Author Topic: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion  (Read 4802 times)

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Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« on: December 03, 2024, 07:16:24 am »
This seems like a simple question, but the answer doesn't appear to be completely clear. I need to order a monitor, that will work with both PC and Mac laptops (both via the USB-C "type" port).

Obviously some modern Macs have Thunderbolt interfaces, PC's don't. I need to be able to drive the display, charge the laptop and access the monitor's USB hub, all via 1 single USB-C/Thunderbolt cable.
I currently do this with a M2 MacBook Air paired with a Lenovo ThinkVision T27p10 monitor. It works a treat.

That being said, if I want to support newer MacBooks and PCs alike in the same way, do I need a monitor with USB-C input or a monitor with ThunderBolt input? From the research I've done, I need the former.

In other words will a Thunderbolt source work with a non-Thunderbolt display, or is the opposite true?

Life was much easier when if the plug fit, the thing worked.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 07:20:03 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline Sorama

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2024, 07:39:18 am »
It does not matter.
I use a Thunderbolt output on my Mac mini to hook on to a non mac display (aoc) with usb C input.
 

Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2024, 08:10:43 am »
It does not matter.
I use a Thunderbolt output on my Mac mini to hook on to a non mac display (aoc) with usb C input.

This is where the advice seems to get murky. Some say it does matter and some monitor manufacturers are producing monitors in both flavours.

The collective advice and research leads me to believe that, generally speaking:
- A Thunderbolt source will work with both a Thunderbolt and DP over USB-C monitor.
- A USB-C (non-Thunderbolt) source will only work with a USB-C monitor.

This is what I'm trying to confirm.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 08:15:50 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2024, 08:12:42 am »
USB-C is just a connector.

If something advertises that it supports sending or receiving video over USB-C then that means it supports DisplayPort Alternate Mode. You might see a DP symbol beside the connector, but anyway if it does video then it will do DisplayPort.

Things that do Thunderbolt 3/4 over USB-C support higher speeds and the protocol is actually PCIe. Thunderbolt devices can always connect to a DP device at the other end (at lower performance).
 

Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2024, 08:14:52 am »
USB-C is just a connector.

If something advertises that it supports sending or receiving video over USB-C then that means it supports DisplayPort Alternate Mode. You might see a DP symbol beside the connector, but anyway if it does video then it will do DisplayPort.

Things that do Thunderbolt 3/4 over USB-C support higher speeds and the protocol is actually PCIe. Thunderbolt devices can always connect to a DP device at the other end (at lower performance).

Thanks. I understand that and this seems to be confirming what I believe (above). So for overall compatibility, I should be choosing a USB-C/DisplayPort monitor, not Thunderbolt.
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2024, 08:15:15 am »
Would a non-thunderbolt output work on a Thunderbolt monitor?

Yes. And a Thunderbolt output with work with a non-Thunderbolt monitor.

It's just that you only 10-20 Gbps DisplayPort speeds in both cases, not the higher 40 Gbps Thunderbolt speed.
 
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Offline abeyer

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Offline brucehoult

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2024, 09:57:18 am »
Thanks. I understand that and this seems to be confirming what I believe (above). So for overall compatibility, I should be choosing a USB-C/DisplayPort monitor, not Thunderbolt.

??

That doesn't follow.

I mean ... it will work with everything, but so will a monitor with Thunderbolt.

The monitor with Thunderbolt will work even better with a computer with Thunderbolt, but it will work with any computer with USB-C.

Non-Thunderbolt is usually cheaper, so if you don't need the higher performance (more pixels, more FPS) then sure DP is fine.

Either kind can be a USB-C hub to plug other devices into, but a Thunderbolt monitor will allow high transfer speeds to SSD disks etc.
 

Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2024, 10:52:59 am »
PC's don't

Maybe your PC doesn't.... https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/accessories/thunderboltex-4/

OK sure. You can buy Thunderbolt expansion cards. I'm specifically talking about laptops.

Thanks. I understand that and this seems to be confirming what I believe (above). So for overall compatibility, I should be choosing a USB-C/DisplayPort monitor, not Thunderbolt.

??

That doesn't follow.

I mean ... it will work with everything, but so will a monitor with Thunderbolt.

The monitor with Thunderbolt will work even better with a computer with Thunderbolt, but it will work with any computer with USB-C.

Non-Thunderbolt is usually cheaper, so if you don't need the higher performance (more pixels, more FPS) then sure DP is fine.

Either kind can be a USB-C hub to plug other devices into, but a Thunderbolt monitor will allow high transfer speeds to SSD disks etc.


I've read reports of interoperability issues with each other. It seems to be the case of "it depends".
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2024, 11:14:33 am »
PC's don't
Maybe your PC doesn't.... https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/accessories/thunderboltex-4/
OK sure. You can buy Thunderbolt expansion cards. I'm specifically talking about laptops.
So the original statement:
Obviously some modern Macs have Thunderbolt interfaces, PC's don't.
Pretty much all of that is exaggeration/incorrect:
Every single mac shipping right now has thunderbolt (not some).
Many "PC" laptops have thunderbolt, even cheaper business tier portables (and pretty much all workstations).
It has been this way for years.

Recent USB versions are subsets of Thunderbolt, but for backwards compatibility USB-C monitors are more universal.
 
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Offline Sorama

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2024, 11:37:40 am »
Actually, Thunderbolt was developed by Apple and Intel (intel now has all the rights) and in the beginning (v1 & v2) was used by means of a DisplayPort cable.

