ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen 8:: what do you think?

[0db]

I own a ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen 3. Planning to replace it with a Gen 8 or Gen 9.



This video gives some points on not buying it.

She said "consider yourselves warned!" in her video and I feel a bit puzzled

[0db]

Concerning my needs. The laptop will be dedicated to

• SolidWorks, job (nothing serious anyway)
• Mathematica, job (planned to be used a lot)
• Matlab, job (planned to be used a lot)
• LaTek + Office, job (planned to be used a lot)
• EagleCAD, hobby stuff
• ISE + Vivado, hobby stuff, may be also something for job, but not so much
• Linux C programming, hobby stuff

I need an ultra-portable laptop because I usually travel a lot, and the most of the things in the list will likely to be done "on the road".

Considering my good experience with Gen3, the Gen8 and G9 should be satisfactory or acceptable in quality. What really worries me in the video is the new keyboard because it seems to bend, and this this looks less comfortable.

Opinions/alternatives are welcome 

[awallin]

maybe look at T***s series also?
I think I've had a T60s, T400s and now T460s (from 2016... I still think it's OK, laptops improve really slow...) - ofcourse they might not  be that ultraportable as the X-series.
power management in Ubuntu isn't the greatest but I guess it improves little by little each year...
usb-C charging (+docking?) would be good if you can get other gear (phone, cameras etc.) to charge with usb-C also.

amd/ryzen might be worth a look also, if they make laptop cpus..

[0db]

amd/ryzen might be worth a look also, if they make laptop cpus..

sure, for example the Asus Zephyrus G14.

[olkipukki]

Opinions/alternatives are welcome 

What happened to your MacBook pro? 

[olkipukki]

amd/ryzen might be worth a look also, if they make laptop cpus..

sure, for example the Asus Zephyrus G14.

...or ThinkPad X13 AMD 

[0db]

What happened to your MacBook pro? 

It's dedicated to FinalCut. I can't and I won't install anything else on it.

[0db]

...or ThinkPad X13 AMD 

wow, good find, here spes. Thanks! 

[bd139]

Watch it for the AMD Thinkpads. I’ve seen two from the T495 series and the fans are loud as fuck and spend a lot of the time on.

[olkipukki]

... fans are loud as fuck and spend a lot of the time on.

Once OP launch Vivado or SolidWorks to do any meaningful stuff, not sure if you need count until 10 then fans will kick off anyway   

[bd139]

Haha fair point.

[olkipukki]

A bit offtop, but SolidWorks team put some efforts into VM testing

https://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/11168_ENU_HTML.htm

and a generic benchmark

https://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/shareyourscore.htm

[bd139]

Ugh why would you run any CAD stuff on a VM

[brucehoult]

I had one with an i7-8650U CPU -- Intel 8th gen core which I think makes it a 6th gen X1? So not directly relevant, but ...

I liked it as an ultra-light laptop for general web browsing, email, writing and compiling and testing small programs. The battery life is good. I liked the backlit keyboard (but not as much as Apple ones). Running Ubuntu sleep and wake was actually reliable .. wow.

I have a NUC with exactly the same i-8650U CPU.

On large CPU-intensive tasks the NUC is 50% faster than the laptop. Both would start an all-cores task at 3.4 GHz but the laptop *very* quickly fell down from that to eventually around 2.0 GHz. The NUC stayed at 3.4 for several minutes and then over the course of half an hour gradually fell to 2.8 GHz, but never lower.

After, say, 30 minutes, the NUC was running 40% faster than the laptop (and stayed that way), but the NUC stayed at or near 3.4 long enough that on tasks between a couple of minutes and 30 minutes the average advantage was bigger.

They both coped with single-threaded code at 4.2 GHz (or near enough) just fine.

[fordem]

If thin & light and workstation power/graphics are what you're looking for - take a look at the Thinkpad P1 - if you don't need ISV certification, consider the X1 Extreme.

[0db]

If thin & light and workstation power/graphics are what you're looking for - take a look at the Thinkpad P1

it has a NVIDIA Quadro P2000. Very interesting!

I says it has a ISV certification for

• ArcGIS
• AutoCAD
• CATIA
• Creo <--------- I may have to use Pro/E
• Inventor
• Microstation
• NX
• PDMS
• Revit
• Solid Edge
• SolidWorks <---------- this makes +1000 point
• Vectorworks

I think nor Mathematica neither Matlab will have any advantage, but it's always cool to have a Quadro onboard.

