New Processor Choice

[rrinker]

 For those concerned about upgrading - AMD has already confirmed that the Ryzen 3 (the 5000 series) will once again use the AM4 socket, so no new socket. They aren't like Intel with a new socket for each generation of CPU. The only real limitation on some older AMD motherboards is the BIOS capacity, there just isn't enough memory to store all the possible CPUs, so most manufactures have cut off support of newer chips on older boards. It's still the same physical socket though.
 Zen 3 is still a bit off, so if you are buying today wondering about the next one after that - please. I keep my systems for a rather long time - this one replaced a machine that was nearly 8 years old. I didn't go extreme, it's just a Ryzen 5 3600, but it is way faster than the old Xeon it replaced, and 2 more cores to boot. I still have room to grow if need be, with a different CPU, and I didn't even use the fastest memory, though I do have 32GB as 2x16, leaving me with 2 open DIMM slots as well.

[KungFuJosh]

Yeah, I just looked. There's almost nothing great available, and what is available, costs literally twice as much as non-ECC. $180 and up for 64GB (2x32) non-ECC, or 32GB (1x32) ECC...

Like I said, I hope my ram works for now.

EDIT: The interesting thing is that it doesn't make much of a difference in price whether I do 4x16 or 2x32 to get 64gb. That's kinda convenient.

[KungFuJosh]

Here's a more important question. Are the mods able to swap the 3300X and 3700X positions so the poll looks like a middle finger?

[Halcyon]

Here's a more important question. Are the mods able to swap the 3300X and 3700X positions so the poll looks like a middle finger?

No, not without resetting the stats anyway.

[0db]

I don't understand the IT-world, part #2 

Today the IT guy here is going to replace a couple of these GPUs with something more powerful - he said - and ... emm emm "You look at the K4000? yours for 50 bucks, buddy. I have many HP Z440 to fix today, and I am underpaid for that"

He shouldn't sell corporate stuff in any underground way, but apparently the manager knows about it and nobody cares.

Anyway, what do you think, guys, about the "old" NVIDIA Quadro K4000 ?

[brucehoult]

Top card in 2013. No doubt an entry level card would beat it now.

At least it only uses 80W not a couple of hundred. That's something.

[bd139]

I don't understand the IT-world, part #2 

Today the IT guy here is going to replace a couple of these GPUs with something more powerful - he said - and ... emm emm "You look at the K4000? yours for 50 bucks, buddy. I have many HP Z440 to fix today, and I am underpaid for that"

He shouldn't sell corporate stuff in any underground way, but apparently the manager knows about it and nobody cares.

Anyway, what do you think, guys, about the "old" NVIDIA Quadro K4000 ?

It's normal to skip dive shit. I do it.

Take it, sell it for twice that 

[0db]

Thanks guys 

At least it only uses 80W not a couple of hundred. That's something.

I took a coffee with the IT-guy, and talking about GPUs vs power consumption he said "well, buddy, I also have some Maxwell-2014 K2200, they only eat 68 Watt. Do you want one? it's yours for 100 bucks, buddy"

100 euro [ K2200 Maxwell-2014, 68Watt TDP, 4Gbyte VRAM, 1439 Gflop/s ]
050 euro [ K4000 Kepler-2013, 80Watt TDP, 3Gbyte VRAM, 1244 Gflop/s ]

Both are DirectX v12, OpenGL v4.6, and they look they can be put in the same basket, I am not an expert by any mean, just I don't notice so great differences: ought I infer that is just the less power consumption that justifies more money in his pockets?... Or is there any hidden (for instance Linux better compatibility) reason for this?

I don't actually know if and how much Linux and these two GPUs are friends 

[MK14]

Does he think you don't know much about such cards, and he is 'trying it on', and trying to make as much money from you, by selling any junk stuff he can get his hands on ?

I've seen cards like that, simply included with computer purchases, for little or no, extra cost. Making me suspect they are worth little (in real terms, even if they are sometimes for sale, for larger amounts), and have a number of possible problems. Such as potential lack of modern video output connectors, not supporting modern, higher resolutions, not supporting better games, possibly slightly patchy Linux support issues, relative slowness, compared to modern graphics cards.
I'd aim for 15W, and no more than 25W, if I was trying to get a passively cooled 2D usage, graphics card. Ideally, I prefer to get cpus, with built in integrated graphics, if there is no requirement to play fast/modern games on the machine and/or use the graphics chips for powerful computations.

EDIT:  E.g. The following costs around £55 brand new, uses a maximum of 50 watts (probably a lot less, during normal 2D useage). Has HDMI/DVI and Display port connectors on it, and seems to support up to 4K output resolution. (  https://www.scan.co.uk/products/sapphire-amd-radeon-rx-550-pulse-oc-2gb-gddr5-graphics-card  ).

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-550.c2947

I.e. Probably better in most respects, is brand new, modern, and for almost half the money, of the 100 Euro deal you had on offer. Probably uses a fraction of the electricity, and can support modern resolutions/connectors/compatibility, and to a limited extent, games.

