USB hubs don't work on windows 10

[Simon]

I seem to have problems with any USB hub I plug into my PC. For example I wanted to put all receivers for HID devices on one PC part with a HUB but they keep getting "ejected" and them re-acquired. I have come to the conclusion that maybe it is not the hub's but either windows 10 or the motherboard ( X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING ).

Anyone have any experience? I have come to the conclusion that I just need to stuff every PCIe 1x slot with a USB expansion card.

[CJay]

Does the hub itself get 'ejected' or just the devices on it?

Is it specific to a device class or just anything?

Have seen something similar with Win 10 which turned out to be a driver issue after a Windows update.

Afraid I rarely have the patience to document the pre and post versions when it's a single PC* so all I did was blunderbuss it with the driver updater tool provided by the manufacturer** and it was resolved

*If it's a work problem and it affects more than three or four machines I'll document the hell out of it and work up a process for cascade to all sites.

** HP, their now deprecated Softpaq Download manager is a really useful tool, it did a BIOS update too which may have been relevant.

[Halcyon]

Can't say I have. We routinely use USB hubs at work on Windows 10 without major issues. However occasionally, USB interfaces will randomly stop working until a reboot.

I have come to the conclusion that Windows 10 is a buggy piece of shit (expert opinion which I will gladly give in court).

[Simon]

I have come to the conclusion that Windows 10 is a buggy piece of shit (expert opinion which I will gladly give in court).

Likewise but I don't want to have to became a linux guru to use linux. I just want an operating system that works, what it is is beyond my concern now but unfortunately windows still wins.

It's just single devices that get ejected and they were all logitech. So the mouse would suddenly stop, then the USB unplug noise then wait, the plug in noise and we are off again. Take the hub out and it's fine.

[PKTKS]

I have come to the conclusion that Windows 10 is a buggy piece of shit (expert opinion which I will gladly give in court).

Likewise but I don't want to have to became a linux guru to use linux. I just want an operating system that works, what it is is beyond my concern now but unfortunately windows still wins.
(..)

Try MINT...

I had deployed MINT for users just like that with great success.

It does fill that gap where you want something "just as"
while not dedicating time and effort to leverage...

And they boast gladly that they are now using linux.

period

Paul

[Simon]

Will it handle 3x 4k monitors on an AMD RX5500XT card. Dealing with the resolution issues? this was my latest peeve.

I can't abandon windows entirely and last time i tried linux I had libre office claiming that my libre office files were corrupt when in fact they were not and it was because you have to change the default of files opening with "libre office" to the actual libre office application.

[PKTKS]

Will it handle 3x 4k monitors on an AMD RX5500XT card. Dealing with the resolution issues? this was my latest peeve.

I can't abandon windows entirely and last time i tried linux I had libre office claiming that my libre office files were corrupt when in fact they were not and it was because you have to change the default of files opening with "libre office" to the actual libre office application.

The answer is: DEPENDS.

YES - it will work just fine with 3 4 or more monitors because Xwindows
can handle a hell of a lot more features than this simple request.

YES the drivers for RADEON boards are pretty good and stable
but if you request a bunch of "features"  from the vanilla drivers
you hit the problems that vendor support is entirely different
from the paid drivers bundled in MS.

The proprietary AMD drivers are still way too much crippled
by closed source and problems of compatible applets may arise.

Nevertheless you will run with vanilla drivers everything you
need  *just* with a performance penalty by not having vendor open
support.

Things like "security" and networked displays are above this entry
level but I HAVE NO ISSUES RUNNING AMD RX boards on fully installed
X servers... networked ... accelerated and even remotely managed.

MINT does not bundle fully features X servers.. they bundle a "light" variation

For entry level with vanilla drivers that should be fine for normal use..

YES you can run multiple displays just fine...

Some more specific configurations will just require a knowledge leverage..

Paul

[Simon]

I thought AMD were supposed to be quite open about their drivers or is that only up to a point.

I can have my 3x 4k monitors on, my CPU loaded with BOINC tasks and my GPU loaded with a folding at home task whilst watching a video and using 3D CAD with no issues.

[PKTKS]

I thought AMD were supposed to be quite open about their drivers or is that only up to a point.

I can have my 3x 4k monitors on, my CPU loaded with BOINC tasks and my GPU loaded with a folding at home task whilst watching a video and using 3D CAD with no issues.

Now here is a 2 cent thing...

The problem on both sides of the coin is the time line.

While on the side of the "paid drivers" the OS vendor requests
a driver compatible with some release and the hardware vendor
knows that it will deprecate that very soon ...

On the GPU arena each 15 days we have a new graphic thing..
a new graphic gizmo which requires new drivers new data paths
new I/O sensors... etc..

the OS vendor as soon as it get the drivers release a "OS new release"
which will be  re-licensed and paid again as soon the hardware vendor
deprecate their gizmos.

