Author Topic: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death  (Read 4083 times)

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Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« on: May 27, 2022, 10:17:50 pm »
so, I bought eight SCSI-hard-disks, one doesn't even respond, the other seven have bad values when I query smartctl

But the seller insists that the records are acceptable ... and that I'm too picky and fussy

so, let's see what I have used and seen on the console
Code: [Select]
# smartctl -a /dev/sda
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Vendor:               FUJITSU
Product:              MAW3147NC
Revision:             0104
User Capacity:        147,086,327,808 bytes [147 GB]
Logical block size:   512 bytes
Rotation Rate:        10025 rpm
Serial number:        DAA0P6801RGB
Device type:          disk
Transport protocol:   Parallel SCSI (SPI-4)
Local Time is:        Fri May 27 21:33:04 2022 -00
SMART support is:     Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is:     Enabled
Temperature Warning:  Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Health Status: OK

Current Drive Temperature:     35 C
Drive Trip Temperature:        65 C

Manufactured in week 32 of year 2006
Specified cycle count over device lifetime:  10000
Accumulated start-stop cycles:  129
Elements in grown defect list: 0

Error counter log:
           Errors Corrected by           Total   Correction     Gigabytes    Total
               ECC          rereads/    errors   algorithm      processed    uncorrected
           fast | delayed   rewrites  corrected  invocations   [10^9 bytes]  errors
read:          0       28         0         0          0      24327.545           0
write:         0       65         0         0          0       6244.290           0

Non-medium error count:      142

No self-tests have been logged

This disk is considered "acceptable", but it's not as described, it's not "brand-new" because
1) it has Non-medium error count > 1 (it means that the connection with the HBA has failed several times)
2) it has processed  24 Terabyte of data
3) probably it worked non-stop for months, 24 Terabyte of data with 129 power On/Off cycles

ok? So, that's why I say "not brand new"

This disk is the best of the whole lot, there are disks with terrible values, it may be acceptable (but not for the price I paid as "brand new") because it has ZERO "uncorrected errors" and ZERO "Elements in grown defect list".

I consider these two values as an index of hardware failure, specifically how close to death are Disk read/write heads and platters.


Am I wrong with this? What do you think?

And, isn't there any other health testing software simpler and with explicit assessment of the state of health of the hard-disk for Paypal employees to understand?

We are talking about 600 euro, and when you fill a claim and you open a dispute, Paypal wants to read documentation  :o :o :o



I used smartctl, part of the smartmontools project by Bruce Allen, Christian Franke.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline bd139

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2022, 10:31:06 pm »
Can confirm that the errors there are ECC and non medium which suggests problems with the HBA interface rather than the actual disk. Usually shitty firmware in the controller (HP I'm looking at you). They look fine to me from a "used disk" perspective.

If you paid for them as new though, show paypal the power cycle count and say they have been turned on and off 129 times and that they are definitely not new.
 
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Offline tunk

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2022, 10:32:56 pm »
You could also try this:
smartctl -t short /dev/sdX
Wait until finished, then run smartctl -a again and the
disk run time should show up in the list of self-tests
(NB: for some disks the hours will turn over at 65535).

Update Nov 24th 2022:
Just wiped some SAS drives, and the hours were stuck at
65535 (both before and after wiping which took ~2 days).
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 02:29:32 pm by tunk »
 
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Offline BrokenYugo

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2022, 01:00:36 am »
They're clearly used and were advertised as new, no need to go farther, refund or replace time.
 
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Offline edpalmer42

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2022, 02:23:40 am »
Shouldn't there be a count of power-on hours?  SATA drives report that via smartctl.
 

Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2022, 08:16:19 am »
disk{1,2,4,5,8} don't, but disk{2,3,6,7} report the following when tested with badblock

Code: [Select]
[39374.181225] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#217 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 08 00
[39374.181228] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 8 flags 0
[39374.181231] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 1, async page read
[39374.437524] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#218 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39374.437531] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#218 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 11 1f 83 98 00 00 08 00
[39374.437535] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 287277976 flags 0
[39374.437539] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 35909747, async page read
[39374.694139] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#219 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39374.694148] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#219 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 11 1f 83 98 00 00 08 00
[39374.694153] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 287277976 flags 0
[39374.694157] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 35909747, async page read
[39374.950455] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#220 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39374.950462] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#220 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 11 1f 83 98 00 00 08 00
[39374.950467] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 287277976 flags 0
[39374.950471] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 35909747, async page read
[39375.206805] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 35909747, async page read
[39375.463100] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 35909747, async page read
[39375.719385] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 35909747, async page read
[39377.769922] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#199 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39377.769929] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#199 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39377.769934] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39378.026255] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#200 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39378.026262] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#200 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39378.026265] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39378.026270] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39378.282605] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#201 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39378.282614] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#201 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39378.282618] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39378.282622] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39378.538992] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#202 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39378.539000] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#202 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39378.539004] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39378.539008] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39378.795364] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#203 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39378.795372] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#203 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39378.795375] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39378.795378] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39379.051683] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#204 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39379.051693] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#204 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39379.051698] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39379.051702] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39379.308079] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#205 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39379.308086] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#205 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39379.308090] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39379.308093] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39379.564437] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#206 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39379.564444] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#206 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 08 00 00 00 08 00
[39379.564447] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 2048 flags 0
[39379.564450] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 256, async page read
[39379.820776] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#207 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39379.820783] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#207 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39379.820786] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39379.820789] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39380.077078] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#208 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39380.077087] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#208 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39380.077091] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39380.077095] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39380.333454] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39382.896769] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#219 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39382.896781] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#219 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39382.896787] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39383.153148] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#220 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39383.153158] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#220 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39383.153163] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39383.153170] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39383.409579] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#221 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39383.409588] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#221 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 08 00
[39383.409593] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 8 flags 0
[39383.409597] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 1, async page read
[39383.665940] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#222 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39383.665948] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#222 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 08 00
[39383.665952] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 8 flags 0
[39383.665956] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 1, async page read
[39383.922295] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#223 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39383.922302] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#223 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 08 00
[39383.922305] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 8 flags 0
[39383.922309] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 1, async page read
[39384.178593] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#192 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39384.178600] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#192 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 08 00
[39384.178604] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 8 flags 0
[39384.178608] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 1, async page read
[39384.434949] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#193 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39384.434956] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#193 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 18 00 00 08 00
[39384.434959] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 24 flags 0
[39384.434962] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 3, async page read
[39384.691285] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#194 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39384.691292] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#194 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 18 00 00 08 00
[39384.691295] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 24 flags 0
[39384.691299] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 3, async page read
[39384.947577] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#195 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39384.947584] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#195 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 18 00 00 08 00
[39384.947588] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 24 flags 0
[39384.947591] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 3, async page read
[39385.203916] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#196 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39385.203923] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#196 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 18 00 00 08 00
[39385.203926] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 24 flags 0
[39385.203929] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 3, async page read
[39385.460250] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 7, async page read
[39388.023414] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#207 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39388.023423] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#207 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 08 00
[39388.023428] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 8 flags 0
[39388.279753] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#208 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39388.279759] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#208 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 08 00
[39388.279763] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 8 flags 0
[39388.279768] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 1, async page read
[39388.536087] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#209 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39388.536094] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#209 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 18 00 00 08 00
[39388.536097] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 24 flags 0
[39388.536100] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 3, async page read
[39388.792427] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#210 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39388.792436] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#210 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 18 00 00 08 00
[39388.792439] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 24 flags 0
[39388.792443] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 3, async page read
[39389.048754] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#211 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39389.048763] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#211 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 38 00 00 08 00
[39389.048767] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 56 flags 0
[39389.048771] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 7, async page read
[39389.305132] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#212 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39389.305140] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#212 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 38 00 00 08 00
[39389.305143] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 56 flags 0
[39389.305147] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 7, async page read
[39389.561501] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#213 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39389.561509] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#213 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 78 00 00 08 00
[39389.561512] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 120 flags 0
[39389.561516] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 15, async page read
[39389.817870] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#214 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39389.817878] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#214 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 78 00 00 08 00
[39389.817881] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 120 flags 0
[39389.817885] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 15, async page read
[39390.074197] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#215 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39390.074206] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#215 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39390.074211] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39390.074215] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39390.330529] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#216 UNKNOWN(0x2003) Result: hostbyte=0x01 driverbyte=0x00
[39390.330537] sd 1:0:1:0: [sda] tag#216 CDB: opcode=0x28 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[39390.330541] print_req_error: I/O error, dev sda, sector 0 flags 0
[39390.330546] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
[39390.586850] Buffer I/O error on dev sda, logical block 0, async page read
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2022, 08:21:46 am »
Shouldn't there be a count of power-on hours?  SATA drives report that via smartctl.

