Author Topic: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.  (Read 4603 times)

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Offline nardevTopic starter

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Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« on: January 17, 2020, 10:37:12 pm »
Here is the article, i believe you can find some info in English sites.

https://www.tportal.hr/vijesti/clanak/otkriveno-cemu-zapravo-sluzi-misteriozni-americki-uredaj-koji-je-u-mrezu-ulovio-hrvatski-ribar-kod-mljeta-foto-20200117

Basicaly a fisherman fished out the device and returned it bit later.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/01/12/mystery-underwater-device-lost-by-us-navy/#7d120c7d6830

I'm wondering if you know for any other similar stories, accidental discoveries of army equipment or so?





 

Offline iMo

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2020, 10:56:33 pm »
Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 11:01
Origin Service Area: KENNER, LA - STENNIS SPACE CENTER - USA
Destination Service Area: ZAGREB - OPATIJA - CROATIA

https://www.dhl.com/en/express/tracking.html?AWB=2963707526&brand=DHL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Stennis_Space_Center
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 11:01:30 pm by imo »
Readers discretion is advised..
 
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Offline nardevTopic starter

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2020, 10:58:13 pm »
Ha ha :D

 

Offline iMo

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2020, 11:03:07 pm »
This guys sit in the Stennis Space Center too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Data_Buoy_Center

Quote
The National Data Buoy Center (NDBC) is a part of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) National Weather Service (NWS). NDBC designs, develops, operates, and maintains a network of data collecting buoys and coastal stations. The NBDC is located in southern Mississippi as a tenant at the John C. Stennis Space Center, a National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) facility.

Thus the NDBC shipped a research buoy to Croatia, the Croatia Oceanic Weather guys threw the buoy into the Adriatic sea, and the fisherman has got it  :-DD

« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 11:26:17 pm by imo »
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Offline nardevTopic starter

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2020, 11:22:45 pm »
The portal which published the story "morski.hr" had huge hacker attacks and didn't work properly for 24 hours.

https://morski.hr/2020/01/11/morski-hr-bio-meta-masovnog-hakerskog-napada-iz-sjeverne-amerike/

: )

The Croatian fisherman was asking for covering expenses and obviously they were bit confused. After a while, he got his money and they got the device back.

https://www.24sata.hr/news/vratio-sam-im-uredaj-oni-su-mislili-da-sam-somalski-pirat-669499

They first tried to offer "a promise" but the fisherman was insisting, first money. I think that the return was 20.000 HRK which is about 3000$. It's about 3-4 months average salary in Croatia.
 

Offline iMo

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2020, 11:34:08 pm »
Money for what? I would charge the fisherman with $10k fine for damaging the state property :)
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Offline nardevTopic starter

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2020, 11:43:38 pm »
Money for what? I would charge the fisherman with $10k fine for damaging the state property :)

People in this region don't fail for promises and i'm pretty sure that if he accepted the promise that he would never see the money so, he was determined first to get money.

The 20k of HRK was probably pretty fair price, if he asked for some huge expenses, i'm sure that they would have find the way to take it from him some other way. This countries are not in a position to negotiate and stand by their men and this exploration was actually fully supported and approved by Croatian government.

Strange thing is that some Croatian captains was negotiation on behalf of American crew.
 

Offline eliocor

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    • rhodiatoce
 

Offline nardevTopic starter

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2020, 09:01:47 am »
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51130644  ;)

Looool  :-DD :-DD :-DD

If I remember correctly, @eevblog Dave was making some of underwater ocean exploring equipment. Maybe he has some idea about those things?
 

Offline Twoflower

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2020, 10:44:49 am »
Here in Germany one underwater observatory got missing in action last summer. They're really puzzled how that could happen. As it was fixed to the ground, very heavy (520 and 220 kg) and the area is a not allowed for ships. The cables were forcefully ripped off. So if you happen to find it on your local beach or pond they probably would be very happy to get it back ;-)

I don't think it has shipping labels attached, so that might complicate things.  ^-^

Unfortunately the article is only in German, but the pictures show the cable and parts(!) of the station: https://www.geomar.de/news/article/unterwasserobservatorium-bei-boknis-eck-verschwunden/ 
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2020, 10:58:57 am »
The trash dumpers  >:( need to pay out that fisherman handsomely
and ASAP to make the story 'go away..'

