New Processor Choice

[olkipukki]

My only noise issue is the CPU cooler fan.

Just buy a proper CPU fan and forget about that noise 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/21-or-amdintel-under-same-hood/msg2737878/

[bd139]

Holy crap! Added to the furniture shopping list 

[wraper]

To answer both of you, I've been building computers since the early 1990s, I've got a pretty good idea of what I'm doing.
...
My only noise issue is the CPU cooler fan. It stands out because the rest of the computer is very quiet. Don't worry, I have a giant tube of Arctic Silver 5 for when the liquid cooler arrives.

Then why cannot you simply adjust bios settings and not complain about CPU fan noise? Wraith Prism apparently can go up to about 3700 RPM which obviously is noisy. It does not mean it should run at such RPM. IMHO optimum is to run CPU fan at about 700 RPM below 60^oC and gradually increase it's speed till about 75^oC. This way cooling is adequate and it basically always stays silent.

[wraper]

My only noise issue is the CPU cooler fan.

Just buy a proper CPU fan and forget about that noise 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/21-or-amdintel-under-same-hood/msg2737878/

It is a proper CPU fan. It's a PEBKAC.

[KungFuJosh]

Then why cannot you simply adjust bios settings and not complain about CPU fan noise? Wraith Prism apparently can go up to about 3700 RPM which obviously is noisy. It does not mean it should run at such RPM. IMHO optimum is to run CPU fan at about 700 RPM below 60^oC and gradually increase it's speed till about 75^oC. This way cooling is adequate and it basically always stays silent.

I ordered the H115i Platinum at the same time I ordered the other parts. They sent it from a farther warehouse. I have no interest in relying on a stock fan, though it works a lot better than expected.

My only noise issue is the CPU cooler fan.

Just buy a proper CPU fan and forget about that noise 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/21-or-amdintel-under-same-hood/msg2737878/

It is a proper CPU fan. It's a PEBKAC.

You are! My ears working well is not a problem. I'm not going to disable the fans ability to change speed because I hate the noise.

[wraper]

You are! My ears working well is not a problem. I'm not going to disable the fans ability to change speed because I hate the noise.

Who said you should disable any ability?  . Talk about experience of putting computers together, yeah.  There should be at least 3 predefined factory profiles and manual way to adjust fan speed ramp. Motherboard has no way to know what type of CPU cooler you have and how fan reacts to PWM. It's just some default setting which keeps fan speed on higher side.
EDIT: Actually some more expensive motherboards have fan autotuning feature and your likely is one of them. But you should run fan auto-calibration in bios yourself.
EDIT2: And if you are not keen to adjust bios settings, I guess your RAM probably runs at 2133 MHz.

[wraper]

The wraith ones are 50/50. Sometimes it's badly applied or the base of the cooler is warped or it has been stored somewhere too hot and goes brittle or it was done on a Friday. They silk-screen it on in the factory by hand.

Edit: this comes from our hardware dude at a local shop I know who has built about 50 of the machines so far and from discovering my first one was slightly warped

They all are Wraith. 5 types of currently supplied. From small fully aluminium Stealth to quite beefy Prism.

[KungFuJosh]

Who said you should disable any ability?  . Talk about experience of putting computers together, yeah.  There should be at least 3 predefined factory profiles and manual way to adjust fan speed ramp. Motherboard has no way to know what type of CPU cooler you have and how fan reacts to PWM. It's just some default setting which keeps fan speed on higher side.
EDIT: Actually some more expensive motherboards have fan autotuning feature and your likely is one of them. But you should run fan auto-calibration in bios yourself.
EDIT2: And if you are not keen to adjust bios settings, I guess your RAM probably runs at 2133 MHz.

You clearly don't get it. I don't want ANY AUDIBLE CHANGE TO THE FAN. That means that it would have to be set to a specific speed, and not change. But I'm not an idiot, so I'm not going to do that. I already tweaked the profile with the tuner in the bios. I also have my ram set to 2400. 