EASY MONEY MAKE FEEDBACK LOOP...

while users are willing to be fooled like that...
as 15 days release of new GPUs which require "new" firmware/drivers
are obvious a nonsense..

The 'open' side of the coin is that you can not fool users with
that firmware/soft  jambo...  and as soon the drivers are stable
(e.g. all the hidden stuff located..) we will run that for a long period.

I can run an ATI ALL IN WONDER TODAY from 90s !!! just fine...
on my Xserver...  the driver works fine and stable..

But in the mean time while the "new" crappy gizmos are filling
stake holders pockets with easy money.. WE HAVE ISSUES with
those hidden things that cripple driver performance and functionality...

The reason is that pocket filling...

On the  CAD/EDA  (3D soft) you will hit that problem...

While we can run an accelerated XServer in multiple displays
with MULTIPLE USERS simultaneously and VERY SECURE...(using XDM +xauth)
.. we  just can not run 3D accelerated CAD/EDA soft without the proper drivers..

But thanks to efforts of some dedicated folks.. video decoding and acceleration
is piece of cake in multiple displays with a reasonable hardware setup.

SO BOTTOM LINE is:  3D soft and GAMES  are still crippled by stake holder pockets..

While for secure safe and sane use we are orders of magnitude
better suited with open stuff..

OPINIONS ARE MINE ALONE - result of past (40y) 4 decades of this FUCK*** SHIT GAME

PAUL

[Simon]

10 decades? my didn't know abacuses had these problems  .

So basically how good is GPU support in linux. Is this variable based on version?

[JDubU]

I seem to have problems with any USB hub I plug into my PC. For example I wanted to put all receivers for HID devices on one PC part with a HUB but they keep getting "ejected" and them re-acquired. I have come to the conclusion that maybe it is not the hub's but either windows 10 or the motherboard ( X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING ).

Anyone have any experience? I have come to the conclusion that I just need to stuff every PCIe 1x slot with a USB expansion card.

Have you tried disabling "USB Selective Suspend" in the Windows "Power Options" control panel?

[Simon]

Nope, never knew of such a setting. although if I am using my mouse and it cuts off then surely it's not a power saving measure unless windows is that messed up. I've tried it, will try plugging everything in to a hub again.

[PKTKS]

10 decades? my didn't know abacuses had these problems  .

So basically how good is GPU support in linux. Is this variable based on version?

   kid-keyboard   strikes again... fixed...

GPU support keeps pace with vendor releases but obviously
there is a lag that prevents the latest gizmos of proper working...

Thanks for those share holder pockets...

But if you are not that kind of latest gizmo and you want
a stable reasonable working hardware (e.g. safe and fine.)
GPU support is more than fine.

I run KiCAD/Blender native  WINE  with D3D for MS applets
.. several good games and other stuff run just fine..

That setup is not "trivial"  but ...

As I said .. MINT fill the gap for those willing to drop MS shit..

Expect a good reliable and working thing...
Although latest gizmos support is obviously crippled by vendors..

** USB support .. TCP/IP stack and system stability are orders of magnitude better **

You will not find that shitty USB driver bugs and TCP/IP flaws... etc.
You will just be delayed in getting new recent gizmos... until the drivers popup

Paul

[themadhippy]

is it an active hub or just powered by usb?

[Simon]

is it an active hub or just powered by usb?

Either does the same

[bd139]

Will it handle 3x 4k monitors on an AMD RX5500XT card. Dealing with the resolution issues? this was my latest peeve.

I can't abandon windows entirely and last time i tried linux I had libre office claiming that my libre office files were corrupt when in fact they were not and it was because you have to change the default of files opening with "libre office" to the actual libre office application.

Don't abandon windows for this. As much as I'm not a big windows fan, I've got to say that Linux is a complete shitshow when it comes to graphics. If you want 3x 4k monitors stay with windows. The drivers are much more mature. It's just 50x more reliable with the other problems included. If you ever want to play with high DPI then Linux is 10x the shitshow that any platform is as well. I'm completely done with it as a platform.

To note, rarely the answer to solve a small problem is "switch platform". That's like winning chess by burning the fucking board 

With the USB hub issue, this is usually because the USB drivers that ship with windows for the Ryzen chipsets are shit. I'm not sure what they include as WHQL now but it's terrible usually. Head over to AMD's web site and install the latest USB drivers for your chipset. I had problems with my keyboard disconnecting on a B550M board periodically until I did this. That was plugged in via a USB hub.

Another thing to look at is which ports your stuff is plugged in to. I tend to not bother to wire up the case-wired ports to the motherboard and only use the rear ports as the case ones are always dubious as hell. So many problems with them over the years.

