Author Topic: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!  (Read 11025 times)

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Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

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"Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« on: July 26, 2019, 01:51:32 pm »
I'm not a Microsoft Conspiracy believer, (but who knows what really happens to your data), but this may
interest all 'Windows' users.  From Windows-7 onwards, there are MULTIPLE modules still running on your
systems, that were purportedly there to help you, & to improve automatic 'Feed-Back' to Microsoft, regarding
such things as Software Compatibility, Performance etc etc.  Their keyword was 'Telemetry'. (Warning bells!!).

That might be fine when Windows-7 just started, (and there-after), but they don't even SUPPORT older systems
now, let alone being interested in Monitoring/Improving older systems. But this Legacy remains.  Putting aside
privacy issues, this system software still chews up Resources, and slows things down. You may safely do this!!......

Run Windows "Task Scheduler", and open up the pane on the left to . . .
   Task Scheduler Library | Microsoft | Windows.
Take note of the Sub-Sections labeled . . .
   Application Experience
   Autochk
   Customer Experience Improvement.

Within EACH of those, Right-Click on each option, and select Disable.


They are NO longer needed, you will gain many megabytes of memory, and your system will be faster.
Have a nice day.
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Offline edavid

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019, 02:24:03 pm »
I suggest using the fine program "Autoruns" to turn off this kind of stuff:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/autoruns
 
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Offline gnif

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2019, 03:55:38 pm »
 :palm:

Locking this thread before it gets out of hand, this is well known about Microsoft and windows 7, this is not the place for such things.
Edit: on 2nd thought, this wont be locked but moved to the computing section.

https://www.howtogeek.com/428265/windows-7s-july-2019-security-patch-includes-telemetry/

That might be fine when Windows-7 just started, (and there-after), but they don't even SUPPORT older systems
now, let alone being interested in Monitoring/Improving older systems.

Actually you would be very wrong here, Microsoft are not just looking for issues witn Windows 7, but in software that runs on Windows 7, such as Microsoft Office and other third party applications. I know this from when I was working on Kodi (XBMC at the time), Microsoft approached the team and gave us access to crash dumps from Kodi to help improve the product under Windows. While I firmly agree that these services are overreaching in what they do, they do have their purpose. For a software developer, crash dumps are extremely useful, and since they are too complex to generate by the average user, the automation of this feature is extremely useful.

Further to that, Microsoft do still support Windows 7 for thousands of companies world wide that have support contracts. It is an EOL product, but that doesn't mean it's not still being maintained and supported. The guarantee of support is simply gone for those without support contracts (the general public).

IE: https://portal.msrc.microsoft.com/en-US/security-guidance/advisory/CVE-2019-0708
https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/4500705/customer-guidance-for-cve-2019-0708

Microsoft patched the 18 year old Windows XP this year, which is EOL.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 04:26:52 pm by gnif »
 

Offline rdl

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2019, 06:30:49 pm »
I prefer to go into Services and just disable the unnecessary stuff there. One of the first things I disable is Task Scheduler.
 

Online Halcyon

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2019, 12:21:22 am »
Windows telemetry has been known for a long time, it's not a secret. If you want to see exactly what is being sent, use Wireshark, otherwise, use a network-wide ad/malware blocker like pfblocker or pihole.
 
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Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2019, 11:52:15 am »
:palm:

Locking this thread before it gets out of hand, this is well known about Microsoft and windows 7, this is not the place for such things.
Edit: on 2nd thought, this wont be locked but moved to the computing section.

https://www.howtogeek.com/428265/windows-7s-july-2019-security-patch-includes-telemetry/

That might be fine when Windows-7 just started, (and there-after), but they don't even SUPPORT older systems
now, let alone being interested in Monitoring/Improving older systems.

Actually you would be very wrong here, Microsoft are not just looking for issues witn Windows 7, but in software that runs on Windows 7, such as Microsoft Office and other third party applications. I know this from when I was working on Kodi (XBMC at the time), Microsoft approached the team and gave us access to crash dumps from Kodi to help improve the product under Windows. While I firmly agree that these services are overreaching in what they do, they do have their purpose. For a software developer, crash dumps are extremely useful, and since they are too complex to generate by the average user, the automation of this feature is extremely useful.

Further to that, Microsoft do still support Windows 7 for thousands of companies world wide that have support contracts. It is an EOL product, but that doesn't mean it's not still being maintained and supported. The guarantee of support is simply gone for those without support contracts (the general public).