Yes, here it is an example, Fujitsu MHZ2120BH G, sATA

Code: [Select]
# smartctl -a /dev/sda

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Fujitsu MHZ BH
Device Model:     FUJITSU MHZ2120BH G1
Serial Number:    K64PT93260WG
LU WWN Device Id: 5 00000e 043724022
Firmware Version: 00810009
User Capacity:    120,034,123,776 bytes [120 GB]
Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 3f
SATA Version is:  SATA 2.5, 1.5 Gb/s
Local Time is:    Sat May 28 09:07:16 2022 -00
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
                                        was never started.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                (  487) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (  69) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x003d) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   100   100   046    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  2 Throughput_Performance  0x0005   100   100   030    Pre-fail  Offline      -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   100   100   025    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   091   091   000    Old_age   Always       -       40392
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   024    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   100   047    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0005   100   100   019    Pre-fail  Offline      -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   051   051   000    Old_age   Always       -       24958
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   020    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       2356
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       94
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   077   077   000    Old_age   Always       -       472338
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   100   085   000    Old_age   Always       -       51 (Min/Max 9/63)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x000f   100   100   060    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
203 Run_Out_Cancel          0x0002   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.


these two would have been interesting if only they had been implemented on the SCSI disk  :-//

Code: [Select]
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   051   051   000    Old_age   Always       -       24958
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       2356



Some disks immediately report it, some disks require "-t short"  to calculate the POH value  :-//
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 09:05:18 am by DiTBho »
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Offline sokoloff

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2022, 08:35:00 am »
If sold as brand new, I agree that I’d focus on the power cycle count (and hours where implemented) as the primary thrust of the argument.

You could include the other data (TBW, etc), saying that it corroborates the drives as not brand new, but I’d try to keep one clear and obvious line of reasoning that any customer service person can read and understand as “yeah, this isn’t new”.
 
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Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2022, 08:43:04 am »
You could also try this:
Code: [Select]
smartctl -t short /dev/sdX
Wait until finished, then run smartctl -a again and the  disk run time should show up in the list of self-tests

Code: [Select]
# smartctl -t short /dev/sda
... after 5 minutes ...
Code: [Select]
# smartctl -a /dev/sda
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Vendor:               FUJITSU
Product:              MAW3147NC
Revision:             0104
User Capacity:        147,086,327,808 bytes [147 GB]
Logical block size:   512 bytes
Rotation Rate:        10025 rpm
Serial number:        DAA0P6300NEG
Device type:          disk
Transport protocol:   Parallel SCSI (SPI-4)
Local Time is:        Sat May 28 08:41:06 2022 -00
SMART support is:     Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is:     Enabled
Temperature Warning:  Disabled or Not Supported

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Health Status: OK

Current Drive Temperature:     28 C
Drive Trip Temperature:        65 C

Manufactured in week 10 of year 2006
Specified cycle count over device lifetime:  10000
Accumulated start-stop cycles:  98
Elements in grown defect list: 0

Error counter log:
           Errors Corrected by           Total   Correction     Gigabytes    Total
               ECC          rereads/    errors   algorithm      processed    uncorrected
           fast | delayed   rewrites  corrected  invocations   [10^9 bytes]  errors
read:          0       12         0         0          0      36945.009           0
write:         0       15         0         0          0      11436.043           0

Non-medium error count:      965

SMART Self-test log
Num  Test              Status                 segment  LifeTime  LBA_first_err [SK ASC ASQ]
     Description                              number   (hours)
# 1  Background short  Completed                   -   57251                 - [-   -    -]

Long (extended) Self Test duration: 3432 seconds [57.2 minutes]


