Why I hate Apple (computers)

[Halcyon]

I know this is probably going to start a miniature war, and there will be people telling me "I did it wrong", but I need to rant.

My partner has an older Intel-based MacBook and whilst it doesn't support the current version of macOS, it's still a capable machine for internet browsing and watching the odd movie or two.

Anyway, for whatever reason, macOS was struggling. Things took forever to load, it was sluggish, something was not quite right. Probably just full of bloat from years of use. So I thought, let's just backup his shit, format, re-install the OS. Simple enough... right? After copying all his files to a USB drive (because the status of the Apple iCloud sync wasn't clear, there was no simple way to tell whether all his files were uploaded or not, so it was quicker and easier to do it the old fashioned way, rather than risk data loss), I followed the instructions on Apple's website to wipe the disk and re-install the OS. Now, whilst I'm not an "Apple person", I've used them for years and know quite a bit about the hardware and software, but I had the guide open just to make sure I was doing the right thing.

I knew erasing the disk was also going to erase the recovery partition, that's fine. Don't really care about that since it can be set up again. Booted back up into the "internet recovery" mode, is where the first hurdle began...apparently, even though macOS and the wireless card in this machine supports WPA3 networks, the built-in firmware doesn't. It sees my network but refuses to connect to it. No reason, just a "nup, can't do it" generic error message. Once I resolved that (by creating and connecting to a WPA2 network), the machine locks up. Reboot and it wants to sign-in using his Apple ID (for reasons unknown), but that didn't work. It just refused to login or connect even though the connection was working and the correct credentials were being offered. No matter, skip that crap for now. It eventually began downloading and installing the OS.

Except, that it wasn't the latest supported version of macOS for this machine. Instead, it went and grabbed a copy of macOS X 10 (Yosemite) which is almost 9 years old now. After getting this up and running, I figured I'd check and install updates. A few downloads and reboots later, we were "up to date". Except that we weren't. We were still stuck on OS 10. Even searching the Apple App Store, there was no sign of a later version of macOS. Eventually I found a link on Apple's website in some blog post which manually took me to where the OS update lived, but of course, you can't just download it and run the package... no no no... it forces you to use the App Store.

But before you can download anything, you have to sign-in using your Apple ID. After entering in the correct username and password, it claimed the login was incorrect. 45 minutes went by and after lots of swearing and threatening to throw the machine into the bush like a Frisbee, it was by pure chance that I found some obscure instruction which said I needed enter in the password, let the authentication fail, then enter the password again along with appending the 2FA code to the end. Oddly enough, that worked. Why the hell did I need to play this guessing game? If this was some kind of weird legacy requirement, why not say so in the application itself?

Secondly, why not just provide the OS as an ISO image to be installed from a USB drive? Why all this fucking around and signing-in to stupid cloud-based garbage? Too bad if you wanted to use this machine offline. This whole process just re-affirmed three key points:

• If you're running legacy hardware, you're on your own, good luck.
• If you don't do things Apple's way, too bad, so sad.
• The hardware, whilst it may be glorious, is let down by the awful experience of macOS itself.

OK rant over.

[JeremyC]

I know this is probably going to start a miniature war, and there will be people telling me "I did it wrong", but I need to rant.

My partner has an older Intel-based MacBook and whilst it doesn't support the current version of macOS, it's still a capable machine for internet browsing and watching the odd movie or two.

Anyway, for whatever reason, macOS was struggling. Things took forever to load, it was sluggish, something was not quite right. Probably just full of bloat from years of use. So I thought, let's just backup his shit, format, re-install the OS. Simple enough... right? After copying all his files to a USB drive (because the status of the Apple iCloud sync wasn't clear, there was no simple way to tell whether all his files were uploaded or not, so it was quicker and easier to do it the old fashioned way, rather than risk data loss), I followed the instructions on Apple's website to wipe the disk and re-install the OS. Now, whilst I'm not an "Apple person", I've used them for years and know quite a bit about the hardware and software, but I had the guide open just to make sure I was doing the right thing.

I knew erasing the disk was also going to erase the recovery partition, that's fine. Don't really care about that since it can be set up again. Booted back up into the "internet recovery" mode, is where the first hurdle began...apparently, even though macOS and the wireless card in this machine supports WPA3 networks, the built-in firmware doesn't. It sees my network but refuses to connect to it. No reason, just a "nup, can't do it" generic error message. Once I resolved that (by creating and connecting to a WPA2 network), the machine locks up. Reboot and it wants to sign-in using his Apple ID (for reasons unknown), but that didn't work. It just refused to login or connect even though the connection was working and the correct credentials were being offered. No matter, skip that crap for now. It eventually began downloading and installing the OS.

