Author Topic: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!  (Read 22248 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5974
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #225 on: April 22, 2021, 05:30:02 pm »
More seriously, good support for Windows apps killed OS/2 because nobody needed to produce an OS/2 version of their apps and given the choice of one or the other companies chose the one with the larger market share. Rather than thinking of this as "people don't need to use Linux to run Linux apps" consider it as "companies don't have to[1] produce only Windows apps".
OS/2 was nice... I was a user of 2.1, 3 and 4. Years ahead of its main competitor at the time Windows 95, and version 4 had that incredible voice recognition software... Unfortunately for the reasons you mentioned and for the fact IBM really couldn't care less for the retail market... Oh well.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6687
  • Country: nl
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #226 on: April 22, 2021, 06:19:40 pm »
IMO if you lose retail you eventually lose it all.

The moment Microsoft gave up on mobile phones they became dead man walking. Even if they have been dipping their toes into first party hardware for a while now, they can't offer a complete ecosystem ... and that's what it's all about in the internet interconnected age. Google vs Apple is all that's left, but Google is destined to lose because their funding model makes it impossible to offer anything premium, while Apple can offer low end devices ... premium and datamining your customers just don't go together. Apple can't lose, not because their execution is particularly good (when they can't buy a year worth of process advantage) but simply because no one is competing.

Which is a shame, with Microsoft disappearing all the interesting hardware to run Linux on will disappear. The future looks boring ... the only dark horse might be NVIDIARM.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 06:23:54 pm by Marco »
 

Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: au
  • Medically retired Tech. Old School / re-learning !
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #227 on: April 26, 2021, 12:36:17 pm »
(OP again...)...  Well I wasn't expecting all that, but as a Community Forum there's nothing wrong with, or unexpected, regarding
the diversity of technical opinions, over the last 10 pages!, that 'sometimes' digressed !!   :)
The first FEW pages left me thinking I should change the Topic to "Linux.. WOW, I was almost sucked in!!" haha...  :phew:

I guess I was not so totally 'SOLD/Sucked-In' that I don't at least understand that there is good & bad with virtually everything in life!  :-+
However, I can CERTAINLY appreciate the benefits & utilizations of BOTH sides of the proverbial Fence, not to exclude the 'Mac' users/lovers!!
I've used DOS based systems from before 'Windows' existed, with no H.D. and just a 5+1/4" floppy drive, and every Windows system since...
So I guess I'm 'biased', but was/am totally willing to experiment & learn further, now.  I for one, (though I can understand there are some!),
have not 'yet' found any major issues regarding 99% of 'Drivers' (default/simulated or otherwise), with the OS's I've tried so far!
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 
The following users thanked this post: MIS42N

Offline edy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2385
  • Country: ca
    • DevHackMod Channel
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #228 on: April 27, 2021, 01:17:40 pm »
I didn’t read the entire thread but as an Ubuntu user for several years now I will give you my thoughts. First, your choice of which operating system to use depends mostly on the apps you need to run. It is a tool to allow certain apps to run and at the end of the day you can argue about the “superiority” of one OS versus another forever... real world applications and productivity will be the determining factor.

I’m on Ubuntu as well as my entire family (and the various Ubuntu variants) because for what we needed it works. I found it easy to repurpose older hardware, mostly used free laptops, into machines the kids would use for online COVID-era learning, with minimal resources. I wasn’t as concerned about viruses and the kids couldn’t screw things up too much. Even if they did, a complete reinstall was easy and quick.

For my purposes I have all the open-source options I need in Linux to be productive. Graphics, office, video and publishing software and many other tools are available. It was a learning curve but now I can do everything I was doing on Windows.

At my office I use Windows 10 because I run work software only available for Windows and there are no alternatives or options to switch. I am locked in and pay lots of money annually into special software that is Win10 only. So I try to keep nice clean updated Win10 machines at work, of which I have plenty. When they get old and no longer useful at the office I put Linux on them and either bring them home or run a headless server for file sharing. Either way I use both Win10 and Linux and look at them as nothing more than TOOLS required for applications I need to run. I prefer Linux at home only because I can choose leaner distros to run on older hardware and things are now simple thanks to many years of learning Linux.

The only reason I didn’t mention Apple here is because I’ve never owned Apple hardware, but the same thing applies... some exceptional software is available on Mac and has been for years, so people who are used to those applications and productive on them will stick to them and not bother switching if there is no compelling reason to do so.

