Need new living room TV, but would a large monitor be better?

[Ed.Kloonk]

Looking for any advice you might be able to offer.

Faithful tired old soldier is ready for a Honourable discharge. A 40" with multiple HDMI inputs, a fairly simple remote and ultra simple UI.

New monitor needs to be at least as big if not bigger.

Viewing position distance is 20 feet.

Inputs are
    Australian Foxtel IQ2* (HDMI + HDCP),
    Plain old digital TV STB (HDMI),
    Linux PC/internet-surf/media-player (HDMI).

Current panel is 720x400 or something so the Linux PC video res has been bastardized to display the desktop and counteract the forced overscan. Would like a bigger screen and obviously more resolution. High frame rate is not a concern as the only gaming is Doom. PC is about to be upgraded to something more powerful to take advantage of a better monitor.

How well can a modern large (non-TV) monitor deal with the HDCP nonsense? Foxtel are about to force their latest box down my throat because reasons.

Want to avoid a smart TV. Too many buttons. Just want a large display that wont keep begging for firmware updates.

What kind of monitor(s) should I look at?

What sort of resolution should the panel have with that viewing distance?

[jonpaul]

monitor and TV are different animals

Do not reccomend mon use as TV or visa versa

j

[Ed.Kloonk]

monitor and TV are different animals

Do not reccomend mon use as TV or visa versa

j

I want the best of both worlds. Tell me why I can't have that.

edit: I wish to expose, examine and weigh up the tradeoffs.

[pcprogrammer]

The benefit of a big TV is that it most likely is cheaper than a monitor of the same size.

If what jonpaul wrote is still valid nowadays I don't know, but it feels like not. There are of course differences in panel type, viewing angles, and what other properties a display has. But both can be on the whole day long if needed.

When you just use it with the HDMI inputs it does not really matter that the TV is "smart". You probably only need a single button on the remote to change the HDMI input anyway. But the newer models might have good response on the smart department and allow browsing the internet or view a movie directly from an USB stick or external drive.

My advise, go to a nearby media store and look around for what TV's they have and play with them a bit.

Edit: Especially high resolution monitors are more expensive, and I think buying a TV that is not 4K becomes harder every day.

[AndyBeez]

There is a convergence between TVs and monitors since the advent of Ultra HD 120Hz 4K sets. They are TVs used as monitors, not monitors used as TVs. Sadly, every TV today has some degree of internet smartness/dependence: Just lock the TV out of the wifi network. Go down town and give 4K OLED TVs a good looking at. Act now, before prices go stupid in 2023.

(Or... see what @eevblog Dave can conjure up for free from a dumpster!)

[tszaboo]

Monitor shouldn't be used as a TV, as TVs do motion smoothing, denoising and other things, that make the image better. Watching anything without motion smoothing on an OLED is like watching someone trying to show you a Zoetrope as a movie.
Similarly, TV shoudn't be used as a monitor, as things like chroma subsampling will make text less eligible.

[NiHaoMike]

Monitor shouldn't be used as a TV, as TVs do motion smoothing, denoising and other things, that make the image better. Watching anything without motion smoothing on an OLED is like watching someone trying to show you a Zoetrope as a movie.

A desktop GPU will do that far better than the GPU built into the TV.

[Berni]

Generally when i use TVs with HDMI input i go trough the settings to make them act more "monitor like". All the enhancements tend to make the picture look worse and sometimes also add huge amounts of input lag. Most images look better when you crank up the saturation and contrast, but it can wreck some of the images that are very vivid to begin with. This is why TVs do that in order to look more impressive on the store shelves. If the movie i am watching was supposed to look that vivid then the original video file would already be that cranked up in saturation. This is especially on modern displays that have the capability to properly cover the extreme corners of the color space, not rely on saturation cranking to mask there inability to reach saturated colors.

The motion thing is a thing of taste. Some people don't notice if a video is playing at 30 or 60 fps. Some love the buttery smooth frame rates. Some film buffs will raise there pitchforks for playing a movie at higher than 24 fps. The film Hobbit was famously released in 48 fps in cinemas and a fair few people didn't like the higher framerate.

At one point i switched my PC from using a CRT to a pretty fast LCD (4ms i think, since i was late on the LCD bandwagon) and it did take some getting used to the "slow" pixels, the fast CRT image seamed better.

