Author Topic: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??  (Read 4642 times)

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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #125 on: October 01, 2019, 01:26:05 pm »
CNC machines (some older models when I worked with a Japanese company doing electric and electronic maintenance were machines that used specific images of Windows 95/98. When I left the company they were starting to sell machines with Windows XP installed);
old and used LeCroy GHz DSO like SDA6000/DDA3000/SDA5005 also with XP in it. cant run on Win7 since some hardwares are not detected correctly, some still using 1.44MB diskette drive go figure. one may choose between this used machine and newest OS machine at the same spec except modern, priced 5 to 6 figures, they may suit themselves.

Yeah, the TDS5000 series was using Windows 2000. They were basically using a pretty classic PC motherboard inside (like micro-atx or something like that), but all the specific drivers and software was specifically written for Windows 2000 and wouldn't work on any more recent OS version. Updating the Windows 2000 to the latest SP would usually work though IIRC (but trying that would be 100% at your own risk.)

 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #126 on: October 01, 2019, 06:04:16 pm »
old and used LeCroy GHz DSO like SDA6000/DDA3000/SDA5005 also with XP in it. cant run on Win7 since some hardwares are not detected correctly, some still using 1.44MB diskette drive go figure. one may choose between this used machine and newest OS machine at the same spec except modern, priced 5 to 6 figures, they may suit themselves.
No one would network those old dinosaurs so that's obviously not what's discussed. Being or acting obtuse doesn't help the discussion.
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #127 on: October 01, 2019, 06:16:26 pm »
Sneaker net. The one network that will never die!
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #128 on: October 01, 2019, 06:18:49 pm »
the OP doesnt mention about networking in the first place  :-// and those old monster centainly can be networked.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #129 on: October 01, 2019, 06:22:32 pm »
Sneaker net. The one network that will never die!
A Stuxnet type vector where the infection is carried in is always a possibility but those seem to be comparatively rare. When you start swapping media you are definitely more vulnerable than when fully isolated.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #130 on: October 01, 2019, 06:26:19 pm »
the OP doesnt mention about networking in the first place  :-// and those old monster centainly can be networked.
He was obviously talking about a daily driver. Stop muddying the water already.
 

Offline nigelwright7557

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #131 on: November 30, 2019, 04:39:30 pm »
I have been on Win10 since it came out.
It was a bit unstable to start with but seems mostly ok now.
You can put off updates if you like.
I sell software and am shocked by how many people still use XP
You really need an up to date OS with anti virus software if you use the internet.
You can pick up Win10 pro keys for a few GBP on ebay so there is no excuse.
PCBCAD51 PCB design software https://www.murtonpikesystems.co.uk
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #132 on: November 30, 2019, 07:13:34 pm »
Windows 10 is shit, that's the only excuse I need. I'm not one of those people who rips on something endlessly that I've never tried either, I was forced to use it for nearly 2 years at a former job and I found myself cursing it endlessly on a daily basis, it is the most user-hostile operating system I have ever had the displeasure of touching. So many times I'd walk into a meeting or have some urgent task I needed to do and find that my laptop was insisting on updating and the machine was out of commission for a half hour or more. Yes I know, enterprise gives more control but like many companies out there mine was smallish and too cheap to go that route so we were using Pro. The user interface was hideous, the most fugly, bland thing since Windows 3.0. It had a bunch of useless apps installed that I could not get rid of, at least not without significant difficulty and they would frequently come back like zombies after I had killed them. My settings were constantly getting changed, from the superior 3rd party software I had installed back to the default MS crap. More than once it uninstalled software I had installed because it said it was incompatible, but if I reinstalled it it worked fine. It just felt like it was fighting me every step of the way, which is something a freaking operating system has no business doing.

I've been migrating to Linux for a few years and most of my ancillary machines are running that now so it's the path forward should Win7 ever become non-viable. For now I'm going to stick with 7 on my daily driver though, partly because I actually quite like Win7 and partly because I know it will cause much hand wringing amongst the Chicken Littles who are screaming that the sky is falling and all these dire things are going to happen and everyone is gonna die just like they did back when XP support ended. Well after some 20 years of having various unsupported OS's connected to the internet I'm still waiting for one to get p@wned and it still hasn't happened. Given the amount of grief I've experienced dealing with Win10 I'd still come out ahead if something finally got hacked now.

