REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon

[rf-loop]

battery nominal capacity is 8000mAh.

If it is 10mA it means around 800 hour. (littlebit over one month)

Thank you rf-loop for your info,
do you know also what happens when battery is low?
I suppose there is some low voltage protection in intrument and/or battery management circuit.
Does this trip at a "safe" voltage?
If not one should be adviced to remove the battery when the instrument is not used for long,
or recharge periodically.
Fabio.

P.S. All this to me seem bad design.

There may be some idea with this small current for keeping some control circuit alive. But first this current can be lot of less is designer really care about minimize this current.  In design it need take care also that what ever time mains voltage can randomly vary what ever value between 0 - 240Vac (yes and it works also with DC mains )  Not all have our standards with electric powerlines. These equipments sold also to area where is not any kind of good powergrid at all.  Batt circuits control need always keep in order.

I do not know what is this battery self discharge. 10% ?   20% ? or what in month.
All batteries need human care.  If people take some NiMh ... oh keep alone and  after one month...  nearly as empty.
-------

This Owon battery module have also build in low voltage shut off control circuit .

If battery is discharged there is control what disconnect output. (shut off output direction).
In this state it  can not measure battery voltage at all. This locked state need first open. It can do with short charging phase. After short time charge it status is normal and it connect also current direction to out. After then it can agen discharge.

If leave nearly "locked" but still "output on" battery on the table for some weeks it self discharge and also then it shut off terminals BUT of course self discharging continue.

If battery is in "closed" state there is still some amount of electric inside cells.

It still continue slowly this self discharge and later also it go down to unsafe level.
So do not store  empty battery very long time. Temperature speeds up this self discharge. If need store long time rkeep them in low temperature (if possible).
Lithium batteries need "human care".  It is not just Owon, it is common to all Lithium batteries (rechargeable)

This selfdischarge speed depends battery technology (chemistry and construction), temperature etc.
I do not know what is this special battery selfdischarge.

It may be  something like 5 - 20% per month... just quess..

[muvideo]

I do not know what is this battery self discharge. 10% ?   20% ? or what in month.

If it's a at least decent I hope few % per month

All batteries need human care.  If people take some NiMh ... oh keep alone and  after one month...  nearly as empty.

The difference is that a Zero-Volt NiMh recharges normally, a zero-volt Lithium is a dead one, also if it recharges back,
it's probably damaged. As a side note, apart the low discharge ones, I hated the NiMh because of the huge self discharge,
and worse the fact that cells from the same manufacturer and different lots had totally different self discharge rates.

If leave nearly "locked" but still "output on" battery on the table for some weeks it self discharge and also then it shut off terminals BUT of course self discharging continue.

If battery is in "closed" state there is still some amount of electric inside cells.

It still continue slowly this self discharge and later also it go down to unsafe level.

This is the reason I asked the voltage level and that for me there is bad design.
There is battery self discharge that should be equivalent to fraction of a mA or less,
than there is the safety circuit that should draw some uA. Bringing the battery
to very low levels in a month and after wait that the rest do the discharge job is dangerous,
and probably it should be not much difficult to make better, but we should see
the circuit to understand if it's an error or the price of low cost equipment.

[rf-loop]

This is the reason I asked the voltage level and that for me there is bad design.
There is battery self discharge that should be equivalent to fraction of a mA or less,
than there is the safety circuit that should draw some uA. Bringing the battery
to very low levels in a month and after wait that the rest do the discharge job is dangerous,
and probably it should be not much difficult to make better, but we should see
the circuit to understand if it's an error or the price of low cost equipment.

Im now not sure did I explain something wrong with littlebit poor english.

"There is battery self discharge that should be equivalent to fraction of a mA or less,
than there is the safety circuit that should draw some uA."

This is inside Owon battery module.
Normal Lithium cell self discharge and very small safety circuit current draw.
Safety circuit control battery voltage on after reach low limit it shut off battery output.

When battery is installed in ocilloscope it is connected to Oscilloscope power supply. There in power supply circuit it keeps some control circuit also then alive and THIS is this extra draw current what discharge battery more than nessessary if designed really for this purpose. maybe there was thinked some safety things in some mains powerline situation but still this needes current is in my opinion much more than nessessary. 1mA - even 2mA I understand but 7 - 10mA is just from design where designer think "who cares" scope is on the table and connected mostly to mains. If not, battery go empty in one month but if this happend battery moule safety circuit stop deep discharging. And In china thee is not 1 month holidays.

