USB 3 and old folk

[MrMobodies]

You can switch off "App stuff" from automatically installing in Group policy editor

Ah.  "Group Policy Editor" would be one of the things not included in "W10 Home"...(although it looks like you can download and install it without needing the "Pro" upgrade.)

The last time I used group policy editor in Windows 10 pro (from an I5 I found down the skip) and it looked like whatever settings I set with the updates got simply ignored and then I got brutal and super annoyed:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows-10-update-aggro/

I realised that this is not the way, install an update and might undo stuff and with group policy not being honored not good enough now I have a 2016 LTSB on there but that was a lot of work removing stuff.

I believe the attached images of group policies below might be responsible for the app store stuff like install a printer on web services (did that once by accident) and "the app" gets download automatically and placed in start menu "apps" which is not what I wanted and accessing the print queue and some silly thing is put in the way where I have click "see what's printing".

Also I think I found another couple of policies last 2 pictures that might install stuff if unset.

[james_s]

If somebody goes out of their way to set something like that, they need to stop trying to override the users wishes, just stop! A person who wishes that level of control over their PC is not just going to give in, they're going to take ever more drastic steps to take control, likely completely negating the intent of the update.

[GlennSprigg]

All backwards compat as everyone has said. but to ease your mind...
I recently purchased a new notebook for the 'missus', which still has 2 'normal' USB ports, and the new 'Type-C' port. This Type-C port
doesn't care which way up you plug things in, and is gearing towards all new hardware eventually using that connector. However, I also
purchased an adaptor, 'like' in the following link, which gives you 4 more 'normal' USB ports anyway! There are many, and cheap...

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/aze-4-usb-30-multi-hub-charging-port-multiport-adapter-high-speed-expansion-windows-mac-pc-vcom-9100221000019/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_listing_ads&gclid=CjwKCAjwg4-EBhBwEiwAzYAlsvMbU2ZgpvrvjLh66KVJi-qpcqBiqWTEyunS8_WZw29QOhHmoBGnyBoCw5sQAvD_BwE

[SilverSolder]

Adaptors are great...   Until you don't have one to hand!

[gnuarm]

Adaptors are great...   Until you don't have one to hand!

Bah!  Even with adapters, you can have issues with the technology.  I wanted to use a neighbor's printer.  But he doesn't have a computer connected to the printer, using an iPhone and iPad instead.  My file was on a USB stick.  He had an adapter for the USB C port on his iPad, but neither of us knew enough about the iStuff to know how to access the durn drive!  I found two or three apps that would read a PDF, but the interface is so different from a PC that I couldn't find a way to access the file system!  I need an OS adapter!

I know on my android phone the files are not organized remotely like a PC.  I have a micro flash card in the phone that barely gets used because of that.  Maybe I need to go back to school. 

[SilverSolder]

Adaptors are great...   Until you don't have one to hand!

Bah!  Even with adapters, you can have issues with the technology.  I wanted to use a neighbor's printer.  But he doesn't have a computer connected to the printer, using an iPhone and iPad instead.  My file was on a USB stick.  He had an adapter for the USB C port on his iPad, but neither of us knew enough about the iStuff to know how to access the durn drive!  I found two or three apps that would read a PDF, but the interface is so different from a PC that I couldn't find a way to access the file system!  I need an OS adapter!

I know on my android phone the files are not organized remotely like a PC.  I have a micro flash card in the phone that barely gets used because of that.  Maybe I need to go back to school.

I put a FTP server on my Android device...  That helped a lot, as you can then walk the file system from the PC (with e.g. a FileZilla client) instead of a fiddly little screen...   I managed to find pictures and music, which are what takes up all the space anyway!

[GlennSprigg]

To 'gnuarm',  Can't you just email the iPhone/iPad recipient, with an attachment containing the file to be printed??   

[gnuarm]

To 'gnuarm',  Can't you just email the iPhone/iPad recipient, with an attachment containing the file to be printed??   

Not if the USB stick won't plug into my phone and my computer is not present.  When my friend said I could use his printer it never occurred to me he wouldn't have it connected to a computer I could plug the memory stick into.  He has two laptops that I saw, but I guess he doesn't use them much and they aren't connected to his printer which it would seem uses wifi (equals messy set up).  This was explained in my post pretty clearly. 

File on USB memory stick, no way to get USB memory stick into a device that was connected to the printer.   

[Berni]

I put a FTP server on my Android device...  That helped a lot, as you can then walk the file system from the PC (with e.g. a FileZilla client) instead of a fiddly little screen...   I managed to find pictures and music, which are what takes up all the space anyway!

