MS gives to GNOME

[SiliconWizard]

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/06/microsoft-foss-fund-gnome-project

 

[bd139]

Don't forget that Microsoft Loves Open Source.

[SiliconWizard]

Ahaha!

Well, if you consider how GNOME has inspired the Windows 11 GUI and how "microsofty" the GNOME project has become anyway, it all makes sense.
The donation looks a bit ridiculous in that regard, though.

[bd139]

Yep. The whole Microsoft, C#, Xamarin, Gnome thing was a bit weird.

[tszaboo]

10000 USD? Wow such much feels good.

[magic]

Every 10k to GNOME is 10k too much

[MrMobodies]

I don't often  use it but one thing I absolutely hated was the "activities" panel which looked very stupid and bloated to me after an update to the LTS edition in 2011. I was about to revert then found I could remove the components for it and add some components back and the hidden path bar thing later introduced that resembled the breadcrumbs but couldn't type in it without pressing a button the side which is not what I want. I can't remember if there was a setting or I had manually edit something but I got it good again with some messing about. The following releases I tried XFCE and reverted to the old copy I had for years.

Last time I tried Gnome and XFCE in 2020 I found that the inactive windows are dimmed which I found very annoying and according to one discussion with the developers basically saying "it's built it", there's nothing you can do and won't fix or providing settings for. So a big nono. With some help on the Eevblog IRC was recommended me KDE with Plasma which I found was full of annoying things too but not as bad as that as I found I could switch all the nonsense animations and effects off.

[SiliconWizard]

The sad thing about desktop environments on Linux (but this has been a drama almost right from the start) is that it's only getting worse instead of getting better.

And the second sad thing is that most of the newer DEs that are "marketed" as being all new and shiny and great (such as Deepin, Pop...) are based on... Gnome. Talk about diversity.

KDE is, depending on your own taste and perspective, moderately to much better, but I don't think it's quite there either. Then you have XFCE/LXDE which have the decency of being lightweight... There's also Enlightenment, which is interesting software-wise but has been in perpetual "alpha" state for like 2 decades, and still looks like a toy as far as the users are concerned.

But all of them pretty much look like toys. Not saying they are unusable, but they are not great and things are not improving.

[bd139]

Totally agree. What was sad was that gnome 2 was actually the last competent attempt at something usable. All it needed was lots of small improvements and maintenance but no they rewrote it in some grand vision which was clearly crack inspired. And no reconfiguring later gnome versions is not an adequate solution.

[DiTBho]

that it's only getting worse instead of getting better

gtk-itsef is only getting worse instead of getting better 

[DiTBho]

Enlightenment, which is interesting software-wise but has been in perpetual "alpha" state for like 2 decades, and still looks like a toy as far as the users are concerned.

Enlightenment + hacks = nice things

[DiTBho]

Anyway, I don't even need a "Desktop Environment" 

What I only need is a "Tiling Window Manager" written in C, with AP for being notified of every single event!

Everything else is futile and only consumes RAM and CPU cycles.

[bd139]

Sounds like you need a Mac  . That does tiled full screen window management, virtual desktops, the terminal has split screen, multi-window and tab capability and it's as smooth as butter with gesture control. Also being ARM it doesn't matter about the cycles because the battery lasts forever 

But fuck tiling terminals. That's just horrible way of working. "oh fun I want to use the mouse to select something in the left pane of a window. Oh now I have to deal with the whole line or wrapping in a pane". Ugh.

[JPortici]

KDE is, depending on your own taste and perspective, moderately to much better, but I don't think it's quite there either. Then you have XFCE/LXDE which have the decency of being lightweight...

Whenever i install linux on a laptop, or on a VM, i always use XFCE. As you say at least it's lightweight. I used to like Gnome 2 (simple, not wasting a ton of screen space)
I don't understand the resource hog of KDE (older, i hear now it's better?) and that any modern DE, wasn't linux supposed to be fast?
Seriously, every time try a new DE, that only increases my liking for windows 10 and its explorer. Minimal, non intrusive, doesn't have the look and feel of children's software.

[voltsandjolts]

Yeh, it would probably help linux adoption if there was a desktop which just mimicked Win10 look n feel. That would lower the first hurdle for new users, but they'd still have plenty of other crap to deal with TBH.

Icaza always seemed like the MS funded trojan horse to me, they were backing him just incase he managed to stir the hornets nest and muddy the waters, so to speak. Open core c# is similar game. The 10K to Gnome is peanuts in comparison.

[bd139]

Totally agree.

[DiTBho]

But fuck tiling terminals. That's just horrible way of working. "oh fun I want to use the mouse to select something in the left pane of a window. Oh now I have to deal with the whole line or wrapping in a pane". Ugh.

umm, that's bullshit 

You are confusing Tiling Terminals Manager (e.g. Tmux) with Tiling Windows Manager (e.g. dwm(1)).

A Tiling Windows Manager does nothing but organizing the screen into mutually non-overlapping tiled-frames, so inside each tiled-window you can comfortably select things with your mouse without wrapping in a pane.


(1) actually dwm also allows moving and resizing windows with the mouse

[themadhippy]

Yeh, it would probably help linux adoption if there was a desktop which just mimicked Win10 look n feel.

