Small format mini PC's

[raptor1956]

I'm thinking about getting a mini PC that I can more easily take with me in a car but has the power to do 4K video editing (HEVC), 2D/3D CAD, and some gaming.  I'm not a big gamer, but I want to be able to run MS Flight Simulator 2020 and Kerbal Space Program 2 and not be complaining about the experience.

One box that looks promising is the MINISFORUM Neptune Series HX99G Mini PC with AMD Ryzen 9 6900HX (8C/16T up to 4.9Ghz) processor as well as an AMD Radeon RX 6600M(GDDR6 8G) Discrete Graphics card.  The CPU uses DDR5 and the GPU GDDR6) -- I realize it isn't going to match a high end dedicated gaming PC with multi-thousand dollar GPU, but full sized PC's are not really practical to transport in a hatchback.

Anyone care to comment about this box or about mini PC's in general?


Thanks,

Brian

[rdl]

It looks pretty nice actually. From reviews I read the performance is right up near the Intel NUC 12, which is about as good as it gets for this type of computer.

[nomead]

There's not much competition in HX-class CPU's. I would be very curious if USB4 ports in this machine support PCIe passthrough for eGPUs.
Intel's NUC12 or NUC13 support Thunderbolt guaranteed, if you ever need more graphics power.
Based on reviews Minisforum looks quite decent brand though.

[n4u]

Did u ever used minipc under heavy load ? They are workings like hair dryers

[mapleLC]

Did u ever used minipc under heavy load ? They are workings like hair dryers

LOL.  Noctua is your friend.

[raptor1956]

I think I'll pick one of these soon, but I'd still like to know if it is capable of running MS Flight Simulator 2020 (with updates) and Kerbal Space Program 2 at decent res and detail settings.  Also related to this is the sweet spot for RAM -- the basic model I'm looking at is 32GB RAM and 1TB M.2 SSD and while that 'should' be enough I wonder what benefit there might be upgrading to 64GB.  A larger faster SSD would also be desirable.  They do offer a barebones version where you add RAM and storage and, I think, the OS, but such an approach tends to be more expensive.

I also need to pick up some game controllers for flight sims.  I'm thinking about the Thrustmaster T-Flight Full Kit which is listed for $199USD.  It's been many years, decades actually, since I had a joystick for gaming and I've never had throttle controls.


Brian

[aeberbach]

Did u ever used minipc under heavy load ? They are workings like hair dryers

LOL.  Noctua is your friend.

In that size case not even $$$ Noctua fans can help you.

[SiliconWizard]

In the NUC form factor, the only type of aircoolers that fits is the blower fan type (like in laptops) and those get pretty loud at full load, even the best ones.
Noctua has nothing that can help here AFAIK.
Unless you are actually going to run with the case open and install a big aircooler on the CPU. Then yes you'll get silence.

[raptor1956]

Did u ever used minipc under heavy load ? They are workings like hair dryers

LOL.  Noctua is your friend.

In that size case not even $$$ Noctua fans can help you.

The reports I've seen indicate the thermal issues are well controlled and noise is not a problem.  I have an older mini pc that I never even hear -- makes listening to music much better than the desktop I built in 2015.

I built a calorimeter like testing unit to test Peltier coolers and the little fan inside 24VDC power supply I used to power it would scream, then I mounted a 200mm fan on top of it with a voltage controller (buck converter) to lower the voltage and the little fan inside the PS never even comes on. 

This particular mini pc uses a discrete GPU which eats more power than an integrated GPU, but then it's separate from the CPU so the thermals don't add the same way.


Brian

[raptor1956]

Well I received the MINISFORUM Neptune Series HX99G Mini PC with AMD Ryzen 9 6900HX a couple days ago and although I haven't really put it to the test just yet the everyday use seems just fine and I seldom hear the fans at all and when I do it is quite modest -- a whole lot less than the desktop this replaces.  I use TurboCAD Professional for CAD work and, unfortunately, after installing on my new PC the activation doesn't work so I have a message into support to get that working.  So, hopefully in a day or two that should be resolved and I'll be back in business.

We appear to be reaching a point with newer PC's that you don't need to spend a fortune to do your job but game developers will always push things.  So, if high end 1440P and 4K gaming is your thing you better save up, but for most everyone else a PC like this is more than enough.  Back when I built my desktop in 2016 my main hard use case was 4K video editing and high resolution image editing and the desktop I built struggled to handle 4K video editing -- a modern laptop is much better able to handle 4K video editing given the baked in handling of the various codecs and other improvements.  So, at this point, video and image editing is almost a breeze but high end gaming is really the bottleneck.  That and 3D animation.


Brian

[BeBuLamar]

But just the monitor is too big. If you get a small monitor then it's worse than a laptop.

[brucehoult]

m1 mac mini with asahi linux?

Small, powerful, and ... yes ... silent.

[djacobow]

I have a nuc8, and the thermal sitch was never very good. The fan was loud *and* it performed badly. The machine was never reliable. Replacing the fan assembly didn't help.

I took the whole machine apart and put it into an Akasa fanless case and the machine has been a *dream* since then. It's my daily driver, temps never pop up, and I enjoy total silence.

[raptor1956]

But just the monitor is too big. If you get a small monitor then it's worse than a laptop.

