USB hubs don't work on windows 10

[rstofer]

If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

I was looking for Linux laptops on Amazon and I found a bunch of HP units, all with Linux Mint Cinnamon.  Nevertheless, after 30 years, Linux is still only on about 2% of desktops.  Linux will never be the predominate desktop OS.

It does fill a niche.  I really like it for programming projects.

[Monkeh]

If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

Because Windows never breaks and I don't make a part of my living spending hours fixing their stupidity.

[Simon]

If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

I was looking for Linux laptops on Amazon and I found a bunch of HP units, all with Linux Mint Cinnamon.  Nevertheless, after 30 years, Linux is still only on about 2% of desktops.  Linux will never be the predominate desktop OS.

It does fill a niche.  I really like it for programming projects.

This is because there is too much choice. I don't want choice, i want an OS that just works. And more importantly the software houses have got no intention of doing support for 1000 variants of the same operating system.

[rstofer]

If the hardware vendors get behind one and make sure that damn thing works and does not require a computer mechanic just to keep it working it will gain adoption.

I was looking for Linux laptops on Amazon and I found a bunch of HP units, all with Linux Mint Cinnamon.  Nevertheless, after 30 years, Linux is still only on about 2% of desktops.  Linux will never be the predominate desktop OS.

It does fill a niche.  I really like it for programming projects.

This is because there is too much choice. I don't want choice, i want an OS that just works. And more importantly the software houses have got no intention of doing support for 1000 variants of the same operating system.

And the many choices are due to "open source".  Anybody with a half baked idea can create another distro to add to the space.

Then there is the sheer arrogance of the developers.  In the old days, the Ubuntu Unity window buttons were moved to the left corner - completely wrong!  But each user could fix the problem with a configuration  file in their home directory.  Not satisfied, the same developers removed that capability so users were stuck with the buttons in the wrong location.

Finally, Ubuntu dumped Unity for Gnome and the buttons are where they belong.  So there's a web link on how to move them over to the left.

Open source => open anarchy.  If you like the results, great!  Otherwise, it's probably better to go with something that's pretty much standardized - Windows.

Yes, I realize that the Ubuntu developers wanted a MacOS look and feel.  What I don't know is why.  Why not copy the most popular OS?  More people will feel comfortable with the transition to Linux.

But the developers don't care!

[Simon]

Open source => open anarchy.  If you like the results, great!  Otherwise, it's probably better to go with something that's pretty much standardized - Windows.

Indeed, this is the problem, and business wants stability, why train and spend man hours on an OS that could disintegrate overnight? this is why the hardware manufacturers need to make a start by creating a new distro and focusing on the user experience of the average joe. Then MS will start to feel the pressure with a proper competitor. Once there is a platform in terms of hardware on OS the software vendors will start to come over.

[Monkeh]

why train and spend man hours on an OS that could disintegrate overnight?

FUD much? The OS isn't going anywhere.

[bw2341]

How about some more detailed information?

How many USB wireless HID dongles? What brands? For instance, you only need one Logitech Unifying receiver to support multiple Logitech HIDs.
Is the hub USB 3.0? Do any of the devices need USB 3.0? Is it plugged into a USB 3.0 port or 2.0?
Are you using any other USB devices? Are they running at USB 3.0 speeds?
Do you have WiFi? Is your wireless router close to your USB hub? Is your computer using WiFi? USB or PCI-E adapter?

[bd139]

why train and spend man hours on an OS that could disintegrate overnight?

FUD much? The OS isn't going anywhere.

To be fair he is about right.

[rstofer]

When I bought a Dell high end workstation many years ago, Red Hat Enterprise was the only non-Windows OS available from Dell.  They probably chose it because it was professionally managed and supported.  It worked fine except...  Every time a new kernel came out (and that seemed to be weekly), I had to recompile and install the Nvidia drivers.  What a PITA!  That changed over time but it was a lousy first experience with Linux.

At this point, Debian and Ubuntu are fighting it out and derivatives of Debian (like Mint) are quite useful.  I really like Mate but it's pretty easy to change to one of the other desktops.  If you have multiple desktops installed, you can select one a login.

https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/choose.html

SUSE Linux is also popular because, like Red Hat, it is professionally managed and supported.  I used it for a while and it works well.  But I like the distros with more seats.  The more users, the more likely Google will have an answer to my questions.

[Simon]

How about some more detailed information?

How many USB wireless HID dongles? What brands? For instance, you only need one Logitech Unifying receiver to support multiple Logitech HIDs.
Is the hub USB 3.0? Do any of the devices need USB 3.0? Is it plugged into a USB 3.0 port or 2.0?
Are you using any other USB devices? Are they running at USB 3.0 speeds?
Do you have WiFi? Is your wireless router close to your USB hub? Is your computer using WiFi? USB or PCI-E adapter?