IE: https://portal.msrc.microsoft.com/en-US/security-guidance/advisory/CVE-2019-0708
https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/4500705/customer-guidance-for-cve-2019-0708

Microsoft patched the 18 year old Windows XP this year, which is EOL.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. (Re: your Face-Palm, Lock, Move, at the beginning)  :)
I don't profess to know anything like you, & some others, and I wasn't aware that such a 'post' would be so
pretentious or possibly trouble-invoking. I'm just a simple old man, addressing the multitude of 'Non-Windows
experts'.  (Support gone for the mere 'General Public' as you say. That's who 99.9% of 'us' are).

I'm aware that there is a multitude of software, to aid people in cutting back on 'resources', like my prior mentioned
"Task Scheduler", and running "services.msc", without having to download Apps like ProcessExplorer or AutoRuns.
I just wanted OTHERS to know that you can clean up Win-7 a lot, (with research), for basic systems.
Sorry.
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Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 
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Offline The Soulman

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2019, 12:19:05 pm »
Also found there that windows is running defragmentation once a week, disabled that to.
Although Intel SSD toolbox always reported that it already was disabled (for years..).  :-//

 
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Offline rdl

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2019, 01:07:27 pm »
Just curious, but which Windows? I've never had Windows 7 turn it on for an SSD. I remember a post from a Microsoft person saying that Win 7 would run a speed test during install and if it was above a certain threshold it would assume the drive was an SSD and not enable the weekly defrag.

Also found there that windows is running defragmentation once a week, disabled that to.
Although Intel SSD toolbox always reported that it already was disabled (for years..).  :-//
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2019, 01:46:13 pm »
I just checked my Task Scheduler and found that defragging was enabled...  (Win 7 with SSD)

This might happen if you had a magnetic drive originally, then upgraded to SSD? 

Now disabled!  thanks to OP for bringing this up.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 01:51:56 pm by SilverSolder »
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2019, 02:33:32 pm »
I just checked my Task Scheduler and found that defragging was enabled...  (Win 7 with SSD)

This might happen if you had a magnetic drive originally, then upgraded to SSD? 

That's quite possible. I have also upgraded Win 7 boxes from HDDs to SSDs but never noticed this because I actually always used a third-party defragging tool and disabled the integrated one.

I don't know how Windows is actually clever at detecting SSDs. What I do know is that most third-party defrag tools are. They can detect SSDs even without running any performance analysis.
 

Offline The Soulman

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2019, 03:07:01 pm »
This was a fresh install of w7 on this ssd in 2011, maybe a reinstall after that but can't remember..
Maybe I need a new one, in a couple of years.  ;D

Windows should/could have known when a hd is a ssd from the hardware id's.
One of the main reasons at that time for me to make the jump from xp to 7 was the support for ssd's (trim) in w7.
Before that I was having fun with intel robson memory modules, ah the memories...

 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2019, 03:45:52 pm »
Windows telemetry has been known for a long time, it's not a secret. If you want to see exactly what is being sent, use Wireshark, otherwise, use a network-wide ad/malware blocker like pfblocker or pihole.
It's trivial to uninstall the associated kbs, although Microsoft does have a habit of rereleasing them. I really don't know what it is with this forum and Windows. I'm not quite a fan but people seem to be hunting for trouble and have no qualms about creating it where there is none. Thread after thread of people whipped into a barely contained rage, usually the same group.
 

Online Halcyon

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2019, 02:02:34 am »
Windows telemetry has been known for a long time, it's not a secret. If you want to see exactly what is being sent, use Wireshark, otherwise, use a network-wide ad/malware blocker like pfblocker or pihole.
It's trivial to uninstall the associated kbs, although Microsoft does have a habit of rereleasing them. I really don't know what it is with this forum and Windows. I'm not quite a fan but people seem to be hunting for trouble and have no qualms about creating it where there is none. Thread after thread of people whipped into a barely contained rage, usually the same group.

I sort of don't blame them. Over the years, I've been accused of being a Windows "fan boy", but no more. Windows 10 was the last straw for me. It is truly terrible, among the worst OSs I have ever used. It took a lot for me to turn my back on Microsoft but I don't regret it. I'm not the only one either, I work with a fairly small group of people and I'd say about at least 25% have either entirely or partially ditched Windows at home in favour of one of the Linux flavours.

