Author Topic: Teamviewer V14 is messed up  (Read 3163 times)

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Offline soldar

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Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« on: June 16, 2019, 03:24:18 pm »
I have been using Teamviewer for a long time, both in Windows and in Linux, and it worked fine and I really liked it.

I don't know what has happened with Teamviewer lately but first I started getting messages of "commercial use suspected" and had to email them and wait some time.

Then since V14 came out it has given me nothing but trouble and aggravation. I gather it has trouble connecting to the Internet or to its servers. So I can start it and it does not register my own ID and password. And if I try to connect to another computer it says it is not online. It seems to happen more with Linux than with Windows.

The forum at Teamviewer is worthless and provides no help. I have posted there but no response.

The Linux Mint forum just suggest returning to an earlier version but the reason I upgraded was that earlier versions were very aggressive in demanding I upgrade.

I am very much ticked off about the whole thing because I liked Teamviewer and it was one of the few programs that worked well on both Windows and Linux.

Is there any way I could test to see why it may be having problems connecting?
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Offline mcinque

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2019, 04:32:56 pm »
The software uses unknown rules to determine if your use is within the "non commercial use", for example it may be checking if you're controlling endpoints with server O.S. or more than N endpoints in one day and who else know. A sure limit it is the hourly usage: after X hours a month it's considered commercial use.
They don't reveal anything else for obvious reasons.

Once your ID become suspected of commercial use you can ask for them to correct the issue and have the limitation removed but if you continue to use it in the same way you'll be victim of that system again, after some time.

The fact is that it remains a commercial software given as free (under not so precise terms), so there is nothing to do if they decide to suspend an account.

There is nothing you can do about it (other than changing your software usage habits to occasionally).
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2019, 04:54:49 pm »
The problem now is not "commercial use suspected". It just seems to be having trouble connecting to the internet or to its servers. And I am not the only one having this problem.
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Offline mcinque

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2019, 05:53:17 pm »
It could be a way to prevent using of the account due to suspected commercial use instead showing clearly that message.
I would try with other machines (different hardware, different account, same OS) to see if the problem can be in that "feature".

Quote
And I am not the only one having this problem.
I heard many connection issues or troubles and when digging a little bit, all of them were free accounts.
I'm a paid user and except for announced maintenance, I had never a real connection issue.
They could intentionally prevent free accounts from connecting to avoid service degradation for paid users. That is something that from a commercial point of view is correct, even if I understand the frustration of the free users.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2019, 05:58:00 pm »
Teamviewer is stupidly expensive for what it is. Especially for use that is barely commercial.
 

Offline mcinque

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2019, 06:19:53 pm »
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Then since V14 came out it has given me nothing but trouble and aggravation.
Teamviewer grew a lot in the last years, the endpoint numbering has reached more than a billion units.
Connection servers are a cost. I think they cannot offer anymore the same quality to the free accounts but they don't want to say it explicitly.

Teamviewer is stupidly expensive for what it is. Especially for use that is barely commercial.
Don't be offended: this is something common I hear in free users complaints on forums. They are angry because they like the software a lot, want to use it but they don't want to pay for it because they consider their usage as "not really commercial". Furthermore, they consider the software so simple it should cost a lot less.

The "new" teamviewer license subscription purchase isn't too much expensive in my opinion in respect to past licensing system.

I understand your point of view but we're not forced to use their software. There are other remote control software that are cheaper and even free.

Of course, they don't have all the features that TW have, and this is the point. If you really need that features, you are forced to purchase a subscription.

Since I'm spending good words on them, I must clarify that I'm not endorsed by teamwiever, instead I had a couple of very rude customer care tickets, so I'm not exactly a fanboy of them.

But their software helps me to work better and I understand that running a company has its costs and that the free service has its limits.

It's like Eagle or any other CAD software. Free until a certain point. For example, DipTrace is free until 300 pins. If you have a PCB with 301 pins you have to purchase the software or it won't work. I know that 1 pin more it's only 1 pin, but you passed the limit.

I heard of "Supremo remote control" working fine/better inside a free usage model. It's very similar to teamviewer and can be activated on Linux thru Wine.
You can try "AnyDesk" that can be used without purchasing and works natively on Linux or try "ISL Light" always for Linux.

