a habit vs convenience thing. 30 odd years ago, there were still plenty of Model F and Model M keyboards around, so rather than having to be a polyglot, you naturally used what they had in common, so I used the numpad on the model M predominantly as a cursor pad in the same way as the Model F.

Now I also used to do vacation work as a kid in high street retail banks where we used to key in cheque (check) information using number pads, so I became pretty proficient in using number pads, so there was also reason to switch from cursor mode to numpad mode on a model M when there was a lot of numeric data entry stuff to do.

Once Model F keyboards went the way of the dodo, I gradually got used to the separate cursor keys and convenience of having them separated, and moved over to using the numpad 100%, but it did take some time, my muscle memory on the numpad's cursor keys was pretty ingrained, old habits die hard.

I'm by no means a touch typist, but I do need the comfort factor of having keys in the right place, and with the right symbols the right way up. I mentioned earlier that some RGB keyboards have their shifted and unshifted symbols switched, particularly the top row number keys. Worse are some of the keys to the right hand side of the main cluster on UK keyboards (and presumably the same applies on US keyboards), so shifting now has the opposite effect of what's written on the keys.

[Howardlong]

The very great disadvantage of getting used to a customised layout is you can't use anyone else's computer. You'd have to carry your own KB with you everywhere you go.

I swap Left-Control and Caps-Lock for the obvious reason and that baffles everyone who sits down at any of my computers.

About 25 years ago, I worked with a fella whose surname was Llewelyn. I swapped his L key top with another adjacent key once day, the look of confusion on his face when he tried to log in was priceless. What was more stunning was a new graduate we had in, who couldn't work out why pressing the L key gave a K. Same guy couldn't figure out why faxes he kept sending never arrived... he was putting the printed pages in upside down, and that had to be spelt out to him. Still, one chore he was excellent at which few enjoy was writing documentation.

[David Hess]

I swap Left-Control and Caps-Lock for the obvious reason and that baffles everyone who sits down at any of my computers.

I do also and have had the same experience when others use my keyboard or computer.  Some keyboards used to have a switch on the back for configuring this.

Another reason I like mechanical keyboards is that if necessary, I can take the keyboard apart and swap those keys by cutting the traces and soldering in jumper wires.

[PlainName]

I'm missing something: what's obvious about swapping caps-lock and left-control?

[SiliconWizard]

I'm missing something: what's obvious about swapping caps-lock and left-control?

I dunno. I guess he might find it easier to reach the caps-lock key at this position, and the rationale may be that he uses the caps-lock key much more often than the ctrl key? Just guessing though...

[David Hess]

I'm missing something: what's obvious about swapping caps-lock and left-control?

It puts the control key adjacent to the A key where God intended it.

[Bassman59]

I'm missing something: what's obvious about swapping caps-lock and left-control?

It puts the control key adjacent to the A key where God intended it.

Exactly.

[PlainName]

Ah! I thought you mean you switched the key caps rather than the signal.

[AaronLee]

While I agree that a good keyboard is definitely a very worthy purchase, a good chair should come first. My typing speed and accuracy, as well as productivity levels, attention span and energy/fatigue levels are very obviously related to the chair under me.

Changing chairs has a larger impact for me than changing keyboards. (As long as it's not a laptop keyboard - nothing can improve those. Old Thinkpads probably had the most usable laptop keyboards, but even those were a poor experience when compared to a desktop keyboard.)

I totally agree about the laptop keyboards. I really despise them. Even more so, the touchpads that are in front of the keyboard that inevitably registers zillions of unwanted cursor movements because I can't avoid the palms of my hand brushing over it. And as with you, the old Thinkpads, with the red trackpoints were the most usable, and I still have mine that I take for situations where a laptop is necessary, such as for meetings in a conference room.

For chairs, I'm usually fine for at least 30 minutes to an hour typing on a crappy chair. If it's going to be for a long time though, then a chair will definitely affect my work. A crappy keyboard though has an immediate detrimental affect on my throughput, but as the day goes by it likely gets better as I learn to adjust more to it. Though with either a crappy chair or keyboard, I'm likely to get frustrated eventually and then my productivity really drops like a rock. A good monitor is another thing that's mandatory for me. Trying to squint at code on a monitor that's just barely readable is no fun at all. For a mouse, I can deal with all sorts of them without much issue, provided they're reliable and don't register false clicks or such. I tend to use keyboard shortcuts for almost everything. Even for internet browsing I have a browser extension (Vimium) so I can scroll with the keyboard and hit a key to highlight a code for all the links on a page and just hit the key for that code to open the desired link, rather than take my hands off the keyboard to click on the mouse.

So yeah, a great chair that makes me comfortable and keep a good posture / position, a great keyboard that's my lifeline to inputting/controlling everything, and a great monitor to see the results. Those are the three big requirements for me, plus a good environment that allows me to concentrate.