I'm going to be honest though and break what I said earlier and say that I crawled back to Mac recently after a 2 year hiatus in PC and Linux land. I'm done. I want something that allows me to spend 100% of my time on productivity rather than 80% on productivity and 20% of wondering what the fuck has gone wrong now.

[Simon]

No I would not switch to Linux over a USB issue which I have solved with add in cards that cost the same as a decent hub. Although there are many annoyances with windows who have gone all out to make it clear that I am no longer master of my own machine with every major update (windows re-install actually) wiping out custom settings and removing programs. I don't like this overbearance and for that I would move rather than a minor technical issue.

The whole putting a pretty picture on the locked computer screen is just a ploy to get you to use their yet another version of chromium + spyware on top. Windows is no longer a product. it's a service Microsoft offers as a loss leader to get you locked into their ecosystem.

[bd139]

Yep. The key issue is that Microsoft has no products that are worth anything other than Office and to some degree Azure. Windows isn't worth shit so they spent the last 5 years cost cutting where possible which has lead to a quality decline and service upselling integration. It's a death spiral. The hardware vendors are tied to this as well so are trying to pick up the pieces wherever they can and try and patch up the bad. The state of Microsoft's online support forums says it all - even their MVPs are bailing now.

At the end of the day everyone wants your rent money because you're hooked on their crack forever then. 

<< insert comment about landlords and Mao  >>

[Simon]

Well what a pity that some of these hardware vendors don't form a consortium to manage yet another Linux distro but one that is actually usable by Joe blogs who just needs to use their PC to work with drivers that just work et cetera. Then the software vendors might be interested. At the end of the day it is acknowledged that OSes don't make money anymore, they just enable other products.

[bd139]

Well they would and did try (Intel included) but unfortunately Linux is pretty heavily controlled by Redhat who wants to sign up qualified partners only. RH literally control most of the core development these days and strong arm everyone else into compliance with their roadmap.

OS is still valuable but not to mindshare controllers if it doesn’t make a corporation money somewhere.

I’d like to have seen our government build their own Linux distribution from the ground up TBH to run the NHS and government services on and give to the public. But they are too busy being mugged by MS.

[Simon]

But linux is open source, they can do what they like, just like the other million distro's out there.

[bd139]

It’s a lie. You can read the source yes and it’s licensed like that but contributing is difficult if not impossible in most cases. You end up in a situation where you have to fork the thing entirely and expect everyone on the planet to keep up the momentum on your fork. RH know that so bought up most of the core developers and pays them to work on RH business.

The only successful forks have been where the developers left or were laid off or weren’t working for cash anyway which is very few people.

[Simon]

But why do they have to have anything to do with Redhat? there are a number of popular distro's out there, we just need a reason for one of them or a new one to come along and be the one that rules them all. If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

[bd139]

They are subject to redhat too. Ubuntu went their own way and solicited support from vendors. Then Redhat bullied a whole desktop (gnome), init system (systemd), display engine (waylaid)  and various other tangles into everyone. They had to conform.  RH control everything.

To give you an idea how high level this goes, most Linux distributions don’t get early access to vulnerability information now either so have to patch after the releases.

[rstofer]

is it an active hub or just powered by usb?

Either does the same

I have powered hubs on at least 2 Win 10 machines that I can think of and both work fine.  Both are Microsoft Surface Pros since they don't tend to have very many ports.

Linux Mint is a terrific distribution and I have it on at least 5 machines (I seem to be a collector) and I like it a lot.  Never in my wildest imagination do I compare it to Win 10.  Like all Linux distros, I seem to spend half my time in the command line doing setup tasks or dealing with permission issues.

OTOH, when it comes to doing command line kinds of things, Linux excels.  Last week I was messing around with concurrent programming using gfortran with VScode for the editor and the built-in terminal window to execute.  A very nice programming environment.

Obviously, this would also work well with Python development.

[rstofer]

If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

I was looking for Linux laptops on Amazon and I found a bunch of HP units, all with Linux Mint Cinnamon.  Nevertheless, after 30 years, Linux is still only on about 2% of desktops.  Linux will never be the predominate desktop OS.

It does fill a niche.  I really like it for programming projects.

[Monkeh]

If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

Because Windows never breaks and I don't make a part of my living spending hours fixing their stupidity.

[Simon]

If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

I was looking for Linux laptops on Amazon and I found a bunch of HP units, all with Linux Mint Cinnamon.  Nevertheless, after 30 years, Linux is still only on about 2% of desktops.  Linux will never be the predominate desktop OS.

It does fill a niche.  I really like it for programming projects.

This is because there is too much choice. I don't want choice, i want an OS that just works. And more importantly the software houses have got no intention of doing support for 1000 variants of the same operating system.