What kind of lowlifes dump stuff like that in the sea, when it can be scrapped professionally back on shore,
and supervised and documented/filmed as well if it's a 'security risk' or 'classified' BS   :popcorn:

What 'security' or 'secrecy is there at the bottom of the sea in 2020 ?  :palm:

« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 11:01:04 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline iMo

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2020, 11:22:47 am »
Here in Germany one underwater observatory got missing in action last summer.
The more the media will write about it (and most notably about the $$$ related) the more fishermen will try to fish the stuff out of sea.. :)
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Online chris_leyson

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2020, 11:41:55 am »
Probably measuring temperature, current, salinity, dissolved oxygen etc, nothing secret.
EDIT: No evidence of a bubble camera to measure tiny bubbles caused by submarime propeller cavitation and where is the external instrumentation to listen cables.  :palm:
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 08:38:57 pm by chris_leyson »
 
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2020, 12:26:24 pm »
There is a very good scientific use for these EARS units and it, of course, has significant military uses as well. Submarine hunting is still very much alive and the Russians regularly test NATO’s detection systems and protocols. It is a game of ‘cat & mouse’ that is normally carried out in the spirit of a game. Just like airborne sorties that take place to test and annoy  ;D

The EARS buoy is an acoustic data collection unit that records the acoustic signature of the area in which it is deployed. That data provides a baseline for detecting sounds that are unusual, such as propeller or other propulsion induced noises coming from man ,ade systems operating at depth. Counter incursion, detection and identification technology basically. The unit is designed to operate over a long period of time to log the acoustic signature of the area and is recovered by its owners at the end of its assignment. It is then downloaded and the data analysed. It does not send its information to the surface in real time and is not part of a defence network, hence it is unclassified and well documented. Those scientists with an interest in Whale sounds and song have been able to extract such scientific data from the recordings of these EARS units. With the data they learn more about the Whales communications etc.

This is a piece of science equipment with a good purpose. It operates at great depths far away from most human activity but occasionally a fisherman catches one. No great drama and truthfully not much of a story.

If you want scary..... consider this..... trawlers have actually ‘caught’ submarines in their nets.... there is often no time for a Mayday call and the vessel is quickly pulled under the surface. Trawlers are known to just disappear without reason and this is one cause.

http://www.ladcgemm.org/research-2/


Some more trivia ..... if you were in a military submarine and in a state of war, consider this......

As you pass into enemy territory there is submarine detection technology that is both passive and active in operation. There are ‘listening posts’ all over the World listening for specific acoustic signatures in the sea. There are fixed sonobuoys operational in the seas that also listen for acoustic signals of interest. They pass detection data back to their controllers in real time. If a ‘target’ is detected the ‘hunter killer’ teams launch a search. They deploy multiple sonobuoys, both active and passive types in a specific pattern that searches for the target and passes real time data back to the surface ships, hunter killer submarines and airborne submarine killers. A detection and location network is formed with significant processing and killing power. If the submarine is detected by these sophisticated systems its only chance is to defend itself using weaponry or it may attempt to ‘go silent’ at great depth. Most modern submarines are equipped with sub-surface missile and torpedo systems to attack sea borne and air borne vessels. Make no mistake, hunting a modern submarine is challenging and very dangerous as the submarine is not going to sit and wait to be attacked first. Imagine being in that submarine though.... you know that an acoustic ‘net’ has been deployed as the submarines passive sonar has heard the distinctive ‘plop, plop, plop, of parachute dropped hunter sonobuoys being deployed around your location. You do not know whether the hunter can ‘see’ you with them. These modern hunter sonobuoys are very sophisticated and can identify known target signatures and sounds that are suspicious. They can operate in a matrix comparing their detected anomalies to triangulate target position and likely type. There could be the horrific ‘splash’ sound of a very sophisticated helicopter launched anti-submarine seeker torpedo on the submarines passive sonar, followed by the whine of its turbine as it powers itself towards you using both the location data uploaded to its nav system by the host helicopter and its own on-board seeker systems that can also take real time data from the sonobuoys..... will it hit, or miss ?  Submariners work in tin coffins...... there is no way I would wish to serve on one of them.