[Bassman59]

Ah! I thought you mean you switched the key caps rather than the signal.

I meant that when I press the Caps Lock key the computer recognizes that the left Control key was pressed. And when I press the left Control key the computer recognizes a Caps Lock press. Unfortunately I can't swap the caps!

On Windows there's a registry thing to do this. On a Mac you can go into the Keyboard Preferences, and in the Keyboard tab there's a "Modifier Keys" button that has a little table for selecting the mapping.

[tszaboo]

I might be late for this thread, but I can give you a relatively unknown brand, that makes excellent keyboards, and they are without bells and whistles, just a MX style switch KB, with light color keycaps.

This one is the Akko 3108 silent. Every single key where it supposed to be.

This is what I use at home, replaced the Logitech somethingrather mechanical one. Choice from 3 switch types, silent, tactile and clicky. It has TKL and 60% layouts available. And some of them with BT (Which I haven't had experience with). There are also some with artisan keys, if that's your thing. Price is also reasonable.

Or last resort: I also designed keyboards for fun. It usually comes with a ATMEGA32 and you can program it the way you want it.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
Or last resort: I also designed keyboards for fun. It usually comes with a ATMEGA32 and you can program it the way you want it.

That sounds rather challenging - what do you use for keys etc?  3D printing?

[tszaboo]

[...]
Or last resort: I also designed keyboards for fun. It usually comes with a ATMEGA32 and you can program it the way you want it.

That sounds rather challenging - what do you use for keys etc?  3D printing?

You can buy Cherry MX switches, or compatible ones, at around 0.4 USD/EA. All the MX style switches accept compatible keycaps, and there is a large selection for just keycaps, with all the colors of the rainbow. They are usually mounted into 1.5mm thick laser cut aluminium or steel plate, I replaced this with a regular PCB with the appropriate size holes. And then they are just soldered into the PCB. You also need so-called stabilizers, which are for the larger keys, these are small plastic helpers with a bent metal piece in between.
There is a whole movement of people designing and building keyboards. Due to mechanical keyboard enthusiast, all the custom parts are available. The only part lacking standardization or ease of access is the case. Open source software called QMK Firmware is running on it.

This is one KB that I made as a commission for someone, they came up with the layout:
https://github.com/tszaboo/Ortho4Exent

[bd139]

Can’t believe I missed this one.

I’m using a Durgod K320 TKL with Cherry MX silent red keys. Best keyboard I have ever owned.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Durgod-Taurus-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Cream-White/dp/B08MDFTF49/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=HF18S6VBBSCD&dchild=1&keywords=durgod%2Bk320&qid=1630506452&sprefix=durgod%2Bk320&sr=8-1&th=1&psc=1

Earlier comments about chairs are spot on. Spend on a chair. I got a second hand Herman Miller Aeron for 200 quid here which was probably the best investment I’ve made in about a decade on anything.

[rstofer]

At the office I have a Unicomp. At home I have a Das Keyboard. Both are excellent if you actually type for a living.

I have a couple of the Unicomp keyboards and they are excellent but they are NOT multi-media keyboards.  They simply replicate the PC-AT keyboard.  You can type really fast on the Unicomp.

Like these:

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/NEW_M

[PlainName]

3DConnexion just sent me blurb on their new keyboard. I was kind of looking forward to this, not least because they bothered to ask their users what it should be like, and they have a reasonably good reputation from the space mouse, etc.

https://3dconnexion.com/uk/product/keyboard-pro-with-numpad/

As it turns out, you couldn't pay me enough to use it. The unremovable wrist wrest is a waste of space and means you can't get the keyboard to the front of your desk (and that's apart from being non-ergonomic). It can be tilted by a massive 4 degrees (hold me in case I faint). But the keys are terrible - flat laptop keys, no curved profile.

Fortunately, it's no doubt priced way out of my budget.

[Howardlong]

As it turns out, you couldn't pay me enough to use it. The unremovable wrist wrest is a waste of space and means you can't get the keyboard to the front of your desk (and that's apart from being non-ergonomic). It can be tilted by a massive 4 degrees (hold me in case I faint). But the keys are terrible - flat laptop keys, no curved profile.

The wrist rest thing makes it a no-no for me too, it won't fit into an under desk keyboard drawer. They should have made it detachable.

[bson]

Never a numeric keypad for me, ever.  With the keyboard centered in front of me and my index fingers on the home row F and J keys, a full-size PC keyboard pushes the mouse out so far it's uncomfortable to use.  If so much software didn't rely on arrow keys I would use keyboards without that whole section as well, to reduce the distance to the mouse even further.  But it's not as disqualifyingly bad as with a numeric pad.