'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!

[DiTBho]

For that you have the immense power of M$'s popularity: things get fixed much quicker and these "details" (which are very critical IMO) are left behind in Linux.

Precisely 

[PKTKS]

For that you have the immense power of M$'s popularity: things get fixed much quicker and these "details" (which are very critical IMO) are left behind in Linux.

Precisely 

Don't buy that so easy.. they have been crippled/defective by design.

not by chance

[rsjsouza]

For that you have the immense power of M$'s popularity: things get fixed much quicker and these "details" (which are very critical IMO) are left behind in Linux.

Precisely 

Don't buy that so easy.. they have been crippled/defective by design.

not by chance

Well, the unfortunate reality is that, whenever you are chasing the leader, you need to bend and adapt to some of its idiosyncracies.

I am not saying it is right, but it is the reality.

Similar thing about Windows' higher instability when compared to the fruit company: mostly caused by deviations and crippled/badly supported hardware and software* - something Apple does not have to deal. Unfair comparison? Perhaps, but it is the reality (and Apple still manages to screw up from time to time).

*something so serious that caused an entire OS (Vista) to be canned due to poorly behaved application software that wanted to scribble everywhere in the system but UAC wouldn't let it.

[PKTKS]

These are just some facts to account:
- Apple products are way better than PCs (generics)
- Even  ¨branded" PCs are way below Apple hardware
- Nevertheless Apple charges insane values for that - true overpriced
- PCs can be generic speaking repaired and tweaked - Apple hardly will be true
- PC OS mostly falls the duet *NIX or MS ( or ...1% other)
- Apple never did that. Soon they realized how profitable is to *NIX Apple
- Apple is not by chance closed (however using open source soft)
- MS never was and never will be open soft - accepting that while having true OSS is pure BS

There is no possible comparison
neither in hardware - software or even in price range.

If you want a product - go Apple
If you want a filthy hoax - go MS always

If you want good reliable stuff - go *NIX

crude facts of business
Paul

[coromonadalix]

You forget that apple did or was based on the same pc components

They had the same scsi  ide sta drives, intel based cpu's  etc... they just had an little extra to make them Apple

[PKTKS]

You forget that apple did or was based on the same pc components

They had the same scsi  ide sta drives, intel based cpu's  etc... they just had an little extra to make them Apple

TRUE.  they may be the same parts...

BUT! the build quality of their boards and the finish and the design
have absolute nothing in common with ordinary retailer generic PCs

They are built with some degrees above the PC quality..

AND.. they do invest in people full time working to adapt the OSS
drivers and stuff to their proprietary hardware base..

they found the niche to claim property and transform OSS into Apple property

at a very very overpriced rate

Simply put they are better - but do not worth that much
Paul

[madires]

Apple has a long list of design flaws, e.g. butterfly keyboards or too short display cables (Flexgate). I can't see any superior built quality.

[DiTBho]

Apple has a long list of design flaws, e.g. butterfly keyboards or too short display cables (Flexgate). I can't see any superior built quality.

Yup! My friend's Apple MacBookPro fried during computations. My Lenovo Carbon X1 is still alive.

[bd139]

Damn if you think MacBooks are bad try a Dell. I have a corp precision 5550 and it’s a complete piece of shit. Literally the worst laptop ever used and I have owned a lot of stinkers.

I’ve broken three MacBooks. They aren’t very durable. Neither are they very reliable unfortunately. Just had to return an M1 Mac mini as well due to display failure 

About the only thing that still isn’t a steamer is a Lenovo thinkpad T, X or P series. Running windows.

[DiTBho]

M1 Mac mini

I have a cluster of Mac-Mini
Four G1 units (PPC)
Four G2 units (x86 intel core duo dual)

I will add for sure four M1 units, but not now, for sure next year.
I think they are still "unripe" apples

[rsjsouza]

These are just some facts to account:

I am sorry, but these are far from facts. Having used Apple since 2013, I can tell their hardware is well done but at the same price bracket as a higher end PC (my company buys both). The huge differential in quality was mostly during the 2000s, but in the 2010s they were caught by competition.

Don't take my word for it: a cursory scan over Louis Rossmann Youtube channel can give you some perspective.

Regarding the OS, it took them many years to realize that *nix would do anything for them - they were very late with a preemptive multithreaded kernel and only released something four years after Jobs was back at the company. I used lightly their versions prior to OSX and Win98/NT and were light years ahead.

Damn if you think MacBooks are bad try a Dell. I have a corp precision 5550 and it’s a complete piece of shit. Literally the worst laptop ever used and I have owned a lot of stinkers.

This was indeed a bad series from Dell, worse than the Latitudes D620/D630/D820 (although these were plagued by the failing nVidia chips). I had a 5500 where the battery swelled within 1-1/2 years. Not to mention the dance around 4k monitors and docking station support. I was forced by the company to switch to this from my excellent Latitude E6520. Now the company gave me a HP Elitebook 830 - I really hope it is better (although I won't keep my hopes up).

Oh well... Bad examples can be found everywhere. No company is perfect and is always better than everybody else.

[bd139]

Not so sure. Lenovo are notoriously less shit than all the others. I say less shit because better isn't a fair description yet 

[bd139]

M1 Mac mini

I have a cluster of Mac-Mini
Four G1 units (PPC)
Four G2 units (x86 intel core duo dual)

I will add for sure four M1 units, but not now, for sure next year.
I think they are still "unripe" apples

M1's are crazy fast. Was getting better multi threaded compile times with LLVM than my Ryzen 3700X without it getting warm to the touch.