I don't recall mentioning my monitor, but it's an 8 month old 32 inch Samsung 4K monitor.  I have an older 32 inch 4K monitor but it's developing some banding -- still works and forms my backup.


Brian

[raptor1956]

I have a nuc8, and the thermal sitch was never very good. The fan was loud *and* it performed badly. The machine was never reliable. Replacing the fan assembly didn't help.

I took the whole machine apart and put it into an Akasa fanless case and the machine has been a *dream* since then. It's my daily driver, temps never pop up, and I enjoy total silence.

I don't know why some builders release crap that could be made a lot better for only a little bit more. 

Apple silicon is putting pressure on Intel and AMD to improve the thermals and power consumption -- their 'm' series PC's achieve with comparable performance from near the best Intel has to offer and does so eating 1/3 as much power.  It's a huge thing for laptops in particular, but if you improve the performance/watt and the performance is near as good as the flagship chips from Intel and AMD the same approach can power a mini PC without having horrendous fan noise.


Brian

[BeBuLamar]

But just the monitor is too big. If you get a small monitor then it's worse than a laptop.

I don't recall mentioning my monitor, but it's an 8 month old 32 inch Samsung 4K monitor.  I have an older 32 inch 4K monitor but it's developing some banding -- still works and forms my backup.


Brian

Well you want a small PC so that you can take with you in the car but where do you keep the 32" monitors? In the car too?

[brucehoult]

But just the monitor is too big. If you get a small monitor then it's worse than a laptop.

I don't recall mentioning my monitor, but it's an 8 month old 32 inch Samsung 4K monitor.  I have an older 32 inch 4K monitor but it's developing some banding -- still works and forms my backup.

Well you want a small PC so that you can take with you in the car but where do you keep the 32" monitors? In the car too?

In  2018 I was working for a company in San Mateo, California and working remotely while I waited 15 months for my H-1B visa. I was visiting California about every 3 months for a couple of weeks. The rest of the time I was living in Moscow, then Paihia NZ, then Emerald QLD, then Paihia again, then Nadi Fiji, then NZ again.

I did my work on a NUC with an i7-8650U CPU and 32 GB RAM. It literally could fit in my jeans front pocket.

In each place that I worked I had a 32" 4K monitor.

You could say I should have a laptop instead. But they cost far more than a NUC, I hate working on laptop screens, and for sure am not going to work on a plane.

Also, something I was doing multiple times a day was compiling the entire RISC-V GNU toolchain (because I was experimentally adding new instructions to the ISA): binutils, gdb, gcc, libc. On the NUC it took 20 minutes. On a laptop with the exact same i7-8650U CPU (ThinkPad X1 Carbon) it took 30+ minutes due to thermal throttling.

[brucehoult]

If you can arrange a monitor in each place you go then arranging a keyboard and mouse is not hard. They are very cheap these days.

But often I throw a Microsoft 850 wireless KB&mouse set in my carry-on backpack anyway (and the USB dongle of course). Not the best kb&mouse in the world but far from the worst and I find them perfectly adequate -- and familiar.

[raptor1956]

But just the monitor is too big. If you get a small monitor then it's worse than a laptop.

I don't recall mentioning my monitor, but it's an 8 month old 32 inch Samsung 4K monitor.  I have an older 32 inch 4K monitor but it's developing some banding -- still works and forms my backup.


Brian

Well you want a small PC so that you can take with you in the car but where do you keep the 32" monitors? In the car too?

I have a 25 inch monitor as well but don't plan on taking it with me if I travel with the mini PC -- not that it would be impossible, but I can expect to have access to a monitor where I would be going with the mini PC.

Brian

[KE5FX]

Anyone care to comment about this box or about mini PC's in general?

Good specs and peripheral support on the newly-announced LattePanda Sigma, at least on paper.  Their boards are a step or two beyond the standard sub-ITX form factors.

[raptor1956]

Apple silicon is putting pressure on Intel and AMD to improve the thermals and power consumption -- their 'm' series PC's achieve with comparable performance from near the best Intel has to offer and does so eating 1/3 as much power.

Try 1/10th or less. M1 CPU can outperform a low-end eight- or 12-core Ryzen drawing 150W while beating out a low-end 150W graphics card, and the M1 CPU+GPU doesn't even hit its peak TDP of 30W. Maybe 22W.

In the data I've seen the difference is closer to 3X but I'm sure there are cases where its 10X and other cases where its the other way around.

ARM appears to be looking to increase the cost to customers that use ARM IP, but RISC V appears to be poised to step up and replace ARM if they get too greedy and maybe even of they don't.  The bottom line is that the legacy semiconductor companies like Intel and AMD are reaching an end of the domination and ARM and/or RISC V are likely to supplant them within a decade.


Brian

[raptor1956]

What did you do about keyboards & mice?

Yep, going to need to bring a KB and mouse...


Brian

[SiliconWizard]

If you can live with a small/thin keyboard while on the go, you can take one with you along with a small mouse.
Heck, you can even take a small portable monitor with you - they are pretty thin. A small portable monitor + mini PC + small keyboard will not take up a lot more space in your bag than a chunky laptop.
Downside is to have to plug the bits together, and to have to get it all out at airport security checks (more annoying than a single piece), but otherwise that works fairly well.