In summary... learn and try and figure it out for yourself! Nobody can tell you what OS is better, because it depends on YOU! I only wish to encourage you to play around and since Linux distros for the most part are easily obtainable and free you can play around all you want!
YouTube: www.devhackmod.com LBRY: https://lbry.tv/@winegaming:b Bandcamp Music Link
"Ye cannae change the laws of physics, captain" - Scotty
 
The following users thanked this post: newbrain, GlennSprigg, Lindley

Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: au
  • Medically retired Tech. Old School / re-learning !
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #229 on: April 30, 2021, 10:53:05 am »
Well said (and understood) edy...
I've quickly realized that (apart from being free!) that a lot of long-term Linux/Unix users LOVE the hands-on 'Under-The-Hood' abilities, and
actually can/do swear by the speed & technical accomplishments they can achieve without even a 'GUI' as such! (And I can grasp that!)   ;D
And I further understand now, the myriad of GUI Distros & their included software/apps, that is very much a personal choice in most scenarios...

Computers/(software) have always been like 'cars' for instance... Some people just want to get in, start the engine, have the heater & radio on,
and just push a few pedals!  They care not, nor understand, about what's under the hood or how it all works!  And that's OK!!  ;D
That's what programmers/coders are for... do do the hard work behind the scenes, to simplify things for the 'majority' of normal users. However,
it 'seems' that a LOT of Linux-Style 'users', seem to be generally 'technical' in their nature, and LIKE to delve deep & play !  8)

I've learnt a lot over the last month or two, and for that I'm grateful . . .
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23017
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #230 on: April 30, 2021, 11:47:34 am »
Some of us programmers/engineery types like a computer that works like a car for the 80% of the time we're not actually in the bowels of some code because we're not that invested in it or grew out of that phase of thinking.

Which is where there's a compromise.

Incidentally I've got WSL2 on my laptop now and it's not terrible but there are some rough edges. For example I was trying to dd some data onto a USB stick the other day and that's not straightforward as the virtualization layer doesn't expose raw storage devices. So I had to boot a Ubuntu USB, at which point the amdgpu drivers hosed themselves after 2 minutes resulting in a reboot and enabling safe graphics mode. Ugh and you get the idea... all I wanted to do was write some bytes to a USB stick. Ended up using HxD on windows. Job done  :-//
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 11:50:39 am by bd139 »
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Online Black Phoenix

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1129
  • Country: hk
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #231 on: April 30, 2021, 02:03:49 pm »
I've been using dual boot since middle of 2019 - Windows 10 and Fedora Workstation. It turn into realizing that in a full year I booted my Windows install less than 20 times.

For someone that know the basics of Linux it had been an fun experience, of course combined with lots of Google Searches and some logical thinking. It culminated yesterday when I converted a bunch of commands to configure StrongSwan on Fedora from Debian distro, were the directories where not the same. It may look easy for anyone other than me, but for me the fact of being able to create, edit, save, delete and configure anything all by terminal without checking a single help manual just by the knowledge I acquired in tinkering with my system made me fell accomplished.

Currently at my day to day use I go specifically to Linux, using only Windows if for some reason I need to edit a photo (I'm a Photoshop/Lightroom user, and Adobe didn't release yet a version for Linux). It's true that Linux have the power to be the next big thing in the home computing, as it is currently in the server world. What It needs is a push by schools and universities, even more than it is currently, or teach in conjunction with Windows. Also needs uniformity, too many distros that spun off because of the "EGO" of some members that don't agree with the majority.

I also totally agree with the user edy when he said that there are certain distros for certain use cases. Will I ditch Windows totally? I don't think so, it still in my DNA and was what I was once certified to (MCSE). This use case is good enough for me, the best of both worlds. Future will be a Desktop PC but with dedicated NVME drives for each install (Windows and Fedora). Yes I know I can in my use case try Gnome Boxes and see if it satisfies my use case but I also play some PC Games, and having a second GPU just for that is not what I intend to (Although looks like nVidia is now allowing in GeForce cards the PCIe Passthrough that were reserved to their Quadro line up).

By the way, Rocky Linux is set to be released very soon, probably even today - https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/community-update-april-2021/2349 (Yes is the famed Discourse everyone hates...)