Yes for some silly reason a lot of Android distros don't include damn file manager, or include some basic barely functional one made by the phone manufacturer.

I just install Total Commander on my phone and that works well. It lets you browse pretty much anywhere you like including the root filesystem (but with user privileges obviously). Don't think it has anything to do with the TotalComander for Windows that many old PC users might remeber, but it is a file manager with the same sort of design goal of being no bullshit and as functional as possible rather than trying to look pretty.

But yeah Apple throws the usual concept of a filesystem out the window with iOS, going instead for each app having a walled garden of storage, so if you want to fetch a photo from storage you ask the gallery app to give it to you. For a long time it was not even possible to connect a iPhone to a PC without having iTunes installed. If you wanted to transfer any files it had to be trough putting them in a special sync folder and syncing them across. I found its easier to get files on it by installing the dropbox app and using that. There does exist a cable that converts from Lighting to USB-A host, but back when i tried one of these cables, all it could do is run a import wizard to import photos or music from a USB drive into internal storage.

This idea with iOS is probably to cater to the many computer literate people that don't understand the concept of a filesystem. The sort of uses that save files to the desktop or "My Documents" and they don't realize this is merely a special folder on the C drive. Even microsoft themselves is pushing this sort of use case since the last few versions of Office don't display the classical Win32 save file dialog window when you click save, but instead open up this weird full screen menu that lets you directly save to some popular places or the cloud or whatever, once you press browse on that menu is when you get your usual file dialog window where you can tell it exactly where in your filesystem to save something.

[SilverSolder]

I put a FTP server on my Android device...  That helped a lot, as you can then walk the file system from the PC (with e.g. a FileZilla client) instead of a fiddly little screen...   I managed to find pictures and music, which are what takes up all the space anyway!

Yes for some silly reason a lot of Android distros don't include damn file manager, or include some basic barely functional one made by the phone manufacturer.

I use ES File Explorer, haven't tried Total Commander -  the name is definitely a blast from the past! 

[...] For a long time it was not even possible to connect a iPhone to a PC without having iTunes installed. [...]

Is it even possible today?  If so, how?  I know someone that is being driven crazy by not being able to off-load movie files from their iPad to their PC...

This idea with iOS is probably to cater to the many computer literate people that don't understand the concept of a filesystem. The sort of uses that save files to the desktop or "My Documents" and they don't realize this is merely a special folder on the C drive.
Even microsoft themselves is pushing this sort of use case since the last few versions of Office don't display the classical Win32 save file dialog window when you click save, but instead open up this weird full screen menu that lets you directly save to some popular places or the cloud or whatever, once you press browse on that menu is when you get your usual file dialog window where you can tell it exactly where in your filesystem to save something.

Yes, now you have to click several things to get to save your file, instead of just once.  It is a constant annoyance.

I think you are right, "they" have figured out that many (most) n00b users have problems understanding a file system.  So that means the concept has to be removed from everyone, in order to not make the n00bs feel bad about themselves for being n00bs! 

[gnuarm]

I put a FTP server on my Android device...  That helped a lot, as you can then walk the file system from the PC (with e.g. a FileZilla client) instead of a fiddly little screen...   I managed to find pictures and music, which are what takes up all the space anyway!

Yes for some silly reason a lot of Android distros don't include damn file manager, or include some basic barely functional one made by the phone manufacturer.

I just install Total Commander on my phone and that works well. It lets you browse pretty much anywhere you like including the root filesystem (but with user privileges obviously). Don't think it has anything to do with the TotalComander for Windows that many old PC users might remeber, but it is a file manager with the same sort of design goal of being no bullshit and as functional as possible rather than trying to look pretty.

My phone seems to have none.  I will try TotalComander.  Thanks.

But yeah Apple throws the usual concept of a filesystem out the window with iOS, going instead for each app having a walled garden of storage, so if you want to fetch a photo from storage you ask the gallery app to give it to you. For a long time it was not even possible to connect a iPhone to a PC without having iTunes installed. If you wanted to transfer any files it had to be trough putting them in a special sync folder and syncing them across. I found its easier to get files on it by installing the dropbox app and using that. There does exist a cable that converts from Lighting to USB-A host, but back when i tried one of these cables, all it could do is run a import wizard to import photos or music from a USB drive into internal storage.

But iOS should be able to read a USB stick, or there's no point in having one!  I'm printing another page today, so I've emailed it to my friend.  I don't expect any trouble with that, but if there is, I'll try finding gallery.