There are many other remote control software out there, but if you want certain features, you must purchase a license :(
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 06:26:14 pm by mcinque »
 

Online wraper

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2019, 06:34:31 pm »
There are many other remote control software out there, but if you want certain features, you must purchase a license :(
It's free until they'll charge you like for quite expensive CAD, especially in a long run. It's just plain stupid IMHO. Free until you asked to pay EUR 335/year 1 seat/1 session  :palm:. Even if you use it once for a few minutes in a month. As if they don't need entry level customers at all.
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It's like Eagle or any other CAD software. Free until a certain point. For example, DipTrace is free until 300 pins. If you have a PCB with 301 pins you have to purchase the software or it won't work. I know that 1 pin more it's only 1 pin, but you passed the limit.
They don't hit you with a hammer on a head once you need 1 additional pin.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 06:41:16 pm by wraper »
 

Offline mcinque

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2019, 06:40:10 pm »
Quote
It's free until they'll charge you like for quite expensive CAD, especially in a long run. It's just plain stupid IMHO. Free until you asked to pay EUR 335/year 1 seat/1 session  :palm:. Even if you use it once for a few minutes in a month.
I understand. Did you try to look at Supremo, AnyDesk or ISL Light?

Quote
As if they don't need entry level customers at all.
Yes, it is correct. At least not anymore. It is not their target now that their product is well known.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2019, 06:48:59 pm »
Quote
It's free until they'll charge you like for quite expensive CAD, especially in a long run. It's just plain stupid IMHO. Free until you asked to pay EUR 335/year 1 seat/1 session  :palm:. Even if you use it once for a few minutes in a month.
I understand. Did you try to look at Supremo, AnyDesk or ISL Light?

Quote
As if they don't need entry level customers at all.
Yes, it is correct. At least not anymore. It is not their target now that their product is well known.
What's strange, why they then they have trigger happy 'commercial use' detection. How many going to pay this much for occasional use, if they did not buy it from the beginning?
 

Offline mcinque

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2019, 08:36:08 am »
Quote
What's strange, why they then they have trigger happy 'commercial use' detection. How many going to pay this much for occasional use, if they did not buy it from the beginning?

The "non commercial free usage" is a marketing tool, like the old hardware copy protection of Autocad: with a simple JZ instead JNZ in ASM they had the hardware protection removed. Autodesk knew well how that would be easy to defeat, but they done in that way deliberately: thanks to the easily defeated protection the software became more and more popular and used by thousands of people and when in a business environment you must choose a cad what will be your choice if you know well that software instead starting from scratch?

It is something used to raise the software popularity.

And consider that many starts from occasional use and then go ahead using it more and more.

From a marketing point of view, "trigger happy" it is "convert the client or drop it": since each connection has a cost in terms of servers and management, if it doesn't convert to a paid user, it's not interesting for them.

Even the licensing system, where the lower versions cannot connect to higher versions (but higher versions can connect to every lower version) is a marketing tool: of course it's not a technical limit that prevent this (like they say), because even if the protocol changes, it is clear that the new version has the ability to negotiate and talk with older protocols but it refuse to do it deliberately if the connection doesn't start from the newer.

Some fake "Microsoft helpdesk" scammers are using this inverted scheme to use teamviewer without paying it: they call the victim and ask them to install the full latest version of teamviewer, then they give their id and password to allow the victim to connect to their endpoint running an older version of teamviewer. New versions allows this BUT after the connection they ask the victim to exchange roles so that they become the controller. This had some fun results when the scammers called an advanced user that refused to change the role and dropped a malware on the scammer's pc (it's on youtube).

However, Teamviewer noticed that exploit (older versions called by newer and then change roles) after some time and triggered also that kind of usage scheme into commercial usage (a single endpoint running old version controlling too much newer versions).

It is their choice to force upgrades.

It's business, not less, not more.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 08:40:44 am by mcinque »
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2019, 08:44:18 am »
Assuming its for private devices, why not use TightVNC ? Its free (open source) for Win OS or Linux, and its really fast, slim & mean.

I used it I think more than a decade now, for home's workstations, laptops, server, NAS and home LAN segment is connected to the net through private VPN setup at my wireless router, and equipped with WakeOnLAN at my Android devices like my cell phone and tablet, I'm set. Any decent off the shelf router nowadays came with VPN capability as standard feature.

The price for the TightVNC client for Android (really small memory foot print), is only one time payment with perpetual support, and its dirt cheap too.

Can't see Teamviewer can beat this, especially with the mafia like pricing.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 08:46:21 am by BravoV »
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2019, 09:13:00 am »
You don't just open up RDP or VNC to the internet. I get hundreds of port scans on those ports a day.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/msrc/2019/05/14/prevent-a-worm-by-updating-remote-desktop-services-cve-2019-0708/
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2019, 09:19:52 am »
You don't just open up RDP or VNC to the internet.

Yep, thats why connecting from own's gadget outside at the net, the only way is thru private VPN back to home.

Offline mcinque

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2019, 09:37:52 am »
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Windows has free built-in RDP server, and Linux has free built-in X server (or should I say, client).