[bd139]

The wraith ones are 50/50. Sometimes it's badly applied or the base of the cooler is warped or it has been stored somewhere too hot and goes brittle or it was done on a Friday. They silk-screen it on in the factory by hand.

Edit: this comes from our hardware dude at a local shop I know who has built about 50 of the machines so far and from discovering my first one was slightly warped

They all are Wraith. 5 types of currently supplied. From small fully aluminium Stealth to quite beefy Prism.

Yeah they all come off the same line though. Cooler Master make them.

[wraper]

ou clearly don't get it. I don't want ANY AUDIBLE CHANGE TO THE FAN. That means that it would have to be set to a specific speed, and not change. But I'm not an idiot, so I'm not going to do that. I already tweaked the profile with the tuner in the bios.

You clearly don't understand what I said. And don't understand how fan settings work. You probably didn't even go into advanced settings, and stay in EZ mode for dummies. If you properly adjust settings you won't notice the change and most likely won't even hear it. Usually there is even response speed setting. Say you can set that speed ramp happens within 30 seconds gradually, thus becomes not noticeable.

I also have my ram set to 2400

Which BTW sucks and severely affects performance. $380 motherboard and RAM running @ 2400 MHz , LOL  .

[wraper]

Yeah they all come off the same line though. Cooler Master make them.

Nah, there are several suppliers for sure, and coolers are vastly different. Say wraith spire can come from CM or Delta (with annoying motor noise), fans even have different blade count.

[KungFuJosh]

ou clearly don't get it. I don't want ANY AUDIBLE CHANGE TO THE FAN. That means that it would have to be set to a specific speed, and not change. But I'm not an idiot, so I'm not going to do that. I already tweaked the profile with the tuner in the bios.

You clearly don't understand what I said. And don't understand how fan settings work. You probably didn't even go into advanced settings, and stay in EZ mode for dummies. If you properly adjust settings you won't notice the change and most likely won't even hear it. Usually there is even response speed setting. Say you can set that speed ramp happens within 30 seconds gradually, thus becomes not noticeable.

I also have my ram set to 2400

Which BTW sucks and severely affects performance. $380 motherboard and RAM running @ 2400 MHz , LOL  .

You're the dumbest neckbeard I've seen on here. If the fan speed changes, it's an audible change, unless you leave the max speed too low. I can hear it change, maybe you wouldn't, I don't care.

I still have the ram at 2400 because new memory is expensive. I'll get faster ram eventually, but for now, this works, and I don't give a flying fuck about impressing you.

[MK14]

Fans (heatsinks) of this type (fanless, all/fully passive), are completely silent.

https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=347

You can either get one which supports your cpus TDP wattage, or get a slightly less powerful cpu, like a 3700X (TDP drops to 65 Watts, from the 3900X's 105 Watts), or lower the cpus TDP setting (they are often programmable within certain ranges, these days).

[wraper]

You're the dumbest neckbeard I've seen on here.

I can say this about you. Probably not dumbest but close to that.

If the fan speed changes, it's an audible change, unless you leave the max speed too low. I can hear it change, maybe you wouldn't, I don't care.

Adequate fan speed primarily depends on actual CPU temperature. Not simply if you can hear the fan or not. With decent CPU cooler you normally don't need such fan speeds when it becomes significantly audible, certainly not under light loads such as internet browsing or watching video. And as I said, when speed change happens over prolonged time, it's not that noticeable and certainly less annoying unlike when the same change happens over a second or two.

I still have the ram at 2400 because new memory is expensive.

Says someone who blown $380 on mobo instead of $120-150 mobo which would work just as good + better RAM or whatever else.

[KungFuJosh]

Says someone who blown $380 on mobo instead of $120-150 mobo which would work just as good + better RAM or whatever else.

You're what Russia would call a useless idiot.