[rstofer]

If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

I was looking for Linux laptops on Amazon and I found a bunch of HP units, all with Linux Mint Cinnamon.  Nevertheless, after 30 years, Linux is still only on about 2% of desktops.  Linux will never be the predominate desktop OS.

It does fill a niche.  I really like it for programming projects.

This is because there is too much choice. I don't want choice, i want an OS that just works. And more importantly the software houses have got no intention of doing support for 1000 variants of the same operating system.

And the many choices are due to "open source".  Anybody with a half baked idea can create another distro to add to the space.

Then there is the sheer arrogance of the developers.  In the old days, the Ubuntu Unity window buttons were moved to the left corner - completely wrong!  But each user could fix the problem with a configuration  file in their home directory.  Not satisfied, the same developers removed that capability so users were stuck with the buttons in the wrong location.

Finally, Ubuntu dumped Unity for Gnome and the buttons are where they belong.  So there's a web link on how to move them over to the left.

Open source => open anarchy.  If you like the results, great!  Otherwise, it's probably better to go with something that's pretty much standardized - Windows.

Yes, I realize that the Ubuntu developers wanted a MacOS look and feel.  What I don't know is why.  Why not copy the most popular OS?  More people will feel comfortable with the transition to Linux.

But the developers don't care!

[Simon]

Open source => open anarchy.  If you like the results, great!  Otherwise, it's probably better to go with something that's pretty much standardized - Windows.

Indeed, this is the problem, and business wants stability, why train and spend man hours on an OS that could disintegrate overnight? this is why the hardware manufacturers need to make a start by creating a new distro and focusing on the user experience of the average joe. Then MS will start to feel the pressure with a proper competitor. Once there is a platform in terms of hardware on OS the software vendors will start to come over.

[Monkeh]

why train and spend man hours on an OS that could disintegrate overnight?

FUD much? The OS isn't going anywhere.

[bw2341]

How about some more detailed information?

How many USB wireless HID dongles? What brands? For instance, you only need one Logitech Unifying receiver to support multiple Logitech HIDs.
Is the hub USB 3.0? Do any of the devices need USB 3.0? Is it plugged into a USB 3.0 port or 2.0?
Are you using any other USB devices? Are they running at USB 3.0 speeds?
Do you have WiFi? Is your wireless router close to your USB hub? Is your computer using WiFi? USB or PCI-E adapter?

[bd139]

why train and spend man hours on an OS that could disintegrate overnight?

FUD much? The OS isn't going anywhere.

To be fair he is about right.

[rstofer]

When I bought a Dell high end workstation many years ago, Red Hat Enterprise was the only non-Windows OS available from Dell.  They probably chose it because it was professionally managed and supported.  It worked fine except...  Every time a new kernel came out (and that seemed to be weekly), I had to recompile and install the Nvidia drivers.  What a PITA!  That changed over time but it was a lousy first experience with Linux.

At this point, Debian and Ubuntu are fighting it out and derivatives of Debian (like Mint) are quite useful.  I really like Mate but it's pretty easy to change to one of the other desktops.  If you have multiple desktops installed, you can select one a login.

https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/choose.html

SUSE Linux is also popular because, like Red Hat, it is professionally managed and supported.  I used it for a while and it works well.  But I like the distros with more seats.  The more users, the more likely Google will have an answer to my questions.

[Simon]

How about some more detailed information?

How many USB wireless HID dongles? What brands? For instance, you only need one Logitech Unifying receiver to support multiple Logitech HIDs.
Is the hub USB 3.0? Do any of the devices need USB 3.0? Is it plugged into a USB 3.0 port or 2.0?
Are you using any other USB devices? Are they running at USB 3.0 speeds?
Do you have WiFi? Is your wireless router close to your USB hub? Is your computer using WiFi? USB or PCI-E adapter?

I have used a "trust" USB 2.0 hub and an atolla powered USB 3.0 hub with and without power. The receivers are logitec for keyboard and mouse and yes I did unify them although that was after a firmware update as the first attempt with the older keyboard did not go so well. There is also a 3D mouse receiver by 3D connexions (logitec) that can't be unified and I also put my Bluetooth adapter in as well. I can't remember if I tried it with my new cherry mouse. Also a hard drive would eject and reconnect so really the common thing here was the PC so i put it down to windows or the motherboard after cursing the USB hubs  .

Wifi was not nearby, even with just two spaced out receivers it still did not work. I now run ethernet although I use a dongle for a hotspot but again this is well away as it is on the top of the case. I also had issues with those case ports I think.

[bw2341]

I brought up USB 3.0 because there were reports of early USB 3.0 systems interfering with wireless 2.4 GHz ISM band devices. You don't seem to be using many USB 3.0 devices.