Code: [Select]
Num  Test              Status                 segment  LifeTime  LBA_first_err [SK ASC ASQ]
     Description                              number   (hours)
# 1  Background short  Completed                   -   57251                 - [-   -    -]


so the "brand new" disk has 57251 hours in its logs  :o :o :o
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 10:06:35 am by DiTBho »
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Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2022, 08:59:47 am »
Stupid me that I didn't read the feedbacks

The eBay seller apress24 seems to be used to sell used stuff as new  :o :o :o

Quote
messages
  • DiTBho: can you check that hard-disks haven't been used and are "new just opened for testing"?
  • Seller: Yes, I can confirm that they have just 1 turn on/ or even 0, depends if drive was tested or not

I trusted him! Big mistake!

Quote
eBay feedback

The seller lies in the description -> drives have 0 Power_On_Hours , but also show SMART tests that ware done at 20K, 30K or 60 000 hours. So this are not NEW or OPEN BOX drives, but OLD USED drives with cleared SMART values.
HGST UltraStar 7K4000 4TB 7.2k 64MB SATA III 3.5'' HUS724040ALE641 (#175065142498)
....

S.M.A.R.T. shows the disks have been used for over 7 years, yet sold as new, seller doesn't reply to messages about the issue. Caveat emptor
Fujitsu MAX3147NC 147GB Ultra320 80-PIN 15K RPM (#172697878385)
....

Achtung! Als angeblich "NEU" verkaufte Festplatte zeigte bereits 35817 Betriebsstunden, befindet sich also am Lebensende. / BEWARE! Supposedly "NEW" HDD already showed 35817 running hours, so it was end of life and definately not "new".
HGST Ultrastar 7K6000 2TB 7.2K 128MB SATA III 3.5'' HUS726020ALE614
....

This item was described "as new in original packaging" on delivery, it was found to be a "pull" from an old computer. The item was returned to the seller, but he did not co-operate with the shipping company. It's been in "limbo" now for over a month. And as of today, I have not received a refund. My worst transaction on eBay since I have traded for over 18 years on eBay. Avoid this seller.
IBM DORS-32160 2.1GB 5.4k SCSI 46H6135 3.5'' S26361-H281-V100 (#173756882675)

« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 09:33:21 am by DiTBho »
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Offline bd139

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2022, 09:07:49 am »
Have found the best thing to do is to pay with eBay pay directly not through PayPal and use a credit card or Apple Pay. EBay are mortally afraid of you raising a chargeback. Just chuck it in a box, return it and sent it tracked. Ignore the seller comms entirely past telling them you are rejecting the goods. 

Notable NEVER buy anything consumable on eBay. It’s hard enough finding stuff on Amazon that isn’t used (just got an unsealed box Samsung 1TB evo plus this morning which was shipped from Amazon :palm: )
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 09:09:51 am by bd139 »
 
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Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2022, 09:31:02 am »
If sold as brand new, I agree that I’d focus on the power cycle count (and hours where implemented) as the primary thrust of the argument.

You could include the other data (TBW, etc), saying that it corroborates the drives as not brand new, but I’d try to keep one clear and obvious line of reasoning that any customer service person can read and understand as “yeah, this isn’t new”.

Yes, thank you!

I opened this topic because I needed a tool or a procedure to check the health of disks and produce a document.

I think the "smart -t short" is a great trick to get the "LifeTime" value of the disk reported in a log  :D

This way, I will create a pdf-document with all the log from disk-testing and a resuming table like this

Code: [Select]
disk_ID , serial number , LifeTime    , Power_Cycle_Count , note                       ;
#7      , DAA0P6300NEG  , 57251 hours , 98                , used disk with 57251 hours ;

Pdf structure:

page01: messages with the seller, where he declared "band new disks"
page02: resuming table of tests on the received disks
page03: some feedbacks on eBay, proving it's his behavior pattern
page04: test procedure with some photos
page05: disk1 log
page06: disk2 log
page07: disk3 log
page08: disk4 log
page09: disk5 log
page10: disk6 log
page11: disk7 log
page12: disk8 log


