What browser for KDE/Linux - Firefox ESR just upgraded to ugly and slow

[RoGeorge]

About a year ago Firefox became ugly and slow.  Firefox ESR was a refuge until today.  Today, Firefox ESR upgraded to an ugly look, v91.3.0esr, just like the one that makes me move from Firefox to Firefox ESR.

I'm using a desktop with a 4k monitor and a mouse, so I don't want the phone/tablet-like design, with wasted empty screen areas and elements without borders/delimiters.  I'm looking for a desktop-oriented look and feel.

What to replace Firefox with, what browser worth tested?
(preferably something that works well with KDE, and preferably not a slow loading snap package)

[Karel]

I use Opensuse Leap (at work and at home) with the latest Firefox.
I hate the changes Mozilla made in the graphical interface, specially the tabs.
But I'll continue to use it because I believe it's the best browser if you care about your privacy.
I have no problems related to speed or memory usage.
Also, if we want to keep the internet open and free for all, more people should use Firefox.

[RoGeorge]

I've installed to test Otter (its declared goal is to look like the old Opera 12, but using Qt5) and Falkon (former QupZilla) to test in the next days, and see if they are missing any of the must have (either native or as a plugin):

- dark theme
- night-owl (automatically apply a dark theme to light-themed webpages)
- 100% addblocker
- save full webpage as single file (complete/offline html or pdf)

[voltsandjolts]

Long term FF user here but agree with comments above.
It's always annoying when programmers run out of useful stuff to do and think 'making the UI look nicer' is required, then go on to break well established UI principles, because hey, it's funky.
Tab indexers disconnected from the page, turned into buttons, WTF?
Double spacing on all menus items, WTF?
Just stop it, if you run out of useful stuff to do, go on holiday until the next security scare arrives, it won't be long.
Win11 looks like the same BS.

This dude has fixed some issues but I can't be bothered installing it as the next update will probably break it.

[tunk]

Is this any help: https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20211101#brave

[rdl]

I have Firefox as a second browser. It's still 78.15.0esr I guess it'll update itself sooner or later. I only use it when I need cookies enabled because it's easier to start a different browser than it is to change the settings in Pale Moon. Pale Moon is my daily driver choice for many years (close to a decade). Mostly because it is very old school in appearance. I use it with NoScript and uBlock Origin. No problems with security or privacy.

[RoGeorge]

I have Pale Moon, and like it very much, the only reason I was using Firefox is the plugins.

uBlock Origin was easy to adapt/install in Pale Moon, but I couldn't find a good one for Dark Mode, which is a must have for a desktop with a big monitor.  The one I found for PM is called "Advanced Night Mode", and it's not so good when compared with the "Dark Reader" for FF.

Is there any other better plugin or other methode for Pale Moon, that can apply a dark mode on any webpage?

[rsjsouza]

I also agree with the sentiment here - FF is trying hard to become a "cool and hip" browser... Its last iterations are not great, but I use it on principle to keep my privacy and the internet browsing free from Alphabet's claws.

I used Vivaldi in the past and it worked well but, as for anything absolutely free that promises to not track you, I am always a bit suspicious of their business model.

At any rate, this thread prompted me to look into Pale moon and Waterfox - thanks!

[BrianHG]

  Consider yourself lucky that your upgrade doesn't randomly drop youtube resolution down to 360p during playback, usually where ads would be inserted like the latest ESR Windows version does for me.  Around every 3-5 minutes or so...

Now I have no way of rolling back to an earlier version of FF.

[RoGeorge]

randomly drop youtube resolution

Try adding this extension to your Firefox:  Enhancer for YouTube
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/enhancer-for-youtube/

I'm using that for setting the default playback speed, has a lot of settings and adds a few more controls in the youtube player, should work for keeping a preferred resolution, too.

[BrianHG]

Enhancer for YouTube, that's cheating.  It also slows down Firefox's other panels' windows smooth refresh and scrolling once installed.  It also eats up an extra additional 200 or so megabytes of system memory and 10-20% cpu once a youtube window is opened, but the video is paused.

[cdev]

A fresh install of firefox "phones home" to at least 200 different web sites before it starts to work. Its creepy.

Chromium is no better, I found it doing all sorts of bizzare things, so much so that I cant use it any more. (try loking at the binary blobs it creates) The browser I do often use right now (but I'm not at all happy with it either) embeds an old version of chrome. When it starts up it generates dns requests to invalid sites.

Because of a sort of global Enclosure Act for corporations that's going on that regulates government and prevents democracy,  I could never trust Google or AOL. Google does even pretend to not be evil anymore.

I wish there were better alternative browsers. I save the source files from many browsers and other programs now as I am certain that finding a simple browser without built-in spyware will become impossible someday soon, if it isnt already.

[RoGeorge]

So far I've tested many browsers and couldn't find a replacement for Firefox and its extensions.

Now running the latest Firefox (not ESR), but I've found a new Firefox theme that makes it look OK-ish:  "Colorways / Cheers — Bold".  Comes in many colors, and the mustard one matches well with a dark + green themed desktop (I have KDE Plasma with "Dark-OpenSUSE" global theme for desktop, "Breeze" for application style and "Colorbit" for windows decorations, desktop background is black). 