Using a monitor as a TV is not that bad of an idea. It is more of a question if you have developed a taste for the image enhancements they do. I generally have not.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Using a monitor as a TV is not that bad of an idea. It is more of a question if you have developed a taste for the image enhancements they do. I generally have not.

The current TV has to rely on some trickery preformed by the Linux video server because the over-scan is not turn off able on the TV. I understand it's a fringe case.

It suppose would be nice to have a TV or monitor that would accept all three device outputs and just display them without all the transforms.

Are there particular brands that aim in that direction or is it pot luck?

[jonpaul]

Rebonjour à tous

Monitors may be optimized for

Professional images video, still photo editing


Gaming...high frame rate

Consumer...Lowest-priced junk

in 2007 we got several Dell U3010 30"

nowadays we use a 38" LG curved wide-screen ( $400 LN off CL)

in Paris found a Samsung curved 27" was €65 on sale

most monitors are under 38" due to desktop confines and close view distance

TV are 40..108" most in the 50...80" range.

Unfortunately the trend is to build in DRM, internet ads, and easy access to paid junk, Netflix, etc

Thus your TV as the contol and sends every keystroke back to China to be mined and sold.

Just load a Blu Ray disc, the TV grabs the latest horrible ads and endless previews

Go to Best buy or Costco and check out the images, garbage ads.

Fin many great sites and forum to review monitor and TVs

Bon courage

Jon

[Berni]

The current TV has to rely on some trickery preformed by the Linux video server because the over-scan is not turn off able on the TV. I understand it's a fringe case.

It suppose would be nice to have a TV or monitor that would accept all three device outputs and just display them without all the transforms.

Are there particular brands that aim in that direction or is it pot luck?

The overscan issues is mostly a thing of the past. If you buy a 1080p TV and feed it a 1080p HDMI signal from a PC you get the image filling the screen perfectly. The one thing that can happen is range clamping where almost black pixels are clamped to black and so graphics cards can be set up to raise the black level to compensate (but if the TV does not clamp it the contrast is wrecked because black becomes very dark gray)

TVs with 3 HDMI inputs are pretty common (monitors not as much tho) and you can disable the image enhancements. Turning on "game mode" tends to drastically improve input latency. Some TVs have a dedicated option for "All enhancement off", on some you just have to put all the enhancement sliders to 0 and on some particularly idiotic TVs (i am looking at you Philips) you have to find the neutral spot on a slider. When setting these things i like to put up some display test patterns so that i can verify the settings being correct.

My favorite TV brand so far is Samsung. They boot up near instantly (while some TVs legit take 20 to 60 seconds to warm boot!) and the menus are intuitive and fast with a neat small simple remote. We replaced the projector at work with a 85 inch Samsung 4K TV and it is awesome.

EDIT: Oh and btw the new big thing with TVs and gaming monitors these days is HDR capability. This can make a big difference for content that was recorded in HDR.

[neil555]

NEC digital signage displays make really nice living room TV's, they are a bit more expensive than most TV's (about £600) but have HDR, local dimming, 3xHDMI inputs and best of all a semi-matte screen.

https://www.sharpnecdisplays.eu/p/eeme/en/products/details/technicaldata/t/large-format-displays/essential-displays/rp/e438.xhtml

[Muttley Snickers]

I can't vouch for them but Aldi have a 65" UHD TV coming up on special for $669 on 24/09/22, they have a 60 day return policy so if you are not happy with it you can take it back.   
Ozbargain Link.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/724658

Aldi had a 40" on special last week so I went to their store to find out how many HDMI, USB and other ports it had, I must have flipped the box upside down ten times trying to find out that basic information and it was nowhere to be found. I didn't buy one out of disgust and they know that people often use that information to find out who made the TV.

A tip if you do decide on a brand, ring their customer support number before the purchase and if they give you the run around like Hisense did to me recently stay the fuck away. Hisense customer support is nonsense, it doesn't exist.

[Haenk]

I went with a 65" 4k LG digital signage/hospitality display. It came at a good price (used) and I wanted 4k and the dumbest onboard electronics as possible (as in: no need to connect to the internet).
Great colors, but the local dimming is annoying on black screens. Doesn't matter when watching movies or gaming though. But unsuited for use as a monitor.

[eugene]

Monitor shouldn't be used as a TV, as TVs do motion smoothing, denoising and other things, that make the image better. Watching anything without motion smoothing on an OLED is like watching someone trying to show you a Zoetrope as a movie.
Similarly, TV shoudn't be used as a monitor, as things like chroma subsampling will make text less eligible.