Since you have many more USB ports on your motherboard than USB devices, you could try to directly connect them all to the ATX rear I/O panel USB ports. Try to keep the USB 2.0 devices on the USB 2.0 ports if possible. If you need to reposition the HID receivers for better reception or easy removal, use USB 2.0 extension cables (USB A male to USB A female).

Edit: grammar...

[Simon]

Yes I do indeed have plenty of ports and with 1 additional PCIe card so far not a problem. The keyboard and mouse though do not have the range to reach the PC so I have several extensions. What I had tried was one extension and a hub with everything on it. So now I have in the vicinity of my monitors (that may be what blocks wireless signals to the actual PC ports along with the mass of cables) 3 HID devices, a USB microphone and a webcam. It would be nice to have one cable from the PC not 5.

[Halcyon]

I have come to the conclusion that Windows 10 is a buggy piece of shit (expert opinion which I will gladly give in court).

Likewise but I don't want to have to became a linux guru to use linux.

Come to the dark siiiiiide Simon

Seriously though, I was a Windows guy for all my life up until only a few years ago (after it was unfeasible to use Windows 7 as my daily driver any longer). I've been using Windows 10 at work for probably about 5 years now and I absolutely hate it. Everyday something else screws up or doesn't work quite right and even the "dumbing down" of the UI language is irritating (it's like Microsoft are treating everyone like morons, it's not "friendly", it's stupid).

I dabbled in Linux on and off over the years and each time I came to the conclusion it was all "too hard". These days, there are a bunch of distros which are very polished and easy to install and use. The two I would recommand that "just work" are Pop OS! (stupid name I know, but great distro) and Manjaro (what I currently run). There are others too. It took only about a month for me to get comfortable with the way Linux does things differently to Windows and if you have knowledge of DOS command line, it translates very well into Linux terminal commands (these days, I always find myself typing 'ls' instead of 'dir' on a Windows machine).

I did it and I don't regret it one bit. I'm far from a Linux guru. Sure, I have had some false starts after screwing things up, but I learn. Almost everything I need has a native Linux version (and I finally got rid of Microsoft Office for LibreOffice, which reminds me more of the older style Office programs which I love). I do run one or two things under WINE. All the games I have in my Steam library either have a native version for Linux or they run seamlessly under Proton.

Even if you spend 30 minutes installing and running Linux in a VirtualBox VM will give you a little taste.

[Simon]

I'll probably give it a go some time again but it's the whole start from scratch with all the software. I have libreoffice already and use it at work over MS office. My main pain would be 3d cad and at the moment i use a portable thunderbird so that would mean separate copies for my laptop and desktop on linux. Thing is I won't keep swapping from one to the other, I want to work on one system only.

[SilverSolder]

Older technology was simpler and therefore could be made reliable.

Now, things are getting so complex and have such a big focus on security, encryption, etc. that there is only 5% CPU left for what you want to do as a user!

[rstofer]

Professional software applications are going to be written for Windows.  There may be a Linux version down the road but the effort goes into Windows first.

I like Linux and I use it all the time but  I would never consider recommending someone install Linux as their first or only OS.

When it gets to command line stuff, Windows is pretty lame.  Linux has it hands down and since I am interested in command line stuff, Linux is where I play.

[themadhippy]

I would never consider recommending someone install Linux as their first or only OS

I would and know several people who have done exactly that,no bad windows habits to break,and when all you want a pc for is to surf the net, send emails and write the odd letter why waste money being locked into micro$oft.

[Tom45]

I had similar problems running windows 10 with Gigabyte X299 AORUS master and wireless Logitech keyboard and mouse. So we had Windows 10, Gigabyte motherboard, and Logitech unifying devices in common.

My fix was to switch to a hardwired Lenovo USB keyboard and a hardwired USB Logitech mouse for my Windows 10 system.

My Windows 7 computer with wireless Logitech keyboard and mouse runs with no problems.

[Halcyon]

I would never consider recommending someone install Linux as their first or only OS

I would and know several people who have done exactly that,no bad windows habits to break,and when all you want a pc for is to surf the net, send emails and write the odd letter why waste money being locked into micro$oft.

I would too, especially these days. Ask me 5 or 10 years ago, no way. I know we're getting a little off-topic here so I'll keep it brief, Linux is almost ready for the mainstream desktop market. If I was setting up a basic computer for web browsing and word processing today, I'd choose Linux over Windows. There is no need for the beginner or average user to dump into terminal any more than there is to use the Windows command prompt or powershell. Administration is far easier to do remotely as well.

As I mentioned to Simon, you don't have to be a Linux guru to use it any more, I use Linux as my only daily driver (and have done for a few years now). It does everything I need it to do as a "power user" and then some. I find myself no where near as frustrated as I do when I use Windows 10 at work. I'm not saying this as a converted Linux fanboy nor am I suggesting it's ready to replace every workflow, it's not, but many people don't give it the chance that it deserves.

