Author Topic: Parallel port from docking station  (Read 7406 times)

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Offline Psi

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2024, 10:09:39 am »
What version of windows are you trying on this laptop with docking station?

If you know the app worked in XP on that other older laptop maybe you should try a win XP install on this new one.

If it works at least it proves that the app can work on this laptop. Then you can continue trying to get it working with a newer OS but you will have the knowledge that it is at least possible.

It's always good to isolate and rule out problems when there are multiple possible problems.
Right now you have
1) Does the app only work in some OS versions.
2) Is the LPT port on this laptop even ok, maybe the port has been blown up. Can you test it with a printer or something? LPT ports can fry sometimes due to ESD and voltage potential between the grounds of each device when plugged together with the power on.
3) Bios sections
4) Is the docking station itself ok.
5) Drivers, maybe there is some special driver that was installed on that old laptop that made it work but not installed on this new laptop with docking station. How did you get the app onto the newer laptop, did you install it or just copy across the exe files and/or folder?
6) Are you using exactly the same external equipment when you got it working on the older laptop, was it the same LPT cable?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2024, 10:23:04 am by Psi »
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Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2024, 01:10:10 pm »
On this laptop it has W10.

Would trying XP on a virtual machine work?

The docking station so far as I know is new old stock.

I'm using the same version of WinLV for the Micromaster, installing it the same way, the test equipment and cable are the same.
 

Online Gyro

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2024, 09:13:20 pm »
The WinLV S/W  lists Win 9x / NT4 (SP1 upwards) in the OS requirements. It's very unlikely that such old S/W would work correctly with the Parallel port under W10. It might work on XP, but as mentioned previously mentioned in the thread, there were significant differences in direct parallel port access between W98 and XP so it's not certain. Can you maybe try installing XP to a USB stick and booting it (ok, slowly) from there?

EDIT: It looks as we are re-covering the same ground as was covered in your thread back in August/September, which is a rather frustrating! https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micromaster-lv48/
« Last Edit: November 19, 2024, 09:27:34 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2024, 08:09:05 am »
It does work on XP, as mentioned earlier, the laptop I have at home it works with and that's XP.

I don't think we're covering old ground, as now I'm looking at an alternative with a more modern laptop and a docking station. That other thread, there's probably an issue with the parallel port in the Boardmaster, but since I soon knew the Micromaster was working, I stopped trying with the Boardmaster as I don't want to have to use the Boardmaster for it.

The reason I'm doing so, is the other laptop at work which I can have as they are scrapping loads of old laptops, it's a lot faster and more modern. My old laptop is quite slow, hence the IDE/SATA adaptor question in another thread.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 08:12:52 am by Squarewave »
 

Online Gyro

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2024, 09:05:52 am »
Ah ok. It wasn't clear to me that this thread was about getting the Micromaster working on the  LPT rather than the (faulty looking) Boardmaster in the previous thread.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2024, 09:21:51 am »
Ok, well I don't remember the boardmaster being mentioned here until now, so no idea how that ever caused confusion. The thread is titled and starts off talking about a Dell laptop and a docking station.

Anyway, it was just an idea since a load of docking stations were found in a cupboard at work, all new and boxed, along with the pile of Dell Latitudes due for being scrapped. All's not lost though if I can't get it to work, as I can keep hold of the laptop at work for personal projects.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2024, 09:49:46 am »
You could try giving a XP32 VM a go. but I think the likelihood that the LPT communication will pass through the VM correctly is low.
Using a VM will at least allow the app to run in a windows environment it expects. And it is possible that the app does use proper windows API calls for LPT access. If that's the case you might have a chance that the data will pass through the VM correctly.


Assuming the app is not using the win API and instead writing direct to hardware registers. There's probably some hackery that could be done running win98 inside dosbox emulator all running under win10 and re-routing the hardware LPT port register data somewhere else.
But that is pretty advanced.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 09:55:54 am by Psi »
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Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2024, 10:09:06 am »
I could certainly give it a go. I'll remove the SSD and put it to one side and put another one in which I have, where I can put XP on it and give it a go, something well worth trying. That way we can rule out the OS entirely.

