Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus

[Mark_O]

I have read all the posts and threads about it, if I understand it, since the modification for the DS2072 seems to work also on the DS2072A,

I've seen no confirmation of that anywhere.  Precisely the opposite, in fact.

I want an oscilloscope for small home projects, and I would also buy a simple function generator (if possible also  arbitrary), the DS2072A-S has them both.. But the thing that interests me most of all is the possibility to decode serial signals.

In that case, get the DS1074Z-S... it's a no-brainer.  Cheaper than the DS2072A-S will be, available immediately, and known to work with the keygens.  Way more than enough capability for "small home projects".  The only constraint I'd mention there would be that if CAN protocol decoding is important to you, the 1074Z-S won't have it, and the 2072A-S will.

[Carrington]

The only constraint I'd mention there would be that if CAN protocol decoding is important to you, the 1074Z-S won't have it, and the 2072A-S will.

For me both, CAN and LIN are important. I have a DS2072. And I'm sure that RIGOL can tune the firmware to be more competitive.
For example: Why not add more features?
We are requesting it, and we are the customer, and if another manufacturer gives more for less, then...

[Mark_O]

There's still no known way to add CAN decoding to the non A DS2000's.

I'd also add that while several folks have concluded that since the CAN protocol decoder is "just software" that they'll be able to load the 2072A firmware into their 2072 non-A, and get it that way.  So no biggie.

That may well be true.  However, it's also entirely possible that firmware releases for the 2000A family will be separate from and incompatible with the 2000-series.  Thus no CAN for the 2000-nonA owners. 

[And to anticipate those who might say there's no way Rigol would ever do something like this, I have to tell you, they already have.   

Back when the 1000C family was popular, it had a number of problems with it's firmware, which Rigol promised to fix.  Eventually they brought out the also popular 1000E-series, which was essentially the same device with a few tweaks to the hardware (added 1GHz sampling into its short buffer).  And its firmware DID fix those problems.  Unfortunately it could not be loaded into the 1000C-series, and those folks never did get any of the promised fixes to the acknowledged problems with their firmware.  (The Rigol service manager in China who posted those promises did however return to that forum where the public comments were made, and replaced them all to say "hello".   )

So, the moral is: don't count on something just because you think it would be reasonable.]

[Mark_O]

For me both, CAN and LIN are important.

No argument there.

I have a DS2072. And I'm sure that RIGOL can tune the firmware to be more competitive.

I'm sure they could too.

For example: Why not add more features?

Why waste time adding features to yesterday's model, when you have a bright shiny new model you're trying to sell?   

I wouldn't be surprised if once the 2000A-series becomes widely available, we never see anything more than bug-fix releases for the non-A 2000's.  Heck, when was the last time there was even a bug-fix release from Rigol for the DS2000-family?

[Reboot]

Agree with Mark_O's last posts 100%.  This is why I didn't wait for the "A" model, the scope's functionality is there for what I need minus the CAN decoding.

[Carrington]

For example: Why not add more features?

Why waste time adding features to yesterday's model, when you have a bright shiny new model you're trying to sell?   

Furthermore, we can not complain, because we have more functionality than we paid. But of course we always want more...

I wouldn't be surprised if once the 2000A-series becomes widely available, we never see anything more than bug-fix releases for the non-A 2000's.  Heck, when was the last time there was even a bug-fix release from Rigol for the DS2000-family?

I suppose they're at it:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/msg158684/#msg158684

By the way, we must thank the great job of Marmad. 

[Mark_O]

...when was the last time there was even a bug-fix release from Rigol for the DS2000-family?

I suppose they're at it:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/msg158684/#msg158684

I haven't been following it, but it looks like the last DS2000 update was about 5 months ago... released some time in June, and announced here on July 2.  (00.01.01.00.02).  But AFAICT, there are still some unresolved issues pending?

By the way, we must thank the great job of Marmad. 

No doubt about that.      Mark's done a fabulous job.

[PA0PBZ]

Looking into the latest(?) update .GEL file (00.01.01.00.02) for the DS2000 series, I think the CAN decoder is already present and we just need to find the right bit to enable it:

Press this key or turn the Function knob to setup the CAN trigger's Speed as10kb/s, 20kb/s, 33.3kb/s, 50kb/s, 62.5kb/s, 83.3kb/s, 100kb/s, 125kb/s, 250kb/s, 500kb/s, 800kb/s, 1Mb/s or user.

[Mark_O]

Looking into the latest(?) update .GEL file (00.01.01.00.02) for the DS2000 series, I think the CAN decoder is already present and we just need to find the right bit to enable it:

Press this key or turn the Function knob to setup the CAN trigger's Speed as10kb/s, 20kb/s, 33.3kb/s, 50kb/s, 62.5kb/s, 83.3kb/s, 100kb/s, 125kb/s, 250kb/s, 500kb/s, 800kb/s, 1Mb/s or user.

That would be pretty slick if it's been there all along (at least the last 5 months).    As you say, the trick is figuring out how to enable it.  I probably would have bought a 2072 several months ago, if I could have turned CAN on.

[Rigby]

The Saleae Logic has CAN decoding and is pretty freaking cheap.  Not as cheap as a free firmware upgrade or a hack, but cheaper than a new scope by quite a bit.

[Mark_O]

The Saleae Logic has CAN decoding and is pretty freaking cheap.

True.  So does the USBee SX, which decodes CAN just fine, and is even cheaper, since I already own one. 

Not as cheap as a free firmware upgrade or a hack, but cheaper than a new scope by quite a bit.

Also correct.  However, both provide access to the stream only in the Logic domain.  Unlike the DSO, which would also allow the signal to be viewed in the Voltage domain as well, and at the same time.  I would never buy a DSO exclusively for this, but a DS2072 with simultaneous CAN decode (combined with segment-based recording on bus error conditions) would be enough of a value-add to interest me.  That's all I was saying.

[sprocket]

yay.. Just got my brand spanking new Rigol DS2072 yesterday, all options unlocked with no problems. So I would like to say thanks to all the guys that put in alot of work to sniff out the codes and making key gens. If I ever run in to one of you guys I'll definitelyy buy you a couple of rounds of beers.  O0 O0

[Rigby]

The Saleae Logic has CAN decoding and is pretty freaking cheap.

True.  So does the USBee SX, which decodes CAN just fine, and is even cheaper, since I already own one. 

I had not heard of that one... The software looks much nicer than the Saleae software. 

Not as cheap as a free firmware upgrade or a hack, but cheaper than a new scope by quite a bit.

Also correct.  However, both provide access to the stream only in the Logic domain.

Excellent point; I'd not thought of that.  Thank you.

[AndersAnd]

The Saleae Logic has CAN decoding and is pretty freaking cheap.

True.  So does the USBee SX, which decodes CAN just fine, and is even cheaper, since I already own one. 

I had not heard of that one... The software looks much nicer than the Saleae software.

It's basically identical hardware for Saleae and USBee.
To make hardware from one of the two companies compatible with software from the other you just need to change the VID/PID in the external EEPROM.
Or you can make a device compatible with more than one software package by adding an extra EEPROM.
Or buy a $10 clone on eBay or AliExpress that's already compatible with one or both software packages.
Read here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-new-dg1062z-vs-dg4062/msg326674/#msg326674
There's also open source LA software and firmware for these devices at Sigrok: http://sigrok.org

[N2tl]

Can you report the hardware level and firmware on your new DS2072?
Would be helpful to a continuing assessment of the keygen...
Also, can you confirm that your unit is a DS2072, and not a DS2072A?

Bruce

[sprocket]

I can see you're from Denmark too. Did you buy your Rigol in Denmark, or maybe from Germany?

I bought it from batronix in germany, the only reputable distributor that dont rip you off that I have come across. RS and farnell are too expensive, and you need a CVR number to buy from them, and then there is the swedish based "instrumentcenter.se" they are a good 30% more expensive if I recall, and I gave up on UK based as they either want you to contact them for qoutes or the prices are pretty stupid high. Last I tríed to get some thing from the UK was a electronic DC load, after VAT and such, it was twice the price if I imported it directly from the manufacture in china, thats with shipping,import tax and VAT. 

[manzini]

I bought it from batronix in germany, the only reputable distributor that dont rip you off....

I bought it from silcon.cz ... very very happy, I think also very reputable and they don't rip you off.

[JDubU]

I bought it from batronix in germany, the only reputable distributor that dont rip you off that I have come across. RS and farnell are too expensive, and you need a CVR number to buy from them, and then there is the swedish based "instrumentcenter.se" they are a good 30% more expensive if I recall, and I gave up on UK based as they either want you to contact them for qoutes or the prices are pretty stupid high. Last I tríed to get some thing from the UK was a electronic DC load, after VAT and such, it was twice the price if I imported it directly from the manufacture in china, thats with shipping,import tax and VAT.

In the US, I have found TEquipment to be very good and they give a discount for EEVblog members.  Their FAQ says that they do sell and ship internationally but at some added expense.  Might be worth getting a quote from them next time you need something.  http://www.tequipment.net

[sprocket]

I bought it from batronix in germany, the only reputable distributor that dont rip you off....

I bought it from silcon.cz ... very very happy, I think also very reputable and they don't rip you off.

Please, if you are going to qote me for some thing, dont just take snippets so it sounds like I said something that I didnt. I speccificly said " the only reputable distributor that dont rip you off that I have come across"

I bought it from batronix in germany, the only reputable distributor that dont rip you off that I have come across. RS and farnell are too expensive, and you need a CVR number to buy from them, and then there is the swedish based "instrumentcenter.se" they are a good 30% more expensive if I recall, and I gave up on UK based as they either want you to contact them for qoutes or the prices are pretty stupid high. Last I tríed to get some thing from the UK was a electronic DC load, after VAT and such, it was twice the price if I imported it directly from the manufacture in china, thats with shipping,import tax and VAT.

In the US, I have found TEquipment to be very good and they give a discount for EEVblog members.  Their FAQ says that they do sell and ship internationally but at some added expense.  Might be worth getting a quote from them next time you need something.  http://www.tequipment.net

Yea I know them, I havnt bought anything  from them though. The problem is import tax and VAT when you import goods from outside the EU, will basicly nullify any savings you get on the item you buy. If it wasn't for that, I would have no problem buying from tequibment at all.

[AndersAnd]

I know I started this discussion, but maybe we should continue the discussion about where to buy Rigol in another topic before this topic becomes too much off topic. Maybe there's already another topic about this? I think this discussion could go on for long.

[sprocket]

Probably a good idea.. We are cluttering the thread with unrelated discusions. 

[DD4DA]

I can see you're from Denmark too. Did you buy your Rigol in Denmark, or maybe from Germany?

I bought it from batronix in germany, the only reputable distributor that dont rip you off that I have come across.

AME-Elecronik (Alexander Meier Eletronik) www.ame-engineering.de is also a good place to get Rigol Equipment. I brought the DSA815TG, DS2072, and DM3058E from him. Friendly and smart person - i recommend him.

vy 73 de DD4DA

[manzini]

Please, if you are going to qote me for some thing, dont just take snippets so it sounds like I said something that I didnt. I speccificly said " the only reputable distributor that dont rip you off that I have come across"

Excuse me, I am little lost in translate.
I want to clarify that, I'm not saying anything with double meaning, the meaning is very simple: if you have not known anything honest that BATRONIX (you said) then if you want to try anothers that you come across, I recommend you to include silconz.cz if you don't know.

[cybernet]

what does the sales talk have to do with "Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus" ?   

[echen1024]

what does the sales talk have to do with "Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus" ?   

Well, now we know where to go to get a Rigol if we want to sniff its I2C bus.