Latest Win 7 updates fuck-up

[SiliconWizard]

Just updated my Win 7 workstation with the latest august updates today.

Don't know if I'm the only one: this was kind of a fuck-up. Made the OS freeze (it was not a "hard" freeze, mouse could still be moved around, but GUI was completely unresponsive, and even CTRL-ADD-DEL didn't do anything). First time I had seen that in years. After a few minutes waiting like this, the only option was to hard reset the machine (there was no sign of SSD activity nor sign of significant CPU use given the fans were running at the minimum). Fortunately, after the hard reset, Windows rebooted OK, but then rebooted by itself several times to complete the updates. It was kind of freaky because it started looking like an infinite loop, but it finally booted to an operating state.

Am I the only one who encountered this issue?

[edy]

Isn't Win 7 end of life coming up soon? Maybe Microsoft is nudging us into upgrading to Win 10, "the last operating system we will ever use". 

[SiliconWizard]

It's ending in a few months, and I still update it monthly. Never had a single problem with that before. But I know quite a few people that are still using Win 7 have decided to stop updating altogether for a while now. So I'm wondering whether I'm one of the few that still update.

It's not like Win 10 updates don't fuck up on a regular basis as well anyway... talk about an incentive to upgrade. That said, they are probably assigning less and less ressources to the Win 7 support these days.

Last time I remember some kind of OS freeze like this is when they were force-downloading Win 10 upgrade files behing your back though. At some point you could not shut down your Win 7 computer while it was downloading those files, which could take ages. A bit annoying.

[james_s]

Meanwhile over here my Win7 laptop was last updated almost 4 years ago and it's humming right along with no problems whatsoever. Is there even a discernible difference between these broken updates and the potential issues they are meant to prevent?

I mean look at the situation objectively. We know that Microsoft has no QA anymore, and many of the updates for their flagship OS have been unmitigated disasters, they are desperate to bury the still very popular Win7. Best optimistic case the latest updates for Win7 are essentially untested, pessimistic case they are deliberately engineered to make the OS flaky.

[BrianHG]

I stopped updating Win7 5 months ago.  No problems here...

[Bud]

But I know quite a few people that are still using Win 7 have decided to stop updating altogether for a while now.

Hello bro ! The pivot point was the FTDI kill driver update. Guess what, I am still alive and could not be happier.

[BrianHG]

Just updated my Win 7 workstation with the latest august updates today.

Don't know if I'm the only one: this was kind of a fuck-up. Made the OS freeze (it was not a "hard" freeze, mouse could still be moved around, but GUI was completely unresponsive, and even CTRL-ADD-DEL didn't do anything). First time I had seen that in years. After a few minutes waiting like this, the only option was to hard reset the machine (there was no sign of SSD activity nor sign of significant CPU use given the fans were running at the minimum). Fortunately, after the hard reset, Windows rebooted OK, but then rebooted by itself several times to complete the updates. It was kind of freaky because it started looking like an infinite loop, but it finally booted to an operating state.

Am I the only one who encountered this issue?

  Wahhh Wahhh Waaaaaahhhhhh   FAIL:  I warned you and you ignored me, read here:
[Me WARNING EVERYONE] Post #77 : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569797/#msg2569797
[Mr Scram] Post #78 : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569806/#msg2569806
[You!!!!!] Post #79 : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569809/#msg2569809

[edy]

Yes that's funny, they actually do recommend you check out a new PC:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-end-of-life-support-information?OCID=win7_app_omc_win

Step 1. Back up your files and photos
Save your personal files and photos to OneDrive or to an external hard drive. Follow this link to learn all the different ways to move your files.

Step 2. Check out the latest PCs
Not only are new modern PCs fast (thanks to solid state drives) and durable with batteries that last longer, the average price for a great PC is considerably less than it was 5-10 years ago.

Step 3. Get tips on Windows 10
We think you’ll feel right at home on a new PC with Windows 10, but if you have any questions or want to learn more, we have lots of tips and tutorials available.

