OMG this is happening !!! Loongson 3A5000 laptops finally available

[rob77]

you just provided further proof you're not a linux guy... apparently you have zero clue about terminal control characters and the meaning of Ctrl+C

Oh, and what is a "Linux guy"? 

is anyone with a special tattoo tatted on his penis?
is anyone who doesn't drink coffee if he/she doesn't have a cup signed by Linus Benedict Torvalds in person?

Just to say, who cares, enjoy my ignore list 

ahh.. someone got angry 

linux guy is someone using linux.. everyone who is using linux know ctrl+C is used to send the interrupt signal in the terminal (which is a must have, otherwise the terminal is useless).

feel free to ignore me, but i hope my comments motivated you to at least read into the topic so you will learn something

[james_s]

shift + insert to paste into terminal.... if you never used the insert key means you never needed paste into a terminal. so how on earth are you a "experienced linux user" ? sorry...

Crtl-shift-V is how I've always pasted in the terminal, I guess I assumed that's what everyone did. You can also right-click the mouse and select Paste if you're not so into keyboard shortcuts. I didn't know shift-insert would paste, never hurts to learn something new, but I don't see myself using that much, it takes two hands whereas I can crtl-shift-v with only my left hand without moving my palm from the home position.

[DiTBho]

everyone who is using linux know ctrl+C is used to send the interrupt signal in the terminal (which is a must have, otherwise the terminal is useless).

Code: [Select]

edit /root/.Xresources
XTerm*vt100.translations: #override \
    Shift Ctrl <Key> C: copy-selection(CLIPBOARD) \n\
    Shift Ctrl <Key> V: insert-selection(CLIPBOARD)

xrdb -merge ~/.Xresources

Sure, indeed, once again, the arrogance of ignorance is astounding: it's Shift Ctrl C not "Ctrl C", and this is all done using the translations resource override, documented here and here for those who want to read how you can "bind" keys for copy and pasting to and from clipboard to XTerm.

[james_s]

Intel and AMD simply MUST die once and forever, for me it's only garbage and hate. Don't get me wrong, I have to use their shitty architecture because some software is x86-only, but I am not happy when I have to put my money on x86.

Anyway, speaking of why you don't need high computer power under laptop skin (1), when I visited the last hack meeting in Estonia, the best idea ever seen was an optic-fiber KVM in laptop shape. That's the kind of object that really makes sense as "cool thing" that you will also really enjoy use if you are the kind that needs a keyboard and a video with all the computer power (and noise made by computers cooling fans) running somewhere else, remotely.

I tried this for two days, all the computers were 800 meters far, inside a camper, while the KVM-laptop in a tend, and the optic link really thin and light and of the complementary color of the grass so that no one tripped over the cable.

I don't share your love or hate for any particular architecture. x86, AMD, ARM, etc, I don't care, as long as I have the code compiled for whatever platform I'm on then I'm set, I don't care at all how it works internally.

The fiber terminal sounds like a cool hack, but totally useless for day to day use. Why would I want to be tethered to a remote system by an optical fiber when I can have a standalone laptop capable of operating completely wirelessly? I move around the house with my laptop, I toss it in my pack and take it to the office, I go to a friend's house, I take it on vacation and use it to watch movies. Sometimes I work on projects when I'm out and about with no internet access. This is IMO far superior to being physically tied to a server. I see absolutely no value in that beyond "look at this novel thing I built because I can" which is of course a perfectly valid reason for doing something. It's in a similar class as V8 powered lawnmowers and super powerful LED flashlights.

[DiTBho]

I don't care, as long as I have the code compiled for whatever platform I'm on then I'm set, I don't care at all how it works internally.

Yup, you see a computer like a tool, like the hammer or the screwdriver; I also see some computers like tools (e.g. my intel mac-mini hosts a website, and I don't are it's an intel core2), but sometimes I like to go to the ISA side, and then to the assembler side, and here it's where love/hate makes sense.

When you write a compiler for an architecture, it's when love/hate makes sense, and for sure I won't for sure make a compiler for x86, not even if paid a fortune.