There are probably better examples, because I chose the example quickly.

[KungFuJosh]

I've got the 3900X setup with the Crosshair VIII Hero board. So far it's really nice, but I'm not blown away by the speed yet. I'll see how it goes as I get more work done.

I really like the motherboard a lot. The bios is awesome. My previous MSI board was really nice, but I was never a fan of the bios. With the Asus, it was funny. I was trying to update the bios to the latest version, and it didn't like the file on the flash drive. I finally used the internet option from bios, and it worked fine. I guess it's less work than having to download stuff ahead of time. +1 for laziness.

The one thing I'll say I don't like, Asus included a really shitty antenna for the wifi. the base that holds the antenna is a flimsy piece of shit, and it never worked. I have my Gigabyte antenna connected for now, and it's a much nicer design.

I'm still waiting for the new liquid cooler, I've got it running with the stock cooler for now...and my old PSU. 50C idle isn't horrible for a stock cooler.

[brucehoult]

I've got the 3900X setup with the Crosshair VIII Hero board. So far it's really nice, but I'm not blown away by the speed yet.

Well, yeah.

You said you're coming from an i7-5820K, which is is a Haswell 6 core 3.6 GHz turbo so something with 4.6 turbo is going to be barely noticeable -- and the differences between the CPUs you originally listed would be really imperceptible in general use.

Gains since Sandy Bridge have been very minor. Mostly just more cores and the availability of lower TDP parts that still have excellent performance e.g. my 15W i7-8650U NUC is almost always faster than a 65W i7-6700, but a little slower under heavy load than a 90W i7-6700K.

[KungFuJosh]

I've got the 3900X setup with the Crosshair VIII Hero board. So far it's really nice, but I'm not blown away by the speed yet.

Well, yeah.

You said you're coming from an i7-5820K, which is is a Haswell 6 core 3.6 GHz turbo so something with 4.6 turbo is going to be barely noticeable -- and the differences between the CPUs you originally listed would be really imperceptible in general use.

Gains since Sandy Bridge have been very minor. Mostly just more cores and the availability of lower TDP parts that still have excellent performance e.g. my 15W i7-8650U NUC is almost always faster than a 65W i7-6700, but a little slower under heavy load than a 90W i7-6700K.

Benchmarks claim the 3900X should still see around 30% improvement even in single core. I dunno. What's killing me right now is I hate hearing the CPU fan...unfortunately the new liquid cooler won't be here until next week.

[wraper]

What's killing me right now is I hate hearing the CPU fan...unfortunately the new liquid cooler won't be here until next week.

How about adjusting fan speed settings in BIOS? Also liquid coolers are neither better at cooling than good air coolers, neither more more silent. At the same price point air coolers offer better performance. Box cooler which comes with 3900x is pretty decent already.

[KungFuJosh]

What's killing me right now is I hate hearing the CPU fan...unfortunately the new liquid cooler won't be here until next week.

How about adjusting fan speed settings in BIOS? Also liquid coolers are neither better at cooling than good air coolers, neither more more silent. At the same price point air coolers offer better performance. Box cooler which comes with 3900x is pretty decent already.

I would have to just set it at max, and I have thought about doing that. What annoys me is the inconsistency of the noise level. If it was the same all the time, it would be easy to ignore.

I never heard my previous liquid cooler running. It was very quiet. I'm hoping the new one is too. I bought a Corsair instead, because apparently the new version of the Enermax I had supposedly leaks.

Currently not a problem with the air conditioner running tho.

[wraper]

I would have to just set it at max

Why? Fans on CPU coolers usually have quite high max RPM, way above what's needed even under heavy load.

What annoys me is the inconsistency of the noise level. If it was the same all the time, it would be easy to ignore.

If sound (fan speed) fluctuates rapidly, it means that fan settings are not adequate.

[MK14]

If sound (fan speed) fluctuates rapidly, it means that fan settings are not adequate.

The OP seems to mention a 30% loss in expected benchmark performance. Is the heatsnk on properly, or is the processor getting too hot, throttling back the performance (by say 30% when benchmarking), and making lots of fan noise, in a futile attempt to cool the cpu, if it isn't making good thermal contact with the cpu.
I wonder what the cpu temperature readings are, idling and under load ?

[bd139]

You have to set the fans up properly so there is some positive air pressure. It's not as easy as it looks. Check list:

1. Get a case that has more holes than not holes in it (I like the fractal design meshify as they are wind tunnels) and has a separate shroud for power supply.
2. Front to back airflow for all fans.
3. More fans at the front than the back and fill every position possible with 120mm or larger fans and run them slow.
4. No cables all over the shit. Do a tidy job.
5. Use a big bastard heatsink and fan on the CPU and skip watercooling. Totally not worth it.
6. Set the fans, at least on ASRock on silent and set the sensors to CPU temp.
7. Grab some decent heatsink compound (anything arctic silver does the job)

Testing it with prime95 and using openhardwaremonitor to watch the temperatures. If you establish an issue, go research and fix it

This is a picture of inside my old build as an example with Ryzen 7 3700X in it. I have a newer one with different board, SSD, RAM config and CPU since I built that. Case, fans, HSF and GPU are same though. The heatsink on this weighs a kilogram (Be quiet dark rock slim)

This build is almost 100% silent even with CPU flat out and maintains 65oC CPU temp.

