Rasberry PI and clones as industrial SBC's?

[nctnico]

It depends on your particular bootloader. We are talking embedded systems, don't forget, and not your average PC. Something has to start the OS load from whatever storage it is on, and that something is usually your bootloader. It will be specific to your system, not the OS.

Well... even an OS on a PC is booted through a bootloader (like Grub for Linux) and you can modify the open source ones. On a PC it is not the BIOS which loads the OS; the BIOS loads an OS loader. On an embedded system it works in a similar way where a low-lever ROM routine probes/accesses various storage devices to look for a bootloader which then gets started.

[rx8pilot]

It depends on your particular bootloader. We are talking embedded systems, don't forget, and not your average PC. Something has to start the OS load from whatever storage it is on, and that something is usually your bootloader. It will be specific to your system, not the OS.

Well... even an OS on a PC is booted through a bootloader (like Grub for Linux) and you can modify the open source ones. On a PC it is not the BIOS which loads the OS; the BIOS loads an OS loader. On an embedded system it works in a similar way where a low-lever ROM routine probes/accesses various storage devices to look for a bootloader which then gets started.

It seems like it would be easier to have an external MCU that is connected to the console serial port of the RPi hardware to monitor system status. If it fails to boot - the MCU could manage a recovery routine. Perhaps shutting down the RPi, cloning a read-only image to the system storage and rebooting the RPi. At least the designer would have total control over the process.

[daveyk]

The single board computers, other than an ETX form factor, I am thinking of, are a full-length or 3/4 length card, and plug in to a backplane in order to access the PCI/ISA buses and cards plugged in to those busses.  Typically, they must be capable of running Windows XP 32 bit SP3, or Windows 7 Pro 32 Bit.  Few SBC systems in industry, assuming not connected to the network, run Windows 10.  In fact, there are still a lot of SBCs out there still running Windows 98SE, or older.   So, no, I do not see how a Rasberry pi could replace the typical SBC in the majority of industrials environments.

If you are thinking of a Pi replacing a PLC, you might be able to do that, but acceptance might be an issue.  PLCs are good for maintenance as most electrical maintenance guys can hook their laptop up to the PLC and trouble-shoot the input signals and the output signals of the PLC via ladder logic.  I doubt there are many out there in a factory that could handle trouble-shooting in Python, let alone make minor code changes.

[nctnico]

It depends on your particular bootloader. We are talking embedded systems, don't forget, and not your average PC. Something has to start the OS load from whatever storage it is on, and that something is usually your bootloader. It will be specific to your system, not the OS.

Well... even an OS on a PC is booted through a bootloader (like Grub for Linux) and you can modify the open source ones. On a PC it is not the BIOS which loads the OS; the BIOS loads an OS loader. On an embedded system it works in a similar way where a low-lever ROM routine probes/accesses various storage devices to look for a bootloader which then gets started.

It seems like it would be easier to have an external MCU that is connected to the console serial port of the RPi hardware to monitor system status. If it fails to boot - the MCU could manage a recovery routine. Perhaps shutting down the RPi, cloning a read-only image to the system storage and rebooting the RPi. At least the designer would have total control over the process.

That depends on whether the RPi's processor has some ways to recover internally (like a bootloader which can start from several different media). Otherwise you'll need external intervention indeed.

[MarkR42]

Absolutely yes. Use a Pi as an industrial computer.

I've seen stuff fail in industry. I've seen stuff work in industry. It seems semi-random what works and what fails.

By all means, try to make a "hardened" version of the Raspberry Pi - lots of companies make them - for your application. It will make it more robust but it doesn't guarantee anything.

But nor does buying a super-expensive industrial PC.

With the position of RaspberryPI in the embedded computing space at the moment, they are a sure choice. Their firmware updates happen, their new revisions are released, and there is heaps of community support (and professional, should you need it).

No other vendor has *anywhere* near as many units in the field. That alone has something to commend it.

I certainly wouldn't trust most of the "Pi wannabe" boards, because although they often tout good hardware specs, they're "here today, gone tomorrow". Pi is here to stay, and the RPF has a good attitude to supporting older models.

Loads of people like to complain about Pi, the hardware, the foundation, the "it's not as open-source as I'd like", but honestly, I think it's a good thing that we have something like this to make a standard for cheap embedded systems.

So your choice- buy an embedded PC from a big vendor for 10x more than a Pi, with worse long-term support, or get a Pi and know that it will still be around for a number of years, and you have enough budget to have several spares in the store room. The Pi device might fail, but the Foundation and the community probably won't.

[grifftech]

smartphone with custom os and power supply