I've cleaned up many, many infected, malware and virus infested machines for people and the one thing every one of those cases has had in common so far is they became infected by the user installing something, either infected warez, crapware surreptitiously bundled with legitimate software, or they weren't running an ad blocker and fell for one of those fake antivirus popups or email attachments. Many of these were fully patched fully up to date systems but of course you can't patch the user and that is by far the most common attack vector for personal computers. I run an up to date browser, use adblock and noscript religiously, and use some common sense, that has saved me from having any issues with infections. I disabled Windows Update completely years ago when MS started abusing it, incorporating malware tactics to push Windows 10. At this point the cure is truly worse than the disease, but there are of course rabid apologists who will excuse anything and everything that MS does, and some I'm sure are shills who have a vested financial interest in everyone adopting Win10.
 
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Online Jeroen3

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #133 on: November 30, 2019, 09:51:50 pm »
To be fair. I'm using windows 10 for a few months now. And they do learn, although slowly.

I've installed it by decrapifying in the audit mode, this gets you rid of all the recurring UWP apps.
The pro version allows you to delay feature updates for a year, so the "october update deletes your files" will probably go by me. And also patches can be delayed a month.
You still can only delay the inevitable rebooting for a maximum of 7 days though. So Windows 10, even LTSC which replaces embedded, is unsuitable for 24/7 operation!
Windows MUST HAVE a reboot once a month. There is only one other scenario I can think of that requires this, bugs.

Anyway, for a workstation this is fine.

Windows 10 still hides common settings in this ridiculous tablet mode. Getting to the network adapter overview is a pita, so much for many similar things.
The lack of decent shell inhibits effective productivity and is imho just a job creator.
However, they do try with powershell, but it's still not finished or the wrong time. As always with Microsoft products. Their product is wrong or they are doing it at the wrong time.

I wonder if the server product line is just as bad...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 09:53:26 pm by Jeroen3 »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #134 on: November 30, 2019, 10:16:55 pm »
In my very limited experience administering Windows servers, the server versions of the OS are much better. They still have the fugly UI but that doesn't really matter for a server and you can do most of the administration via powershell now. I can't think of many reasons to run a Windows server anymore though, and outside of Microsoft itself, *nix experience is far more valuable on the job market. Most tech companies are all Linux on the back end these days.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #135 on: November 30, 2019, 10:35:48 pm »
[...] I wonder if the [Microsoft] server product line is just as bad...

Server 2003 is actually quite good!  :)
 

Offline LeonR

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #136 on: December 01, 2019, 10:33:11 pm »
I'm experiencing a weird thing on my Win 10 (that didn't happened back when I had 7): Sometimes my mouse cursor freezes for half a second or so, randomly and not linked to high RAM or CPU usage. I suspected it being a disk issue but even after changing my OS disk (upgraded my OS SSD, 256GB -> 500GB) it persists. It happens maybe twice a day. Haven't tried a fresh install though.
 

Online Jeroen3

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #137 on: December 02, 2019, 06:47:15 am »
Sounds like some driver spends too much time in an ISR.
 
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Offline dzseki

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #138 on: December 02, 2019, 06:48:25 am »
I'm experiencing a weird thing on my Win 10 (that didn't happened back when I had 7): Sometimes my mouse cursor freezes for half a second or so, randomly and not linked to high RAM or CPU usage. I suspected it being a disk issue but even after changing my OS disk (upgraded my OS SSD, 256GB -> 500GB) it persists. It happens maybe twice a day. Haven't tried a fresh install though.


Windows 10 can do funny things. On my laptop the scrolling does not work in EDGE, but everywhere else yes. :clap: This was a problem last time in Windows 95...
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #139 on: December 02, 2019, 03:48:48 pm »
I'm experiencing a weird thing on my Win 10 (that didn't happened back when I had 7): Sometimes my mouse cursor freezes for half a second or so, randomly and not linked to high RAM or CPU usage. I suspected it being a disk issue but even after changing my OS disk (upgraded my OS SSD, 256GB -> 500GB) it persists. It happens maybe twice a day. Haven't tried a fresh install though.

