Windows 7 vs Windows 10??

[pcdroid13]

I am formatting my computer, I am struggling to decide on which windows to install.
Windows 10 does not ask the user whether to install updates or not.Let me know your views on which to choose a version of the window.

[digsys]

There's at least 1 huge thread on this subject already. It also generates a lot of "heated discussion", so I'd do a search first and get an idea of what has been posted.

[Mr. Scram]

Windows 7 support is ending early next year, so the sensible choice is Windows 10. If you want to get into the differences between both versions you'd better close this thread now because that's inevitably a matter of personal preference and has already been discussed to death without people changing their strong opinions. You just end up with heated and slightly unpleasant discussions.

[Jeroen3]

If you can obtain a license for Windows 10 LTSC, use that one.

[Mr. Scram]

If you can obtain a license for Windows 10 LTSC, use that one.

I don't think I've ever seen a legal non evaluation copy of the LTSC.

[Ranayna]

For new installations, Windows 7 should not be used anymore. One expection might be fully airgapped systems, but i assume that would not be the case for you.
So, if you really dislike Windows 10, you should carefully consider if you need Windows at all. For many things, Linux can be a very good alternative. Not for me sadly, i play too many games 

If you need or want Windows, choose Windows 10. I am still not a user myself, but i have read quite a bit about it. The latestest version now actually lets you postpone updates, even indefinetly, if you want. Also, i have heard that Microsoft supposedly will change the way major updates are installed, so those are not a full background re-install anymore. There are also, as far as i know, programs that let you change back the look and feel, at least somewhat.

Regarding LTSC, sometimes still called LTSB: Regardless of their availability (it is not available as single, off the shelf license, which is true for EDU versions as well), it is also somewhat limited in functionality, and for example cannot run the latest Office version. Though that may only apply to Office 365.

The one thing that still holds me off personally are the many privacy issues, since you still cannot fully disable telemetry without an external solution.

[SiliconWizard]

If you're going for Win 10 and want at least some control over your computer, buy at least the Pro version. It gives you back some control over many things including updates. The Home version is a joke - just stay away if you can.

I'm still on 7 and I don't know what I'm going to do yet. I actually use Win 7 mostly for professional stuff requiring Windows - almost all my "home" uses, and some of my pro ones are now covered by Linux.

Sure there will be potential security issues once the support is over for Win 7 - but is this worse than the constant telemetry of Win 10, and the regular messed-up updates? I'm still baffled.

[Mr. Scram]

For new installations, Windows 7 should not be used anymore. One expection might be fully airgapped systems, but i assume that would not be the case for you.
So, if you really dislike Windows 10, you should carefully consider if you need Windows at all. For many things, Linux can be a very good alternative. Not for me sadly, i play too many games 

If you need or want Windows, choose Windows 10. I am still not a user myself, but i have read quite a bit about it. The latestest version now actually lets you postpone updates, even indefinetly, if you want. Also, i have heard that Microsoft supposedly will change the way major updates are installed, so those are not a full background re-install anymore. There are also, as far as i know, programs that let you change back the look and feel, at least somewhat.

Regarding LTSC, sometimes still called LTSB: Regardless of their availability (it is not available as single, off the shelf license, which is true for EDU versions as well), it is also somewhat limited in functionality, and for example cannot run the latest Office version. Though that may only apply to Office 365.

The one thing that still holds me off personally are the many privacy issues, since you still cannot fully disable telemetry without an external solution.

The Enterprise and Education versions *should* allow to disable telemetry. If not, Microsoft will have a lot of angry and fairly powerful customers to answer to.

[Ranayna]

SiliconWizard is right about the Pro version. I forgot to mention that because i thought it is obvious. That is why i mentioned the EDU version: There you can turn of telemetry completly, i assume this is related to COPPA.

The security of course is determined by how you use it, and how it is connected to the internet.

I personally think, if there is even just one single port forwarded to your box, you should not stay on Windows 7. Especially something like Remote Desktop. MS even released a Windows XP patch, because a security flaw in RDP allowed a full takeover of the machine. With such forwardings, it is also imperative to not delay patching for too long. A couple of weeks or even a month is fine though: Give all the others the time to find and report the issues :p

My own box is primarily a gaming machine, and has no port forwardings at all. If that was all i am doing, i could reasonably expect to stay on 7. But support for Windows 7 is already flaky in the gaming area (for example Direct X 11 vs. 12), so i will switch sooner or later.
By the way, the free upgrade from Windows 7 supposedly still works. You should be able to simply enter your Win 7 product keyduring the installation of Windows 10.

