Google wants to kill the (free) internet

[Karel]

Google wants that big tech takes control over the internet and your devices:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/googles-web-integrity-api-sounds-like-drm-for-the-web/

https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/25/google_web_environment_integrity/

If this goes through, you cannot use an "untrusted" OS or browser anymore...

[tggzzz]

Apple already shipped attestation on the web, and we barely noticed
    There’s been a lot of concern recently about the Web Environment Integrity proposal, developed by a selection of authors from Google, and apparently being prototyped in Chromium.
...
    This proposal amounts to attestation on the web, limiting access to features or entire sites based on whether the client is approved by a trusted issuer. In practice, that will mean Apple, Microsoft & Google.
    Of course, Google isn’t the first to think of this, but in fact they’re not even the first to ship it. Apple already developed & deployed an extremely similar system last year, now integrated into MacOS 13, iOS 16 & Safari, called “Private Access Tokens“.
https://www.osnews.com/story/136502/apple-already-shipped-attestation-on-the-web-and-we-barely-noticed/

[50ShadesOfDirt]

I appreciate the self-identification from all of these companies and organizations with their "attestation" maneuvers, checks, etc. Such an app or restriction would only happen once, before it became history on my devices.

Once they've identified themselves in such ways, I stop using them and their services. It's *my* internet, *my* devices, and so on, and if they forget that or try to hijack that, I work around them or toss them out.

Can't remember the last time I let a vendor install an OS for me that I didn't rework as appropriate to disable/remove all their crud. I don't use apps within a browser; I just browse mostly static web pages. I don't use cloud services. If something requires an account in the cloud to "login to a free service", I avoid it.

I don't use Apple products with all their proprietary schemes, so don't know if they are helping or hindering the protection of your data.

Haven't really hit any kind of roadblock to this strategy that I can think of, nor a service that I couldn't live without or find alternatives for.

There doesn't seem much that a sophisticated end-user can't work around, with just a tad bit of research ...

[gnuarm]

Google wants that big tech takes control over the internet and your devices:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/googles-web-integrity-api-sounds-like-drm-for-the-web/

https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/25/google_web_environment_integrity/

If this goes through, you cannot use an "untrusted" OS or browser anymore...

I didn't read the articles, so I don't know how this would operate, i.e. how it would be enforced.  The bottom line is, which web sites are going to cut you off, because you aren't using an official browser or whatever?  Do you think the companies who pay big bucks to build web sites and get people to visit, are going to do anything to turn people away???

Reminds me a lot of sawing off the branch you are sitting on.

[AndyBeez]

The bottom line is, which web sites are going to cut you off, because you aren't using an official browser or whatever? 

A question for an answer: how many websites are now 100% reliant on Google's javascript framework APIs? That 500Mb analytics bloat that makes sites unresponsive. I argue that by requiring web browsers to be complaint with the latest incarnation of Javascript [web standards driven by Google], then we are already in a place where Google's control of websites is happening.

For example, my Chrome browsers on older Android devices, which are not upgradable thanks to Google's planed OS obsolescence, mangle websites due to their incompatibility with the latest 'framework features' as deployed in the bandwidth bloat. I know the reason why pages do not render or break in the middle of transactions, but most regular folks don't. They just think they are at fault, and need to upgrade to the newest shiny box.

Then there are the web-apps, which are just websites masquerading as apps in a fancy UI wrapper. Apps that for some reason need privileged access to the owners contacts, camera and location, just to function as a regular web page?

I should add that the EEVblog renders perfectly, even with 'antique' browsers - so kudos to Dave et.al.

Extrapolating... If a user proves to Google they are human then, that user has immutable human rights. Rights which include digital rights. Put in a more controversial way, since the abolition of slavery, human beings ceased to be a commodity, so why is our personal data so profitable?

The future is already here, it's just that most people missed the arrival.

[Infraviolet]

We have a fundamental human right to use our own choice of OS and other software stack elements on our own devices, "my home is my castle" damn well applies to hard-drives too. I think we could also say that it is a human rights violation for a corporation to refuse to regard you as human and refuse you service simply because you couln't "prove humanity" by theirarbtirary standards.

If google pushes ahead with this then anyone who finds ways to utterly compromise it and leak the keys so everyone can self-sign that their noncompliant browser is compliant will be a hero deserving of international awards.

As for any DRM scheme, it involves a corporation trying to put keys in to the hands of the person they regard as "the enemy" *, and then trying to control wht the person who has the keys handed to them can do with them. It will be vulnerable somewhere, by its very nature of "putting keys in the enemys hands and hoping they don't use them" all DRM gets beaten eventually when it is on something widely enough used for plenty of people to care about.

*something is pretty wrong when the customer is treated as the enemy

[Shonky]

Do we need another thread?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/googles-web-drm

[dietert1]

I am shocked with the recent news that OpenAI is trying to get the iris images of humans in their Worldcoin effort. The internet is becoming a prison and one better stays away.

Regards, Dieter

[radiolistener]

We have a fundamental human right to use our own choice of OS and other software stack elements on our own devices

The issue here is that you don't manufacture your own devices. You're buying it from corporation, which can set condition for its usage, for example you're needs to be slave in order to buy and use it.

I am shocked with the recent news that OpenAI is trying to get the iris images of humans in their Worldcoin effort. The internet is becoming a prison and one better stays away.

[SiliconWizard]

We have a fundamental human right to use our own choice of OS and other software stack elements on our own devices,

I think we should too, but do we? What is there to ensure that?

"my home is my castle" damn well applies to hard-drives too.

Makes sense, but I unfortunately think our homes are not our castles anymore. Privacy and basic freedoms suspiciously look like things of the past.

I think we could also say that it is a human rights violation for a corporation to refuse to regard you as human and refuse you service simply because you couln't "prove humanity" by theirarbtirary standards.

Yeah. But even governments are progressively doing this. If we don't want it to happen, that's going to require a serious wake-up call. Otherwise we're already doomed.
Google is just one tiny tip of the iceberg.

[radiolistener]

If we don't want it to happen, that's going to require a serious wake-up call. Otherwise we're already doomed.

it's too late... Now there is no way to wake-up for those who haven't woken up yet...

The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’