I have used a "trust" USB 2.0 hub and an atolla powered USB 3.0 hub with and without power. The receivers are logitec for keyboard and mouse and yes I did unify them although that was after a firmware update as the first attempt with the older keyboard did not go so well. There is also a 3D mouse receiver by 3D connexions (logitec) that can't be unified and I also put my Bluetooth adapter in as well. I can't remember if I tried it with my new cherry mouse. Also a hard drive would eject and reconnect so really the common thing here was the PC so i put it down to windows or the motherboard after cursing the USB hubs  .

Wifi was not nearby, even with just two spaced out receivers it still did not work. I now run ethernet although I use a dongle for a hotspot but again this is well away as it is on the top of the case. I also had issues with those case ports I think.

[bw2341]

I brought up USB 3.0 because there were reports of early USB 3.0 systems interfering with wireless 2.4 GHz ISM band devices. You don't seem to be using many USB 3.0 devices.

Since you have many more USB ports on your motherboard than USB devices, you could try to directly connect them all to the ATX rear I/O panel USB ports. Try to keep the USB 2.0 devices on the USB 2.0 ports if possible. If you need to reposition the HID receivers for better reception or easy removal, use USB 2.0 extension cables (USB A male to USB A female).

Edit: grammar...

[Simon]

Yes I do indeed have plenty of ports and with 1 additional PCIe card so far not a problem. The keyboard and mouse though do not have the range to reach the PC so I have several extensions. What I had tried was one extension and a hub with everything on it. So now I have in the vicinity of my monitors (that may be what blocks wireless signals to the actual PC ports along with the mass of cables) 3 HID devices, a USB microphone and a webcam. It would be nice to have one cable from the PC not 5.

[Halcyon]

I have come to the conclusion that Windows 10 is a buggy piece of shit (expert opinion which I will gladly give in court).

Likewise but I don't want to have to became a linux guru to use linux.

Come to the dark siiiiiide Simon

Seriously though, I was a Windows guy for all my life up until only a few years ago (after it was unfeasible to use Windows 7 as my daily driver any longer). I've been using Windows 10 at work for probably about 5 years now and I absolutely hate it. Everyday something else screws up or doesn't work quite right and even the "dumbing down" of the UI language is irritating (it's like Microsoft are treating everyone like morons, it's not "friendly", it's stupid).

I dabbled in Linux on and off over the years and each time I came to the conclusion it was all "too hard". These days, there are a bunch of distros which are very polished and easy to install and use. The two I would recommand that "just work" are Pop OS! (stupid name I know, but great distro) and Manjaro (what I currently run). There are others too. It took only about a month for me to get comfortable with the way Linux does things differently to Windows and if you have knowledge of DOS command line, it translates very well into Linux terminal commands (these days, I always find myself typing 'ls' instead of 'dir' on a Windows machine).

I did it and I don't regret it one bit. I'm far from a Linux guru. Sure, I have had some false starts after screwing things up, but I learn. Almost everything I need has a native Linux version (and I finally got rid of Microsoft Office for LibreOffice, which reminds me more of the older style Office programs which I love). I do run one or two things under WINE. All the games I have in my Steam library either have a native version for Linux or they run seamlessly under Proton.

Even if you spend 30 minutes installing and running Linux in a VirtualBox VM will give you a little taste.

[Simon]

I'll probably give it a go some time again but it's the whole start from scratch with all the software. I have libreoffice already and use it at work over MS office. My main pain would be 3d cad and at the moment i use a portable thunderbird so that would mean separate copies for my laptop and desktop on linux. Thing is I won't keep swapping from one to the other, I want to work on one system only.

[SilverSolder]

Older technology was simpler and therefore could be made reliable.

Now, things are getting so complex and have such a big focus on security, encryption, etc. that there is only 5% CPU left for what you want to do as a user!

[rstofer]

Professional software applications are going to be written for Windows.  There may be a Linux version down the road but the effort goes into Windows first.

I like Linux and I use it all the time but  I would never consider recommending someone install Linux as their first or only OS.

When it gets to command line stuff, Windows is pretty lame.  Linux has it hands down and since I am interested in command line stuff, Linux is where I play.

[themadhippy]

I would never consider recommending someone install Linux as their first or only OS

I would and know several people who have done exactly that,no bad windows habits to break,and when all you want a pc for is to surf the net, send emails and write the odd letter why waste money being locked into micro$oft.

[Tom45]

I had similar problems running windows 10 with Gigabyte X299 AORUS master and wireless Logitech keyboard and mouse. So we had Windows 10, Gigabyte motherboard, and Logitech unifying devices in common.

My fix was to switch to a hardwired Lenovo USB keyboard and a hardwired USB Logitech mouse for my Windows 10 system.

My Windows 7 computer with wireless Logitech keyboard and mouse runs with no problems.

[Halcyon]

I would never consider recommending someone install Linux as their first or only OS

I would and know several people who have done exactly that,no bad windows habits to break,and when all you want a pc for is to surf the net, send emails and write the odd letter why waste money being locked into micro$oft.

I would too, especially these days. Ask me 5 or 10 years ago, no way. I know we're getting a little off-topic here so I'll keep it brief, Linux is almost ready for the mainstream desktop market. If I was setting up a basic computer for web browsing and word processing today, I'd choose Linux over Windows. There is no need for the beginner or average user to dump into terminal any more than there is to use the Windows command prompt or powershell. Administration is far easier to do remotely as well.