EDIT: Normal Enterprise does not allow you to turn of telemetry fully. At my company we had to work quite some time to find acceptable outbound firewall settings to block most (hopefully ) telememtry, without affecting functionality, and it is scary to see the number of requests that are blocked all the time.

[Mr. Scram]

SiliconWizard is right about the Pro version. I forgot to mention that because i thought it is obvious. That is why i mentioned the EDU version: There you can turn of telemetry completly, i assume this is related to COPPA.

The security of course is determined by how you use it, and how it is connected to the internet.

I personally think, if there is even just one single port forwarded to your box, you should not stay on Windows 7. Especially something like Remote Desktop. MS even released a Windows XP patch, because a security flaw in RDP allowed a full takeover of the machine. With such forwardings, it is also imperative to not delay patching for too long. A couple of weeks or even a month is fine though: Give all the others the time to find and report the issues :p

My own box is primarily a gaming machine, and has no port forwardings at all. If that was all i am doing, i could reasonably expect to stay on 7. But support for Windows 7 is already flaky in the gaming area (for example Direct X 11 vs. 12), so i will switch sooner or later.
By the way, the free upgrade from Windows 7 supposedly still works. You should be able to simply enter your Win 7 product keyduring the installation of Windows 10.

EDIT: Normal Enterprise does not allow you to turn of telemetry fully. At my company we had to work quite some time to find acceptable outbound firewall settings to block most (hopefully ) telememtry, without affecting functionality, and it is scary to see the number of requests that are blocked all the time.

Can you elaborate on telemetry not being turned off fully? They added that feature because companies wouldn't have it. I can't imagine some big and somewhat powerful companies not raising hell when it turns out telemetry still not being turned off.

[SiliconWizard]

That is why i mentioned the EDU version: There you can turn of telemetry completly, i assume this is related to COPPA.

It's probably illegal to use it for personal or business use though?

By the way, the free upgrade from Windows 7 supposedly still works. You should be able to simply enter your Win 7 product keyduring the installation of Windows 10.

Really? Are you sure of that?

[Jeroen3]

I think this only applies to retail versions of Windows 7.

[Halcyon]

Allow me to offer my unbiased perspective.

Up until recently I've been a Windows/Intel guy. I've used just about every version of Windows (workstation and server) and I know them and the MS-DOS command prompt inside out. I spent years building and administering Windows-based networks.

When Windows 10 was released, I tried it for 6 months with an open mind, but even in that time, I couldn't warm up to it. My experience was horrible. I also use Windows 10 at work to this day and my experience and opinion hasn't changed.

Microsoft seems to have taken a lot of things that were good about Windows and features that just worked and flushed them down the toilet.

For every one thing I like about Windows 10, there are five others I absolutely hate. It's so bad that Windows 7 is the last version of Windows I'll ever install on my home computers.   I have since switched to Linux (Fedora Workstation) full-time and I absolutely love it.

[SilverSolder]

How compatible is Win 10 when it comes to drivers for older printers, scanners, and the like...   do Win 7 drivers still work?

[wilfred]

Allow me to offer my unbiased perspective.

<snipped>
Microsoft seems to have taken a lot of things that were good about Windows and features that just worked and flushed them down the toilet.
<snipped>

How about the biased version just to give a perspective for comparison.

[Mr. Scram]

How about the biased version just to give a perspective for comparison.

You don't understand. He's unbiased. It says it right there under his name: Mo-de-ra-tor. 

[Halcyon]

Allow me to offer my unbiased perspective.

<snipped>
Microsoft seems to have taken a lot of things that were good about Windows and features that just worked and flushed them down the toilet.
<snipped>

How about the biased version just to give a perspective for comparison.

