Author Topic: long PC power supply  (Read 1043 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PKTKS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 502
  • Country: br
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2020, 06:04:22 pm »

Going by your own data, you use two PSU's for a 600Watts load, so going by your 300W per PSU, you need 1500/300 = 5 of your units to reach those stated 1500Watts.

WRONG - read again - TWO 500W rated PSUs for 1000W
or 3x for 1500W - which I NEVER EVER NEEDED.


You should spend some time reading some reviews at Jonhy Guru..
http://www.jonnyguru.com/

Actually i Follow this guy for almost 5 or 7 years on internet.
He went Corsair. - unfortunately Corsair designs are top on problems

I also read other 5 decent folks which do that sticker thing comparison.
I am not floating on that.
 

Offline senso

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 928
  • Country: pt
    • My AVR tutorials
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2020, 06:05:30 pm »
Why do you even need a 1000W PSU to fix another?
A 1000W load would make sense, not another PSU..

Soldering iron to remove some cooper planes?....

If nobody cares about PFC you end with a square wave mains and all that entails from there..
Nice that you don't care.

And from where I am(PT), paying around 0.23€ per kW, a 10% improvement of efficiency by getting a PSU that costs not even more than 5€ compared to your profit margins, it pays itself in a couple months..
 

Offline senso

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 928
  • Country: pt
    • My AVR tutorials
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2020, 06:08:07 pm »

Going by your own data, you use two PSU's for a 600Watts load, so going by your 300W per PSU, you need 1500/300 = 5 of your units to reach those stated 1500Watts.

WRONG - read again - TWO 500W rated PSUs for 1000W
or 3x for 1500W - which I NEVER EVER NEEDED.


You should spend some time reading some reviews at Jonhy Guru..
http://www.jonnyguru.com/

Actually i Follow this guy for almost 5 or 7 years on internet.
He went Corsair. - unfortunately Corsair designs are top on problems

I also read other 5 decent folks which do that sticker thing comparison.
I am not floating on that.

They test the PSU's and measure the input and output to assure the buyer that they are in fact complying with what they state, and you dont trust them?  :palm:

And do you measure your PSU efficiency?
Because I could also say that I dont float on that and that even that bad 78% value is fake and in reality its much worse.
How about ripple?
And voltage sag?
How about EMI?
How about the lack of earthing that you avoided even talking about?
 

Online Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6162
  • Country: gb
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2020, 06:10:43 pm »

Going by your own data, you use two PSU's for a 600Watts load, so going by your 300W per PSU, you need 1500/300 = 5 of your units to reach those stated 1500Watts.

WRONG - read again - TWO 500W rated PSUs for 1000W
or 3x for 1500W - which I NEVER EVER NEEDED.

I suggest you read again.. 

** IF RUNNING TWO 500W **  (as stated)
each will roughly  run at 300W.  Not even warm

So which is it? 300W or 500W? Noting that you have no proper way to balance the load.

How about the lack of earthing that you avoided even talking about?

Oh man, I didn't even spot that, I was so distracted by the rest of the lack of quality. So bad. At least they're still including the extra insulation.
 

Offline PKTKS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 502
  • Country: br
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2020, 06:11:48 pm »
from 78% (actually some tests show typical 80%) to 84%/88%
is not all that good.
Losses are almost havled. What a joke  :-DD

NO JOKE - i am not the type of joke
I don't even need to fake a hair or word

Please check that KRATOS 500W rated 80%


Please  just retain simple facts.
avoid those juvenile rants.
Paul
 

Online wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 11054
  • Country: lv
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2020, 06:15:50 pm »
Please check that KRATOS 500W rated 80%
Dunno about what they talk but it's a trash of similar design to your junk.
 

Offline PKTKS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 502
  • Country: br
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2020, 06:16:37 pm »
How about the lack of earthing that you avoided even talking about?