Shame I left the Dell at work and I'm not going in until Friday, otherwise I could have had a go at home in the evenings.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2024, 10:13:08 am »
Its definitely better to try installing XP naively if you can.   
Use 32bit XP,  it's more likely to work for this than 64bit XP.   (A lot of older windows features broke or changed when they went to XP64)
Might be work looking to see if dell offer any XP drivers for that laptop.
Even if they don't it may still install, but wont be very fast without the chipset drivers, and maybe stuck at 640x480

You may run into an issue where you need to put the motherboard IDE/SATA driver DLL/.inf onto a usb stick and press i think F6 during the installer setup to get the XP installer to detect that you have a HDD.   but hopefully it will just work fine without that. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 10:17:46 am by Psi »
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Online MarkL

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2024, 02:50:10 pm »
The Dell M4400 with docking station that I mentioned is running Linux.  The GALEP-4 programmer software is windows based, and runs fine under wine with a minor configuration change in the registry to allow it to access the native parallel port at 0x378.

FYI, in case you want to try Linux instead of windows.

Or even just run a Live-DVD version to see if it finds a real parallel port.  The results of the parallel port probe at boot time is viewable with the "dmesg" command.  If you don't have a real parallel port, it won't be there.

  # dmesg
  ...
  pnp 00:09: Plug and Play ACPI device, IDs PNP0501 (active)
  pnp 00:0a: [dma 1]
  pnp 00:0a: [irq 7]
  pnp 00:0a: [io  0x0378-0x037f]
  pnp 00:0a: [io  0x0778-0x077b]
  ...
  parport_pc 00:09: reported by Plug and Play ACPI
  parport0: PC-style at 0x378 (0x778), irq 7 [PCSPP,TRISTATE]
  ...
  ppdev: user-space parallel port driver
  ...

 

Offline Postal2

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2024, 08:59:24 pm »
... Use 32bit XP,  it's more likely to work for this .....
What would you recommend if the program freezes under winXP32 (when trying to connect to the device)? At the same time, it works perfectly under Windows 98 (screenshots). Access to ports is open under wxp, the computer is the same (choice when loading). Photo of the device below.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2024, 02:45:10 am »
... Use 32bit XP,  it's more likely to work for this .....
What would you recommend if the program freezes under winXP32 (when trying to connect to the device)? At the same time, it works perfectly under Windows 98 (screenshots). Access to ports is open under wxp, the computer is the same (choice when loading). Photo of the device below.

Have you also tried both the following

-  Run the app in administrator mode,  I think that's a tickbox in the properties of the exe in XP, you might have to google ive forgotten.
and
-  Run the app in Win98 compatibility mode, again in properties of the exe somewhere.

If that doesn't work, I would then wonder if maybe access to hardware ports isn't actually open. I know you say you've enabled that but have you confirmed it's actually working?

Which way did you open hardware port access up?, there were a few ways people did it. some more hacky than others.
It always used to be a bit flaky to get working, and who knows if it even still works on the latest version of XP with all security updates and service packs applied 

Maybe write a simple C or QBasic app to send 0 and 255 to 0x378 and check if the LPT data pins all change state with a DMM.
ChatGPT should be able to help with that if you're not a coder.
Qbasic is probably easier since you dont have to compile anything, just run qbasic.exe, enter code and select run/start.
I think for Qbasic the only command you need to write out a hardware address for LPT1 data port would be
OUT &H378, 255

If you can't get that to toggle LPT pins you cant expect the app to work.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2024, 03:04:29 am by Psi »
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Offline Postal2

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2024, 10:44:50 am »
.... ChatGPT should be able to help with that if you're not a coder. ....
I heard that he gives good advice to dumb people who can't do anything.
I tried the port tester (attached), but it was no success.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2024, 11:26:38 am »
.... ChatGPT should be able to help with that if you're not a coder. ....
I heard that he gives good advice to dumb people who can't do anything.