For the ones who may be out of the loop:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/centos-shifts-from-red-hat-unbranded-to-red-hat-beta/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/01/rocky-linux-gets-a-parent-company-with-4m-series-a-funding/

EDIT - well looks like the Release Candidate is available to download for who may be interested into - https://rockylinux.org/download/
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 05:44:40 am by Black Phoenix »
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline DiTBho

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #232 on: May 08, 2021, 02:12:47 pm »
Yesterday I paid for an update to TINA. It's still Windows XP/Vista/10 compatible, but it doesn't work well on WINE, so I am using it on a Windows machine.

I also bought a "MSI MODERN AM241" PC.

It's a "all on one" computer, embedded with the LCD, like an Apple iMac; intel i7-based, it has 8Gbyte of ram, an an internal NVME unit, but also it comes with a 2.5" bay for an SSD.

It has HDMI_out for a second LCD, and an HDMI_in port!!! (wow!!!) to be used as "LCD" from an other computer.

It looks perfect as "local Windows 10 Machine" when I need to use TINA attached to some things that don't work under visualization, and it's also good as "LCD" for the other computer which is Linux based 

There were also included wifi Keyboard and mouse.

Paid 900 euro for it, I love it :D
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23017
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #233 on: May 08, 2021, 05:06:55 pm »
That's a fairly nice looking machine that. Whole thing being a VESA mount is a winner as well. Can get one of those nice Sapper monitor arms for it then  :-DD
 

Offline DiTBho

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #234 on: May 09, 2021, 10:13:19 am »
LOL  ;D
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline olkipukki

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 790
  • Country: 00
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #235 on: May 10, 2021, 09:25:50 am »
offtopic:  ::)

I have a look what is 'MSI MODERN AM241' ... the sad part of today world, you need minium 24" monitor to able browse a few t-shirts on screen  |O  :palm:

https://www.msi.com/All-in-One-PC/Modern-AM241-11M
 

Offline PKTKS

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1766
  • Country: br
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #236 on: May 10, 2021, 09:34:05 am »
offtopic:  ::)

I have a look what is 'MSI MODERN AM241' ... the sad part of today world, you need minium 24" monitor to able browse a few t-shirts on screen  |O  :palm:

https://www.msi.com/All-in-One-PC/Modern-AM241-11M

... this is NOT offtopic...

LINUX  allowed such (WTF!!!!)  brick gizmos by dozens..

WTF is that shit?

A 24 inch display with that insane shit under ?
To display "camera pics"  and  "allowing" you to "store" some shit ?

WTF is that shit ?

a computer?  running LINUX kernel...
"allowing" you to BUY shit and display ADDS..
WTF IS THAT SHIT ?!!!!

give me a break... if computers will become that sort
of shit..  bricks with a "internet account"


i am out.. 
the "internet" is being privatized with such shit..
and the linux  UNIX kernel  's becoming  a stack of stinky shit like that..

unprintable
Paul
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23017
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #237 on: May 10, 2021, 10:14:23 am »
Did you forget your meds today?  :-DD

Commerce enabled the Internet to exist after it grew past academic interests...
 
The following users thanked this post: newbrain

Offline PKTKS

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1766
  • Country: br
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #238 on: May 10, 2021, 10:32:21 am »
Did you forget your meds today?  :-DD

Commerce enabled the Internet to exist after it grew past academic interests...

nah I read that with my extra strong cup of caffeine in veins
 :-DD   :popcorn:

still burning
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5974
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #239 on: May 10, 2021, 11:04:37 am »
Did you forget your meds today?  :-DD

Commerce enabled the Internet to exist after it grew past academic interests...
Precisely. The internet as we know it today is sponsored by the advertising industry.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline DiTBho

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #240 on: May 10, 2021, 11:33:00 am »
you need minium 24" monitor to able browse a few t-shirts on screen

Well, I am still using my 4:5 15" LCD here. Not a problem for my daily needs.
I feel the need for a 24" monitor for Premiere. Here I am with you.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline PKTKS

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1766
  • Country: br
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #241 on: May 10, 2021, 11:36:34 am »
Did you forget your meds today?  :-DD

Commerce enabled the Internet to exist after it grew past academic interests...
Precisely. The internet as we know it today is sponsored by the advertising industry.

ooo I just love that part... "as we know today" ...

They are still trying to privatize the very basic
things that actually "make" the "internet"..

Basic services are "forcedly" induced by "applets" (based on gizmos)
such as:
- Converting email into WEBMAIL hosted on their computers (snooped by adverts)
- Converting your media and assets into "cloud drives" (paid and snooped as well)
- Converting and obsoleting FTP into those shit "midia transfer"  shitlets... (censored as well)
- Converting all you photos/music/videos into proprietary DRM licences.. (paid snooped as well)
- Converting IRC and CHAT into ZAPs and all shit like that..(snooped by adverts)
- Converting your computer into their computers and pushing you a license..
- Converting all your life into (hosted) their computers (snooped by adverts)

they just call that "THE CLOUD" ..

just don't buy that - it is based on adds?