I've never heard anyone say "Windows 10 is fantastic". Most people I speak to either tolerate it or absolutely hate it.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 02:05:07 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2019, 06:17:54 am »
I've never heard anyone say "Windows 10 is fantastic". Most people I speak to either tolerate it or absolutely hate it.

I'm one of the ones who tolerated it. I use it mainly because I like photography and I'm really into Photoshop / Lightroom and using it for years I've didn't really found a good easy and powerful alternative to both apps.

I've been thinking a lot to simply go to Linux, Fedora specially because of had used Red Hat and CentOS in old projects I had but each and every time having to find alternatives to the programs I use make me return again to the Windows Ecosystem.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2019, 06:56:48 am »
I sort of don't blame them. Over the years, I've been accused of being a Windows "fan boy", but no more. Windows 10 was the last straw for me. It is truly terrible, among the worst OSs I have ever used. It took a lot for me to turn my back on Microsoft but I don't regret it. I'm not the only one either, I work with a fairly small group of people and I'd say about at least 25% have either entirely or partially ditched Windows at home in favour of one of the Linux flavours.

I've never heard anyone say "Windows 10 is fantastic". Most people I speak to either tolerate it or absolutely hate it.
People recognize Microsoft needed to fix the update system. It was causing issues in any kind of sizeable deployment. I don't really agree with the cloud and subscription direction they're going, but it's definitely where the market is going. If you eliminate that part, it's actually a rather good OS.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2019, 02:27:57 pm »
If you eliminate that part, it's actually a rather good OS.

Well, yes! But what really makes Win10 Win10 is all the additional crap that is the foundation of the current MS business model (cloud, loosy and forced rolling updates, telemetry and inconsistent UI due to all the Metro crap that doesn't really serve any useful purpose on the desktop, and anything else that is done in the background and not directly useful to the user).

The kernel, which is an improvement over the previous versions and was already pretty decent, is good. Many of the base services are good.
Obviously a stripped-down version of Win10 (with a cleaner GUI, but that's my own opinion there) would satisfy most of us. But I doubt it's ever going to be released. Not under the current management anyway...
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2019, 02:29:51 pm »
Well, yes! But what really makes Win10 Win10 is all the additional crap that is the foundation of the current MS business model (cloud, loosy and forced rolling updates, telemetry and inconsistent UI due to all the Metro crap that doesn't really serve any useful purpose on the desktop, and anything else that is done in the background and not directly useful to the user).

The kernel, which is an improvement over the previous versions and was already pretty decent, is good. Many of the base services are good.
Obviously a stripped-down version of Win10 (with a cleaner GUI, but that's my own opinion there) would satisfy most of us. But I doubt it's ever going to be released. Not under the current management anyway...
Judging by the piles of money the new course is making shareholders, I wouldn't hold my breath for new management with significantly different views.
 

Offline pix3l

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2019, 02:36:34 pm »
For win10 there is a tool called shutup10 which disables telemetry and some other annoyances
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2019, 04:09:56 pm »
For win10 there is a tool called shutup10 which disables telemetry and some other annoyances
Commonly available versions don't allow turning telemetry fully off. You need "specialist" versions like Enterprise or Education.
 

Offline soldar

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2019, 07:05:47 pm »
If you eliminate that part, it's actually a rather good OS.

Reminds me of "Other than that how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?" :)
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2019, 09:41:17 am »
Reminds me of "Other than that how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?" :)
The difference being that it can still be polished up. You need to know what you're doing and it's tiring that you have to do it but at this point it's very doable.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2019, 02:27:26 pm »
They just need to get rid of the "It's our computer now, not yours" attitude.

Right or wrong thing to do should be my decision only.

No updates if I want no updates.
No telemetry if I want no telemetry.
No software other than what is the minimal needed to function as an operating system. If I don't want any other Microsoft bloatware then allow me to refuse it during install, or to remove it completely afterward.

That's all I ask.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2019, 03:02:27 pm »
As a couple of us already said, they unfortunately do not NEED to do that to be successful at the moment, so they just won't.

 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2019, 03:04:35 pm »
They just need to get rid of the "It's our computer now, not yours" attitude.

Right or wrong thing to do should be my decision only.

No updates if I want no updates.
No telemetry if I want no telemetry.
No software other than what is the minimal needed to function as an operating system. If I don't want any other Microsoft bloatware then allow me to refuse it during install, or to remove it completely afterward.