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You don't just open up RDP or VNC to the internet. I get hundreds of port scans on those ports a day.
^THIS. ABSOLUTELY.

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You can implement port knocking or port redirection with many firewalls.
Yes, you can do it. But you need time, knowledge and a firewall (not every customer is behind a firewall and not always you can have administrative access to their firewall).

And that's exactly where software like Teamviewer comes in. It allows anyone to setup easily a remote endopoint management with an eye on security (for example connections are automatically blacklisted for a certain amount of time after too many wrong logins) and without the risks of exposing VNC service or RDP on the internet.

It allows to provide quick help to a customer without the hassle to setup software or settings. Just download the software, it will tunnel thru port 80 or 443 (or else if needed) with encrypted connection.

In a professional>customer relation, the remote support must be quick and effortless and nothing beats this kind of softwares.
In a private or professional>professional environment, you have the choice and you're not forced to use anything in particular: you can setup a VPN easily.

It's a matter of price/performance in my opinion.

Probably they would acquire a lot more customers if they lower the price, but I guess the issue is in the bandwitdh/cost per user, since all the connections pass thru their servers by default. So a lot of more customers means a lot of more bandwith needed, much more servers required etc. and maybe this isn't worth the price for them. :(
 

Online wraper

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2019, 10:38:53 am »
Probably they would acquire a lot more customers if they lower the price, but I guess the issue is in the bandwitdh/cost per user, since all the connections pass thru their servers by default. So a lot of more customers means a lot of more bandwith needed, much more servers required etc. and maybe this isn't worth the price for them. :(
They could convert way more free users which they have a lot of, and which consume bandwidth for free anyway into paying users. So what you wrote does not make sense.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2019, 05:09:15 pm »
Probably they would acquire a lot more customers if they lower the price, but I guess the issue is in the bandwitdh/cost per user, since all the connections pass thru their servers by default. So a lot of more customers means a lot of more bandwith needed, much more servers required etc. and maybe this isn't worth the price for them. :(
They could convert way more free users which they have a lot of, and which consume bandwidth for free anyway into paying users. So what you wrote does not make sense.
What I imagine is that, by having a paid customer, they guarantee support and connections. Using a freeware model they reserve themselves the right to not answer their e-mail/forum.

I find TeamViewer the most convenient tool to remotely admin my mom's PC 5000 miles away. I don't have the means to go there, configure a proper firewall and maintain it on the long run. Any pre-configured setup tends to be gone due to power outages and other minor issues.
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Online edavid

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2019, 05:20:04 pm »
Once your ID become suspected of commercial use you can ask for them to correct the issue and have the limitation removed but if you continue to use it in the same way you'll be victim of that system again, after some time.

I think they may have changed things so that once they unblock a free account, it stays unblocked.

The reason I say that, is that last year my account got blocked twice in 2 months, but since then it has stayed unblocked, even though my usage pattern hasn't changed.

Of course this is just guesswork.
 

Offline mcinque

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2019, 09:19:42 pm »
Quote
They could convert way more free users which they have a lot of, and which consume bandwidth for free anyway into paying users. So what you wrote does not make sense.
IMHO you underestimate the fact that they can manage bandwidth and if needed allocate it to paid users, without warning free users. This while continuing being popular with free service as remote management software, acquiring new potential customers and freely blocking those free accounts that use "too much" of their service with the "excuse" of commercial usage (I heard many "I was using it in the same way that I've done in the last months!).

To me it seems a plausibile strategy. If this doesn't make sense to you, I will be glad to hear you opinion about what you think they're doing.
To me it seem stupid the Eagle licensing, but it doesn't seem to make them going bankrupt. Maybe it's me that I'm wrong.

It's just plain stupid IMHO.
You said that that their strategy is stupid. We can share or not their rules, but I don't think they are stupid. Stupidity can not make a company grow keeping it wealthy and alive for many years. Maybe stupid customers can, but not a company strategy.

Quote
I think they may have changed things so that once they unblock a free account, it stays unblocked.
The reason I say that, is that last year my account got blocked twice in 2 months, but since then it has stayed unblocked, even though my usage pattern hasn't changed.
I'm sure that they are continuing to monitor automatically your usage. Probably they have tuned some sort of "false positive trigger" that was "too much sensitive" on your account but definitely I don't think they have "whitelisted" a free account.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2019, 02:20:38 am »
Probably not relevant but:

I've been using AnyDesk as an Alternative to TeamViewer.

The free licence they have never ever flagged me as Comercial Use, and I use it heavily for IT support and Remote Access to other computers.