For students who are interested in tech, I think learning Linux and terminal commands is a great way to start and they would learn some very useful transferable skills. I had the advantage of growing up with DOS, learning things like BASIC, VB and batch scripting. Kids don't get that any more. It's all point and click stuff. These days I'm seeing Linux skills popping up more and more in technical job advertisements (even if the end-user environment is predominately Windows).

Linux has just started to get a significant foot into the desktop and gaming market and that foothold will only increase from here.

[PKTKS]

They are subject to redhat too. Ubuntu went their own way and solicited support from vendors. Then Redhat bullied a whole desktop (gnome), init system (systemd), display engine (waylaid)  and various other tangles into everyone. They had to conform.  RH control everything.

To give you an idea how high level this goes, most Linux distributions don’t get early access to vulnerability information now either so have to patch after the releases.

I am almost 100% agreed with BD139...

And **IF** I was not deeply buried into UNIX since 80s I would be
bound to  RH  POTTERIX systemd py wayland things...

But the only point to make a statement is that:
** YOU CAN PUT  A DISTRO OF YOURSELF ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE BETTER **

It requires you a long term knowledge and commitment in *NIX culture..

In my case i DRAG such system since the 90s..

It costs me  just the overload to maintain along time..

** BUT 100% AGREED w/BD that RH is making that a SHIT HOLE... **

Their obviously intentions are to model a similar MSW over *NIX
to put on top of that their (and their partners) buzzzz.

100% agreed with BD - but you can make *NIX work better than these alternatives..
not sticking with RH potterix..  SUSE  or the DEBIAN forks... BUNTUs a la carte

Paul

[Simon]

Linux has just started to get a significant foot into the desktop and gaming market and that foothold will only increase from here.

On which distro?

[PKTKS]

Linux has just started to get a significant foot into the desktop and gaming market and that foothold will only increase from here.

On which distro?

He is right.

On the desktop expect a trouble free drop in replacement using MINT.

Although we have some other real good options..
MINT is filling that gap very nicely. I did that for some folks with great grins...

On the gaming arena the issue is not the distros..  the problem is
that the games are really written to use those Winshit D3D drivers...

And considering they were written to run under another
optimized top features OS...  they are running under WINE
with a success rate absolutely noteworthy...

The number of titles that i can put running fine under WINE...
using 1920x1080 full hd accelerated display has  increased by dozens.

Titles like COD1/COD2, MassEffect, Crysis2, all Need4Speed titles
DOOM, QUAKE flavors... and several more..

Outstanding they are playable under WINE with a minor performance of course.
in some cases the system temperature should be carefully controlled..
but works

Considering the huge gap between the written code and WINE..
that is awesome

Paul

[Halcyon]

Linux has just started to get a significant foot into the desktop and gaming market and that foothold will only increase from here.

On which distro?

Pick your favourite. I've mentioned Pop OS and Manjaro. Both are extremely easy to get going but there are others, some people like Mint. Ubuntu isn't bad either. If you want the most popular over the last 12 months, it will be MX Linux, Manjaro or Mint.
https://distrowatch.com/

If you're into gaming, enable the Proton option in Steam (it's just a ticky box). It plays almost every single game I've tried, even if it doesn't have a native Linux version. I think I came across 1 in the past that didn't load. I'm not a huge gamer though so don't take this as an exhaustive test.

[Nominal Animal]

The keyboard and mouse though do not have the range to reach the PC so I have several extensions. What I had tried was one extension and a hub with everything on it. So now I have in the vicinity of my monitors (that may be what blocks wireless signals to the actual PC ports along with the mass of cables) 3 HID devices, a USB microphone and a webcam. It would be nice to have one cable from the PC not 5.

Could it be as simple as sagging USB voltage at higher currents?

Most USB cables I've gotten with devices are rather poor quality: thin conductors, easily measured voltage drop when basically any current is flowing.

I would definitely measure the voltage drop when supplying 5.15V and having a 10 to 22 ohm resistive load over the USB cables you use.  I'd also use one of those cheapie USB power measuring sticks to measure the voltage at the end of your chain.  Technically, the supply should be 5.0V±5% = 4.75V to 5.25V, but I wouldn't trust anything below 4.85V.

[Simon]

It happens even if I use a hub that has 50mm of wire coming straight out of it with a USB plug with just the wireless HID dongles. Given that I had problems with a HDD as well it's not a HU thing. My external HDD enclosure has a built in hub that allows me to plug something else in, but then this too has a problem and it's just a memory stick. It's definitely a windows or motherboard issue with hubs.

[Nominal Animal]

It's definitely a windows or motherboard issue with hubs.

Have you considered running another OS from a Live USB stick (or other external drive), to find out if it happens in other OSes also?  These USB peripherals (including any storage formatted for Windows NTFS) should be fully supported in Linux and FreeBSD, and the only thing to watch is to see if the devices drop out there also.