It should be enough for them, I think and hope :-//
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Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2022, 09:59:35 am »
Notable NEVER buy anything consumable on eBay

Yup, the problem in my case is where? to find SCA-SCSI disks  :-//

sATA and SAS disks are easier to find, but with SCSI ... well, you have to trust the seller.
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Offline tunk

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2022, 10:00:58 am »
Out of curiosity, you could try this to see if there's any data on the disks:
od -Ad -tc /dev/sdX | more
 

Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2022, 10:04:40 am »
Out of curiosity, you could try this to see if there's any data on the disks:
od -Ad -tc /dev/sdX | more

All Wiped.
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Offline bd139

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2022, 11:30:30 am »
Notable NEVER buy anything consumable on eBay

Yup, the problem in my case is where? to find SCA-SCSI disks  :-//

sATA and SAS disks are easier to find, but with SCSI ... well, you have to trust the seller.

I’d replace the device or the backplane  :-DD
 

Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2022, 01:46:19 pm »
I’d replace the device or the backplane  :-DD

Cables, terminators, and backplane are brand new. Professional kits.
The setup works perfectly with smaller (8GB) Fujtsu disks.

Device ... which one? These crappy disks? Sure, they are crappy used with hounded hours of usage and close to death.


In conclusion: I'd replace the seller  ;D
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Online Monkeh

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2022, 02:20:51 pm »
I'd replace the buyer expecting to find 2006 era hardware in unused condition and believing what sellers on eBay claim.
 
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Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2022, 02:40:56 pm »
I'd replace the buyer expecting to find 2006 era hardware in unused condition and believing what sellers on eBay claim.

One months ago, for a different project, I bought seven hard-drives from a different seller. We are still talking about 2004-2008 era hardware. Unfortunately they don't have SCA-SCSI disks on stock, only 68pin (u160 an u320), anyway I got them *EXACTLY* as described:
- low LifeTime hours (<20)
- low StartStopCycles (<10)
- zero error


When you pay 75 euro for each disk, the price couldn't be justified for used disks with several hundred hours of activity, because with these values, disks are not even close to "brand new" but rather close to "end of life"!

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Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2022, 02:56:55 pm »
unused condition and believing what sellers on eBay claim.

ummm, and for example old new stocks? Newarks sold me some old boards in mint condition.
but, I seriously wonder, if that's the way to think, what are we doing on eBay? Stupid games?


I honestly don't like the way people like you think, because you assume it's okay to have shitty sellers on eBay, so the only idiot is supposed to be someone like me who trusts them!

Well, for me eBay is serious business, with seriousness sellers and serious buyers, hence all a matter of trust and respect.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2022, 03:41:38 pm »
unused condition and believing what sellers on eBay claim.

ummm, and for example old new stocks? Newarks sold me some old boards in mint condition.
but, I seriously wonder, if that's the way to think, what are we doing on eBay? Stupid games?


I honestly don't like the way people like you think, because you assume it's okay to have shitty sellers on eBay, so the only idiot is supposed to be someone like me who trusts them!

Well, for me eBay is serious business, with seriousness sellers and serious buyers, hence all a matter of trust and respect.

I assume there's always someone out to scam me to make a buck, yes, it's called life experience. I never said it's okay - it's just reality.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2022, 05:19:46 pm »
Actually been thinking about this. Why are you buying these disks and spending €600 on the damn things?!?!?  You could buy a couple of mid range 1TB SSDs and RAID those for less money. And they are far faster, have a higher MTBF, take less power and have better failure modes.  :-//
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 05:21:17 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2022, 05:42:15 pm »
You could buy a couple of mid range 1TB SSDs and RAID those for less money

I have a vintage hardware project in mind and it can work with neither sATA nor SAS.
I have to play with SCSI HBAs, hence with SCSI disks.

The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2022, 05:52:39 pm »
Ah explained. Fair enough  :-+

I'd have noped that idea away super quick as I am recently allergic to anything which involves friction or risk :-DD
 

Offline james_s

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Re: tools to understand when a hard drive is close to death
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2022, 06:08:39 pm »
I'd have noped that idea away super quick as I am recently allergic to anything which involves friction or risk :-DD

Is there anything in life that doesn't involve friction or risk?
 
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