Ive stuck with gnome classic or whatever they call it, none of the stupid "prettying" just a desktop that looks an works almost like it did 20 years ago, how i likes it.Im sure most windows users would get used to it pretty quick once they realise the "start" button is top left instead of bottom left

[JohanH]

Gnome is the best desktop manager ever. It just stays out of the way and lets me use my applications. Best experience ever.

People sound like they are constantly fiddling with their "desktops" and have a need to tweak this and that. You must be doing something wrong. I don't want to see the "desktop", much less fiddle around with it all day long. That's not what I use computers for.

[madires]

Lovely! Can't wait to see a bloated WinGnome.

[MrMobodies]

People sound like they are constantly fiddling with their "desktops" and have a need to tweak this and that.

I just want it left alone like it was before.

There are lots of changes over the years some of it I find no problem. It is when I am being disadvantaged in some way or features are introduced that have no purpose to me but to interfere and make easy things difficult with what I am trying doing which is why I feel the need either adjust these things or get rid of them.

For example:
Windows Vista:
Breadcrumbs, interfere's with my viewing of the address bar so AveNobreadcrumbs or Classicshell stops that behaviour.
I rememered at one time. One image file in a folder can trigger on return a change to "Extra Large Icons" with the filenames hidden. To get it the filenames back I had to go into Tools -> Folder options -> some other tab and change it to "Picture and Videos" then "Hide file name" would appear or be selectable. Then it would it do it again but fortunately there were work arounds for it.

Gnome:
Activities pane
Too big and in the way of everything else so when I select it it covers up what I might be still looking at.

Inactive window shading:
When I am working on files and directories with different windows open what good does it do obscuring my view of the window by dimming it?
In my opinion very stupid idea. Why can they just leave it alone like before when it wasn't a problem?

Now you can see why I change these things and tweak stuff for my convenience so I can use it without frustration.

[SiliconWizard]

Totally agree. What was sad was that gnome 2 was actually the last competent attempt at something usable. All it needed was lots of small improvements and maintenance but no they rewrote it in some grand vision which was clearly crack inspired. And no reconfiguring later gnome versions is not an adequate solution.

Well, there was some potential in Gnome 2, but it was still "toyish".
The attempts at making it more modern while retaining the good things, like Mate or Cinnamon, yeah. That's usable, but not terribly good.

Designing a good desktop environment is not easy. And yes, Apple has managed to do something not too bad. Unfortunately, others just try to mimick macOS but only manage to take the worst of it along with some eye candy and think they've made it. Nope.

[bd139]

That’s because the last 20% of the job takes 80% of the effort and no one has yet invested time into it because it’s more fun creating new things.

Having spent years trying to get bugs fixed in open source software has actually put me off it.

[SiliconWizard]

That’s because the last 20% of the job takes 80% of the effort and no one has yet invested time into it because it’s more fun creating new things.

Yes, and that's the problem in general with hobby vs. professional projects.

There's always a point in any project where the challenge part is over and finalizing it is tough and boring. That's often where a hobby project stops (and we have all experienced that), while in a professional setting, you just have to take it to completion. If you wanna keep your job.

[bd139]

Clearly never worked in the enterprise software market. 20% is done 

[DiTBho]

others just try to mimick macOS

I did, wanna see what the result was? 

[bd139]

others just try to mimick macOS

I did, wanna see what the result was? 

Gnome 42 is a pretty good example of what bad macOS looks like.

[DiTBho]

and I've done worse, I've done it! 

[SiliconWizard]

others just try to mimick macOS

I did, wanna see what the result was? 

Sure!

[DiTBho]

Here it is!

It runs on a true PowerMac G4, PPC7410@500Mhz

It's partially based on e16, with a lot of hacked code, fonts, buttons, etc
It's graphically inconsistent, and the finder menu doesn't communicate with the selected app.

You can launch different type of x-terminals, and they look like if they were BeOS terminals.

No doubt, it's more a mash-up between BeOS v5.03 and MacOSX v10.1!

That's why it's called "Be-Aqua" 

[bd139]

Crikey. That’s an acid trip and a half.

[DiTBho]

Crikey. That’s an acid trip and a half.

Yup. New designs are dwm-based, tiling windows oriented, completely different, and graphically simpler.
Plus, 100% written (or rewritten) in C.

Hacking e16 is not funny after a while

[bd139]

It was horrible 20 years ago.

Actually I think Enlightenment was what persuaded me to buy that blue G3 powermac back in the day 

Edit: ah fuck bad flashback. Spent bloody ages trying to get a working Debian and Enlightenment setup. Had a beige setup from hell. Compaq Professional Workstation 5000. Early SMP dual Pentium Pro box. Literally I got sooooo fed up with it I stacked up my credit card with the mac and never regretted it for a moment. PWS 5000 was relegated to NT duties.

[DiTBho]

Nah, Enlightenment is still in alpha-stage, and you have to hack it a lot, otherwise ... I think you won't be happy with it 

Really I lost the enthusiasm with e16, and instead of hacking it, I prefer to write my own windows manager, based on a simpler dwm-fork.

I am focused on minimalist and simpler designs, since I cannot guaranty graphical coherency, and I'm not an expert (rather incoherent, hence very bad) in human interface design.

[SiliconWizard]

It's not that bad. I've seen worse.