This idea with iOS is probably to cater to the many computer literate people that don't understand the concept of a filesystem. The sort of uses that save files to the desktop or "My Documents" and they don't realize this is merely a special folder on the C drive. Even microsoft themselves is pushing this sort of use case since the last few versions of Office don't display the classical Win32 save file dialog window when you click save, but instead open up this weird full screen menu that lets you directly save to some popular places or the cloud or whatever, once you press browse on that menu is when you get your usual file dialog window where you can tell it exactly where in your filesystem to save something.

I get the idea and I'm not opposed to it.  If it's going to be for the masses it should be intuitive enough even a skilled computer user can figure it out.  Windows is not great by any means, but over the years and iterations they have honed off the rough edges.  One nice thing they do is when a flash drive is inserted it gives you choices as to what to do.  The iPad just gave me a blank look, like a pretty woman who couldn't get a high school diploma.  (I guess I should say "pretty man/woman")

[Berni]

But iOS should be able to read a USB stick, or there's no point in having one!  I'm printing another page today, so I've emailed it to my friend.  I don't expect any trouble with that, but if there is, I'll try finding gallery.

Well it does read it. Just instead of showing up as a filesystem it, it rather asks you what photos you want to download from it and then proceeds to copy them. Why? I have no idea, i guess i just don't know how to 'Think different'

Plugging an USB thumb drive into an android phone just makes it show up as another folder in the filesystem... like a normal person would expect on Linux.

[...] For a long time it was not even possible to connect a iPhone to a PC without having iTunes installed. [...]

Is it even possible today?  If so, how?  I know someone that is being driven crazy by not being able to off-load movie files from their iPad to their PC...

There is a setting somewhere that makes iPhones show up as something along the lines of a USB portable digital camera and lets you browse files on it. It wont let you get to everything but you can see photos and some stuff. However i don't think you can actually copy any files onto the phone this way.


I had phones running Windows Mobile from back in 2003 (4 years before the first iphone was created) and they did use this Microsoft ActiveSync thing over USB, so much like iTunes, but more functional. Yet you could still configure the phone to pretend it is a USB thumb drive and you could copy files in both directions however you wanted. Since the full sized SD card was also hot swapable i actually used this phone as a SD card reader a few times, since the card contests also just show up as USB storage in the same way it would in a actual card reader. Windows mobile also came with a file manager as part of the OS so there was no need to install a third party one. Also the 'app screen' was fully customizable just because its simply showing the contents of the StartMenu folder on the system drive (Just like regular windows does). Android didn't have that from the beginning but later got it, iPhones only recently got this feature. But it seams the UI was not understandable to the general public. If i let someone use my phone to call someone they never knew how to use it because it was different to what they expect from a phone, since it acts more like a miniature PC Windows OS. So once iPhone and Android got popular they wanted to fit in and threw away the whole OS then make Windows Phone 7 from the ground up to be a Android copycat... we all know how well that went.

[SilverSolder]

But iOS should be able to read a USB stick, or there's no point in having one!  I'm printing another page today, so I've emailed it to my friend.  I don't expect any trouble with that, but if there is, I'll try finding gallery.

Well it does read it. Just instead of showing up as a filesystem it, it rather asks you what photos you want to download from it and then proceeds to copy them. Why? I have no idea, i guess i just don't know how to 'Think different'

Plugging an USB thumb drive into an android phone just makes it show up as another folder in the filesystem... like a normal person would expect on Linux.

[...] For a long time it was not even possible to connect a iPhone to a PC without having iTunes installed. [...]

Is it even possible today?  If so, how?  I know someone that is being driven crazy by not being able to off-load movie files from their iPad to their PC...

There is a setting somewhere that makes iPhones show up as something along the lines of a USB portable digital camera and lets you browse files on it. It wont let you get to everything but you can see photos and some stuff. However i don't think you can actually copy any files onto the phone this way.


I had phones running Windows Mobile from back in 2003 (4 years before the first iphone was created) and they did use this Microsoft ActiveSync thing over USB, so much like iTunes, but more functional. Yet you could still configure the phone to pretend it is a USB thumb drive and you could copy files in both directions however you wanted. Since the full sized SD card was also hot swapable i actually used this phone as a SD card reader a few times, since the card contests also just show up as USB storage in the same way it would in a actual card reader. Windows mobile also came with a file manager as part of the OS so there was no need to install a third party one. Also the 'app screen' was fully customizable just because its simply showing the contents of the StartMenu folder on the system drive (Just like regular windows does). Android didn't have that from the beginning but later got it, iPhones only recently got this feature. But it seams the UI was not understandable to the general public. If i let someone use my phone to call someone they never knew how to use it because it was different to what they expect from a phone, since it acts more like a miniature PC Windows OS. So once iPhone and Android got popular they wanted to fit in and threw away the whole OS then make Windows Phone 7 from the ground up to be a Android copycat... we all know how well that went.