My experience with Gigabyte motherboards has been generally good, although a voltage regulator on my GA-MA78GM-S2H did explode (the IC cratered).

I have heard from others that mixing USB 3.x and USB 1.x devices on the same port or hub in Windows is "problematic".  (The problems I've heard were related to uploading firmware to microcontrollers with native USB 1.1 (full speed, i.e. 12 MBit/s) interfaces, when connected to a host USB 3.x port or a USB 3.x hub.)  The workaround that I've seen reported to work is to use an USB 2.0 hub between the USB 1.1 devices and the USB 3.x trunk.  While this is purely anecdotal stuff, it is something to check.

[Bassman59]

It's definitely a windows or motherboard issue with hubs.

Have you considered running another OS from a Live USB stick (or other external drive), to find out if it happens in other OSes also?  These USB peripherals (including any storage formatted for Windows NTFS) should be fully supported in Linux and FreeBSD, and the only thing to watch is to see if the devices drop out there also.

My experience with Gigabyte motherboards has been generally good, although a voltage regulator on my GA-MA78GM-S2H did explode (the IC cratered).

I have heard from others that mixing USB 3.x and USB 1.x devices on the same port or hub in Windows is "problematic".  (The problems I've heard were related to uploading firmware to microcontrollers with native USB 1.1 (full speed, i.e. 12 MBit/s) interfaces, when connected to a host USB 3.x port or a USB 3.x hub.)  The workaround that I've seen reported to work is to use an USB 2.0 hub between the USB 1.1 devices and the USB 3.x trunk.  While this is purely anecdotal stuff, it is something to check.

Maybe this is all related or not, but the boss recently gave me a new Windows 10 box (Dell Xeon thing) and it does something fucking annoying. I have three monitors connected to the computer, and I use the USB 2.0 hubs in the monitors for, among other things, to connect my keyboard (Unicomp) and mouse (Kensington Expert Mouse) to the computer. Each Type B port on the monitor goes to a host port on the computer, which I assume are all USB 3.0 (there are couple of USB-C ports on the computer's front, too).

Before I leave the office, I log off the computer and turn off the monitors with their front-panel buttons. And every morning when I get in, I turn on the monitors and wiggle the mouse or hit the Escape key. Sometimes the computer wakes up, sometimes not. So I tap the power button to wake it up. Then I can move the mouse to the password box, enter the password, and I'm in. After this, the mouse moves but the computer won't respond to mouse clicks. It is fucking weird. Sometimes reconnecting the mouse solves the problem. Sometimes not. So I have to reboot. It's stupid.

[JDubU]

Maybe this is all related or not, but the boss recently gave me a new Windows 10 box (Dell Xeon thing) and it does something fucking annoying. I have three monitors connected to the computer, and I use the USB 2.0 hubs in the monitors for, among other things, to connect my keyboard (Unicomp) and mouse (Kensington Expert Mouse) to the computer. Each Type B port on the monitor goes to a host port on the computer, which I assume are all USB 3.0 (there are couple of USB-C ports on the computer's front, too).

Before I leave the office, I log off the computer and turn off the monitors with their front-panel buttons. And every morning when I get in, I turn on the monitors and wiggle the mouse or hit the Escape key. Sometimes the computer wakes up, sometimes not. So I tap the power button to wake it up. Then I can move the mouse to the password box, enter the password, and I'm in. After this, the mouse moves but the computer won't respond to mouse clicks. It is fucking weird. Sometimes reconnecting the mouse solves the problem. Sometimes not. So I have to reboot. It's stupid.

I've had similar problems with wired mice and keyboards not working at all before Windows boots up (for example, with BIOS settings).  Turned out that they were having problem with USB 3 ports.  When plugged into USB 2 ports, they worked fine.

[Nominal Animal]

Turned out that they were having problem with USB 3 ports.  When plugged into USB 2 ports, they worked fine.

This (and the other anecdotes above) sound very similar to what I've heard.

The key thing to note here is that most HID devices - keyboards, mice, joysticks - are actually USB 1.1 devices, and USB 2.0 compatible; they only transfer data at low speed (LS, 1.5 Mbit/s) or full speed (FS, 12 Mbit/s), and not at USB 2.0 high speed (HS, 480 Mbit/s).  It is exactly the low/full speed devices, 1.5 Mbit/s or 12 Mbit/s, that some USB 3.x host ports and hubs have issues with.  (And often they can be worked around by adding an USB 2.0 hub in between.)