So when people say that the EARS units are not necessary in the 21st Century, think again. If a detection system knows the natural sounds of an area of sea and the submarine hunters extract that information from a search area when hunting a target, the target can lose its ‘cloak of invisibility’ provided by its rubber coated hull and low noise, low cavitation propulsion  ;)

Fraser

Edit: this is all unclassified information freely available on the internet and shown to the Public at the Portsmouth Royal Navy Museum and Docks. It is basic acoustics and physics in action and avoiding detection from basic physics based systems can be challenging. If this is what the Military freely release to the public you can be sure that the more sophisticated armed forces of the World have secret submarine detection systems of which we know little, or nothing  ;)

« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 12:59:44 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 01:05:08 pm by Fraser »
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Offline nardevTopic starter

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2020, 01:02:13 pm »
I remember a story that US Navy and perhaps CIA lost a 1bn$ project for listening submarine communication cables in Pacific ocean when some disappointed or simply opportunistic officer gave that information to Russians.

But just a quick Google search gave me impression that it's not that rare to eavesdrop underwater cables :)

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/28/politics/russian-submarine-expansion-atlantic/index.html

Would be nice to see @eevblog Dave teardown video of such a device  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
 

Online Gyro

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2020, 01:02:50 pm »
Coincidentally, fishing is becoming rather lucrative, for some, around the coast of China....   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51130644
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2020, 01:07:17 pm »
There are a lot of UUV’s in the sea these days as well. Some are like sea borne versions of the Drones that patrol the skies above hot spots in the World. Long and reliable missions are possible.

http://iranarze.ir/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/7477-English-IranArze.pdf

Fraser

« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 01:20:46 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2020, 01:09:15 pm »
An interesting article.....

https://physicsworld.com/a/hunting-submarines-from-the-air/


What this story does not cover at the end is the ever present danger, for the hunter, of a sub-surface anti-aircraft missile bursting out of the sea and heading towards them at great speed. Then they are in the hands of the aircrafts sophisticated, but not infallible countermeasures.

From the submarine captains point of view, he/she does not want to advertise their presence or position, but once detected and effectively ‘backed into a corner’ by a sonobuoy net, there are few options other than to fight for survival as even modern submarines cannot outrun a hunter killer aircraft armed with task specific and effective seeking torpedoes. A case of kill or be killed and attempt to blind the hunter.

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 01:15:56 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2020, 02:14:52 pm »
 :-DD
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2020, 02:17:45 pm »
CJay,

The scary thing is that limited yield battlefield nuclear weapons for use by infantry actually exist, but thankfully have never been used.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W54

Demonstration video......

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-is-what-it-looks-like-when-the-worlds-smallest-nuk-1684923814


Fraser
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 02:22:21 pm by Fraser »
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Offline dmills

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2020, 02:32:13 pm »
The Davy Crockett (and the derived SADM) were by all accounts NOT a popular duty, something about the SADM having a 15 minute maximum on the timer and the infantry tasked with deploying the thing reckoning (probably correctly) that under combat conditions that was less then comfortable, particularly when the yield was turned up....

Most of that stuff got killed off by one of the arms treaties (or at least taken and made into a properly black project, possibly more likely).

There was also at least one 110mm artillery shell design with a nuke payload, and there ARE nuclear torpedo heads, for all that the effectiveness is apparently actually rather lower then you would anticipate (But much better in a near miss then a conventional weapon). 

Regards, Dan.
 

Offline iMo

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2020, 03:23:37 pm »
Operation Wigwam - no greedy fishermen around..
PS: I would move this thread to General Chat..

« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 03:32:42 pm by imo »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2020, 06:31:12 pm »
IMO,

Thanks. Fascinating stuff. Love the 1950’s delivery of the commentary and office setting  ;D

Watching this made me think of young children playing with fire crackers ..... scary stuff !

Fraser
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Offline iMo

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Re: Mystery Underwater Device Lost By U.S. Navy in Adriatic Sea.
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2020, 07:40:11 pm »
That movie is one of the more "scientific" oriented, where you get some tangible technical information too.

Readers discretion is advised..
 


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