[0db]

@bd139
which is the product name and model of your case?
it really looks interesting and compact 

[KungFuJosh]

I would have to just set it at max

Why? Fans on CPU coolers usually have quite high max RPM, way above what's needed even under heavy load.

What annoys me is the inconsistency of the noise level. If it was the same all the time, it would be easy to ignore.

If sound (fan speed) fluctuates rapidly, it means that fan settings are not adequate.

It's not rapid, it's just inconsistent. I know I'm really ridiculous, but it annoys me.

[bd139]

@bd139
which is the product name and model of your case?
it really looks interesting and compact 

Fractal Design Meshify C Mini. Favourite case so far and they're not overly expensive.

Pictures of mine here: https://imgur.com/a/LNRvCpH

Product link: https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/meshify/meshify-c-mini-dark-tempered-glass/black/

[wraper]

It's not rapid, it's just inconsistent. I know I'm really ridiculous, but it annoys me.

If you can notice the change, it should be happening fast enough. In any case, this does not sound right. Unless you run some stress tests or heavy all core benchmarks, there should be no fan noise at all. And even under tests, only barely noticeable noise. As MK14 said, it could be not only an issue with fan settings but also a physical issue. It's hard to assemble stock AMD cooler improperly but I would not exclude that. Also if some small piece of debris got in between of CPU and cooler, it will totally ruin the heat transfer since there will be a gap between CPU and cooler and thermal paste will not fix that.
Also I would verify if it's really CPU cooler and not that tiny chipset fan.

[bd139]

If it's the stock AMD cooler with the provided sticky blob this is not unusual. First thing I do when I get a new Ryzen is sell the stock cooler on ebay 

[wraper]

If it's the stock AMD cooler with the provided sticky blob this is not unusual. First thing I do when I get a new Ryzen is sell the stock cooler on ebay 

What sticky blob? Wraith Prism comes with a fairly decent thermal paste applied.

[bd139]

The wraith ones are 50/50. Sometimes it's badly applied or the base of the cooler is warped or it has been stored somewhere too hot and goes brittle or it was done on a Friday. They silk-screen it on in the factory by hand.

Edit: this comes from our hardware dude at a local shop I know who has built about 50 of the machines so far and from discovering my first one was slightly warped

[KungFuJosh]

The OP seems to mention a 30% loss in expected benchmark performance. Is the heatsnk on properly, or is the processor getting too hot, throttling back the performance (by say 30% when benchmarking), and making lots of fan noise, in a futile attempt to cool the cpu, if it isn't making good thermal contact with the cpu.
I wonder what the cpu temperature readings are, idling and under load ?

You have to set the fans up properly so there is some positive air pressure. It's not as easy as it looks. Check list:

1. Get a case that has more holes than not holes in it (I like the fractal design meshify as they are wind tunnels) and has a separate shroud for power supply.
2. Front to back airflow for all fans.
3. More fans at the front than the back and fill every position possible with 120mm or larger fans and run them slow.
4. No cables all over the shit. Do a tidy job.
5. Use a big bastard heatsink and fan on the CPU and skip watercooling. Totally not worth it.
6. Set the fans, at least on ASRock on silent and set the sensors to CPU temp.
7. Grab some decent heatsink compound (anything arctic silver does the job)

Testing it with prime95 and using openhardwaremonitor to watch the temperatures. If you establish an issue, go research and fix it

This is a picture of inside my old build as an example with Ryzen 7 3700X in it. I have a newer one with different board, SSD, RAM config and CPU since I built that. Case, fans, HSF and GPU are same though. The heatsink on this weighs a kilogram (Be quiet dark rock slim)

This build is almost 100% silent even with CPU flat out and maintains 65oC CPU temp.

To answer both of you, I've been building computers since the early 1990s, I've got a pretty good idea of what I'm doing.

My idle CPU temp in windows is showing 40C right now in ROG AI bullshit, and goes up to around 52C with a not insane load, with a bunch of browser windows open on 3 monitors running video on two of them, plus a surveillance program monitoring cameras. Motherboard temp staying fairly consistent at 32C. It's pretty damn good for a stock cooler. In fact, I also opened photoshop, and it's still not going above 52C. Mostly fluctuating in the high 40s.

My case is awesome. It's the Corsair Carbide Air 540 High Airflow ATX Cube Case. All the power shit, and external drives are separated from the board and components to keep a better air flow on what matters, and yes, of course the case fans are flowing from front to back. 3 140mm fans. Which are never noisy. I will eventually add a 3rd fan to the front, but I'm in no rush.

My only noise issue is the CPU cooler fan. It stands out because the rest of the computer is very quiet. Don't worry, I have a giant tube of Arctic Silver 5 for when the liquid cooler arrives.

Photo of the current build with stock cooler attached.

Thanks,
Josh