Except, that it wasn't the latest supported version of macOS for this machine. Instead, it went and grabbed a copy of macOS X 10 (Yosemite) which is almost 9 years old now. After getting this up and running, I figured I'd check and install updates. A few downloads and reboots later, we were "up to date". Except that we weren't. We were still stuck on OS 10. Even searching the Apple App Store, there was no sign of a later version of macOS. Eventually I found a link on Apple's website in some blog post which manually took me to where the OS update lived, but of course, you can't just download it and run the package... no no no... it forces you to use the App Store.

But before you can download anything, you have to sign-in using your Apple ID. After entering in the correct username and password, it claimed the login was incorrect. 45 minutes went by and after lots of swearing and threatening to throw the machine into the bush like a Frisbee, it was by pure chance that I found some obscure instruction which said I needed enter in the password, let the authentication fail, then enter the password again along with appending the 2FA code to the end. Oddly enough, that worked. Why the hell did I need to play this guessing game? If this was some kind of weird legacy requirement, why not say so in the application itself?

Secondly, why not just provide the OS as an ISO image to be installed from a USB drive? Why all this fucking around and signing-in to stupid cloud-based garbage? Too bad if you wanted to use this machine offline. This whole process just re-affirmed three key points:

• If you're running legacy hardware, you're on your own, good luck.
• If you don't do things Apple's way, too bad, so sad.
• The hardware, whilst it may be glorious, is let down by the awful experience of macOS itself.

OK rant over.

I suggest to break the relation with Apple. Try zeroing the hard drive and install a free OS like Linux or FreeBSD, btw, MacOS is abbreviated from BDS
Well, it may not possible to with newer version (after  2012?) of hardware manufactured by Apple...

[dobsonr741]

How to create a bootable installer: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

[TheNewLab]

Hey I love rants. And Apple computers have been around me since the IIe
Thank you because

If you ever have to do this again, I highly recommend dosdude1's installers:

http://dosdude1.com/software.html

Now I have a new resource for patching older Mac!!!!  Specifically a 2011 iMac given to me that Apple auto updated the OS on line and crashed her computer.

THANK YOU!!

[DiTBho]

My partner has an older Intel-based MacBook and whilst it doesn't support the current version of macOS, it's still a capable machine for internet browsing and watching the odd movie or two.

Yup, for me Apple is that way:
- the hardware is 1.6x expensive than common PCs
- every three/four years you have to buy a new machine
- "re-purposing" old Apple hw is an option with GNU/Linux

[DiTBho]

I suggest to break the relation with Apple

Yup, it's what I do, just ... sometimes you specifically buy apple hardware because you need software available only to apple.

(Like, Finalcut on { M1, M2, ... })

[magic]

I know this is probably going to start a miniature war, and there will be people telling me "I did it wrong", but I need to rant.

Of course, it's EEVBlog computers forum, everybody will tell you you should have nuked it and installed Linux
Even Fruit Inc is gently hinting at it

Myself, I couldn't stand their software at all, whether it's installable or not.

[BradC]

- the hardware is 1.6x expensive than common PCs
- every three/four years you have to buy a new machine

Just a single anecdotal data point :

My 11 year old iMac and 8 year old MacBookPro disagree with you, as does my Wifes 11 year old iMac.
Given what I spent on my iMac back in 2011, and what I just spent putting together a desktop to replace it, I'd say it was pretty price competitive. Likewise, when I replaced my last of many Sony Vaio with the MBP, the price was about the same. The difference is I never got more than 5 years from the Vaios. I don't see the MBP turning up its toes any time soon.

[JPortici]

I like rants, and of course you were "doing it wrong" I had to do the same over the years and instead of doing things on my own i checked guides, just to be sure. And i'm glad i did (also if you want a specific OSX version you can still download it from the app store, it's just that the page is not public and not reacheable if you don't have the direct link and obviously there are websites that post all links)

- the hardware is 1.6x expensive than common PCs
- every three/four years you have to buy a new machine

Just a single anecdotal data point :

My 11 year old iMac and 8 year old MacBookPro disagree with you, as does my Wifes 11 year old iMac.
Given what I spent on my iMac back in 2011, and what I just spent putting together a desktop to replace it, I'd say it was pretty price competitive. Likewise, when I replaced my last of many Sony Vaio with the MBP, the price was about the same. The difference is I never got more than 5 years from the Vaios. I don't see the MBP turning up its toes any time soon.