I have seen similar things in Win7.  In my case, it was a tray application that was misbehaving and blocking the whole PC intermittently.

Perhaps try stripping the system down by switching applications and services off one by one, until the problem stops - to identify the culprit.
 
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Online NorthGuy

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #140 on: December 02, 2019, 04:39:44 pm »
Perhaps try stripping the system down by switching applications and services off one by one, until the problem stops - to identify the culprit.

Cannot do it in Windows 10. Whatever you turn off, will automatically turn back on :)
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #141 on: December 02, 2019, 04:50:26 pm »
Perhaps try stripping the system down by switching applications and services off one by one, until the problem stops - to identify the culprit.

Cannot do it in Windows 10. Whatever you turn off, will automatically turn back on :)

A bit like a bad virus.
 ;D
 

Offline LeonR

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #142 on: December 03, 2019, 12:02:07 am »
Seems like disabling C-States did the trick. I suspected it was a power management thing because it happened mostly when switching applications. I already had High Performance as my default power plan. Power consumption seem pretty OK with just SpeedStep turned on, at least by the wattage and temp readings that CoreTemp/PPM Panel show. Temps are just 6ÂșC above ambient on idle/low usage.

Had LatencyMon running and it didn't find anything weird, aisde from the occasional higher usage from DirectX/nVidia kernel drivers. The latter topped at ~1ms and the first at ~300us.

For a "cleaner" system I used ShutUp10, by O&O Software. Just went with the default optimizations it suggests (that are already many). I just have the nVidia control panel outside Windows default stuff. I like my main desktop to be as clean as possible of resident software.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #143 on: December 03, 2019, 12:11:15 am »
^Winner, winner, chicken dinner!   8)
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #144 on: December 03, 2019, 12:47:10 am »
Windows Subsystem for Linux works great

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #145 on: December 03, 2019, 01:46:19 am »
WSL is useless when you already have Linux machines and if you really want Windows bare metal you can run a proper Linux distro in a VM rather than use the WSL hack.
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #146 on: December 03, 2019, 08:45:49 am »
WSL is useless when you already have Linux machines and if you really want Windows bare metal you can run a proper Linux distro in a VM rather than use the WSL hack.

why is it useless if you already have linux machines? what major thing can a "proper Linux distro in a VM" do the WSL can't?
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #147 on: December 03, 2019, 08:54:53 am »
Perhaps try stripping the system down by switching applications and services off one by one, until the problem stops - to identify the culprit.

Cannot do it in Windows 10. Whatever you turn off, will automatically turn back on :)

A bit like a bad virus.
 ;D

Also its now becoming ransomware, and own and take full control completely your PC, if its not constantly connected to the mother ship in Redmond.  >:D

 -> Windows 10 users fume: Microsoft, where's our 'local account' option gone?
 
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Online Black Phoenix

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #148 on: December 03, 2019, 02:33:27 pm »
Also its now becoming ransomware, and own and take full control completely your PC, if its not constantly connected to the mother ship in Redmond.  >:D

 -> Windows 10 users fume: Microsoft, where's our 'local account' option gone?

Keep putting nails in the coffin Microsoft. Go on, I dare you.  |O

Of course it was expected when they announced on the release of Windows 10 to be free to install for 1 year, including updates from cracked Windows 7/8/8.1 (specially the ones who used local VLK activation). When its free, then the product is the user.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 02:37:44 pm by Black Phoenix »
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Windows 7 vs Windows 10??
« Reply #149 on: December 03, 2019, 06:14:43 pm »
WSL is useless when you already have Linux machines and if you really want Windows bare metal you can run a proper Linux distro in a VM rather than use the WSL hack.

why is it useless if you already have linux machines? what major thing can a "proper Linux distro in a VM" do the WSL can't?

It's redundant, and it's a subset of Linux, a Linux distro in a VM is the real deal, you can have the entire graphical environment if you want, I've found no reason to want to run Linux software under Windows, Windows is the problem, the thing I've been working slowly to escape from for years.
 


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