Also it can design littlebit different and my opinonis that there do not need drav any current from battery if scope is off.

I littlebit think that this power unit is not originally designed at all to this SDS model. Maybe it is just quickly modified to use it in this model.

But who can keep normally his tool out from mains power more than week or two? And in this case then need full battery power withiut posibility to charge.

But this 7-10mA discharging always, it is still not nice and specially becouse there is not real reason.. not even remote control what need be stand by powered. (look this "magick eye window" under display)

[aghp]

Hi there, some news about firmware updates. OWON did not make the firmware available on their homepage, but now they provided my official dealer with download links to serial number dependent patches. These links are at a share hoster! Curious. Unfortunately I only found  patches for SDS6062 and SDS7102 but not for SDS8102, so I'm waiting again for the right link. The rar archives are about 100MB big, if someone is interrested...

edit: link deleted because of copyright   

The Firmwareversion is 2.7.1

2.7.1 for what model?

-------------
This have been officially confirmed by Owon headquarters today (13.FEB.2012):

1. FW version 2.7.1 is for SDS6062
2. Latest official FW version for "new improved HW version" SDS7102V  is 2.5.1
(There is not this FW level yet available for older SDS7102 models )

--------------

So, peoples, please. To avoid confusion, any reports on new FW versions, please tell also exactly what model you are talking.

- aghp

[blueflash]

Thats correct AGHP, and today I received my FW Update for the model SDS8102 from 28s week 2011 delivered with FW2.0 as Patch for my serial number. The new FW version which is displayed is 2.4.0
It brings the onscreen keyboard and a really working pulsewidth trigger. The copy button still does not work as expected. All in all not so bad I think.

[aghp]

It now on the air.

Public FW update!

Here we go:

Go to THIS Owon side in HK.
Warning: There is bad bug in SDS7102 update to V 2.5.1!
(Default freezes scope and only way to out is power off. Also after this it do not set default)

Select Download
Select Software Upgrading
(Note: this time it seems that there is something wrong in downloadable or some other dowload integrity problem in this sds.rar  file or there is something missing?)

Later I will upload it to other place for download more fast and reliable.

-aghp

BTW  these Programmable Power Supplies and Arbitrary Function Generators are not yet ready -  status is somethink like: "coming soon - we hope"

[0xdeadbeef]

This is somewhat crazy. My SDS8102 from week 28 of 2011 is excluded from this list. The download I just got from my dealer contains a MSO8202TD_OS_V3.0.5.1.bin dated 1/2011 and a (renamed) ZIP called bundles (-> the actual firmware archive) from 10th of February containing the following files:

    tx
    help
    me
    os

... all dated 10th of February...

The update went without issues, but the scope didn't reboot again just like after the 1st update I did last year (which however I was told is kinda normal).
The funny thing is, that although the help files were obviously updated this time, the scope now shows v1.1, while it showed 1.0 before (which also was wrong, as the firmware was already updated once before).
Then again, the file name dialog is there now, so this seems to be the newest version.

[aghp]

This is somewhat crazy. My SDS8102 from week 28 of 2011 is excluded from this list. The download I just got from my dealer contains a MSO8202TD_OS_V3.0.5.1.bin dated 1/2011 and a (renamed) ZIP called bundles (-> the actual firmware archive) from 10th of February containing the following files:

    tx
    help
    me
    os

... all dated 10th of February...

The update went without issues, but the scope didn't reboot again just like after the 1st update I did last year (which however I was told is kinda normal).
The funny thing is, that although the help files were obviously updated this time, the scope now shows v1.1, while it showed 1.0 before (which also was wrong, as the firmware was already updated once before).
Then again, the file name dialog is there now, so this seems to be the newest version.

I think SDS8102   you have is old version HW. (..28..)

For SDS7102 I can see that all serials included in list are these new improved models.
Owon tell that update for these older SDS7102 units are not yet ready. Maybe it is also same for older SDS8xxx
I do not know this SDS8xxx becouse it is not here stock model.


-aghp

[0xdeadbeef]

Yeah, sure my model seems to be a little older. But it's just one week older compared to that of blueflash and still his displays 2.4.0 after the update while mine displays v1.1 although we probably got the same software. I understood that the 1st update last October or so didn't include the text file for the "about" dialog, but now the text files were updated and I still got a nonsense version number.