My Mid 2012 also disagrees. Perfect machine to browse and watch movies on. And play music (with actual instruments, that was my workhorse for years, using mainstage. If i resumed playing today i will still use it, upgrading costs too much these days)

[DiTBho]

My 11 year old iMac and 8 year old MacBookPro disagree with you

Things like Finalcut are strictly MacOS-dependent: if you cannot update the OS, then you cannot update the App.
So, you buy a new mac. Problem solved, and it's not even that bad because you can gradually writing off the initial cost of an asset if you use it for business.

[DiTBho]

The real problem is: why the new Final Cut runs 10% slower than the previous version, and why the new MacOS makes the same version of FinalCut running on the same M1-hardware 20% slower than previous OS version?

Update FinalCut, same M1 platform, same MacOS: 10% slower
same FinalCut, same M1 platform, update MacOS: 20% slower

" 'cause Apple-science " 

[BradC]

My 11 year old iMac and 8 year old MacBookPro disagree with you

Things like Finalcut are strictly MacOS-dependent: if you cannot update the OS, then you cannot update the App.
So, you buy a new mac. Problem solved, and it's not even that bad because you can gradually writing off the initial cost of an asset if you use it for business.

OpenCore Legacy Patcher. All macs are running currently supported (Latest-1) operating systems.

[DiTBho]

OpenCore Legacy Patcher

With Apple "open" is nothing but an euphemism 

[DiTBho]

Anyway, we are talking about this (OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher). I report here for those who want to read and try it.

[AndyBeez]

The advantage of ageing Apple hardware (other than the affordability) is there is a good chance of parts being replaced and/or upgraded by the technically competent. More DDR, an SSD, even a new battery. This is an option for models up to the year 2014, when afterwards, Apple began welding DDR and SSD chipsets directly onto the motherboard - not to mention their glue not screw design philosophy. Regardless of patching up to the latest unsupported OS, or Linux, welded DDR and SSD makes the latest models guaranteed to become paperweights by 2030. Especially for those who could not afford an extra $200 to 'upgrade' their Mac SSD from 128G to 256G at the Apple Store.

Anyway, for MacOS dudes playing at home, know your Mac startup and recovery key combinations: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201255

From experience, for recovering an OS over the internet, always use the ethernet cable as the wifi flips off and on in random ways.

btw [OP] have you tried resetting the NVRAM? Power-on + Option-Command-P-R

[Halcyon]

Thanks for all your thoughts and feedback. I did actually try installing the latest version (which is apparently "fully supported" by this machine using OpenCore Legacy Patcher).
It mostly works although the screen resolution is stuck at 2560x1600 with no option to change it as the OS identifies the built-in LCD as an "unknown display". Whilst it's fine for my eyes, my partner disagrees. And that's fine. It's his machine, I'm not going to tell him how to live his life.

Performance is also quite sluggish (even on 8 GB RAM) but that's probably due to the CPU. Some things tend to glitch or just lock up completely. I'll try macOS 12 and if that fails, roll back to the last officially supported version.

For those playing along at home, the machine is a A1534 (MF855LL/A). Last supported macOS version is 11 (Big Sur).

[shapirus]

Think different™: develop a lab PSU and make your negative terminals red and positive terminals black and call it an innovation. Then, eventually, admit it wasn't the best idea and make them both white and change the sockets from 4 mm round to 3.7 mm triangular. Sell adapters to 4mm round separately.

[DiTBho]

Anyway, I *HATE* IBM and Microsoft for a lot of reasons, including that crazy "DOS mode" still in Linux utilities (because RedHat wants to support legacy stuff, the wrong way) and keeps partitions aligned on cylinder boundaries , which have been anachronistic since the late 90s.

Why would my MIPS-router (which doesn't even have a BIOS) support that crazy wrong shit?!? Why is the firmware expected to work with a PC partition instead of a MacPartition?

At least with the PowerMacs Apple has done something better!

[shapirus]

crazy "DOS mode" still in Linux utilities

what's that?

and keeps partitions aligned on cylinder boundaries

this is simply not true, unless you (or your distribution maker) force the partitioning tool to align on cylinder boundaries (in case you need to work with older hardware). default behavior has been to align on megabyte boundaries for a good 10 or 15 years.

fdisk hasn't been using CHS addressing either, for a very long time:

Code: [Select]

$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda
Disk /dev/sda: 5.46 TiB, 6001175126016 bytes, 11721045168 sectors
Disk model: ST6000NE000-2KR1
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
Disklabel type: gpt
Disk identifier: F4E06B31-3AC4-AC40-A325-3F2F9280AED2

Device     Start         End     Sectors  Size Type
/dev/sda1   2048 11721045134 11721043087  5.5T Linux filesystem

Yes, it uses this kibi/mebi/gibi/tebibytes nonsense. The developers fell for this crap unfortunately. Kilobyte is, just like it has always been, 2^10=1024 bytes, this is etched in stone, you cannot simply declare 1 kilobyte = 1000 bytes. It's the same as declaring Pi = 3 or tab width = 4 or, god forbid, 2.