AVOID NOTHING - STOP PUSHING ME

WELL STATED LINES ARE FULLY ISOLATED WITH LINE CONDITIONERS

Please read the F** thing prior to crapping my person.
Paul
 

Offline PKTKS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 502
  • Country: br
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2020, 06:18:11 pm »
Please check that KRATOS 500W rated 80%
Dunno about what they talk but it's a trash of similar design to your junk.

Your point is just insulting. OK.
For those  interested you have "CAPTIONS" on youtube.

They have a nice review and several other failed ones as well
Have some fun with those folks.

I wont take longer insults
 

Online Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6162
  • Country: gb
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2020, 06:19:33 pm »
How about the lack of earthing that you avoided even talking about?

AVOID NOTHING - STOP PUSHING ME

WELL STATED LINES ARE FULLY ISOLATED WITH LINE CONDITIONERS

Please read the F** thing prior to crapping my person.
Paul


So putting some 'line conditioners' (which may or may not isolate the line, which is irrelevant to the practice of grounding a PC chassis) in place for your usage completely absolves the manufacturer of responsibility to make a product correctly?
 
The following users thanked this post: wraper

Offline senso

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 928
  • Country: pt
    • My AVR tutorials
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2020, 06:21:55 pm »
Because thats a shit rebranded bottom of the barrel PSU as well, its lacking half the components, its like your PSU, being imported from China and branded in Brazil.
Most likely it indeed met the sticker specs to be a 80% plus efficient PSU, but after it was "optimized" it doesn't meet the standard anymore, thats a bit on the shaddy side of things..
And at the end the guy says that its a 180-200 R$ that makes it a 34-38€, in the same ballpark of yours..

Same in Portugal/Spain with the crappy Nox PSU's, you can almost get 300W out of their 750W PSU, but hey, its a 40€ 750W PSU, for the same price you get a 500W Seasonic.

 

Online Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6162
  • Country: gb
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #60 on: March 20, 2020, 06:24:42 pm »
I wont take longer insults

So let's insult the power supply, not you: It's a cheaply made copy of an ancient design which is unlikely to actually comply with any ATX standard (especially current ones) and most certainly does not comply with any other actually required standards from my part of the world. So yes, I will shit all over it until the cows come home.

Not good enough by me, not good enough by my conscience, and not good enough by the legal requirements I and most of the members of this forum do business under.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 06:28:18 pm by Monkeh »
 
The following users thanked this post: Someone

Offline PKTKS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 502
  • Country: br
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2020, 06:57:14 pm »
So let's insult the power supply, not you

GO INSULT YOUR MIRROR..

best thing you do
 

Online Someone

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2301
  • Country: au
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #62 on: March 20, 2020, 10:01:53 pm »
Needs to be said: Comic Sans, instant fail.
 

Online wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 11054
  • Country: lv
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2020, 11:33:23 pm »
BTW, talking about 80 plus, you can actually download PSU test results from their website. For example mine @115V. As you can see even @10% load it's 87.74% efficient and should be a few % better @230V.

 

Offline mariush

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3936
  • Country: ro
  • .
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2020, 12:15:13 am »
So basically a small recap.

Those cheap power supplies have a few issues.

1. No power factor correction.
2. Very poor efficiency ... 75% or less at low loads like 50w, which is common these days with modern hardware, and around 78-80% at higher loads like 200-300w.  In contrast, modern power supplies can be up to 94-96% efficient.
3. They are often NOT capable of reaching the advertised numbers on the label, like for example a 650w power supply will barely do 300-400 watts.
Often they plain LIE on the label or add up the numbers incorrectly to trick people into thinking a power supply is capable of more than what it can do in reality.
4. They use very cheap electrolytic capacitors which will be subjected to lots of heat at high loads, and OVER TIME (months) they will degrade and cause voltage ripple to increase, which in turn causes VRMs on video cards and other components to work harder and in rare cases to even cause failures in video cards
I've personally had to replace the 5v standby capacitor on several such power supplies, because it failed - as the 5v standby circuit is always on, the capacitor is always hot due to hot diodes being right by the capacitor and fan not spinning while the pc is powered off
5. They use very poor quality sleeve bearing fans with little lubrication, and these fans often seize after around 1-2 years of operation (depending on how many hours the psu is used)