It's somehow not very reassuring that the same people who are supposed to fix bugs in the scope's software are unable to handle something as simple as a sensible HW/SW revision display. Not to speak of that crappy pseudo-security concept were they pretend that the SW is encrypted for the serial number, but it's just encrypted with some dummy private key and they deliver you the public key (in a file named "public.key") to decrypt the firmware on the PC before it's event sent to the scope.
If this is their security concept to protect themselves against cloners, then they should have asked someone with at least a basic understanding of encryption.

[aghp]

This is somewhat crazy. My SDS8102 from week 28 of 2011 is excluded from this list. The download I just got from my dealer contains a MSO8202TD_OS_V3.0.5.1.bin dated 1/2011 and a (renamed) ZIP called bundles (-> the actual firmware archive) from 10th of February containing the following files:

    tx
    help
    me
    os

... all dated 10th of February...

The update went without issues, but the scope didn't reboot again just like after the 1st update I did last year (which however I was told is kinda normal).
The funny thing is, that although the help files were obviously updated this time, the scope now shows v1.1, while it showed 1.0 before (which also was wrong, as the firmware was already updated once before).
Then again, the file name dialog is there now, so this seems to be the newest version.

Sorry but I do not understand what model you are exactly talking and what model version numbers you are talking.
(becouse this MSO8xxx is also there. What is relation with this MSO thing together with SDS talking?
If you get SDS FW update from your dealer and then you tell there is MSO8xxx -- then in feel there is  someting wrong.


I have seen SDS8102 and SDS8202 but I have never seen Vx.x version but all what I have seen is Vx.x.x

So, my recommendation is: take contact directly to Owon service  and ask. Tell your SDS exactly model number and serial number and "about" diplay version, exactly, and ask what is ok FW version for your oscilloscope.

-aghp

[0xdeadbeef]

Sorry but I do not understand what model you are exactly talking and what model version numbers you are talking.
(becouse this MSO8xxx is also there. What is relation with this MSO thing together with SDS talking?

Well, I clearly stated what scope I have. And how should I know why Owon provides me with patches that also contains MSO bin files? Probably because they lost the overview what has to be bundled in the patch.

If you get SDS FW update from your dealer and then you tell there is MSO8xxx -- then in feel there is  someting wrong.

I got the first patch from Owon directly and it was the same, so it's a little unprofessional, but not a functional problem. As I said, the update was ok.

I have seen SDS8102 and SDS8202 but I have never seen Vx.x version but all what I have seen is Vx.x.x

Well, seeing is believing they say, and still my scope was delivered as v1.0, kept this fancy version number after the first update and now went up to v1.1 with a complete new update which includes new features (keypad) and bug fixes (e.g. FFT bug).

So, my recommendation is: take contact directly to Owon service  and ask. Tell your SDS exactly model number and serial number and "about" diplay version, exactly, and ask what is ok FW version for your oscilloscope.

Apart from the fact that Owon service is not extremely responsive, they confirmed after the first update that the version number is not reliable and not (always) updated by the firmware update. Well, they don't really seem to care much about stuff like a sensible version system.

[king2]

It now on the air.
Public FW update!

Select Download
Select Software Upgrading

Later I will upload it to other place for download more fast and reliable.

Hello! I have tried to download FW update for my SD8202, but failed. I can see only links to blank page (and no links inside HTML, I have checked) on "software upgrading" page, and no links to the files. May be, files have been removed, may be something else.. Can you publish (preferred so anyone can use) or send to me fresh 8202 FW?

I have tried also register my DSO, but it displays alert with "thank you, you will get a gift" and display register form again. Strange, but it does not ask me for a email, so I have no idea what this site will do woth my name and serial number of my DSO. They cannot even write me a email, because they do not knows my email.

Thank you in advance!

p.s. As I can see, OWON can do the best of hardware, but definitely have problems with software, embedded or not. I sure (my opinion based on SDS8202 GUI), that FW was written not by a humans (because GUI is suitable only for species, that has big hand with L-type oriented fingers, and small micro-hand on it - for little encoder on upper right).

[tinhead]

Hello! I have tried to download FW update for my SD8202, but failed.

it seems they hav a plan look better now sure links (not yet) working but at least
splitted to models/versions.