I wrote a C-like compiler for MIPS4++ (R18200, it's a prototype), I think I can adapt it for MIPS64 in three months or less, so you can understand why a MIPS64-laptop would make me very very happy

[DiTBho]

The fiber terminal sounds like a cool hack, but totally useless for day to day use. Why would I want to be tethered to a remote system by an optical fiber when I can have a standalone laptop capable of operating completely wirelessly?

an operating system like Linux consumes much more energy than a simple firmware, it's more vulnerable to attacks, it's more complex, and it takes more time to bootstrap, not mentioning that RDP is ok when it stays alone, VNC is also ok when it stays alone, but since exporting x11 has a lot of latency, you have to combine X11 + VNC, or X11 + RDP, and this frankly sucks from the design point of view.

The fiber terminal, on the contrary, is basically a fast MPU @400Mhz with some dedicated ASIC chip for the optic line and for the video encoding/decoding, it has only one protocol, the digital flow is hw encrypted (it should be two-fish), it's safe, simple design and insanely fast.

The battery-charge lasts more than 40 hours! And the kvm-laptop itself is very very light, quite, and it's never even lukewarm!

Plus, it really looks "cyberpunk", which brings us to a matter of tastes, but for sure I don't like wireless stuff because we are too plenty of antennas, not mentioning that wifi needs stronger encryption and - again - more complexity to manage it.

A Fiber glass cable is what I'd like to plug into a laptop because it's fast and immune to electromagnetic issues! Unfortunately we don't have anything but ... copper Ethernet, and on Laptop like the Teres1 (but also on my old Carbon X11) you don't have nothing but the WiFi, which is buggy on the Teres1, and doesn't work with modern kernels ... that's an other reason why I don't like WiFi-stuff: a lot of WiFi-drivers are full of binary blobs and issues, starting from the calibration data which I've always found incorrect in every single card I've ever gotten my hands (last one ... the Allwinner WiFi module) and need weeks to be solved.

Oh, and on tini SBCs like the WR703 we have bugs like ... the WiFi antenna causes interference with the EHCI module. It got discussed for six months on the OpenWRT forum with the conclusion: accept it, it cannot be fixed, it's an hardware bug, disable the wifi if you want to use the EHCI, which was a FSKSHT, because, in the meantime, I had ported XINU to that SBC!

So, you get the point: I have also always been very unlucky with WiFi stuff 

[james_s]

Yes, I mean it's COOL, but that doesn't make it useful. I don't want to plug a laptop into anything, I want it to be completely wireless, that's the best benefit of a laptop. If I'm tethered to a desktop I may as well just sit at the desk. Maybe back in the 90s this would have been great, a feather light portable terminal that only needs a single fiber connection but today I can have all the power and storage I need right inside the laptop and I can dispense with the server entirely. Granted I still use servers all the time, we call it the internet, but I can connect to those from anywhere with a range of different interfaces. I'm a big fan of novel projects like that, they're totally neat and creative, but that doesn't make them useful.

[brucehoult]

Sure, indeed, once again, the arrogance of ignorance is astounding: it's Shift Ctrl C not "Ctrl C", and this is all done using the translations resource override, documented here and here for those who want to read how you can "bind" keys for copy and pasting to and from clipboard to XTerm.

I think it's (past) time to give it up. The guy is either a halfwit who has painfully learned *some*thing and thinks he knows *every*thing, or else a simple troll.

[james_s]

You don't need to bind anything at all, at least not on Mint. Shift-Crtl-C and Shift-Crtl-V work exactly like Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V do on Windows, right out of the box.

[DiTBho]

You don't need to bind anything at all, at least not on Mint. Shift-Crtl-C and Shift-Crtl-V work exactly like Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V do on Windows, right out of the box.

It's not magic, it depends on how things are configured.

e.g. one day you need to use xterm on MobaXterm(1), and you find that Shift-Crtl-C and Shift-Crtl-V do not work. How to solve it? ...

That's it 


(1) MobaXterm is a single Windows application for remote computing, it provides all the important remote network { SSH, X11, RDP, VNC, FTP, ...} things, but the X11 vt translations resource has a configuration that doesn't bind  Shift-Crtl-C and Shift-Crtl-V.

OK, on Windows you can still use native Windows clipboard functions, hence mouse.R->menu(copy) and mouse.R->menu(paste).