I am not an USB expert, and know very little about the actual hardware implementations, but it seems to me there are some (common?) USB 3.0 chips that do have issues with USB 1.1 (or USB 2.0 LS/FS) devices without help from a software driver running on the host OS.  Or perhaps they need some specific hardware bootup sequence that some BIOSes don't get exactly right.  Or perhaps the chips' datasheets have a note that a certain resistor or capacitor has to be present for initial bootup USB 1.1 compatibility, and those are omitted from some implementations because the software driver "already does it"; cost-cutting.

Because of this, I do recommend using an USB 2.0 host port and hubs dedicated for HID (and USB 2.0) devices, separate from the USB 3.0 ones.

If you don't have enough ports, then splitting off the HID (and USB 2.0) devices from the USB 3 "trunk" using an explicitly USB 2.0 hub (as opposed to USB 3), may also work.  (That is, it has worked for those having issues with USB 1.1/USB 2.0 LS/FS native-USB microcontrollers; I myself have not had any issues with this.)

When I am working on a microcontroller circuit connected to my computer and also externally powered, I use a cheap ADuM3160/4160 USB isolator – LS/FS only; selectable via switch, so only 1.5Mbit/s or 12Mbit/s, no 480Mbit/s support! – from fleabay, followed by a powered USB hub (one using an isolated switchmode supply, so I can "ground" it to whatever ground potential I choose).  This protects the host computer from my own idiocy (like shorting the USB bus accidentally, or even backfeeding a higher voltage).  These cheap USB isolators all use the recommended schematic shown in the ADuM datasheet, only differing in the DC-DC converter they use which in this particular case is basically irrelevant and can even be removed since the downstream USB hub will provide the (isolated) power; but, if you want a good one, the Olimex USB-ISO is quite nice in my opinion.

That kind of "isolated slow USB branch" can be useful for other situations too, for example when fixing/checking suspicious USB devices.

[Simon]

I've been using a USB2 hub.

[Nominal Animal]

I've been using a USB2 hub.

Yes; that is what differs from the other reports I've heard, and makes me interested to find out the underlying issue.  (Although I don't use Windows, I do want my HID widgets to work there too.)

Do you have a "pure" USB 2 tree down to the problematic devices, starting from an USB 2.0 port on the host?  Could you set one up for temporary testing?

[Simon]

I'll try the USB2 hub on a USB2 port but I did this before, maybe now with the new drivers it will work.

[mikerj]

There are dozens of windows 10 machines at work (all Dell desktops and laptops) that use hubs to connect multiple debuggers, serial adapters, measuring instruments etc. and I've not heard of anything like this.  Occasionally something will stop working and will need to be unplugged and re-plugged, or very rarely a bad USB cable will cause issues but generally it's pretty solid.

[Bassman59]

I've been using a USB2 hub.

Yes; that is what differs from the other reports I've heard, and makes me interested to find out the underlying issue.  (Although I don't use Windows, I do want my HID widgets to work there too.)

Do you have a "pure" USB 2 tree down to the problematic devices, starting from an USB 2.0 port on the host?  Could you set one up for temporary testing?

The monitors I mentioned above all have USB 2.0 hubs, and I tried using a standalone powered USB hub as well, and I keep having this problem! The computer (again, a Dell Xeon) doesn't have USB 2.0 ports, only the USB 3 (blue inserts in the jacks) and USB-C ports.

I have all sorts of USB devices connected to the computer, mostly the usual array of JTAG programming things and USB-to-serial adapters. There is one USB-to-serial adapter that occasionally gives me fits and requires a re-attach to get the computer to recognize it.  I don't recall having any trouble with anything else.

Oh, as an aside, the computer also has an Intel gigabit Ethernet PCIe card installed. For awhile after going to sleep, the computer wouldn't recognize that interface. It wouldn't even show up in the Device Manager. A reboot solved the problem. Maybe a recent Win10 update fixed that, because it hasn't happened in a few weeks.

I will also point out that my 2012 Mac mini and my 2020 iMac both have only USB 3.0 (and Thunderbolt 2 for the former and TB 3 for the latter) ports, and I've never had any problem with keyboards and mice not working properly, either with direct connection or through a hub.

I just wanna know why one of the largest and most reputable manufacturer of PCs can't get its products to properly handle keyboards and mice.

[Simon]

It's the first time I have had so much trouble and it all worked initially so I am suspecting a change in Windows 10 or that it replaced a driver.

[Halcyon]

Speaking of Windows 10 USB shenanigans: My work PC has decided that it wants to continually disconnect and reconnect USB drives randomly now. Hooray!

[msuffidy]

I have an external hard disc that I found out was reconnecting every time the cable was jiggled. I thought it was the drive's socket. I do have some cables here that I figured out fit so I was going to try another cable to see if the problem still existed. I dual boot win10 and linux, so in terms of the hub it could rule out the hardware from the software if it worked in linux.

[Simon]

Yes I have had a few susceptible cables like that. Just don't touch the damn things