[KungFuJosh]

Fans (heatsinks) of this type (fanless, all/fully passive), are completely silent.

https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=347

You can either get one which supports your cpus TDP wattage, or get a slightly less powerful cpu, like a 3700X (TDP drops to 65 Watts, from the 3900X's 105 Watts), or lower the cpus TDP setting (they are often programmable within certain ranges, these days).

Sure I could do that, or I could get some of the silent fans from Noctua, or specific fans from Corsair too. But none of that matters since I'm just waiting for the liquid cooler I already ordered, which will get to me on Tuesday. I'm not gonna put any kind of effort into my impatience. I'd leave the air conditioner running straight until Tuesday, but I don't wanna piss off my wife toooooo much.

[brucehoult]

I've got the 3900X setup with the Crosshair VIII Hero board. So far it's really nice, but I'm not blown away by the speed yet.

Well, yeah.

You said you're coming from an i7-5820K, which is is a Haswell 6 core 3.6 GHz turbo so something with 4.6 turbo is going to be barely noticeable -- and the differences between the CPUs you originally listed would be really imperceptible in general use.

Gains since Sandy Bridge have been very minor. Mostly just more cores and the availability of lower TDP parts that still have excellent performance e.g. my 15W i7-8650U NUC is almost always faster than a 65W i7-6700, but a little slower under heavy load than a 90W i7-6700K.

Benchmarks claim the 3900X should still see around 30% improvement even in single core. I dunno. What's killing me right now is I hate hearing the CPU fan...unfortunately the new liquid cooler won't be here until next week.

Right.

So something that takes 1.0 seconds on the old one might take 0.77 seconds on the new one. Or something that takes a minute on the old one might take 46 seconds on the new one.

You are unlikely to notice such a difference without a stopwatch or sitting the two machines next to each other.

[brucehoult]

What's killing me right now is I hate hearing the CPU fan...unfortunately the new liquid cooler won't be here until next week.

How about adjusting fan speed settings in BIOS? Also liquid coolers are neither better at cooling than good air coolers, neither more more silent. At the same price point air coolers offer better performance. Box cooler which comes with 3900x is pretty decent already.

I disagree with this.

Water coolers allow the use of much larger and lower speed fans on a large radiator.

I've got a Corsair Hydro Series H100-110 all-in-one water cooler on my 32 core ThreadRipper 2990wx. It's my first water cooler and by far the quietest computer I've ever owned (especially under full load pulling 375W from the wall) other than the ones that didn't have a fan or hard disk at all.

I was very pleasantly surprised.

[MK14]

Right.

So something that takes 1.0 seconds on the old one might take 0.77 seconds on the new one. Or something that takes a minute on the old one might take 46 seconds on the new one.

You are unlikely to notice such a difference without a stopwatch or sitting the two machines next to each other.

That does matter (improve things), in some cases.
E.g. Games and/or Virtual reality and/or emulating an older computer system, where you want it to run, say x100 times faster, rather than just x70 times faster. E.g. Z80 C/PM emulator.

I.e. The cpu speed could be needed, to keep your modern game, at the correct frame rate, even when being jumped/attacked by lots of monsters/players.

So, if the latest cpu, gives a frame rate of 60 fps, but the slower/old processor can only achieve 41 fps, with the same graphics card. That does matter. There are many other possible examples.

[brucehoult]

Right.

So something that takes 1.0 seconds on the old one might take 0.77 seconds on the new one. Or something that takes a minute on the old one might take 46 seconds on the new one.

You are unlikely to notice such a difference without a stopwatch or sitting the two machines next to each other.

That does matter (improve things), in some cases.
E.g. Games and/or Virtual reality and/or emulating an older computer system, where you want it to run, say x100 times faster, rather than just x70 times faster. E.g. Z80 C/PM emulator.

A 16 MHz 68000 or 80386 can emulate a 1 Mhz 6502 or 4 MHz Z80 machine at full speed, no problems.