The price is ... well ... a bit expensive with all the whistles and bells (maxed out), but I can get a second bank loan 

[0db]

Talking about prices for a possible configuration

• ID: LENOVO ThinkPad P1
• LCD: 15.6" Full HD
• CPU: Intel Core i7-8850H Hexa Core
• Ram: 16GB
• SSD: 1TB
• GPU: Nvidia Quadro P2000 4GB
• USB: 2xUSB 3.1 2xUSB 3.0
• OS: Windows 10 Pro
• Weigh: 1.7 kg
• Price: 2800 euro

This sounds acceptable 

[0db]

With

• CPU: Xeon E-2176M Hexa Core
• Price: +300 Euro

[olkipukki]

Why P1 and not P1 (Gen 2)?   

Also, related topic for a similar laptop

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/what-laptop-for-altium/

[Halcyon]

She is absolutely nuts. Unless you have a specific need for those very few minor negatives she pointed out in the video, the X1 Carbon is a great laptop for its money. The biggest negative is not being able to upgrade RAM yourself. That may or may not matter to most people.

But if you're after a reletively well spec'd and well built laptop and it ticks all your boxes, I wouldn't look past the X1.

Personally, I went with the P1 Gen 2, but you pay a whole lot more for it at well.

[0db]

Personally, I went with the P1 Gen 2, but you pay a whole lot more for it at well.

I think I will follow your advice for the The Lenovo ThinkPad P1 gen2. Mainly because it comes with a Xeon CPU, a sold GPU, and it's certified for Soldworks, secondary also because it gives you the freedom to freely upgrade the RAM up to 64GB. I mean, if the default installed ram wasn't just 16Gbyte I wouldn't care, but I think I would better exploit more ram for more VM, thus being able to upgrade myself the ram is a solid motivation now to better justify the money investment and achieve better material results.

Thanks Halcyon, thanks guys

[fordem]

Before you spring for the Xeon (or any other processor), consider this - many design apps are not multi-threaded - I'm told it has something to do with a requirement to do things in a given sequence - there is very little point in getting a slower processor with multiple cores, if the apps are only going to utilize a single core - you would be better off with a higher clock speed and fewer cores.

When the P1 first came out (about two years back), I got one for my daughter (she's primarily an Autocad & Sketchup user), she's been happy with it so far - I just added a USB-C dock so now she can run three screens - the internal & two externals.

[0db]

Before you spring for the Xeon (or any other processor), consider this - many design apps are not multi-threaded - I'm told it has something to do with a requirement to do things in a given sequence - there is very little point in getting a slower processor with multiple cores, if the apps are only going to utilize a single core - you would be better off with a higher clock speed and fewer cores.

Sure! Excellent point!
When I considered it I found that most of my applications can benefit from up to 8 threads.

It was a great advice here on the on the forum, because the Xeon P1 (gen2) laptop is certified for a couple of applications that I consider "primary need", and they benefit from multicores, so I can justify the purchase 

[Black Phoenix]

She is absolutely nuts. Unless you have a specific need for those very few minor negatives she pointed out in the video, the X1 Carbon is a great laptop for its money. The biggest negative is not being able to upgrade RAM yourself. That may or may not matter to most people.

Could agree more. And their presentation is basically reading some papers, no enthusiasm on their voice, or even proper knowledge other than what she is reading.

All her negative points are basically pointless in most of the uses of what people do, even being a very good laptop to be portable, most of the time it will be on a table, connected to an external display and external keyboard and mouse.

For the price is one of the best laptops in the market, probably the only that could really also be a rival would be the Dell XPS line and probably the Razer, although more gaming focus currently their models are losing some of the gaming features or allow to be disabled, making the laptop a "MacBook Like".

[kaz911]

I'm on a Thinkpad Break and is back on MBP.

Why:

1. P70/P51/P52 and P1 G1 - all have issues with high speed USB3 - some more some less.

P1 G1 - no high speed USB3 through dock.

So that means things like my Tektronix RSA306 and Saleae Logic Pro does not work very reliable.

After waiting for about 2 years for Lenovo to actually test their USB3 I gave up.

Went to MBP 16" - where it works fine even through parallels.

I have not sold my P51/P52/P1G1's yet - but I really should. All Xeons with max memory. I did sell my P70. Fault on that was USB was on daughter boards - and not quite matched lengths. USB3 on P70 dock worked where the built in did not work very well.

P51/P52/P1G1 (PiGi) - did not debug the fault. But their Thunderbolt docks are absolutely horrendous

In all honesty I think TP are on the quality decline - it is getting closer and closer to Lenovo in quality.... It used to be a lot better.

/k

[Black Phoenix]

In all honesty I think TP are on the quality decline - it is getting closer and closer to Lenovo in quality.... It used to be a lot better.

/k

Well the user blueskull have also some problems with his Lenovo, but I don't know if because of quality or if because of his use case, since he also didn't like the Surface line (been disconnected from the forum since the beginning of the year, have a lot to catch up and no time to...).