Thunderbolt v3 uses a usb C cable and is able to not only transfer audio and image, but also data.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2024, 11:51:31 am by Sorama »
 
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Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2024, 11:40:24 am »
PC's don't
Maybe your PC doesn't.... https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/accessories/thunderboltex-4/
OK sure. You can buy Thunderbolt expansion cards. I'm specifically talking about laptops.
So the original statement:
Obviously some modern Macs have Thunderbolt interfaces, PC's don't.
Pretty much all of that is exaggeration/incorrect:
Every single mac shipping right now has thunderbolt (not some).
Many "PC" laptops have thunderbolt, even cheaper business tier portables (and pretty much all workstations).
It has been this way for years.

Recent USB versions are subsets of Thunderbolt, but for backwards compatibility USB-C monitors are more universal.

You are correct. And I stand corrected, even my M2 Mac which I still consider current, has Thunderbolt 3.

The issue is, I do have older PC laptops which whilst superseded by today's standards, are still in use. I need to cater for those. Those definitely don't have Thunderbolt, so I'm looking for the best of both worlds. None of this is going to be used for gaming, so anything above 60hz is mostly pointless.
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2024, 05:46:57 pm »
In any case: thunderbolt displays will work with USB type C ports that support video and USB-C monitors work with thunderbolt hosts.

The only issue with USB type C is that the max bandwidth is less and also can be partitioned less flexibly than thunderbolt.  This makes thunderbolt better for multi monitor and docking stations where you want multiple high speed devices sharing the link.
 

Offline Squarewave

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2024, 07:16:54 pm »
Some modern PCs have thunderbolt, my HP does.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2024, 07:25:46 pm »
OK sure. You can buy Thunderbolt expansion cards. I'm specifically talking about laptops.

My Dell laptop has two Thunderbolt 4 ports and also a USB-C port with DP-alt mode.
 

Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2024, 06:33:27 am »
OK sure. You can buy Thunderbolt expansion cards. I'm specifically talking about laptops.

My Dell laptop has two Thunderbolt 4 ports and also a USB-C port with DP-alt mode.

Seems it's more popular than I originally thought. I concede.
 

Online tooki

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2024, 09:02:17 am »
Obviously some modern Macs have Thunderbolt interfaces, PC's don't. I need to be able to drive the display, charge the laptop and access the monitor's USB hub, all via 1 single USB-C/Thunderbolt cable.
Many PCs today have Thunderbolt, too — Thunderbolt is developed primarily by Intel, after all! Consequently it’s very common on PCs with Intel chipsets. It is much rarer on AMD chipsets.

Anyhow, what you want is no problem. A Thunderbolt 3 or 4 port is also USB-C.

A Thunderbolt device (disk array, display, etc) works only on a Thunderbolt-equipped computer. But a USB-C display will work on USB-C ports and Thunderbolt-enabled USB-C ports.

(AFAIK, USB 4 largely eliminates this distinction, as it formally incorporates Thunderbolt into USB. I think there are some minor differences. I’d have to look into it more.)
 

Online tooki

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2024, 09:05:53 am »
Thanks. I understand that and this seems to be confirming what I believe (above). So for overall compatibility, I should be choosing a USB-C/DisplayPort monitor, not Thunderbolt.

??

That doesn't follow.

I mean ... it will work with everything, but so will a monitor with Thunderbolt.

The monitor with Thunderbolt will work even better with a computer with Thunderbolt, but it will work with any computer with USB-C.
It probably depends on the precise implementation, but my understanding is that Thunderbolt displays fundamentally cannot be expected to work on a “plain” USB-C port.
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2024, 09:56:56 am »
I have a Thunderbolt dock at home, that I use with my work laptop. I plugged in my home laptop that only has USB-C, USB 3.1 or something into it. It was one of this: "I wonder if it works" questions. It did. And then when I disconnected it the laptop BSOD. So I suggest getting compatible things and don't rely on chance and other people experience.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2024, 10:06:44 am »
don't rely on chance and other people experience.
Other peoples experience, when that is specific model of computer and specific model of peripheral is often the best thing to rely on!
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2024, 10:24:19 am »
According to internet, Apple's 27" 5K Studio display, for example, works with non-Apple PCs with ThunderBolt 3/4 at 5120x2680 @60 but will also work at lower resolution with DP Alt Mode on USB-C.
 

Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2024, 11:02:37 am »
According to internet, Apple's 27" 5K Studio display, for example, works with non-Apple PCs with ThunderBolt 3/4 at 5120x2680 @60 but will also work at lower resolution with DP Alt Mode on USB-C.

For the price of an Apple Studio display, I'd expect it to do that as a minimum, and make me coffee in the morning!
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2024, 11:33:19 am »
don't rely on chance and other people experience.
Other peoples experience, when that is specific model of computer and specific model of peripheral is often the best thing to rely on!
Until you get a firmware or windows or apple update and it breaks it all.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2024, 11:40:04 am by tszaboo »
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2024, 11:46:20 am »
According to internet, Apple's 27" 5K Studio display, for example, works with non-Apple PCs with ThunderBolt 3/4 at 5120x2680 @60 but will also work at lower resolution with DP Alt Mode on USB-C.

For the price of an Apple Studio display, I'd expect it to do that as a minimum, and make me coffee in the morning!

It's worth getting a good monitor. It's what your eyes are looking at 8 or 12 or 16 hours a day. It's something you can use for a decade or more, with as many different computer upgrades as you want.
 

Offline Postal2

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Re: Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2024, 12:02:52 pm »
... It's worth getting a good monitor. It's what your eyes are looking at 8 or 12 or 16 hours a day. ...
You know my monitor. I recently checked my vision on an automatic machine, it turned out to be not very good, namely 0.45/0.75 (correction no/yes). But I don't feel discomfort and don't wear glasses.
 


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