Imagine if they had stuck with it, and majored on being compatible, instead of trying (and failing) to copy the "dumb blonde" devices...

[gnuarm]

But iOS should be able to read a USB stick, or there's no point in having one!  I'm printing another page today, so I've emailed it to my friend.  I don't expect any trouble with that, but if there is, I'll try finding gallery.

Well it does read it. Just instead of showing up as a filesystem it, it rather asks you what photos you want to download from it and then proceeds to copy them. Why? I have no idea, i guess i just don't know how to 'Think different'

It did nothing when plugged into my friend's iPad.  Maybe the adapter wasn't working then.  Don't know.

Plugging an USB thumb drive into an android phone just makes it show up as another folder in the filesystem... like a normal person would expect on Linux.

I suppose, but I haven't found a way to navagate the file system under Android, or maybe it's that I just don't know how to do that.  I have a PDF file from an email and I get no option under Gmail to save it, just opening it with apps.  I choose "Drive PDF Viewer" and it also gives me one option for where to save it, "My Drive" where ever that is.  A second viewer, Foxit seems to offer only Device or Cloud without options for directories.

That's why I continue to use my PC as the main and only work tool for communications other than actual voice calls.

[SilverSolder]

But iOS should be able to read a USB stick, or there's no point in having one!  I'm printing another page today, so I've emailed it to my friend.  I don't expect any trouble with that, but if there is, I'll try finding gallery.

Well it does read it. Just instead of showing up as a filesystem it, it rather asks you what photos you want to download from it and then proceeds to copy them. Why? I have no idea, i guess i just don't know how to 'Think different'

It did nothing when plugged into my friend's iPad.  Maybe the adapter wasn't working then.  Don't know.

Plugging an USB thumb drive into an android phone just makes it show up as another folder in the filesystem... like a normal person would expect on Linux.

I suppose, but I haven't found a way to navagate the file system under Android, or maybe it's that I just don't know how to do that.  I have a PDF file from an email and I get no option under Gmail to save it, just opening it with apps.  I choose "Drive PDF Viewer" and it also gives me one option for where to save it, "My Drive" where ever that is.  A second viewer, Foxit seems to offer only Device or Cloud without options for directories.

That's why I continue to use my PC as the main and only work tool for communications other than actual voice calls.

An Android file system looks a lot like a Windows file system (once you have a decent file browser),  the only issue is finding where the files are stored?

The SD card can be formatted FAT32, or ExFAT, compatible with Windows...

[Bassman59]

But yeah Apple throws the usual concept of a filesystem out the window with iOS, going instead for each app having a walled garden of storage, so if you want to fetch a photo from storage you ask the gallery app to give it to you. For a long time it was not even possible to connect a iPhone to a PC without having iTunes installed. If you wanted to transfer any files it had to be trough putting them in a special sync folder and syncing them across. I found its easier to get files on it by installing the dropbox app and using that. There does exist a cable that converts from Lighting to USB-A host, but back when i tried one of these cables, all it could do is run a import wizard to import photos or music from a USB drive into internal storage.

Your knowledge of iOS is obsolete.

iOS 11, five years ago, introduced a file system manager called (in Apple's usual understated way) the Files app. It works pretty much as you expect. At the top level it shows Locations such as "On My iPhone" and "iCloud Drive" and even "Downloads." You can even connect to a remote server -- see the picture of my iPhone connected to my MacBook Pro.

By default, apps save their files in obvious places, such as Numbers saving spreadsheets in a Numbers directory. But you can actually save files anywhere you want.

iPadOS also allows the use of external storage. If you have an iPad with the Lightning connector, you can use the Camera connector dongle which exposes a USB port and connect USB storage to that, or if you have one of the newer iPads with USB-C or now Thunderbolt-4, the standard cables can connect to USB storage.

So, yeah, if you're going to make sweeping statements about how you can't do this or that, maybe you should find out if what you are saying is true before posting, mmmkay?

[SilverSolder]

[...]  If you have an iPad with the Lightning connector, you can use the Camera connector dongle which exposes a USB port and connect USB storage to that[...]

Are there any limitations with this, such as only exposing certain directories and/or file types - or can I equip my wife with one of those dongles and solve her problem of getting data from her iPad to her PC?

So far, I haven't found a solution to this problem, despite looking on and off for probably 5 years...  I'm probably overlooking something obvious...