Just in case, the lines I posted bind keys.

[DiTBho]

but that doesn't make it useful [..] but that doesn't make them useful.

it's not useful for you, it's very useful for Ania an me 

Concerning security, a couple of the Estonian Hack meeting talks were about demonstrating how and why Wired networks are inherently more secure than wireless networks.

Since the *channel* is a radio link, security is a major drawback for many wireless networks, indeed two talks demonstrated that even if you use sufficient security measures, including strong network passwords, your wireless network is still vulnerable to hijacking or interception by a determined hacker.


Ania is the an hacker who made the kvm-laptop. She is a pretty Estonian girl with weird-colored hair (purple on blonde) but with very clear ideas concerning her hack.

When I asked her - what are the benefits of a kvm-laptop? - she immediately replied - I made it for my personal needs and fun, but the first three that come in mind ... umm - she moved her wrist, like when you are going to count something with your fingers - first, reduced cost - up her index finger - second, increased security - up her middle finger -  and third, more efficient battery and I can make it splash, water and dust proof - up her ring finger.

I don't count things starting from the index finger, I am used to start from the thumb, anyway she was clear.

When she talked about security, she meant unauthorized accesses are harder than on WiFi due to the physical optical link, the laser and the photo-detector that immediately triggers an error if the cable gets unplugged (here we are talking about *paranoia*, but "man in the middle"? attackers can forget it), and, since there is no USB-port, data can’t be copied or saved anywhere except for the remote server.

Also, system monitoring and management are both easier based on the centralized server location.

[SiliconWizard]

Concerning security, a couple of the Estonian Hack meeting talks were about demonstrating how and why Wired networks are inherently more secure than wireless networks.

Does that even really need a demonstration?

[Bassman59]

Yeah, I personally never use the Caps Lock or Insert keys whatsoever except when I accidentally hit them, to get back to the normal state.

I'm a long-time emacs user. The work machine is a Windows box and the home machines are Macs.

Mac keyboards have not had an insert key for many years. Why? I have no fucking idea.

In emacs, the Insert key toggles overwrite mode. That's the same behavior as in Notepad++ and Eclipse. I go between those modes all the time. This drives me bonkers on the Mac. If use a Windows keyboard with an Insert key, the right codes are sent, so that works.

Word and Atom do not pay attention to the Insert key. Nor does the editor built into ModelSim. Nor does Thunderbird's editor. I could check more editors, but you get the point.

Maybe it's because I'm not a great typist. Maybe it's because sometimes the overstrike mode is just really convenient. Think about having a block of hex words in a text document that you want to update. Overstrike is your friend!

Anyway, grumble moan complain.

[rsjsouza]

I am also a big fan of the hexa-cluster of keys (PgUp/PgDn,Home/End,Ins/Del) and really miss them on the keyboards that do not feature it, such as the Mac systems. I also extensively use the CapsLock/NumLock (useful for the long streams of part numbers) and the PrtScr for the occasional screenshot (especially with Screenpresso or other screen capture SW). So I guess this puts me in the weirdo corner... 

[DiTBho]

New Russian laptops by Bitblaze: rumors about the pre-production of Bitblaze Titan BM15 laptop based around the Baikal-M1 processor designed in Russia.

The notebook is designed primarily for government agencies and enthusiasts, according to rumors it will likely enter mass production in November.

[DiTBho]

It's an Arm-Based Homegrown SoC, Cortex A57 with 8 cores

[SiliconWizard]

And that said, while fiber is great and I would also like to see it more often directly on PC motherboards and laptops, there's a reason why Ethernet still prevails: it's cheaper, takes less space and draws less power. While the two last points do not matter a lot for desktop motherboards, they definitely do for laptops.

[DiTBho]

Yeap, the laser eats more power.

Unfortunately neither the Russian laptop has any optic fiber.