So this is because they want you to be on one of the latest machines that has BIOS-integrated authentication licensing agreement with Microsoft or it has the boot EUFI/BIOS locked down so much that you will have a hard time trying to install anything else on it. Or because they get a cut of every PC shipped through OEM licensing, or simply because they want users to experience the best possible speed and functionality out of their new Windows installation (since there is no guarantee they will support or continue to work well with old hardware).

I have had increasingly difficult times trying to install Linux on some of the newer machines. The BIOS just does it's darn best not to let anything else boot and I'm sure some of you have experiences where the manufacturer has locked down the hardware so far down the rabbit hole with Microsoft that it is almost impossible to have it boot anything else. I am sure there are some negotiations on volume licensing agreements between Microsoft and these OEM's where they promise to make sure the computer can run nothing but Microsoft for a better deal.

Yes yes I know it's all for security reasons and to protect us, right?

[thm_w]

This is not really unusual. You can try unplugging any USB hub or similar, but it may not be recoverable. Make sure your data is backed up I guess.

Wahhh Wahhh Waaaaaahhhhhh   FAIL:  I warned you and you ignored me, read here:
[Me WARNING EVERYONE] Post #77 : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569797/#msg2569797
[Mr Scram] Post #78 : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569806/#msg2569806
[You!!!!!] Post #79 : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-7-vs-windows-10/msg2569809/#msg2569809

Its reasonable to ignore your conspiracy theories.
Yeah for sure people should upgrade to 10 a long time ago, but XP was receiving updates until April of this year and none of them intentionally nuke the machine.

[james_s]

I don't really think Microsoft is intentionally trying to nuke Win7 machines, I think they just don't really care. I mean they don't properly test their Win10 updates, would you expect them to test the Win7 updates? Most of the testing Win10 gets is from customers, Win7 has no such insider program. Any updates it gets are going to be half assed, untested, and if it breaks your machine Microsoft is just going to tell you to get Win10. I would install sketchy undocumented software from China before I would install an update from Microsoft on my Win7 boxes.

[MrMobodies]

I stopped the automatic updates many years ago due to so many problems.

One company I went in all had a loop, bluescreens, reset, system restore (bootup) fix and back to bluescreen.

That one turned out to be Nvidia discontinuing support for a graphics controller in some later driver that was pushed though that WHQL but didn't remove the information. It was optional but it got install again at a later date on all four.


In another company there was an update reboot loop and later on an Office update through the automatic updates it broke Office 2010 (the whole package) on two and some explorer stuff.
That was it, I disable updates and installed them manually and not many issues after that.

I didn't have any problems for about 7 years so far.
If I need some hotfix I go to that catalogue.

[SiliconWizard]

I've never been on automatic updates ever since I've been using Windows. That's one of the first things I would disable when installing Windows. Have always at least looked at each update description before installing it.

Problem now is that MS decided to bundle most updates as rollup (so you don't have individual access to them) on Win 7 for I don't remember how long - probably over a year or two now... (they also now release a "preview" update bundle early - which is only marked as optional - haven't ever installed those preview updates, but they certainly look like MS is considering their users as beta testers, which is pretty much what they do with Win 10 as well IMO.)

Anyway, I haven't had any problem with the way I was updating so far. But I'll be definitely more and more cautious as we get near the end of support.
I don't think MS would benefit from any large-scale problem with Windows 7. Win 7 still has a significant market share, and that would just ruin their reputation. I think they just put less and less ressources and effort on supporting it.

I launch full partition backups on a regular basis anyway, so that if anything fucks up really bad, my machines would be back to normal in a relatively short time.

[james_s]

Can their reputation be ruined further than it already has?

I used to trust the updates completely, never had an issue with them, then things happened and now I don't trust them at all, they behaved just like malware pushers.

[rdl]

Has any one tried this?

http://www.wsusoffline.net/

With support ending for Windows 7 before long, I was thinking it might be useful. I sort of started to last year, but didn't get far before getting side-tracked. Maybe it's time to give it a better look.