[DiTBho]

and keeps partitions this is simply not true, unless

sys-apps/util-linux-v2.17.2 (2009) has that madness thing and I wasted this morning to fix the rootfs of my MIPS router.

For many reasons I can't just "update" the whole rootfs, so I prepared a hybrid solution (1) and figured out that somehow the bug was somehow "fixed" probably only after 2011, while it took me only 5 minutes to prepare the patch.

And that's even more funny, because mac-part has never had that problem! Not even the 2008 version!
So, when I look at computers, I see how much { Microsoft, IBM/Personal Computer division, Intel } have pulled the handbrake on for years, and how much inertia we have in keeping "bugs" (even silly bugs) really fixed.


(1) { /sbin/cfdisk, /sbin/sfdisk, /sbin/fdisk} purged from sys-apps/util-linux-v2.17.2, sys-apps/util-linux-v{2.20, 2.24} retro-fitted to portage eabi-2 as "overlay", patched, and re-emerged.
(5 minutes to prepare the patch, 3 hours to prepare/test/commit the overlay)

Code: [Select]

# fdisk.old /dev/sda
fdisk.original /dev/sda

Command (m for help): p

Disk /dev/sda: 4095 MB, 4095737856 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 497 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1               1           2        8192   27  Unknown
Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary.
/dev/sda2               2          18      131072   82  Linux swap / Solaris
Partition 2 does not end on cylinder boundary.
/dev/sda3              18         498     3859456   83  Linux
Partition 3 does not end on cylinder boundary.
/dev/sda4               1           1         992+  83  Linux
Partition 4 does not end on cylinder boundary.

Partition table entries are not in disk order

Command (m for help):


Code: [Select]

# fdisk /dev/sda

Command (m for help): p

Disk /dev/sda: 4095 MB, 4095737856 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 497 cylinders, total 7999488 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x4b566c84

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1            2048       18431        8192   27  RouterBoot Raw
/dev/sda2           18432      280575      131072   82  swap
/dev/sda3          280576     7999487     3859456   83  unix
/dev/sda4              63        2047         992+  83  unix

Command (m for help):


[BradC]

and keeps partitions this is simply not true, unless

sys-apps/util-linux-v2.17.2 (2009) has that madness thing and I wasted this morning to fix the rootfs of my MIPS router.

For many reasons I can't just "update" the whole rootfs, so I prepared a hybrid solution (1) and figured out that somehow the bug was somehow "fixed" probably only after 2011, while it took me only 5 minutes to prepare the patch.

That code you reference is nearly 14 years old, and back then the whole "partition alignment" was still a thing. Don't go blaming the tools.

[Ed.Kloonk]

One thing I've always admired about Apple was when they switched the whole shebang to x86. Not so much the decision to do it or whatever. And I realize it wasn't exactly seamless.

[DiTBho]

That code you reference is nearly 14 years old, and back then the whole "partition alignment" was still a thing. Don't go blaming the tools.

And that's even more funny, because mac-part has never had that problem! Not even the 2008 version!
So, when I look at computers, I see how much { Microsoft, IBM/Personal Computer division, Intel } have pulled the handbrake on for years

I blame the inertia.
The point was/is: at least Apple has less inertia.

[themadhippy]

.

apparently, even though macOS and the wireless card in this machine supports WPA3 networks, the built-in firmware doesn't. It sees my network but refuses to connect to it. No reason, just a "nup, can't do it" generic error message.

Now come on thats not just  a mac thing,windows also is guilty of such nonsense.My main machine needs a driver loaded before windows can see the network port,it even helpfully offers to search the internet for a suitable driver,but without a network port there's no internet.Meanwhile linux on the same machine and  the network port works straight off ,even with a live cd.

[Halcyon]

.

apparently, even though macOS and the wireless card in this machine supports WPA3 networks, the built-in firmware doesn't. It sees my network but refuses to connect to it. No reason, just a "nup, can't do it" generic error message.

Now come on thats not just  a mac thing,windows also is guilty of such nonsense.My main machine needs a driver loaded before windows can see the network port,it even helpfully offers to search the internet for a suitable driver,but without a network port there's no internet.Meanwhile linux on the same machine and  the network port works straight off ,even with a live cd.

That's very true, it just added to my frustrations. What was more annoying was that the Mac could see the network (and even identified it as a WPA3 network). Why it wouldn't connect is beyond me. Once the OS was loaded, it was fine.