But yes, give it a couple of generations. There are TB, Bluetooth and display issues with them. It's a good first gen product though. They nearly nailed it.

[DiTBho]

A pic of the PowerBook G4 I was talking about. I am hacking Yaboot just right now because is no more supported and I don't like grub.



I have an experimental uboot that I wrote myself and would love to use it. Maybe this way I can assure that the Linux kernel is initialized correctly, so I could rule out that this is the main problem due to the flaw encountered during suspend / wake.

Who knows? Let's let's hunter the fox bug 

[rsjsouza]

Not so sure. Lenovo are notoriously less shit than all the others. I say less shit because better isn't a fair description yet 

Hehehe... Good way to put it. In any case, a few years ago our company put two generations of Lenovos and quickly retired them. I didn't use them directly but the IT folks told me they were almost at the point of going "Office Space" style on them.

[james_s]

I like my Lenovo X250, it's been rock solid since I bought it in 2015. The only thing I really hate about it is the lack of physical buttons under the trackpad. I have several T400 series machines and they're great too except the displays are crap. Nice reliable machines though, I fished 5 or 6 of them out of the recycle bin at a former job.

[Halcyon]

These are just some facts to account:
- Apple products are way better than PCs (generics)
- Even  ¨branded" PCs are way below Apple hardware

There is no possible comparison
neither in hardware - software or even in price range.

I call bullshit. As someone who has serviced and repaired both, Apple and "Quality" generally don't go in the same sentence. Many models of Apple computers are plagued with build quality or design issues. You only need to look as far as Louis Rossmann's videos for a good cross section. Give me a Lenovo Thinkpad over a Macbook any day of the week!

The "problem" with the PC market is that there is so many variables and to build a reliable, high quality PC takes quite a bit of skill and knowledge.

As for Microsoft, Windows has turned into a piece of shit ever since Windows 8 was released and it has barely gotten any better today.

[Ed.Kloonk]

As for Microsoft, Windows has turned into a piece of shit ever since Windows 8 was released and it has barely gotten any better today.

You wash your mouth out with soap, young man!

Winders 3.1 was OK (barely) and it all went down hill from there.

[PKTKS]

These are just some facts to account:
- Apple products are way better than PCs (generics)
- Even  ¨branded" PCs are way below Apple hardware

There is no possible comparison
neither in hardware - software or even in price range.

I call bullshit. As someone who has serviced and repaired both, Apple and "Quality" generally don't go in the same sentence. Many models of Apple computers are plagued with build quality or design issues. You only need to look as far as Louis Rossmann's videos for a good cross section. Give me a Lenovo Thinkpad over a Macbook any day of the week!

The "problem" with the PC market is that there is so many variables and to build a reliable, high quality PC takes quite a bit of skill and knowledge.

As for Microsoft, Windows has turned into a piece of shit ever since Windows 8 was released and it has barely gotten any better today.

Very  specific reasons to conclude that:
-  Apple  SMC supervisor is a step ahead the PC Super I/O
- Apple board finish is always a step above PCs ...

BUT!.  recently I am very pleased with Gigabyte AORUS board finish..

Regarding Apple "quality" is pretty obvious they are designed to fail shortly
Let's not mix their superior fab. design with their obvious "deadline" goals.

In summary no Apple product should last more than 10 ..12 or 18 months

They are "defective by design"  although built with very good designs..

But last generation PC boards are really worth comparison..

But I have never ever seen the Super I/O generation so crippled as today

Paul

[bd139]

These are just some facts to account:
- Apple products are way better than PCs (generics)
- Even  ¨branded" PCs are way below Apple hardware

There is no possible comparison
neither in hardware - software or even in price range.

I call bullshit. As someone who has serviced and repaired both, Apple and "Quality" generally don't go in the same sentence. Many models of Apple computers are plagued with build quality or design issues. You only need to look as far as Louis Rossmann's videos for a good cross section. Give me a Lenovo Thinkpad over a Macbook any day of the week!

The "problem" with the PC market is that there is so many variables and to build a reliable, high quality PC takes quite a bit of skill and knowledge.

As for Microsoft, Windows has turned into a piece of shit ever since Windows 8 was released and it has barely gotten any better today.

That was true until recently. Thinkpads have gone to shit now.

1. Non removable battery with no purchasable replacement.
2. Glue
3. All the USB-C ports soldered onto the main board.
4. No separate charger port
5. PWM modulated backlit screens

Depressing.

But at least it's not Dell.

Anyway it doesn't matter what you buy now. Buy it new, with a warranty and use it until that's up and then chuck it onto the second hand market and fuck dealing with repairs.

[Monkeh]

But I have never ever seen the Super I/O generation so crippled as today

And what, exactly, is so crippled?

Not that I expect an intelligible response containing any provable facts.

[YurkshireLad]

As for Microsoft, Windows has turned into a piece of shit ever since Windows 8 was released and it has barely gotten any better today.

You wash your mouth out with soap, young man!

Winders 3.1 was OK (barely) and it all went down hill from there.

Windows has never really been good. Good enough perhaps, but not good.

[PKTKS]

But I have never ever seen the Super I/O generation so crippled as today

And what, exactly, is so crippled?

Not that I expect an intelligible response containing any provable facts.

Programmable ACPI firmware.

[Monkeh]

But I have never ever seen the Super I/O generation so crippled as today

And what, exactly, is so crippled?

Not that I expect an intelligible response containing any provable facts.

Programmable ACPI firmware.

...

You'll have to provide more than that.

[PKTKS]

You'll have to provide more than that.

You wish...