I regularly stream video (Netflix, Hulu, Tubi) on my laptop and it looks pretty good to me. I would notice if the same content were more smooth on a TV.

FWIW, I stream exactly the same content on TV (through Roku) as on laptop computer. If 4K monitors and TVs use the same panels, then the monitors should be less expensive, but TV's are still way cheaper.

[Berni]

I regularly stream video (Netflix, Hulu, Tubi) on my laptop and it looks pretty good to me. I would notice if the same content were more smooth on a TV.

FWIW, I stream exactly the same content on TV (through Roku) as on laptop computer. If 4K monitors and TVs use the same panels, then the monitors should be less expensive, but TV's are still way cheaper.

A lot of those might already be serving you 60 fps video, so in that case there is not much to smooth, since it is difficult to tell the difference between 60 and higher framerates.

[Halcyon]

I recently spent months looking at a new TV to replace my old, Philips LCD and finally settled on the 195cm (77") Sony A80J. It was a close call between that and the LG C1/C2. The A80K is the new replacement model but is basically the same with some minor changes.

The main reason I chose the Sony was that it runs Google TV (as opposed to WebOS on the LG). The interface is snappy with plenty of configuration options for those who like to tweak the settings. The Sony also supports DTS:X and 5.1 DTS via ARC/eARC, which the LG did not. I primarily use the Plex and YouTube applications to view my content these days (I did away with the discrete Kodi box completely), but you can also get all the usual apps like Netflix, Stan and all the Australian free-to-air streaming platforms from the Google Play store.

I positioned my TV directly opposite a large window and the glare is minimal. It's also perfectly bright enough to overcome the natural light coming in (in fact, I had to dial down the brightness a bit). The picture quality is absolutely phenomenal and even a few months after owning it, I still admire how good it is, especially viewing some of the older SD content. What ever secret sauce Sony use in their image processing, it's second to none.

I found RTINGS.COM to be an excellent source of information as well as side-by-side comparisons in great detail.

My only gripe with the Sony (and indeed many other TVs) is that the wired ethernet connection is only 10/100 Mbps (not gigabit). On some of the very high bitrate 4K content, 100 Mbps is easily saturated and not fast enough to keep up. It does however support 802.11ac, which is much faster than the wired ethernet if you have a decent wireless access point and RF environment.

I have no comments on the built-in speakers as I've never used them. I have it connected to a Sonos Arc soundbar (and associated speakers).

[rdl]

I have a 42" Sanyo that's 8 years old. I play games on it with no complaints. The computer is connected through HDMI. Sound is handled by a separate semi-audiophile system. The TV tuner has never been used because I don't watch conventional TV.

If a TV you're considering has any kind of image enhancement garbage, make sure it can be turned off or set to zero. Go as big as you can. Personally, I can live without 4K because 1920x1080 seems fine on a TV, but with modern TVs I suspect cost is not that different. I don't know, I haven't shopped for a TV lately.

[wraper]

Monitor shouldn't be used as a TV, as TVs do motion smoothing, denoising and other things, that make the image better. Watching anything without motion smoothing on an OLED is like watching someone trying to show you a Zoetrope as a movie.
Similarly, TV shoudn't be used as a monitor, as things like chroma subsampling will make text less eligible.

There will be no chroma subsampling if you don't try to push high refresh rate/resolution signal through an output/input which is not capable to accept such bandwidth (check TV/GPU specs). Chroma subsampling can be done on PC monitors too. Most of the smoothing unless very slight is pukeworthy.

[wraper]

The one thing that can happen is range clamping where almost black pixels are clamped to black and so graphics cards can be set up to raise the black level to compensate (but if the TV does not clamp it the contrast is wrecked because black becomes very dark gray)

Can be an issue with HDMI only, not DisplayPort, and mostly a nonexistent issue with modern hardware. It's a mismatch between dynamic range PC outputs and TV accepts. Can be fixed on PC side https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/. Many TVs have input range setting too, although naming may be obfuscated.

[coromonadalix]

No problems using a tv  for a computer setup,  it even output the hdmi audio stream to the speakers,  no special configs for me

Used the cctune  exe in windows to adjust  displayed characters / some text contrast  etc...  i don't game    but listen tons of movies in 4k  .... on a RTX3060 ..