[Benta]

@RoGeorge, If your only concern about a browaser is, whether it supports your favourite themes, fine.

There are other aspects to a browser FYI.

I find FF heavy, bloated and slow.
For the past years, I've favoured Opera, but that's moving in the same direction as FF: heavy, bloated and slow.

So what's left?
Looking around, the primary option seems to be Brave, both for lightness and privacy.

Do users here have experience with the Brave browser?

[RoGeorge]

No, that theme worked as a workaround for the default ugly look of the FFv96, that FF theme only appeared recently, that's why I bothered mentioning it.

I've tried Brave, couldn't find the equivalent functionality for some of the extensions I'm using very often in FF, and that was a showstopper.  Also, in Ubuntu Brave came as a snap install, which means it will fire up much slower than a native install.  I am avoiding snaps.

[Benta]

I've tried Brave, couldn't find the equivalent functionality for some of the extensions I'm using very often in FF, and that was a showstopper.  Also, in Ubuntu Brave came as a snap install, which means it will fire up much slower than a native install.  I am avoiding snaps.

Very good info, thanks. I avoid snaps like the plague (snapd deinstall is the first thing I do on a new install).

[RoGeorge]

Without snap, Brave can still be installed in Ubuntu (without compiling it from sources), by adding the Brave repository near the Ubuntu repos.  So it can be installed without snap, just that the one supported by Ubuntu is the snap version.

For about a week, I've installed and tested pretty much all the browsers I could find in the search of a replace for FF.  There are not many choices left.  All are derived from the same 2-3 main browser engines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_engine

Most of the current browsers are based on Chromium.  There are 2-3 flavors of de-Googlified Chrome, but some are hard to install, or lag behind in terms of patches.  Also, they have virtually no support and you have to deal by yourself with any problems you may bumped into.

Another problem with not so famous or even independent builds is who would you trust more when it came to privacy, or to run any other program.  Would you rather trust a known data harvester like Google, or some random developer from Github?

With Google, at least I know Chrome doesn't try to steal my credit card.

From the old Firefox (v54 or so, the previous engine IDK by heart), there is Pale Moon.  I like it, but again, it's the extensions that matters most.  uBlock can be installed in Pale Moon with some workarounds, but not many others, for example I couldn't find anything on par with the "Dark Reader" from the current FF.

If you consider Browser+Extensions as a packet, then there are 2 options:
- use a big distribution, like Chrome or Firefox, they have all the extensions in the world
- use a well packed browser that comes with most of the extensions preinstalled, like Opera or Brave.

So far, the most freedom combined with abundance of extensions is in Firefox.  Chrome scares me.  Opera is good, but is still running on the fame of Opera 12 and before.  They lost the leadership when they decided to re-write Opera 12, and since then, they struggle.  Opera is nice, but they won't have a second chance at becoming the top desktop browser again, especially considering the number of desktop users is getting smaller fast.

To me, it looks like Firefox is the last desktop browser still reminding of the era when the Internet was unrestricted.

[blacksheeplogic]

I generally don't use or install a desktop but when I do and need a browser I install chrome. It works well enough for my basic uses. All browsers report home, there is no getting away from that.

[Karel]

All browsers report home, there is no getting away from that.

Well, that may be true, but what counts for me is how often and what exactly do they report home, and what do "they" do with that information?
There's a huge difference between, for example chrome/google and Firefox/Mozilla, in what they collect and and for what purpose.

[HoracioDos]

Vivaldi here and everywhere. Windows and Linux. Very easy to update in both worlds

[Benta]

I've tried Brave, couldn't find the equivalent functionality for some of the extensions I'm using very often in FF, and that was a showstopper.  Also, in Ubuntu Brave came as a snap install, which means it will fire up much slower than a native install.  I am avoiding snaps.

I installed Brave two days ago and am still testing it, but what I see until now I like a lot.

Actually it's a .deb install using PPA, the snap install exists, but is still in development, so not really recommended.

But my needs are different to yours, I want a lightweight browser with maximum security. Until now it was Opera, but as that is now Chinese I'm switching.

[fourtytwo42]

If it's any help my 64bit Lubuntu 18.04 just upgraded to FF 94.0 and it's a breath of fresh air, much faster than several previous releases that were getting slower & slower, not being a FF expert I have no idea why, look & feel doesn't seem to have changed other than a few new stupid (IMOP) options I instantly disabled.

[Benta]

OK, have now played around with Brave today.
First, it's damned fast. Faster than Opera.
Adblocking is just automatic, I don't need to worry about it at all.
Rendering is good, opening PDFs work, audio/video etc. as well.

It's my new default browser.

[YurkshireLad]

OK, have now played around with Brave today.
First, it's damned fast. Faster than Opera.
Adblocking is just automatic, I don't need to worry about it at all.
Rendering is good, opening PDFs work, audio/video etc. as well.

It's my new default browser.

What do they use for ad blocking? An existing extension or their own custom extension?

[Benta]

What do they use for ad blocking? An existing extension or their own custom extension?

It's built in. Like in Opera. What's behind, I don't know. I'm just the user.