[fordem]

In all honesty I think TP are on the quality decline - it is getting closer and closer to Lenovo in quality.... It used to be a lot better.

Lenovo has several ThinkPad lines (as well as other laptop lines - IdeaPad, Yoga, etc.), for example the E-series ThinkPads are "entry level" and lower cost - the T-series ThinkPads are the equivalent of the older IBM ThinkPads in terms of build quality.  If your ThinkPad is going to essentially be a desk top replacement, an E-series is more than adequate, and you can get a "higher spec" E-series at fairly attractive prices.  If on the other hand, your ThinkPad is going to be contantly on the move, out in the field, up in a cherry-picker bucket - you want nothing less than a T-series, an E-series will not withstand the "rough & tumble".

If you need or want ISV certfication, you'll need to look at the P-series, and also be Prepared to Pay for it - many of the higher spec E-series will perform admirably at an affordable price, but they lack the certification and you may be told by support that they are not supported for the application.

Yes - I am biased - I've been an "on-site support" tech for the last four decades or so and certified by the big three (Dell, HP/Compaq & IBM/Lenovo) to provide warranty support on their products.  As on-site techs, we see more product with problems than the average user, and we also interface more frequently with the support structure than the average user.  We know what works & what doesn't and we "vote with our wallets."

For what it's worth - standard IBM issue to their "Customer Support Representatives" is a T-series ThinkPad - at this time, it's the T480.

[kaz911]

In all honesty I think TP are on the quality decline - it is getting closer and closer to Lenovo in quality.... It used to be a lot better.

Lenovo has several ThinkPad lines (as well as other laptop lines - IdeaPad, Yoga, etc.), for example the E-series ThinkPads are "entry level" and lower cost - the T-series ThinkPads are the equivalent of the older IBM ThinkPads in terms of build quality.  If your ThinkPad is going to essentially be a desk top replacement, an E-series is more than adequate, and you can get a "higher spec" E-series at fairly attractive prices.  If on the other hand, your ThinkPad is going to be contantly on the move, out in the field, up in a cherry-picker bucket - you want nothing less than a T-series, an E-series will not withstand the "rough & tumble".

If you need or want ISV certfication, you'll need to look at the P-series, and also be Prepared to Pay for it - many of the higher spec E-series will perform admirably at an affordable price, but they lack the certification and you may be told by support that they are not supported for the application.

Yes - I am biased - I've been an "on-site support" tech for the last four decades or so and certified by the big three (Dell, HP/Compaq & IBM/Lenovo) to provide warranty support on their products.  As on-site techs, we see more product with problems than the average user, and we also interface more frequently with the support structure than the average user.  We know what works & what doesn't and we "vote with our wallets."

For what it's worth - standard IBM issue to their "Customer Support Representatives" is a T-series ThinkPad - at this time, it's the T480.

As I wrote - I have used P and W series for years... and years and then some years.

But now the quality of their testing before shipping has dropped. Since the P70 there has not been a P model that I know of that actually works with High Speed USB3 - either the built in ports fail at high speed - or the dock station (via thunderbolt) fails at high speed. And it is not only Saleae Logic Pro that fails - it is everything high speed. High speed SSD's. iPhone/iPad transfers - and usually they fail worst on "inbound" data but occasionally on writing externally as well.

So here is the list of P models I know have issues and have owned or still own - P70 (will never get fixed - hardware design issue) - P51/P52 - again USB3 issues - probably never gets fixed as it is "out of rotation" - P1 G1 - dead as a doornail with fast USB3 transfers.

All of the above have failed with  Saleae Logic Pro (quickest test in the world...) - High speed image transfer from high speed XQD readers and SSD drives - Image Transfer from phones - creation of backup media from high speed external media and I could continue.

I have a lot of respect for IBM ThinkPads - But I do think a lot of the old IBM guys are no longer involved in ThinkPads - now ThinkPads are getting closer and closer to Lenovo/Acer and other Chinese brands in quality.

MBP have issues - but not those issues... MBP is crap HW design - but very much more portable vs the P1G1/P52 overall.

[bd139]

Had to dump MacBooks as they gave me a rash. Also the iPhone/iPad issues are due to the iOS end. Even has some trouble on macs  . MacBook engineering is top notch though. I can’t agree with it being bad. If you look inside a laptop these days, including Lenovo, it’s a shit show whereas Apple actually out some consideration into the engineering.

A point to note with the USB-C only thinkpads is the port is extremely fragile. If you bust it, it’s on the motherboard as well so it’s end game. Apple put theirs on daughterboards which is 100x better.