That's all I ask.
That's 2019 for you. Everything is a service and less and less is owned. Considering many companies have been struggling and now found a course that's making them momey you definitely shouldn't expect it to change.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2019, 03:05:26 pm »
As a couple of us already said, they unfortunately do not NEED to do that to be successful at the moment, so they just won't.
Quite the contrary, it's bringing them success. Not enough people are seeing the long term consequences and are voting with their feet.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2019, 03:14:16 pm »
Everything is a service and less and less is owned. Considering many companies have been struggling and now found a course that's making them momey you definitely shouldn't expect it to change.

Yes. Already talked about that, but to me this trend looks like we would tend towards the reduction, and maybe over time even to the abolition of private property. Looks like a natural long-term consequence of owning less and less stuff you use.

And funnily enough, what seems to have triggered this trend, excessive capitalism, may thus eventually yield a result that once was the enemy of capitalism.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2019, 04:30:11 pm »
We are going back to the days where people used to rent colour television sets, because they were too expensive for the average family to buy...   while the days of shrink wrapped software are disappearing.

It is definitely possible to put a business case together for "renting" or subscribing to software rather than buying,  just like it can make sense to rent or lease rather than buy a car...   but it seems that software companies prefer not to give us the option to buy without a fight.

 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2019, 04:33:40 pm »
It's easier to control what people can and cannot do with your product if people don't own it.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2019, 04:59:31 pm »
I just checked my Task Scheduler and found that defragging was enabled...  (Win 7 with SSD)

This might happen if you had a magnetic drive originally, then upgraded to SSD? 

Now disabled!  thanks to OP for bringing this up.
It being enabled as such in task scheduler does not mean it will actually run on particular drive or any of drives at all.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 05:06:40 pm by wraper »
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2019, 05:18:01 pm »
It's easier to control what people can and cannot do with your product if people don't own it.

Of course. Ownership is not just an abstract notion to make you feel good about yourself and what you possess (which is often what you are being told when people want to convince you that renting is just as good). It has obvious legal consequences. The owner decides unilaterally what you can and cannot do with the product. Your only freedom, if you don't agree with the terms, is to stop using it. Not exactly what I call freedom.
 
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Offline wraper

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2019, 05:28:32 pm »
It's easier to control what people can and cannot do with your product if people don't own it.

Of course. Ownership is not just an abstract notion to make you feel good about yourself and what you possess (which is often what you are being told when people want to convince you that renting is just as good). It has obvious legal consequences. The owner decides unilaterally what you can and cannot do with the product. Your only freedom, if you don't agree with the terms, is to stop using it. Not exactly what I call freedom.
You don't own any software you buy. Be it one time cost, subscription, whatever. Fully offline thing or based on cloud.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2019, 05:49:02 pm »
You don't own any software you buy. Be it one time cost, subscription, whatever. Fully offline thing or based on cloud.
That's the official line of those with interests, but legal reality shows it's not that clear-cut. EU courts have decided differently and First Sale doctrine in the US suggests otherwise too, although US companies have so far carefully avoided testing this in court. They can't bully people into submission when courts have explicitly decided otherwise. Not being allowed to reproduce a work isn't the same as not being allowed to modify it when you own a copy. The EU court ruling also makes it obvious there's a massive difference between the value of the traditional "selling copies" model and the subscription model companies are now transitioning to. There's a huge difference in value of what's in the books and companies have been trying to empty our pockets without us noticing by switching one for the other and pretending it's the same.

https://www.publicknowledge.org/news-blog/blogs/eu-court-when-you-buy-software-you-own-it
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2019, 08:51:29 pm »
Absolutely.

Besides, those were general considerations regarding ownership vs rental. It's easier to understand with material goods. For instance, it's very easy to understand the difference between renting and owning a car. When you own it, as long as it still works and as long as the government hasn't decided it contained something that made it illegal (such as safety or pollution criterions), you can drive it. The manufacturer can't decide at any point on its own that you can't drive it anymore. If you rent it, it absolutely can. A rental agreement may contain a minimum period of guaranteed service, but it's usually always limited. You get the idea.

Software is a bit of a different beast. It's immaterial. Ownership is much less obvious to understand.

There's of course the question of the right to reproduce it as Mr. Scram mentioned.
But that's not the only thing. With software, when you buy a license, what you "own" is the right to use it. The traditional sales model is that once you buy a license of some software, you have a right to use it according to the EULA for as long as you can run it on working hardware. Sure you may only get future updates/fixes for a limited amount of time, and/or for an additional cost, but you're still allowed to run the software you bought forever as long as you can make it run. Some people use very old software this way on either old machines or virtual machines.

With a subscription model, this is absolutely not the case. The company may decide to change the rules completely every time you have to renew your subscription. You may not be able to use the software any more even when you're willing to shell out the cash. It may stop working altogether if the company goes bankrupt as the software may require constant or at least regular access to their servers to still function. This is a huge difference, and so in that aspect, it's not that different from owning something material.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2019, 10:10:32 pm »
Break the cat and went full Linux a few months ago, almost a year now.  No regrets.  With time, the no regrets turned into poor joy.  Since then, can only smile at these kind of annoyances described here.

Was quite a struggle at first, not any more.  The only thing I still regret now is why I didn't do that 5 or 10 years ago.   ^-^

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2019, 03:03:31 am »

If you have wide and deep experience with Windows and non trivial Windows based applications, it is a daunting task to give it all up and start over on Linux and/or Apple. These alternatives are probably best seen additional tools for the toolbox rather than a replacement in such cases.
 

Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2019, 11:05:41 am »
All good points...  Though I also hate Win-10. Just keeping it simple. . . . . . .

Yes, the 'drive' these days is towards 'Cloud-Based' software, & Online 'Browser-Based' software.
I HATE both of those, although I understand how the 'cloud' may help, across multiple devices.
And I also hate the (default!) crappy looking block shaped graphics of it's main screen interface.

To ME, their main reasons for all that is this...   I think their main push is to get away from the traditional
PC as we know it, and gear everything towards Touch Screen Tablets, and the like.  (So common now).
And to run the majority of software on them, like 'Dumb Terminals' used to be. And they favor the crappy
screen usage, to facilitate easy 'finger' operation of the devices. Although my latest 'laptop' is touch-
sensitive, and can fold down like a Tablet, if required, when at home or at a desk, I want to use my
MOUSE!!, and linked to a Graphics Pad/Pen if/when required. I just don't want/need this change!

I guess some people with old 'Brick' phones, or the cheap early 'Nokia's, scoffed at the need for todays
'Smart-Phones', although today, virtually NO-ONE is without one !!, and knows their power.
However, I still don't trust them, with what they are really doing "under the bonnet". ('Hood', haha...)
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Online Halcyon

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2019, 12:43:03 pm »
Break the cat and went full Linux a few months ago, almost a year now.  No regrets.  With time, the no regrets turned into poor joy.  Since then, can only smile at these kind of annoyances described here.

Was quite a struggle at first, not any more.  The only thing I still regret now is why I didn't do that 5 or 10 years ago.   ^-^

You exactly describe my experience.


If you have wide and deep experience with Windows and non trivial Windows based applications, it is a daunting task to give it all up and start over on Linux and/or Apple. These alternatives are probably best seen additional tools for the toolbox rather than a replacement in such cases.

I have to disagree. Prior to about a few years ago, I *only* knew Windows. I have used just about every Windows and MS-DOS version there is. I grew up learning Windows networking, NT, Active Directory etc... I don't miss any of it.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 12:46:21 pm by Halcyon »
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2019, 01:03:33 pm »
By the way Halcyon, what distro you are using, what distros you tried and for what you are using (description of the use).

I'm saying that because I'm also probably in the move to Linux soon but the only that I get comfortable is the RPM ones (RedHat Based CentOS and Fedora Workstation).
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2019, 06:20:12 pm »
Prior to about a few years ago, I *only* knew Windows. [...] I don't miss any of it.

That is a judgement call that each of us has to make.

When your Windows Apps directory has more than 500 items, collected and learned over 30 years, representing an investment of years of labor (finding, learning, and overcoming the inevitable limitations of a library of applications)....    the cost of giving all that up is very large, and very real.

 

Online Halcyon

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2019, 01:03:27 am »
By the way Halcyon, what distro you are using, what distros you tried and for what you are using (description of the use).

Currently, I run Fedora Workstation on my main desktop and both FreeBSD and Ubuntu Server on some of my servers.

For workstation use, I have previously tried Mint, Ubuntu Desktop and CentOS.

Prior to about a few years ago, I *only* knew Windows. [...] I don't miss any of it.

That is a judgement call that each of us has to make.

When your Windows Apps directory has more than 500 items, collected and learned over 30 years, representing an investment of years of labor (finding, learning, and overcoming the inevitable limitations of a library of applications)....    the cost of giving all that up is very large, and very real.