It's fine for really simple stuff.
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Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2024, 08:05:55 pm »
I'll have a go at some command prompt commands and maybe some software over the weekend. I can create a bootable USB stick and try something in Linux to try also.
 

Offline Dave Wise

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2024, 09:24:44 pm »
Old-time BIOS engineer here.
For what it's worth, the T61 Thinkpad has PCI and I think LPC on the docking connector.
More generally, any dock that requires an "eject" negotiation with the OS is almost certainly PCI/LPC, and it may give you a real parallel port.  Newer docks are USB and so on: protocols that tolerate surprise disconnect.
 

Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2024, 05:17:35 am »
Well even USB has an 'eject' which we're supposed to do before removing a device.
 

Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2024, 11:18:34 am »
So, the parallel port as we know isn't working as it should under W10.

I've been trying to install XP, but I cannot get it to boot from the USB with an XP ISO, something to do with UEFI and even in legacy mode it just won't boot.

I can get Linux Mint to boot up from the USB, so I need to be sure Mint supports parallel ports, then I could try a virtual machine and XP in that if it'll let me.

Though, I know that a little while ago, parallel port support has been removed from VMware.
 

Offline mqsaharan

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2024, 12:29:50 pm »

I've been trying to install XP, but I cannot get it to boot from the USB with an XP ISO, something to do with UEFI and even in legacy mode it just won't boot.


You can try Windows XP Integral Edition. It boots from USB/thumb drive and works great.
https://zone94.com/downloads/software/operating-systems/123-windows-xp-professional-sp3-x86-integral-edition
 

Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2024, 06:49:44 pm »
Will that work on a UEFI computer?
 

Offline mqsaharan

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2024, 04:43:56 am »
Will that work on a UEFI computer?

I just tested it on my Thinkpad W530. I adjusted the bios for Legacy Only. And it worked like a charm which you can see in the attached pictures. I cannot install it on my computer because of the way I have set it up. But I know it is a supported OS on my system and Lenovo has provided all the necessary drivers for it.
I made a USB key using Rufus in windows.

That iso is a clean Windows XP with added service pack and updates and some software removed from it. I am already using it in my Thinkpad X61s. The downloadable file from the website is a zip file containing both the windows xp iso and an additional goodies iso. Only WinXP iso is bootable.

I am also pasting here the Readme.txt file from this iso. It has the details of updates installed and software removed by the people who prepared it. The additional applications listed there are not preinstalled. It gives you a choice, instead, during installation or you can install them later.
All these details are also present on the website I linked in my previous message.
 

Offline elektryk

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2024, 06:36:37 am »
I can confirm that LPT works ok with PR02X docking station and Latitude E6540.
 

Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2024, 07:59:20 am »
I can confirm that LPT works ok with PR02X docking station and Latitude E6540.

Which OS?
 

Offline SquarewaveTopic starter

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2024, 08:00:41 am »
Will that work on a UEFI computer?

I just tested it on my Thinkpad W530. I adjusted the bios for Legacy Only. And it worked like a charm which you can see in the attached pictures. I cannot install it on my computer because of the way I have set it up. But I know it is a supported OS on my system and Lenovo has provided all the necessary drivers for it.
I made a USB key using Rufus in windows.

That iso is a clean Windows XP with added service pack and updates and some software removed from it. I am already using it in my Thinkpad X61s. The downloadable file from the website is a zip file containing both the windows xp iso and an additional goodies iso. Only WinXP iso is bootable.

I am also pasting here the Readme.txt file from this iso. It has the details of updates installed and software removed by the people who prepared it. The additional applications listed there are not preinstalled. It gives you a choice, instead, during installation or you can install them later.
All these details are also present on the website I linked in my previous message.

I'll try it later on today if I get time. If it's legacy boot, then it may not work for me as for some reason when my laptop is set for legacy, it just doesn't work. I suspect I'll give up soon, but I'll give this a try first.
 

Offline elektryk

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Re: Parallel port from docking station
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2024, 10:48:19 am »
I can confirm that LPT works ok with PR02X docking station and Latitude E6540.

Which OS?

W7 on host and XP in VM.
 


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