[king2]

Hello! I have tried to download FW update for my SD8202, but failed.

it seems they hav a plan look better now sure links (not yet) working but at least
splitted to models/versions.

Can you download FW for SDS8202?

I cannot, theese links goes to nothing. When I try to download from http://www.owon.com.hk/down-en.asp - only links for downloading Windows software working. FW links open empty window.

May be OWON allows to download FW from some countries only?

[tinhead]

no i can't and this is what i said - they updating their website right now!
Two days ago it was a single setup file (from a download size it does not matter really),
now there are prepared sections per model - which is good.
So just give them a day or two ...

[aghp]

AFAIK, FW update sharing is stopped due to problem (serious class unexpected bug) in least one model FW.
Owon examine and correct the problem and when it is finished it will be available. At the same time, they split the model-specific parts.

Patience. It needs that time what it takes.

-aghp

[aghp]

Note:
01.03.2012: Please do NOT use this link anymore. There is new update package available. Update version is still same. New include also update for older HW versions.

I will add soon updated package for new share. Just after I first check littlebit it.
If you want, it can now find Owon official webside but owon used download server is very slow and connection breaks frequently.

But I do not delete this downloadable so you can use it if you really want and can not wait day or two.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Original message:

  Update (SDS7102  FW V2.5.1) is now available also here.
It is now repaired and "default" bug repaired.

Look carefully your serial number is listed! DO NOT try use for any other serials.
(we hopa later it is available also for older HW units (maybe with different version number??? but with Owon words: later)




-aghp

[aghp]

FW V2.5.1

Samplerate in "scan" mode is now lot of better.

Now it is same as normal and single shot mode. (as long as captured data is handled by oscilloscope itself.  Scan mode save to USB or to PC is highly reduced.)

Here attached new samplerate vs memory table. Easy to see what means full speed 10M capture memory.

If someone find significant mistake in table, please tell it with email or PM. I want correct it.

-aghp

------------------------------
27.02.2011 Attachment deleted. It include error. New corrected picture later.

-aghp

[tinhead]

when you find time measure the wfrm/s with 1k/10k (i assume 10M will be still the same)
and the latest firmware, could be interessting to see if Owon changed something.

[rf-loop]

when you find time measure the wfrm/s with 1k/10k (i assume 10M will be still the same)
and the latest firmware, could be interessting to see if Owon changed something.

No markable difference from 1k to 10M memory.

Maximum is around 38 displayed visible  separate captures on the TFT  in one second.
(also trig out show same number)
(measured without accuracy, with one Fuji F200EXR  1 second shutter speed.)
This method proofs also that they really are separate drawed to TFT and visible)

Signal was 2,1MHz sinewave sweeped (slowly <1Hz) 6,3kHz deviation. Displayed position far away from trig position.
Shutter open 1s and then counted how many separate captures find in picture.

Later I use different signal generation so I can get better picture.
Also I will littlebit adjust enviroment so that better can use 1 or 2 second shutter speed.

Picture method is good becouse it do not forgive anything and it is not "imagination" with semi theoretical calculus. It is real seen on the TFT.

persistence, measurements and side menu off.
these all reduce this maximum number. Example persistence drops it nearly half.
So , some kind of maximum together with persistence is around 20 drawed displayed captures per second on the screen. Including full 10M. 

Tested with one channel in use.

---------------------------------------------------------
Update, now get just one short quick tiny test.


Picture is terrible  - horrible including also signal but only meaning is count how many captures displayed in second, thats all. With pocket camera shutter speed 1 second and also enviroment lights not best possible, then also ISO3200 becouse want small f

Here littlebit different signal so that counting is more easy.
Whus just this signal and so on. Just becouse it was fastest find with equipments availabe for use so that no need disassemble some special other test systems - configurations (setting system  back agen may be one day work, so... it want not do without really heavy reason).

Signal is continuously sweeping so that in picture left it first go littlebit left, then full trawel to right, then folded back more than half screen. (so it looks "random" timing.) This is becouse my slow ramp gen is other place.

Edit: This is perhaps not whole explanation. (Now, with new knowledge I think it was under 1s sweep period but... not so much faster. It is also possible there may occur  faster trig and capture periods but they can not rise continuous capture  rate and it stay around </= 38wfrm/s


Signal is sine. 1.5MHz. Level is so high that it go lot of over. So line is nearly vertical.  This 1.5MHz sine deviate +-9kHz (no any reason) then adjusted trigger so much time offset that this deviation in rising edge of sine fills nearly whole screen (time axis).