Absolutely, but don't forget, much of it runs on Linux, either via something like WINE or you have genuine Linux versions of the same software.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 01:05:35 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2019, 11:15:22 am »
"It runs via WINE" sounds like replacing one problem with another, especially when you take the more complex software suites into account.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2019, 04:51:22 pm »
Prior to about a few years ago, I *only* knew Windows. [...] I don't miss any of it.

That is a judgement call that each of us has to make.

When your Windows Apps directory has more than 500 items, collected and learned over 30 years, representing an investment of years of labor (finding, learning, and overcoming the inevitable limitations of a library of applications)....    the cost of giving all that up is very large, and very real.
That is true but you can run these applications just fine in a VM running Windows. And the best part is that when (not if) Windows starts to act up you can roll the VM back to a last-known-good snapshot and get Windows to behave in a matter of seconds. That is a win-win.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2019, 09:54:17 pm »
[...] you can run these applications just fine in a VM running Windows. [...]

That is absolutely true and I already do that.  However;  I have noticed that some graphics intensive applications are not completely happy inside a VM (in this case, VirtualBox).

I can definitely envision switching to Linux as the host operating system if Windows 10 fails on too many fronts.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2019, 12:19:01 am »
Not wanting to deal with Windows so now dealing with Windows, Linux and virtualisation doesn't sound like an improvement either. Even when taking rollback into account, which can be kind of done in other ways.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2019, 02:21:41 am »

Virtualization has all kinds of use cases so is something you should know how to do anyway.

As Microsoft, Apple, Google get ever more cloud based, perhaps Linux will one day be the only remaining truly  "local" possibility?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2019, 03:44:19 am »
Virtualization has all kinds of use cases so is something you should know how to do anyway.

As Microsoft, Apple, Google get ever more cloud based, perhaps Linux will one day be the only remaining truly  "local" possibility?
Doing it isn't the problem. Complicating matters in an attemp to uncomplicate them is. Virtualisation or  compatibility layers aren't rocket science, but they add layers of complexity and hassle. Dealing with Windows' peculiarities isn't really more complicated.
 

Offline TheNewLab

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2019, 05:44:21 am »
So many good points here, where do I start?

Maybe what I am doing. I started using Linux in 2012. Did not stop using MaCOSX.  added windows 7 for Electronics apps;. (some work great with WINE, others do not) The guy at CupofLinux says he can get anything to work on WINE. 
Which version of Linux. That is your decision. There are 3 major base directions, then a mass of specific choices occur down-line. Live CD/DVDs are a great place to try out different flavors (distros). About all can be installed on a thumb drive and tried out. Have used an Linux OS on a thumb drive for easy access to any computer I run into and work on.

Now, Linux is not the end all, be all. As I said, I still use MacOSX, and windows. using WINE and VM, I use Oracle's version..no reason why.
I understand,  not wanting to learn new apps, and finding replacements.
 I have no time for even the constant upgrading and learning the constant changes. learning costs time, costs money..SO, I have "locked" or frozen" a number OS's. the machines are set up with everything I use, and all their settings. I then use Linux to go online...thus up-to-date and current security updates. Run a Linux distro in VM, then you have the best of both worlds.

Too long here..
I think that today it does not matter so much. If you have been running Photoshop on Windows for 30 years and don't want to change. No problem. "freeze" that OS with all the apps, and settings and Linux for online, and any new uses you may have. (I also run Linux and Win/Apple on separate Drives or partitions. I may have to reboot in these instances but some cases it is worth the hassle.

One thing that really, really irritates me,  Having to redo the user dictionary in word applications. another reason I do what I do.
There are so many new features on established applications, as they grow and expend, that I just do not need.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: "Windows Experience" KILL !!!
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2019, 06:53:21 pm »

Doing it [virtualization] isn't the problem. Complicating matters in an attemp to uncomplicate them is. Virtualisation or  compatibility layers aren't rocket science, but they add layers of complexity and hassle. Dealing with Windows' peculiarities isn't really more complicated.

Totally agree.  Virtualization is a good solution for many use cases,  but if none of those use cases apply to you, then you shouldn't use it.

One such use case is running obsolete OS instances for whatever reason (not all reasons for doing that are bad). 

The "correct" solution to many problems turns out to be quite dependent on the circumstances/environment, as the evolution of life itself shows.
 


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