As I mentioned to Simon, you don't have to be a Linux guru to use it any more, I use Linux as my only daily driver (and have done for a few years now). It does everything I need it to do as a "power user" and then some. I find myself no where near as frustrated as I do when I use Windows 10 at work. I'm not saying this as a converted Linux fanboy nor am I suggesting it's ready to replace every workflow, it's not, but many people don't give it the chance that it deserves.

For students who are interested in tech, I think learning Linux and terminal commands is a great way to start and they would learn some very useful transferable skills. I had the advantage of growing up with DOS, learning things like BASIC, VB and batch scripting. Kids don't get that any more. It's all point and click stuff. These days I'm seeing Linux skills popping up more and more in technical job advertisements (even if the end-user environment is predominately Windows).

Linux has just started to get a significant foot into the desktop and gaming market and that foothold will only increase from here.

[PKTKS]

They are subject to redhat too. Ubuntu went their own way and solicited support from vendors. Then Redhat bullied a whole desktop (gnome), init system (systemd), display engine (waylaid)  and various other tangles into everyone. They had to conform.  RH control everything.

To give you an idea how high level this goes, most Linux distributions don’t get early access to vulnerability information now either so have to patch after the releases.

I am almost 100% agreed with BD139...

And **IF** I was not deeply buried into UNIX since 80s I would be
bound to  RH  POTTERIX systemd py wayland things...

But the only point to make a statement is that:
** YOU CAN PUT  A DISTRO OF YOURSELF ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE BETTER **

It requires you a long term knowledge and commitment in *NIX culture..

In my case i DRAG such system since the 90s..

It costs me  just the overload to maintain along time..

** BUT 100% AGREED w/BD that RH is making that a SHIT HOLE... **

Their obviously intentions are to model a similar MSW over *NIX
to put on top of that their (and their partners) buzzzz.

100% agreed with BD - but you can make *NIX work better than these alternatives..
not sticking with RH potterix..  SUSE  or the DEBIAN forks... BUNTUs a la carte

Paul

[Simon]

Linux has just started to get a significant foot into the desktop and gaming market and that foothold will only increase from here.

On which distro?

[PKTKS]

Linux has just started to get a significant foot into the desktop and gaming market and that foothold will only increase from here.

On which distro?

He is right.

On the desktop expect a trouble free drop in replacement using MINT.

Although we have some other real good options..
MINT is filling that gap very nicely. I did that for some folks with great grins...

On the gaming arena the issue is not the distros..  the problem is
that the games are really written to use those Winshit D3D drivers...

And considering they were written to run under another
optimized top features OS...  they are running under WINE
with a success rate absolutely noteworthy...

The number of titles that i can put running fine under WINE...
using 1920x1080 full hd accelerated display has  increased by dozens.

Titles like COD1/COD2, MassEffect, Crysis2, all Need4Speed titles
DOOM, QUAKE flavors... and several more..

Outstanding they are playable under WINE with a minor performance of course.
in some cases the system temperature should be carefully controlled..
but works

Considering the huge gap between the written code and WINE..
that is awesome

Paul

[Halcyon]

Linux has just started to get a significant foot into the desktop and gaming market and that foothold will only increase from here.

On which distro?

Pick your favourite. I've mentioned Pop OS and Manjaro. Both are extremely easy to get going but there are others, some people like Mint. Ubuntu isn't bad either. If you want the most popular over the last 12 months, it will be MX Linux, Manjaro or Mint.
https://distrowatch.com/

If you're into gaming, enable the Proton option in Steam (it's just a ticky box). It plays almost every single game I've tried, even if it doesn't have a native Linux version. I think I came across 1 in the past that didn't load. I'm not a huge gamer though so don't take this as an exhaustive test.

[Nominal Animal]

The keyboard and mouse though do not have the range to reach the PC so I have several extensions. What I had tried was one extension and a hub with everything on it. So now I have in the vicinity of my monitors (that may be what blocks wireless signals to the actual PC ports along with the mass of cables) 3 HID devices, a USB microphone and a webcam. It would be nice to have one cable from the PC not 5.

Could it be as simple as sagging USB voltage at higher currents?

Most USB cables I've gotten with devices are rather poor quality: thin conductors, easily measured voltage drop when basically any current is flowing.

I would definitely measure the voltage drop when supplying 5.15V and having a 10 to 22 ohm resistive load over the USB cables you use.  I'd also use one of those cheapie USB power measuring sticks to measure the voltage at the end of your chain.  Technically, the supply should be 5.0V±5% = 4.75V to 5.25V, but I wouldn't trust anything below 4.85V.

[Simon]

It happens even if I use a hub that has 50mm of wire coming straight out of it with a USB plug with just the wireless HID dongles. Given that I had problems with a HDD as well it's not a HU thing. My external HDD enclosure has a built in hub that allows me to plug something else in, but then this too has a problem and it's just a memory stick. It's definitely a windows or motherboard issue with hubs.