Camera is set for 1s shutter speed. Horizontally picture is nearly whole screen, vertically cut becouse some backlights due to 1second shutter speed.
Trig out counting also show around 38Hz and there is around 38 waveforms visible on the TFT in this 1s time.
This around 38 is maximum for this scope with 1k to 10 Mega samples memory. .

Menu on, persistence on, mesurements on, they all affect reducing speed.

[rf-loop]

Others same but signal and sweep different so that more easy picture. Only one direction moving signal rising edges (slow DC FM with HP3314B+HP8644B)
(total deviation was around 12kHz for 1.5MHz signal. Position in signal is far away (17us = 850div) from trigger point so that frequency deviation (rising edge position) is enough, around 10div total for easy take picture.  (shutter time 1s)

Modulating signal (slow ramp) is not extremely pure, so also it may affect that freq sweep is not very accurate and it is visible so that these lines are not just exactly positioned, noise in FM DC mod level make here "time noise". Of course also some time errors come from trigger jitter and also other reasons.
It have done 38 full 10Mbyte capture in one second with used settings.

Horizontal speed is 20ns/div. 20 sample per div. Full one waveform (capture) lenght is 500000div.

One capture time is 10 000 000ns  = 10ms.
Total time 1000ms
capture time 380ms
total blind time 620ms
of course if look visible part of signal this is terrible if compare to some fast realtime DPO like R&S etc.
visible to human eye is 15div, it is 300ns.
in one second 38pcs 300ns .. 11400ns.

Total time 1000ms
capture time visible to eye 0.0114ms.
blind time for human eye 999.9886

Blind/visible time ratios change dramatically if go to slower horizontal speeds becouse then more and more big part of whole memory is on the display. Example 10M memory and 500us/div it still use 1GSa/s but displayed is 15div from total 20div.
But also capturing speed drops to around 10.
20div 500us/div  it means around 10ms capture time.
capture time 10ms, 100ms captured and there 75ms visible by eyes in  1000ms period.

But what happend in this case if drop memory.
1M and 50us/div. And capture lenght 20div and visible 15div. 1GSa/s used.
Now capture speed is 30.
Capture time 1ms, 30ms captured and there is 22ms visible by eyes in 1000ms period.

Here I did not try find any optimal visible time ratio or total blind time ratio.
It need some lot of tests if try find what is optimum memory, speed etc for signal what is looking and what try find.




 

[king2]

Hello!

I have SDS8202 version w/o VGA, and as I can see, I need to solder only U9 and VGA connector, all others chips are soldered.

So can anybody post here pictures of PCB around VGA area, from both sides, any SDS scope with new HW?
What is U9 (near VGA connector)?
What is U63 (big chup between cross-pcb IDC connector and lithium battery)?

Thanks in advance!

[aghp]

Here new corrected samplerate table:

Sorry about mistake. SDS7102  do not have 1ns/div. Table was made using SDS8xxx  table.

Agen, if someone find some serious mistake,  please inform PM or email.






.


-aghp

[kkawula]

Hi, I have just bought SDS7102 with serial number SDS71021149xxx. I checked it like describe rf-loop.  I did default, and I had wait 30min. After that I did self calibration and I turned it off and on.

Image1: 50 ohm terminators have been applied to CH1 and CH2, acquire have been set to peak detection mode,  memory 10k, time base 10ms/div, CH1 and CH2  x1, 2mVac,

Image2: 50 ohm terminators have been applied to CH1 and CH2, acquire have been set to sample mode with persistence set to 2s,  memory 10k, time base 10us/div, CH1 and CH2  x1, 2mVac,

From Image1 and 2 we can see clearly that my unit have problems.... but when I left BNC sockets open (without terminators .. see Image3) the both channels were the same?? Terminator should eliminate external noises, isn’t it? But when i put them, the CH2 left without changes but CH1 started to show waveforms like Image 1. Can anybody explain my why is that? I’m going to send it back to service and I’m pretty sure that they will checked it without using terminators.

[Kernel SegFault]

Hello all. I have a question for anyone else who has an Owon SDS 7102. In XY display mode does inverting the channels have any effect. It didn't for me and I was wondering if I am missing something simple...