[DiTBho]

About the New Russian laptops by Bitblaze, see here (English article)

and here (Russian website)

BITBLAZE Titan BM15 specifications:
SoC – Baikal-M1, BE-M1000, 28nm manufacturing process
Core - octa-core Cortex-A57 processor, 1.5 GHz with Arm Mali-T628 GPU
System Memory – 16GB RAM, SO-DIMM DDR4 sockets
Storage – 250 to 512GB M.2 SSD
Display – 15.6-inch IPS touchscreen display with 1920×1080 resolution
Video Output – 1x HDMI port
Audio – 3.5mm audio jack
Camera – Front-facing webcam
Ethernet RJ45 port ( nice to have )
WiFi and Bluetooth
USB – 4x USB 3.0 ports, 1x USB Type-C port
Battery – 6,000 mAh good for about 5 hours ( )
Weight – 2.2kg

[DiTBho]

[SiliconWizard]

About the New Russian laptops by Bitblaze, see here (English article)

and here (Russian website)

BITBLAZE Titan BM15 specifications:
SoC – Baikal-M1, BE-M1000, 28nm manufacturing process
Core - octa-core Cortex-A57 processor, 1.5 GHz with Arm Mali-T628 GPU
System Memory – 16GB RAM, SO-DIMM DDR4 sockets
(...)

Yeah, the processor itself doesn't seem very impressive. Basically something you'd find on a cheapish SBC.

[DiTBho]

The chassis looks interesting, and well designed.
The electronic not so much, at least the Power-managment needs to be improved.

But, it's the first Russian SoC, that's the impressive news

[SiliconWizard]

Would be more impressive if the SoC was not ARM-based.

[brucehoult]

Would be more impressive if the SoC was not ARM-based.

They do obviously have their Elbrus SoCs too. I have an account on one:

Code: [Select]

brucehoult@sumireko:~$ uname -a
Linux sumireko 5.4.0-5.4-e8c2 #1 SMP Sun Jul 31 04:56:53 MSK 2022 e2k E8C2 Elbrus-MCST GNU/Linux
brucehoult@sumireko:~$ head /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : Elbrus-MCST
cpu family : 5
model : 9
model name : E8C2
revision : 2
cpu MHz : 1550
bogomips : 3100.00
brucehoult@sumireko:~$ grep processor /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
processor : 1
processor : 2
processor : 3
processor : 4
processor : 5
processor : 6
processor : 7
brucehoult@sumireko:~$

AMA

[DiTBho]

They do obviously have their Elbrus SoCs too

Baikal and Elbrus-based systems are kind of "Soviet" computers not (yet) commercially available because made for Russian government agencies and government-controlled companies.

MCST can develop CPUs that are good enough for Open-office workloads, but they are nothing special from the performance and power efficiency points of view; nothing brilliant, the "gain" for them is that such systems may well be deployed by governments that can pay extra to support domestic CPU developers and not use foreign technologies.

At some point in the future, MCST's Elbrus processors will get so significantly faster than they are today that Russian companies will bring them to the market, at the moment is more a matter of "Technology independence", which is always something good.

Baikal-M1 is ARM-based, not brilliant, but already announced to be available on demand for the market outside Russia, which is the *great news* considering the context!

.... In Europe, well ... I don't know, I'm still depressed by the shocking news that, once again, the guys at CERN made the big mistake of all time and turned down IBM donations of POWER10 machines in return of a common sense advertising.

So, CERN still mostly uses x86 ....... and also NASA is full of intel and AMD x86 computers (they say better ratio performance/cost ... so they say), while the luckiest ones are American government agencies, who have POWER9-10-11 and AIX for their business, and among them, Guys at CIA are very lucky because they the new POWER11 workstations on their desks, which, off course, was not the kind offered to CERN, neither is the kind you can "import" from the US.

That's called "technological supremacy", it's when you are so jealous of your gear that you won't sell it abroad.

Japan, China and Taiwan have similar super-jealous-stuff.

-

Anyway, what would make me happy, in this order
- Estonian citizenship (Ania's world is so tempting)
- lot of belarusian-soda in my fridge (too delicious)
- a laptop(1) with MIPS64 or RISC-V, because !YeS!
- bonus+=1000 points: with an HHKB-like kb layout
- bonus+=100000 points: with an optic link (pleaZe)


(1) Elbrus processors are based on a VLIW-like architecture, and there is nothing more I hate in the world, after x86, than the VLIW architecture

• Baikal-M1 laptop: yes, please
• Elbrus laptop: thanks, but no!