Since the problems with the Microsoft SMB in 2017 that affected old legacy equipments with proprietary software not made to be run in older OSs that XP and 2003 (https://www.wired.com/story/eternalblue-leaked-nsa-spy-tool-hacked-world/), I started using AnyDesk for that propose and for my needs it works. Even used for support on Android Devices without problems.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2019, 03:13:04 am »
Probably not relevant but:

I've been using AnyDesk as an Alternative to TeamViewer.

The free licence they have never ever flagged me as Comercial Use, and I use it heavily for IT support and Remote Access to other computers.

Since the problems with the Microsoft SMB in 2017 that affected old legacy equipments with proprietary software not made to be run in older OSs that XP and 2003 (https://www.wired.com/story/eternalblue-leaked-nsa-spy-tool-hacked-world/), I started using AnyDesk for that propose and for my needs it works. Even used for support on Android Devices without problems.

What are the limitations of the AnyDesk free version?  I couldn't find any details of this.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2019, 03:31:40 am »
To be sincere I didn't got into any limitations for my use case:

From Unattended login with password, to file transfer, printing, sharing host drives and printers on the client side, log of sessions. Try by yourself in your case scenario.

The only thing I found is this:

Quote
Free for evaluation and personal use. Try out AnyDesk for free, without having to provide any personal information. AnyDesk is also free of charge for personal use.

2. Preconditions and subject of service provision

2.1. The “AnyDesk Free” option is addressed to both consumers in terms of Section 13 of the German Civil Code (BGB) and entrepreneurs in terms of Section 14 BGB.

2.2. Use of the AnyDesk software is subject only to the download of the same and acceptance of the applicability of the General Terms and Conditions and Supplementary Terms.

2.3. ANYDESK provides its software on its website for download, without need for registration, to one data processing terminal per Customer. Following saving of the downloaded software to this specific terminal the Customer may start the software to connect to the communications servers of ANYDESK in order to use, via the Internet, software functions to the extent described in detail in the Service Specification and subject to the conditions and system requirements described in the same.

2.4. The download of the software and the use of its functionalities for an indefinite period is free of charge. However, the Customer shall have no legal claim to the free service described in Section 2.1. ANYDESK does not warrant provision of any particular scope of services and reserves the right to discontinue the service described in Section 2.3 at any time and without stating reasons.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 03:34:23 am by Black Phoenix »
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2019, 02:09:53 pm »
I still have this problem. As I said, the problem has absolutely nothing to do with "commercial use suspected". It is clearly a problem of TeamViewer having communications problems but I don't know if the problem lies with TeamViewer, with Linux Mint or a combination of the two.  It only happens in one Linux machine, it does not happen in other machines, Linux or Windows.

I have just updated Linux Mint and the problem persists. Teamviewer at times just seems to have difficulty connecting to the internet. Other programs have no problem connecting to the Internet. Teamviewer will start but not log in and not get and display an ID and password.

I do not know what tests, if any, I could do to troubleshoot this issue. I see TeamViewer keeps some logs but I would not know how to interpret them assuming they can show anything useful.
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2019, 02:38:41 pm »
Have you tried an alternative like X2Go?
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Offline soldar

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2019, 06:19:59 pm »
OK, it seems V14 has a known issue with certain video cards or drivers or something. This could make sense because mi machine and my wife's machine are exactly alike in HW and in SW except that she is using the onboard Intel video and I am using an NVidia Gforce 730 card.

Over in the TV forum someone posted
Quote
TV does not work with wayland graphics so if the computer you are trying to call into is using that, you will have to switch it back to "X".

The computer you are trying to call from, can use wayland. However there is an issue in TV and you will have to restart the service then you will be able to connect and see what is online. I use fedora, command is  sudo systemctl restart teamviewerd
Can someone explain "Wayland" and "X" to me?

I tried to use the Intel onboard video in my machine and I messed up so badly that I thought I would probably have to reinstall Linux because I could just not get in. Finally I did manage to boot and get back in and I found a new NVidia control app in the system tray. All this messing might have changed something with the driver.

I am exhausted so I am putting it aside for now but I will be trying to see if the video configuration resolves the problem.
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Online edavid

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Re: Teamviewer V14 is messed up
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2019, 02:59:44 pm »
I think they may have changed things so that once they unblock a free account, it stays unblocked.

The reason I say that, is that last year my account got blocked twice in 2 months, but since then it has stayed unblocked, even though my usage pattern hasn't changed.

Of course this is just guesswork.

Well, I spoke too soon, my account was just blocked again (after 14 months).  I guess I will try switching to AnyDesk... of course I have to wait until TeamViewer unblocks my account to switch my remote relatives over  |O
 


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