A 3+ GHz modern machine doesn't even notice such a task.

So, if the latest cpu, gives a frame rate of 60 fps, but the slower/old processor can only achieve 41 fps, with the same graphics card. That does matter. There are many other possible examples.

30% faster would be 46 FPS vs 60 FPS, not 41.

But in any case game FPS seldom varies much at all with different CPUs, it's all in the GPU.

If you're trying to optimize game performance then spending your money on a 12 core CPU was probably the wrong approach.

[KungFuJosh]

Water coolers allow the use of much larger and lower speed fans on a large radiator.

I've got a Corsair Hydro Series H100-110 all-in-one water cooler on my 32 core ThreadRipper 2990wx. It's my first water cooler and by far the quietest computer I've ever owned (especially under full load pulling 375W from the wall) other than the ones that didn't have a fan or hard disk at all.

I was very pleasantly surprised.

I totally agree! My previous system was dead quiet with the liquid cooler. I'm sure it will be much quieter when then new liquid cooler comes in.

If you're trying to optimize game performance then spending your money on a 12 core CPU was probably the wrong approach.

Not at all, I don't really play games (except Rocksmith sometimes, and that doesn't care at all). I'm hoping to see improved rendering times in video editing, and hopefully some other apps that benefit from the extra cores.

[MK14]

A 16 MHz 68000 or 80386 can emulate a 1 Mhz 6502 or 4 MHz Z80 machine at full speed, no problems.

A 3+ GHz modern machine doesn't even notice such a task.

True. But some emulators are simple/inefficiently written and/or (puns accidental) logic simulator types, coping with ancient discrete logic cpus (e.g. TTL). This can result in poor performance of the emulator, hence the want/need of a faster cpu, usually single thread performance wise.

30% faster would be 46 FPS vs 60 FPS, not 41.

But in any case game FPS seldom varies much at all with different CPUs, it's all in the GPU.

You're right, I did a poor job, with the frame rate estimation.
Too off-topic and OP not interested, so I'll keep it short. As well as the GPU (which is usually the primary factor dictating FPS), the cpu can affect frame rate, especially with some games. So, if too low a FPS is making the gaming experience bad for a particular player. As well as getting a very powerful gaming card, they may also need to get a very fast (especially single thread performance, but enough cores (6+ I guess) with some games as well), cpu. Otherwise, the frame rate can dip, and the picture breaks up (distorts/lags/looks like a slide show), in a way, which annoys some gamers.

[0db]

A 16 MHz 68000 or 80386 can emulate a 1 Mhz 6502 or 4 MHz Z80 machine at full speed, no problems.
A 3+ GHz modern machine doesn't even notice such a task.

A Ryzen5 (6 Cores) @3600 MHz with 32GB 3200MHz DDR4 and Samsung Pro NVMe SSD is not enough to emulate a MIPS R4K@150Mhz system, and you feel the result as "very slow".

[0db]

The binary dynamic translators like Qemu *may* help.

[brucehoult]

A 16 MHz 68000 or 80386 can emulate a 1 Mhz 6502 or 4 MHz Z80 machine at full speed, no problems.
A 3+ GHz modern machine doesn't even notice such a task.

A Ryzen5 (6 Cores) @3600 MHz with 32GB 3200MHz DDR4 and Samsung Pro NVMe SSD is not enough to emulate a MIPS R4K@150Mhz system, and you feel the result as "very slow".

That's pretty poor.

My 4.2 GHz ThreadRipper and 4.2 GHz i7-8650U both do full-system emulation of 64 bit RISC-V in qemu at a speed that feels very similar to if I set the clock speed on my HiFive Unleashed down to 800 MHz (instead of its usual 1.4 GHz)

My own (with Michael Clarke) "RV8" RISC-V emulator runs RISC-V code at the equivalent of around 3 GHz on the same machines. Saly though it's had no work done it it for three years and is more a proof of concept than a useful product. (I'm working on changing that)