[soldar]

I don't really think Microsoft is intentionally trying to nuke Win7 machines, I think they just don't really care.

If they ever did MS stopped caring long time ago. Some weeks ago I posted about how WIN 10 was lying to users saying Registry backups were being made when in reality they weren't.  Now I can't find the post.

Martin Brinkmann at ghacks.net:

https://www.ghacks.net/2019/06/29/microsoft-explains-the-lack-of-registry-backups-in-windows-10/

We noticed back in October 2018 that Microsoft’s Windows 10 operating system was not creating Registry backups anymore.

The scheduled task to create the backups was still running and the run result indicated that the operation completed successfully, but Registry backups were not created anymore.

It turns out that this is a feature, not a bug, as Microsoft has posted a support document explaining the new behaviour and the reasoning behind it.

Starting in Windows 10, version 1803, Windows no longer automatically backs up the system registry to the RegBack folder. If you browse to to the \Windows\System32\config\RegBack folder in Windows Explorer, you will still see each registry hive, but each file is 0kb in size.

This change is by design, and is intended to help reduce the overall disk footprint size of Windows. To recover a system with a corrupt registry hive, Microsoft recommends that you use a system restore point.

This might come as a surprise to some, hence it seems prudent to highlight this change. In the support article, Microsoft lists methods to reenable registry backups.

[wavetrex]

Do you guys know about this ?
http://forum.oszone.net/thread-257198.html

It's an offline package of updates for Windows 7 based on the Enterprise Support, which needs to last much longer, even if consumer support has been discontinued.

I still have Win 7 on several older machines, and feel no need to update to 10 for any reason (which would be expensive as well today now that W10 is no longer offered as a free upgrade).

[thm_w]

I still have Win 7 on several older machines, and feel no need to update to 10 for any reason (which would be expensive as well today now that W10 is no longer offered as a free upgrade).

Its still free.

[Electro Detective]

I still have Win 7 on several older machines, and feel no need to update to 10 for any reason (which would be expensive as well today now that W10 is no longer offered as a free upgrade).

Its still free.

It's hard to flog a turkey at any price 

[james_s]

I still have Win 7 on several older machines, and feel no need to update to 10 for any reason (which would be expensive as well today now that W10 is no longer offered as a free upgrade).

Its still free.

It has never been free. All along you have had to trade a valid license for a superior OS!

I'd love to be able to see what happened in an alternate universe where the upgrade offer was in place but without the tricks, coercion, and malware infection style pushing of the update. Given how much effort it required to avoid it, the fact that Win10 had not even reached 50% after a year of that is very telling. It only continues to rise because computers break down and/or become obsolete and consumers buying new ones have little choice.

[thm_w]

It has never been free. All along you have had to trade a valid license for a superior OS!

I'd love to be able to see what happened in an alternate universe where the upgrade offer was in place but without the tricks, coercion, and malware infection style pushing of the update. Given how much effort it required to avoid it, the fact that Win10 had not even reached 50% after a year of that is very telling. It only continues to rise because computers break down and/or become obsolete and consumers buying new ones have little choice.

It costs $0, literally the definition of free
Android is not so different: https://www.gsmarena.com/counterclockwise_newer_android_os_versions_no_longer_reach_majority-news-29554.php with a much shorter hardware lifecycle.

Lets try to stick to useful information here please.

[wraper]

I still have Win 7 on several older machines, and feel no need to update to 10 for any reason (which would be expensive as well today now that W10 is no longer offered as a free upgrade).

Its still free.

It has never been free. All along you have had to trade a valid license for a superior OS!

I'd love to be able to see what happened in an alternate universe where the upgrade offer was in place but without the tricks, coercion, and malware infection style pushing of the update. Given how much effort it required to avoid it, the fact that Win10 had not even reached 50% after a year of that is very telling. It only continues to rise because computers break down and/or become obsolete and consumers buying new ones have little choice.

It's free upgrade and you don't lose previous licence. You can install previous version if you don't like win 10 for some reason.
Also there is a way how to get it completely without any previous investment (without valid win 7/8 licence) if your conscience allows it. Without running any cracks on win 10, and digital license/activation permanently bound to hardware.