As a side comment ... looking at that Youtube video with the Kratos power supply... ripple voltages of 50mV and up while technically within ATX standard, are really bad for video cards, it's proven a lot of modern video cards don't like more than 20-30mV of ripple and the vrms sometimes overheat and the cards can't sustain auto boost / turbo modes, and all this results in worse video card performance. To a lesser degree, same applies to CPU vrms.
These old designs also don't meet the standards required for very low power sleep states, and often are unstable at ultra low loads like under 5w or so ... and often instead of reliable sleep modes, the computers just lock or shut down because processor can't wake up from sleep because the power supply can't handle it.
They also don't meet the latest EU regulations about "vampire power", which require less than 0.5w of power consumption in standby, and something like >70% efficiency for the 5v standby circuit


You as a seller may sell these CHEAP power supplies and they may work when you install them, fresh out of the box, and most people these days have computers that barely hit 300 watts of power consumption, so you're just lucky they don't blow up or cause issues, but you're not there 1-2 years after the sale when fans die or electrolytic capacitors go bad, or when the primary transistors blow up, and you can always blame the lack of line conditioners and not give that person another power supply when they complain.

Get in the last decade and accept the fact that modern designs can achieve high efficiencies of over 90%, so when a person plays game on the computer the power supply no longer has to struggle to dissipate 50+ watts in the form of heat.
Modern power supplies even come with 5-7 years of warranty, some even come with 10-12 years. What does that say to you, when you compare it to the 1 year of debatable warranty of those cheap power supplies?

I paid a bit more quite a few years ago and bought a Seasonic X-650 power supply ... still working like on the first day and I'll probably use it for another decade. Compare the internal design with your shitty old designs :

http://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2013/02/04/seasonic-x-650-km3-650w-power-supply/5/

Does this look "crowded" to you ?

« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 12:18:47 am by mariush »
 
The following users thanked this post: mrflibble

Offline PKTKS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 502
  • Country: br
Re: long PC power supply
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2020, 09:37:15 am »
Thank you for sharing your attention, your knowledge
and intelligent comments.

I will do my best to keep that short direct to the point.
You deserve a proper share of ideas.

AS THE TOPIC STATES: I am also *very* disappointed with those PSUs
- I don't need to "update" my tech - I have been there  - whole way top/down
- I have spent money with that PFC garbage as well - and they failed.

They do fail at a surprisingly  high rate - equal to old standards
but this time - with a greater liability. What the cause?

Reason I am still interested in sharing some nuts & bolts..

- I agree with your points almost 90%.
- I tried them - and several failed shortly - they have more issues than previous
- They also suffer same problems of other designs
* bad quality parts, new unproved solutions, lack of parts..
* and others - legislation, increasing change of ATX details..
- but now they cost 5x or even 8x times more - thanks to those "solutions"

Really really bad propaganda

ATX under 500W HALF BRIDGE based designs have real bad ones.
- But NOT ALL. -- VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL ...
- If you can choose the good ones they work as they should
- and far more cost effective.

Need to say:
I don't use garbage
I don't sell garbage
I have tried *ALOT* of them to find the good ones.

BOTH OF THEM: HALF BRIDGE designs as well as PFC ones.
- they do fail and they do have a lot of bad ones.

I think it will be  solved by itself with new ATX12VO - hopefully

ATX changed too much - those ratings are just summed like
500W 700W - they are actually not  much a guideline for reliable products.

If I would be using or selling garbage I would be out of buz

And I do this all day long 24H daily last 40 years.
I do have a proper floor of own results.

They work
Better than those funky stickers only

If using PFC base I reduced my list to only 2 (Seasonic included)
If using HALF BRIDGE ones - the list is bigger and fail rate is better.

And I agree almost 90% with you - at the point..
BOTH SOLUTIONS ARE PRETTY MUCH BAD.

Hopefully in a couple years it won't matter with ATX12VO.
trying to keep short ideas
Paul



« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 09:54:23 am by PKTKS »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf