Author Topic: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon  (Read 1326476 times)

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Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1650 on: August 16, 2013, 08:01:08 pm »
Removing the two insulation washers from under the top ground contacts make the noise look a bit "prettier" on the screen. Now I get a 150 mV thick line and the new peaks are almost invisible. The large peaks are still here.

Who had added these insulation washers Owon or you? There aren't to mine. At one end of the top ground there is the common point of ac plug earth with the ground of Z-plate.

I also added ferrites on the display cable and the LED cable, but I'm pretty sure that at this point they aren't doing anything useful.
Also to me, there aren't doing any effect to gnd noise.

 

Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1651 on: August 16, 2013, 08:23:32 pm »
I mentioned some posts ago that I added a couple of washers to see if they will help. That was before the addition of ground bar. Before the bar, they were providing great noise reduction (probably due to combination with ferrite).
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1652 on: August 16, 2013, 08:28:09 pm »
With ferrites in place on the probe, I get around 100 mV of noise, but now it doesn't matter how the probe is positioned. I still see the spikes, but they are reduced. Also the large spikes remain.  In some positions, I can get as low as 50 mV of noise.

Removing the two insulation washers from under the top ground contacts make the noise look a bit "prettier" on the screen. Now I get a 150 mV thick line and the new peaks are almost invisible. The large peaks are still here.

As for the adapter cable ferrite, I already tried with few additional ferrites (both flat and round) and they didn't help much. I also added ferrites on the display cable and the LED cable, but I'm pretty sure that at this point they aren't doing anything useful.

I did try to register for owon.forumup.com once before, but it seems that administrator didn't approve my registration. I tried one more time now. Hopefully, I'll have more luck.
The part of the noise you no longer see with the probe cable ferrites was due to radiated energy, in my experience, mostly from the screen.

The flat cable ferrite I was talking about before is not for the adapter cable, is for the TFT panel flat cable. My scope came with this ferrite. Carrington's, Lemon's and yours did not, because apparently they started installing this ferrite with adapter version 3.2. I suspect that my scope doesn't show as much noise when I use it without probe ferrites because of the presence of this flat cable ferrite on the TFT panel cable.

The large spikes are still a puzzle, I gather there was no change in amplitude when you added the probe cable ferrites. So it appears that they are not due to radiated energy. If they are present while you run the scope strictly from the battery, it would appear that they are internally generated and passed on as common mode noise conductively. Perhaps when you get another scope we can figure out where they are coming from.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 08:32:11 pm by TomC »
 

Offline Skimask

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1653 on: August 16, 2013, 11:38:23 pm »
@Skimask
Even with all of this noise problems I'm having, I had no problems working with logic level signals at all. This scope won't catch very fast glitches, but if you need to take a look at general purpose I2C, SPI,RS-232,RS485, low or full speed USB and other slow protocols, then it's OK. Of course, it doesn't have protocol decoding, so you'll have to work out by hand what's going on and there's no memory segmentation either.
Ya, that's mainly what I'm looking at...what would amount to a single channel logic analyzer.
At the moment, I'm using a couple of Stellaris boards running SUMP, but that 'only' samples at about 100Mhz and doesn't give me any indication on the signals edges, quality, etc.
As good as the Rigol seems to be in this respect, the larger screen/resolution of the Owon seem to push me towards it.
I didn't take it apart.
I turned it on.

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Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1654 on: August 17, 2013, 07:54:47 am »
Skimask, forget the issue with the gnd noise that we talking about. All the scopes from April-May of 2013 and then have low level of gnd noise (?35mV).
If the characteristics and fw of SDS 7102 is appropriate for your job, don't think about Rigol. Except if you can buy the Rigol series 2000, that is much better oscilloscope than SDS7102.
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1655 on: August 17, 2013, 08:06:53 am »
AndrejaKo probably I have lost episodes about your work.
The spikes - as TomC said - are complex and I am afraid that something going wrong to your PSU Board from many soldering-desoldering.
It isn't logical your noise with 1uF (at the bar) to be 90mV, and with the 220nF to be 290mV!

Please do a check again, have in mind the upload photo of new psu (by TomC), mines photos and rf-loop. The only difference that I saw btw new psu and rf-loop that Owon don't use 1uF smd but only 220/1.5nF
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 09:36:49 am by lemon »
 

Offline luca1000

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1656 on: August 17, 2013, 10:58:44 am »
TomC ,

How many noise have you cut with this ferrite on LCD wire ?

For your opinion if try to do the some with this old Tek 220 I will reduce the noise ?

The new Tek TDS2024 have a ferrite included without modification.

 

Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1657 on: August 17, 2013, 11:24:29 am »
AndrejaKo probably I have lost episodes about your work.
The spikes - as TomC said - are complex and I am afraid that something going wrong to your PSU Board from many soldering-desoldering.
It isn't logical your noise with 1uF (at the bar) to be 90mV, and with the 220nF to be 290mV!

Please do a check again, have in mind the upload photo of new psu (by TomC), mines photos and rf-loop. The only difference that I saw btw new psu and rf-loop that Owon don't use 1uF smd but only 220/1.5nF

Of course it's not logical that just the capacitor change would make such a difference. It could be that I overheated some component and damaged it, but at the moment I can't think of any component that can be easily damaged in such way. I mean, I've mostly soldered around connectors and electrolytic capacitors. Maybe one of the electrolytics could have been damaged by too much heat? Maybe there are some bad joints? On the other hand, none of my joints look any worse than Owon joints on the PCB. In any case, I'll inspect the whole PSU under a microscope, since I can't think of anything else to do at this time (well except for adding capacitors of various sizes)
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1658 on: August 17, 2013, 12:44:58 pm »
The bad with capacitors is that needs to measure esr for damaged except the capacitance and needs measure out of pcb.
A good looking by microscope will help of course.
If you can find a second oscilloscope, you can search for peak sources.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1659 on: August 17, 2013, 01:52:12 pm »
The bad with capacitors is that needs to measure esr for damaged except the capacitance and needs measure out of pcb.
A good looking by microscope will help of course.
If you can find a second oscilloscope, you can search for peak sources.

Is it possible also use owon itself by using other channel for only sync (trig) and other channel for total noise. With this sync channel it can pick-up what give sync (trig) related to these peaks. (trig channel can adjust so that it do not disturb display.  Then look display. Just after watched peaks do not walk randomly in this noise caos but they lock to middle of screen you know that just this other channel have this signal and nothing other for trig. With this method it can regognize every noise peak source what this system separate parts generate.

Take CH1 to "noise channel" connect noise to this channel (example connect it to probe comp out GND) as before and adjust it good visibility (speed and level) but trigger source channel 2. (this time still "auto" trig)

Now there walk around of screen many kind of noise peaks (adjust speed so that density horizontally is so that can see something (random signals but like caos)

Then, connect other probe to CH2 and set also trigger source to CH2 and trigger mode Normal (not auto) and then, do not connect this probe but just move it just near example main power flyback.
After it trig adjust speed and level so that you can see signal... this signal what give trig is now stopped middle of screen and other noises walk there randomly in time axis. With this method you can look around and after short exercise so that you can use this method reliable... you can regognize what circuit is source for what part of noise chaos.  After find how to use it you can also adjust CH display so that it does not interfere with the visibility of the channel 1.

Note: Use 10M memory for maximize samplerate! Noise signals may include frequency components even up to over 200MHz and aliasing may give extremely wrong information if not careful.
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Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1660 on: August 17, 2013, 02:46:52 pm »
TomC ,

How many noise have you cut with this ferrite on LCD wire ?

For your opinion if try to do the some with this old Tek 220 I will reduce the noise ?

The new Tek TDS2024 have a ferrite included without modification.
Lucas, in general, whether ferrites will help or not depends on the specific situation. If there is common mode noise present in the wires where you use the ferrite it will, if not you probably will not notice any difference. Without knowing whether noise is present or not you can't predict what the outcome will be, you can always try and see what happens!
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1661 on: August 17, 2013, 02:52:02 pm »
Of course it's not logical that just the capacitor change would make such a difference. It could be that I overheated some component and damaged it, but at the moment I can't think of any component that can be easily damaged in such way. I mean, I've mostly soldered around connectors and electrolytic capacitors. Maybe one of the electrolytics could have been damaged by too much heat? Maybe there are some bad joints? On the other hand, none of my joints look any worse than Owon joints on the PCB. In any case, I'll inspect the whole PSU under a microscope, since I can't think of anything else to do at this time (well except for adding capacitors of various sizes)
While you are waiting for another scope, why not try rf-loop's suggestion. It may be a little difficult to implement it at slow M settings (scan Mode), but for example, you can try to trigger on one of these high amplitude spikes (normal trigger) and use a faster M setting.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 02:55:56 pm by TomC »
 

Offline Clint

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1662 on: August 17, 2013, 07:48:44 pm »
My poor old Metrix OX 863 (150Mhz analogue with cursors) bit the dust last week, which is how I found this site and why I am here :)

I decided to look at these new modern fan-dangled scopes, my main uses are the repair of HF Radios, vintage computers (1970's - early 80's) and some automotive engine management signal modification.

I do have a budget of around £500 but I really can not see any point in spending more on a scope than buying one of these kiddies at £250; maybe someone has a better option and if so I would love to consider it :)

So just to double check is this the one I want:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380611013273

Cheers all
Clint

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Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1663 on: August 17, 2013, 08:23:22 pm »
My poor old Metrix OX 863 (150Mhz analogue with cursors) bit the dust last week, which is how I found this site and why I am here :)

I decided to look at these new modern fan-dangled scopes, my main uses are the repair of HF Radios, vintage computers (1970's - early 80's) and some automotive engine management signal modification.

I do have a budget of around £500 but I really can not see any point in spending more on a scope than buying one of these kiddies at £250; maybe someone has a better option and if so I would love to consider it :)

So just to double check is this the one I want:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380611013273

Cheers all
Clint
Yes, this is the scope featured in this thread. If you decide to buy it verify that the serial number is 1324xxx or higher, that means it was built on the 24th week of 2013 which translates to around June. During that time frame, according to the information we have, Owon began shipping scopes with new PSU and adapter boards that considerably reduced the GND noise issue.

Keep in mind that the SDS7102 is a 100MHz DSO, however, although not advertised by the manufacturer, the usable bandwidth extends slightly beyond 150MHz. If you research the subject a little bit you'll find that DSO's are not quite the same as your analogue CRO. They have many features that enhance their usability, but there are certain things, for example catching glitches, that a CRO or DPO are better suited for. That said, I own several CROs as well as the SDS7102, and 99% of the time I choose my DSO for the job at hand.

Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask if you need more information! :)
 

Offline Clint

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1664 on: August 17, 2013, 09:11:18 pm »
Thanks Tom, most helpful; they do state in the ebay advert that's its the latest June 2013 low noise model but have just asked the serial number question :)

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Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1665 on: August 17, 2013, 09:43:25 pm »
I must have made a bad joint somewhere. I inspected whole board under the microscope and found a couple of joints that didn't really look so good, so I redid them.  I also cleaned everything with alcohol and I now got results which are as good as my previously good results, except for the huge peaks. Smaller peaks are now gone. I'd attach an image of that, but I can't find it at the moment.

I got in touch with the other scope owner I know and it looks like that it will take a couple of weeks for us to find an empty time slot for inspection, since we both have exams starting real soon. My idea is to completely remove the PSU from the scope, fire it up from the battery and then poke around until I hopefully find something.

Rf-loop's idea is an improvement to what I was doing when probing and now I can reliably capture the problematic noise, but my problem now is that I can't pinpoint its location. It seems as if the whole scope is radiating the noise. I switched to my 150 MHz probes for this and I can pick up noise whenever I bring a probe within 1 cm of the Z-plate or the PSU and the whole plate seems to be radiating it with pretty even amplitude.  I can see it very nicely when the probe is right next to the coil on the MC34063A, but I don't know how to decide if the noise is coming from there or if it just happens to be on that trace, just like it's everywhere else too.

The large peaks seem to be somewhat repetitive. I'm attaching an animation of how they look over a couple of "cycles". I made the shots using scope's waveform record feature. It seems quite complicated to me to export the whole recording and the manual plus scope's help don't seem to give me a good explanation. In the end, I played it back frame by frame and exported image of each frame. Pause between each frame is 100 ms (plus the time it takes the scope to trigger?).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 09:54:52 pm by AndrejaKo »
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1666 on: August 17, 2013, 11:01:37 pm »
Rf-loop's idea is an improvement to what I was doing when probing and now I can reliably capture the problematic noise, but my problem now is that I can't pinpoint its location. It seems as if the whole scope is radiating the noise. I switched to my 150 MHz probes for this and I can pick up noise whenever I bring a probe within 1 cm of the Z-plate or the PSU and the whole plate seems to be radiating it with pretty even amplitude.  I can see it very nicely when the probe is right next to the coil on the MC34063A, but I don't know how to decide if the noise is coming from there or if it just happens to be on that trace, just like it's everywhere else too.
I hope I'm not rehashing the same thing you are doing, but just in case, here is an example:

Set the trigger source to CH1 and the mode to normal. Attach the CH1 probe and the long ground lead to the ground lug. Set the trigger level high enough so that the scope triggers intermittently. At this point you should only be triggering on the highest of the high peaks. You can set the timebase to a faster rate so you can examine the peak in more detail. CH2 is now available to see events in different parts of the scope that coincide with the peak that you see on CH1.

I attached a capture where I'm doing this, notice the trigger level. This is just an example so I have CH2 connected to ground also. I don't have the scope open to probe around, otherwise I would have captured something more realistic.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1667 on: August 18, 2013, 06:51:10 am »
I must have made a bad joint somewhere. I inspected whole board under the microscope and found a couple of joints that didn't really look so good, so I redid them.  I also cleaned everything with alcohol and I now got results which are as good as my previously good results, except for the huge peaks. Smaller peaks are now gone. I'd attach an image of that, but I can't find it at the moment.

I got in touch with the other scope owner I know and it looks like that it will take a couple of weeks for us to find an empty time slot for inspection, since we both have exams starting real soon. My idea is to completely remove the PSU from the scope, fire it up from the battery and then poke around until I hopefully find something.

Rf-loop's idea is an improvement to what I was doing when probing and now I can reliably capture the problematic noise, but my problem now is that I can't pinpoint its location. It seems as if the whole scope is radiating the noise. I switched to my 150 MHz probes for this and I can pick up noise whenever I bring a probe within 1 cm of the Z-plate or the PSU and the whole plate seems to be radiating it with pretty even amplitude.  I can see it very nicely when the probe is right next to the coil on the MC34063A, but I don't know how to decide if the noise is coming from there or if it just happens to be on that trace, just like it's everywhere else too.

The large peaks seem to be somewhat repetitive. I'm attaching an animation of how they look over a couple of "cycles". I made the shots using scope's waveform record feature. It seems quite complicated to me to export the whole recording and the manual plus scope's help don't seem to give me a good explanation. In the end, I played it back frame by frame and exported image of each frame. Pause between each frame is 100 ms (plus the time it takes the scope to trigger?).

Also note TomC's good advice. (and of course (as TomC advised) you can swap channels, which one you take trig and which one you look signal. (some times and/or for different peoples and light situations  this yellow color may be better for use as "main" channel)


If source for this high peak is inside scope (and I believe it is)  you can find source.
But you need perhaps change method/thinking how to probe/diagnose it.
In your animation there is aquire mode "peak" and speed 10ms/div. Signal is coming  CH1 and you have level triggered to this peak using same channel CH1. Becouse this, only information what we have is that there is these level peaks what are about double level related to other noises level.

For detect where from it come and detect what is "inside" this one peak it may need some amount more.

How to localize this noise peak source.
You tell that you can pick up it "everywhere". 

Connect CH1 probe using 10:1 setting in probe and scope to example probe comp out GND or other place of GND what exactly same place you can use also later (for keep same settings and  get comparable information) Set vertical so that it is center of screen.

Do not now care about trigger anything. Only watch this TFT and there running noise (here you can use also slow speed and peak mode. Adjust level so that you can see these highest peaks highest level are peaking around  4th div up from vertical centerline (baseline).
And in all cases keep this CH1 probe connection and level settings.
Do not change anything in CH1. Remember where is highest peaks peak level around (not exatly of course).

Acquire mode normal (not Peak!)

Change horizontal speed first to example 100us or example 10us.
Memory so that with 2 channel mode it use 500MSa/s per channel what ever speed you use what need related to this problem. (this is important)

Connect other probe to CH2. (use also here now first 10:1 setting)
Change trigger source to channel CH1.
Trigger mode Normal.

Adjust CH2 level so that its base trace is around -2 - -3div down from center. ( is more easy if keep CH2 visible but so that it do not overlap CH1 on the upper half of screen.)

In this phase scope do not trig or it trigs depending what is on CH2 and how is trigger level set.
(and of course use trigger coupling DC and rising edge in this case now)

Now take CH2 probe hook out (hook is too big antenna) and take GND wire totally out from probe (no need at all now and it is danger for make short circuits inside scope probing and it is also antenna, so take away.)

Now there is GND area and center pin visible. Take small piece of some small isolating tube and put it over center pin and GND area. See picture attached,  there  is CH2 probe (but in this case I use Hewlett-Packard 300MHz probe)

Now it is perhaps enough unsensitive so that it give enough level only very near of source what we want find.  Of course also need adjust CH2 vertical V/div so that CH2 is not too sensitive!

If you have not yet adjusted CH2 trigger level it is baseline of CH2. And you can see signal on the TFT if there is enough signal for produce trig. (becouse you are not in Auto trig mode, it do not generate automatic (unsync) trig in case there is not available real trig. (and THIS may lead many cases totally wrong findings... Auto trig is nice but it is also danger in some situations)

Now pick-up some signal to CH2, example move this "capasitive near field" probe head now near to main power flyback secondary (example near secondary diodes heatsink)
Adjust now CH2 level so that you get "something" around 2-3 div high yeallow signal on screen.
Now, start adjusting trigger level (CH2 is now trig source) until it trig these around highest signals in CH2.  Now after you get steady trigger in CH2 keep it and look CH1 red trace. Some noise component is now there stopped and all other sources noise components are moving randomly.
 What kind of signal there in CH1 is now sychronized. If it is not what we are finding, move probe CH2 position and pick up other suspected source.  When you find what you have try find you see this level of signal locked what you remember when you first adjust CH1 level. 

Now your CH2 probe is near this source. If you change some other position you see there is some other noise peak in CH1 locked  to trigger time position. (look only this horizontal area where is CH2 trigger position horizontally)

Now you can look CH1 signal (and CH2 is just only for trig)
With this method you can go inside this very fat "noise" trace and if this trace noise level is example 6 div peak to peak you can easy find under 0.5div high sigle noise peak source there well under total noise noise level as long as CH2 lock this signal to trig position. (becouse this signal stay locked and others trawel over screen wildly your eyes do not need look these other noises, just this locked signal there is important and this is coming where is your CH2 probe. Now you can zoom in this peak, chnage CH1 better level etc. Now if you make changes in this noise source circuit you can also exactly see what change happend just in this noise signal level and other things (example its frequancy/risetime figure)

Keep care that CH2 is not too sensitive so that it pick up too much signals. If you put CH2 probe (insulated) to only Z-Plate and it give trig, your adjustment is far too sensitive in CH2. It need give trig only very close this noise peak real source.

After you get this highest noise peak (or what ever it is becouse from 10ms/div and peak mode showed peak we do not know "anything")  locked in CH1 using this CH2 trigger pick-up method then adjust horizontal speed for better visibility. Your CH2 probe is now very very near this peak source circuit.




In image, this is example how to arrange this CH2 probe. And note agen, NO GND, only capasitive pick up with this around 5mm long probe own center pin what is there inside  this red isolation tube. (black isolation is over probe GND area (this probe is more thin than Owon probe).

There can also use other kind of probe. (magnetic loop probe)
But this small capasitive pick-up is well enough for this case here now.

Probe hook out. From center pin to GND area around 1 - 2 turn round coil (just without any extra leads), diameter around 6-8mm and this all inside isulation. This kind of probe is very unsensitive but if there is RF near this coil it pick up it. It need quite strong field. But, this is what many times need inside some equipment trouble shooting. But this do not need now here.


In this image is this "capasitive" pick-up probe for this Owon case now.
CH2 pic-up sensitivity need reduce so much that trig can do only from very very close signal source. Then it do not trig from "all" noises but just wanted source. What signal is now locked in CH1 trace is this noise what is generated in this circuit where CH2 probe get trigger.  Yes it need some experiments and exercise. After can use this method, you really can go inside this total noise and find what fraction of noise is coming from this circuit where your CH2 probe is and what is this source noise "signature".
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 09:25:48 am by rf-loop »
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Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1668 on: August 18, 2013, 10:48:09 am »
I mostly posted the animation to show the general pattern of the peaks. They are always in groups of 2 and 3, with the 3rd one disappearing from time to time.

Anyway, thanks to rf-loop for providing more specific probing instructions!

What is confusing me here is the fact that on the L2 coil near the MC34063A I have the noise riding on top of a square wave. This give the highest amplitude to the noise, so I could conclude that this is the noise source. On the other hand, if I probe near the  MC34063A, the amplitude of the noise of lower, but the shape of the wave is same. The amplitude difference is just the height of the square wave I'm picking up. I placed a body of an aluminium electrolytic capacitor over the L2 coil and it seems to filter out the square wave, so now I'm only getting the noise, which has same amplitude as the noise near the MC.

Another place where I can get good noise is between the large carbon resistor marked R33 and UTC TL431K. The noise itself seems to have the greatest amplitude there if I don't count the square wave.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1669 on: August 18, 2013, 11:09:11 am »
I mostly posted the animation to show the general pattern of the peaks. They are always in groups of 2 and 3, with the 3rd one disappearing from time to time.

Anyway, thanks to rf-loop for providing more specific probing instructions!

What is confusing me here is the fact that on the L2 coil near the MC34063A I have the noise riding on top of a square wave. This give the highest amplitude to the noise, so I could conclude that this is the noise source. On the other hand, if I probe near the  MC34063A, the amplitude of the noise of lower, but the shape of the wave is same. The amplitude difference is just the height of the square wave I'm picking up. I placed a body of an aluminium electrolytic capacitor over the L2 coil and it seems to filter out the square wave, so now I'm only getting the noise, which has same amplitude as the noise near the MC.

Another place where I can get good noise is between the large carbon resistor marked R33 and UTC TL431K. The noise itself seems to have the greatest amplitude there if I don't count the square wave.

As told long long time ago -7.6V SMPS is one of most bad noise source.
(if this is now clear that these most high peaks come from it. It can proof with this separate trig method)

Specially some old PSU version design is very extremely poor in this area.
If look there this "magpie's nest" GND area it is really terrible. (just this point least it can specially think, "perhaps designer have been drunk".) 

Is your version this where also power switch metal case is connected to very noisy area of this "transmitter" tank "coil"   (this stupid GND loop what go around this -7.6V SMPS and where componets are distributed to GND just as design some DC circuits.  I hope he take next time more easy project and design example simple pocket torch with battery, switch and bulb). 

« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 11:15:11 am by rf-loop »
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1670 on: August 18, 2013, 11:21:01 am »
Yes rf-loop he has this version of PSU (PCB-T115-J Ver3).
For this reason among the changes that I suggested to him, was to cut this connection.

I think it is clearly now from where come these peaks. But it is strange why there aren't these before!
I think that this area fried a lot of by soldering-desoldering.
Perhaps the coil and IC must changed. Of course the coil is easy to checked before.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 11:23:11 am by lemon »
 

Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1671 on: August 18, 2013, 11:36:43 am »
@lemon
Just to note, I've been mentioning these peaks from the beginning! They are NOT new. I had some smaller peaks that disappeared after latest intervention on the PSU and I've been referring to these old peaks as "large peaks" in several posts.  You can see them in my previous pictures for example:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-of-owon-sds7102/?action=dlattach;attach=57473;image
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-of-owon-sds7102/?action=dlattach;attach=57401;image
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-of-owon-sds7102/?action=dlattach;attach=57405;image (both peaks and the noise on the coil visible)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-of-owon-sds7102/?action=dlattach;attach=57407;image

It's just that with the usual way of measuring noise, scope doesn't trigger on them.

 

Offline lemon

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1672 on: August 18, 2013, 12:05:09 pm »
One other time I have lost episodes...  |O

I think that to this area yours and mine psu are identical, but I haven't these peaks  ???

Finally, maybe the change that made to electrolytic capacitors, has played an important role?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-of-owon-sds7102/?action=dlattach;attach=52105;image
 

Offline AndrejaKo

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1673 on: August 18, 2013, 03:37:23 pm »
I'll see if I can get some better electrolytic capacitors and attempt replacement if I can easily source them.

Also does anyone know the specifications of the coil next to MC34063A? I think that inductance is already shown in available schematics, so I'm particularly interested in current rating of it.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 03:54:13 pm by AndrejaKo »
 

Offline TomC

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Re: REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon
« Reply #1674 on: August 18, 2013, 04:29:54 pm »
I'll see if I can get some better electrolytic capacitors and attempt replacement if I can easily source them.

Also does anyone know the specifications of the coil next to MC34063A? I think that inductance is already shown in available schematics, so I'm particularly interested in current rating of it.
The circuit used by Owon is almost identical to the one in the MC34063A datasheet (see attachment). I don't know the current rating for the coil, but perhaps you can get some idea by measuring the current going through pin 4 of the adapter cable. That would be steady state current, not peak, so you need to increase that to get a safety margin. I would also consider using a different geometry for that inductor, for example, toroid. I think the one used by Owon is the bobbin type which is prone to producing EMI (see attachment Inductor Selection). I also attached the original datasheets.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 04:31:31 pm by TomC »
 


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