No it is based on fuckwit idiots paying licenses to access what once
a short time ago was free ... on their whole  life produced data..
privatized ...

just don't buy that so simple

Paul
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 11:39:46 am by PKTKS »
 

Offline DiTBho

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #242 on: May 10, 2021, 11:47:56 am »
A 24 inch display with that insane shit under ?
To display "camera pics"  and  "allowing" you to "store" some shit ?

WTF is that shit ?

a computer?  running LINUX kernel...

It's the computer where I run TINA Industrial v9 and where I design and simulate circuits. It's internal pcie is attached to lap instrumentation and it's so compact unit!

I also run MobaXterm/Pro to access my remote Linux SBC, and even Premiere and SolidWorks work decently, even if these, are for little tasks, I have to admit.

And it's the same computer LCD which serves me the output of my POWER9 workstation, and I didn't have to buy a KVM for this.

Why don't you like it? Aesthetically it's not very nice, but the cooling-fan and the thermal unit are more than decent and they make the CPU to work without any need for scaling down its frequency, and considering it's a low cost machine "all-in-one" and that it comes with WiFi keyboard and mouse included, well ... these are mostly the reasons why I like  it.

Rationally, a practical good compromise for my both my needs and my wallet!

if I had more money and more space I would have bought a different computer. Here I am with you.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline PKTKS

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1766
  • Country: br
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #243 on: May 10, 2021, 12:08:42 pm »
A 24 inch display with that insane shit under ?
To display "camera pics"  and  "allowing" you to "store" some shit ?

WTF is that shit ?

a computer?  running LINUX kernel...

(..)
Why don't you like it?
(..)


In just a simple shallow explanation...

Have you noticed how much shit stuff you (we) are forced
to buy (AND PAY) on any ANDROID ? or IPhone ?

All those applets bundled and impossible to remove...

They are paid. 
Under disclosed agreements force us to pay all that shit
insane prices.

This case just a bit close you are paying a forced "OS"
bundled and licensed and the whole thing inside it.

It is not a choice. Nor it has been anymore.

While consumers accept that shit..
it will  force the way into our lives.

That is why.

I run my own bench made computers as long as I remember
and as long as I can do so.

That is why.

Paul
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23017
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #244 on: May 10, 2021, 12:22:58 pm »
It is a choice. I actively chose to buy and pay because they give me a social, personal and business advantage. This allows me to make the most of my life without having to piss around micromanaging things.

It costs me 2.4% of my income to do this. For which it enables at least 40% if that income. Fucking good deal!

I can’t stand people complaining about people choosing things and saying that they have no choice. The argument is invalid. You can exist on a Linux desktop with Firefox, bury gold bullion in your garden, eat home grown farmed vegetables from your back garden and await the apocalypse. But that is a worse form of slavery to an ideology. It’s just another form of extremism which I’d hoped died out on slashdot 20 years ago….
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 12:41:32 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline DiTBho

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: gb
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #245 on: May 10, 2021, 01:15:32 pm »
While consumers accept that shit..

I don't know what are you talking about in this specific case  :-//

The included Windows10 license? I need it to run Tina, SolidWorks, and Premiere, so I am happy to see it.
The included webcam? I need it to run Zoom and Skype in order to make mini video conferences.
The included mouse and keyboard? Well, they are "Wifi", and they are also of decent-good quality.
The included LCD-arm? Well, I don't find the need to replace it. It's of superb quality.
D'oh, but there was no power-cord included, luckily, there are many of them in my labs.

I am going to install Arch on a USB stick, reserving 512Mbyte of ram and make the computer a "RAM-rootfs live" Linux one.

I promise to myself, I will! Today, in the early evening just after the dinner, or Tomorrow in the late afternoon, just after the tea break  :D
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 01:17:14 pm by DiTBho »
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline PKTKS

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1766
  • Country: br
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #246 on: May 10, 2021, 01:31:38 pm »
(..)
I promise to myself, I will! Today, in the early evening just after the dinner, or Tomorrow in the late afternoon, just after the tea break  :D

That sounds..

I have seen more and more folks that once done that..

the so called advantage has been booted once or two a year..