[james_s]

It has never been free. All along you have had to trade a valid license for a superior OS!

I'd love to be able to see what happened in an alternate universe where the upgrade offer was in place but without the tricks, coercion, and malware infection style pushing of the update. Given how much effort it required to avoid it, the fact that Win10 had not even reached 50% after a year of that is very telling. It only continues to rise because computers break down and/or become obsolete and consumers buying new ones have little choice.

It costs $0, literally the definition of free
Android is not so different: https://www.gsmarena.com/counterclockwise_newer_android_os_versions_no_longer_reach_majority-news-29554.php with a much shorter hardware lifecycle.

Lets try to stick to useful information here please.

So try to go get a copy of Win10 for $0 without trading in a bought and paid for Win7/8 license. You can't do it, you have to trade something that you paid for (usually rolled into the cost of the hardware) that has value so it is not free.

The reason that you don't have to pay anything above and beyond the value of your existing OS license is because if you did then far fewer people would have done so. The "upgrade" to Win10 is "free" because there's something in it for them, it is not just an advertising platform but a marketing platform and trojan horse to harvest your personal data and push paid products and services. There is a very big incentive for MS to bury Win7 and get everyone on their new marketing platform, to the point that they started spreading FUD about their own former OS's long before the end of support. 

[james_s]

It's free upgrade and you don't lose previous licence. You can install previous version if you don't like win 10 for some reason.
Also there is a way how to get it completely without any previous investment (without valid win 7/8 licence) if your conscience allows it. Without running any cracks on win 10, and digital license/activation permanently bound to hardware.

You absolutely do lose the previous license, yes you have a window to roll back but after that you are SOL. Sure there are hacks and tricks to get it for free just like any other software, but if you wish to stay legal you are trading in a valid license for a new license, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Win10 is not and has never been free.

[wraper]

It's free upgrade and you don't lose previous licence. You can install previous version if you don't like win 10 for some reason.
Also there is a way how to get it completely without any previous investment (without valid win 7/8 licence) if your conscience allows it. Without running any cracks on win 10, and digital license/activation permanently bound to hardware.

You absolutely do lose the previous license, yes you have a window to roll back but after that you are SOL. Sure there are hacks and tricks to get it for free just like any other software, but if you wish to stay legal you are trading in a valid license for a new license, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Win10 is not and has never been free.

Who prohibits doing fresh win 7 install?  And how lack of possibility to do automated rollback from win 10 suddenly invalidates win 7 licence?
BTW. All this stupid argument started from you taking word out of context  , nobody said there was no previous investment needed:

I still have Win 7 on several older machines, and feel no need to update to 10 for any reason (which would be expensive as well today now that W10 is no longer offered as a free upgrade).

Its still free.

It has never been free. All along you have had to trade a valid license for a superior OS!

[SiliconWizard]

Just a quick question - didn't really bother to look that up in depth myself, since I don't care about Win 10 for the time being.

I've heard many people say that the Win 7 to 10 upgrade was still free, whereas MS always officially stated that the free upgrade would only be for the first year. I've looked a little on MS website, and I can't find any info on the upgrade being still free. Can anyone point me to an OFFICIAL info about that?

And in case there's indeed NO official info from MS, but upgrades are still free, can anyone explain why?
MS has f*cking dsigned a whole web page about end of support for Win 7, and why you should go for Win 10, and I've seen nowhere in it that the upgrade was free. Seriously. Instead, they just recommend you to buy a new computer!

So, what's up with that?

Sure, the obvious would be saying that MS just doesn't talk about free upgrades and tells people to buy a new computer, because this way they'll get money for the OEM version you'll get with the new computer. But really guys. Has MS become so desperate and so oblivious to their customers that they will just lie to them, if just by omission here?

And again, if I missed any clear and official info from MS about this, and you can point us to it, don't hesitate to do so. Then I'll apologize here to MS for being so bitchy.