I'm a Windows guy and there is absolutely nothing wrong with Windows 10, it's not shit, you're just doing it wrong. ;-)

</sarcasm>

[Halcyon]

In any case, what I meant by "unbiased" was that ask me 10 or 15 years ago, it was Windows for pretty much every application. It was quite difficult to turn my back on decades of Windows/DOS knowledge (although it does make transitioning into Linux quite simple). I wish Windows didn't go down the toilet and that they didn't absolutely butcher the user interface, but it is what it is. I didn't go down the Apple route because I refuse to spend thousands of dollars on a machine which I can build myself for half the price.

Although Linux's overall market share is still tiny compared to Windows, I think the steady increase in users year after year isn't by accident.

[nctnico]

I'm facing a similar situation.  I would much prefer to stay with Windows 7, but MS will stop security updates to Win7 in January, so I don't see any alternative to going to Win10.  Or Linux.  But I just don't think you can stay on the internet these days without security updates.  If MS changes its mind, or somebody else provides the updates, then I would gladly stick with Win7.  I really dread switching to Win10.

For as long as your computer is not connected to internet or a public network you don't really need OS security patches. What you do need to keep up-to-date is your web browser, e-mail program and malware/virus scanner. These are the points of entry. The network not so much.

[Mr. Scram]

For as long as your computer is not connected to internet or a public network you don't really need OS security patches. What you do need to keep up-to-date is your web browser, e-mail program and malware/virus scanner. These are the points of entry. The network not so much.

All the things you mention depend on the integrity and security of the OS. Running an OS unpatched while using the internet is asking for trouble. Even if what you say is true the smallest mistake could leave a very soft and vulnerable system suddenly exposed. Unfortunately that has been discussed numerous times before and people tend to hold on to their risky beliefs.

[MyHeadHz]

To answer your question, Windows 10.  It is gradually becoming an "OS as a service", but there is not really any other real choice as it belongs to Microsoft and that is what they have decided to do.  They will gradually force you off of Windows 7 (at least if you need Internet access for it), so you may as well get used to it.

I strongly recommend giving Linux a shot.  It's quite good and easy to transition to now, and when you need to do anything in Windows, you can just run it in a virtual machine- the best of all worlds. 

[Electro Detective]

@ pcdroid13  only   

If you don't want to find out the hard way    stick with a fresh install of Win 7 

If you need to go further than 7 without stuffing about with bossy boots 10,

there is always Win 8 and 8.1, which allow you to control what and what will not be installed by MS,
and any legit updates only how and when YOU specify

Linux is great, but not convenient for all current Windows users, but well worth a play to get familiar   

But whatever you do, don't get dragged off into the Mac camp,
it won't be pretty after the honeymoon new user period is over, and the shiny hardware loses it's polish    
Basically it's handballing yourself from Win 10 to a rocky mountain Mac '10'   

Win 7 is good for a few years yet, as is XP, Vista.. 

[NorthGuy]

I wouldn't call forced install of unwanted spyware and adware "security patches".

On the other hand, look at all those viruses devastating computer systems here and there. I'm sure all these computers had "security patches" installed. Didn't help them.

Sure, there's always a danger of virus, but IMHO it's much lesser evil than Windows 10.

[Mr. Scram]

I wouldn't call forced install of unwanted spyware and adware "security patches".

On the other hand, look at all those viruses devastating computer systems here and there. I'm sure all these computers had "security patches" installed. Didn't help them.

Sure, there's always a danger of virus, but IMHO it's much lesser evil than Windows 10.

They actually didn't. Almost all of the outbreaks we hear about were in organisations who didn't properly patch their systems. Zero days are quite rare for generic malware. They tend to stick to published vulnerabilities. There's a lot to be said about the current Microsoft policies, but reducing Windows updates to "unwanted spyware and adware" and nothing else is being intentionally dishonest. Let's aim for some nuance, because we already have too much flinging of polarized shit.

[NorthGuy]

There's a lot to be said about the current Microsoft policies, but reducing Windows updates to "unwanted spyware and adware" and nothing else is being intentionally dishonest. Let's aim for some nuance, ...

I don't really know what they're doing. The computer is a tool for me to use. Their OS already had everything that I need (except for modern hardware support) somewhere at Windows NT stage. All the later upgrades brought only one thing which I use - nice mouse gestures in Windows 7, which they then somewhat over-complicated in Windows 8. The things I have noticed in newer versions is screwed-up user interface, bugs, over-bloat, spyware, adware etc ... Not a single thing that I like.