Paul
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5974
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #247 on: May 10, 2021, 01:33:21 pm »
Did you forget your meds today?  :-DD

Commerce enabled the Internet to exist after it grew past academic interests...
Precisely. The internet as we know it today is sponsored by the advertising industry.

ooo I just love that part... "as we know today" ...

They are still trying to privatize the very basic
things that actually "make" the "internet"..
The internet "as we know it today" is in comparison with Altavista or Lycos days - you know, back when MCI Worldcom was maintaining the vast majority of DNS and backbones on New York or Washington (at least that is where the traceroute pings showed on my screen) and you could telnet and FTP everywhere in plain text. Back then you were lucky to have a very limited mailbox space for email tied to your ISP monthly fee, and individually paid for the telephone line with a slow connection, the TCP/IP protocol stack (Trumpet Winsock - anybody ever paid for it?) and both the NCSA Mosaic was "free" simply because the US government put a ton of money on its development (just as well as the infrastructure to run all this). Netscape used most of Mosaic's code, thus allowing it to be "free" as well.

For everything else, everything either had an explicit money/material exchange (the few online stores) or were behind paywalls (news agencies, services, etc.)

Pretty much both sides of every service you mentioned "for free" aren't, regardless if it is in "the cloud" or not. Money has to come from somewhere (advertisement is the main source) to maintain infrastructure and most people can't afford or isn't technically inclined to maintain their own email or multimedia web server, let alone cutting off any communications with their family living abroad by not using an established messaging system.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Offline PKTKS

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1766
  • Country: br
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #248 on: May 10, 2021, 01:40:36 pm »
I ' ve  similar things over this across 90s 00s..

Bottom line always was:
 - Who was the lunatic who publish a free TCP/IP stack in
 the very first place.. so FTP/HTTP/IRC/SMTP... could be used..

question is undeniably: DARPA as soon as WWII showed that imperative.

Netware failed miserably with their proprietary stack..

But today merchants seems to forgot WWII DARPA reasons

Paul
 

Online Nominal Animal

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6133
  • Country: fi
    • My home page and email address
Re: 'Linux'.. WOW, I'm almost toltally SOLD now!!!
« Reply #249 on: May 11, 2021, 05:27:55 pm »
I've quickly realized that (apart from being free!) that a lot of long-term Linux/Unix users LOVE the hands-on 'Under-The-Hood' abilities, and
actually can/do swear by the speed & technical accomplishments they can achieve without even a 'GUI' as such! (And I can grasp that!)   ;D
And I further understand now, the myriad of GUI Distros & their included software/apps, that is very much a personal choice in most scenarios...
If you logically examine this further, you'll see it is all about workflow.  And that is what I believe matters: having the tool conform to ones workflow, instead of having the tool dictate which workflows are "allowed" or possible.

Then, considering a tool separately from any workflow(s), becomes utterly goofy: like five-year-old kids talking about what make and model car they'll buy when they're old enough.  (Such talk is fun, though; it just doesn't have much to do with real life.)

That's what programmers/coders are for... do do the hard work behind the scenes, to simplify things for the 'majority' of normal users. However,
it 'seems' that a LOT of Linux-Style 'users', seem to be generally 'technical' in their nature, and LIKE to delve deep & play !  8)
Yes, because those are the users/developers that contribute to Linux.  It would be silly to expect such user-devs to try to make the tool they use less intuitive/effective/efficient for themselves, just so that it would be more popular, especially since statistically, such personality types tend to be more focused on things rather than people.

(Those paying for Linux development use Linux either in embedded devices and appliances (where the end users don't know they're using a "computer", much less Linux, at all), or highly technical environments – software development, HPC, servers, etc.; and AIUI the humans involved are much more technically-oriented than average computer users, so it makes sense that even those paying for Linux development, generally target more technical users too.)

Obviously, there are lots of things in Linux (the kernel, the GNU parts, and the distributions) that need fixing, and a lot of development that does not actually make sense to many of us... but because of the licensing, it is not a matter of what is possible or allowed, only a matter of what is feasible, time/effort/cost-wise.  The correct question to any workflow-related issue is not "Could we ... ?", but "How ... efficiently/effectively?" – and this distinction is something a lot of people do not grok; that the answer is a spectrum of options depending on the context and personal preferences, even less.  Freedom is fun only when it's also simple, I guess.

I do believe you are beginning to see both the options and their relative "costs" when it comes to things Linux-y, sir.
 
The following users thanked this post: newbrain, DiTBho


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf