EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[EEVblog]

So apparently in order to get the most use out of alkalines the device actually limits the brightness of the screen. That also explains why it crapped out at about 10 hours with Batteriser installed, Garmin figured the device wouldn't come near the advertised operating time with alkalines.  This also proves the device was also set to alkaline mode. So another fabricated piece of bullshit by Batteriser, the device never stopped working, just the screen dimmed, completely as designed.

More Batteriser testing FAIL.
Can they not get anything right? This isn't rocket science.

[Fungus]

"The data shows that the gps will stop functioning after one hour and 52 minutes, and the screen dims to dark"

That isn't them saying the batteries are flat....

But "stop functioning" is a lie, n'est pas?

[firewalker]

I dig through the Approach G5's firmware. The message is:

"The battery power is too low for full backlight. Use rechargeable NiMH or lithium batteries to prevent this limitation."



Alexander.

[EEVblog]

I dig through the Approach G5's firmware. The message is:
"The battery power is too low for full backlight. Use rechargeable NiMH or lithium batteries to prevent this limitation."

That seems to confirm they have screwed up this test completely. It didn't actually stop working. FAIL.

[Fungus]

I dig through the Approach G5's firmware. The message is:

"The battery power is too low for full backlight. Use rechargeable NiMH or lithium batteries to prevent this limitation."

Next question is: Do you actually have to keep prodding the screen to keep it at "full" brightness?

If so, that explains the finger. The finger makes no sense otherwise.

(It would also show the sheer deviousness of the batteroo people to try and show something lasting "many times longer")

[madires]

So apparently in order to get the most use out of alkalines the device actually limits the brightness of the screen. That also explains why it crapped out at about 10 hours with Batteriser installed, Garmin figured the device wouldn't come near the advertised operating time with alkalines.  This also proves the device was also set to alkaline mode. So another fabricated piece of bullshit by Batteriser, the device never stopped working, just the screen dimmed, completely as designed.

More Batteriser testing FAIL.
Can they not get anything right? This isn't rocket science.

... this leads to the logical conclusion, that the whole story is a deliberate deception. It's simply too much nonsense to be considered as lack of experience and knowledge. In a few cases of badly designed devices/gadgets/toys Batteriser might help a little bit, but anything else is just hot air.

[FrankBuss]

... this leads to the logical conclusion, that the whole story is a deliberate deception. It's simply too much nonsense to be considered as lack of experience and knowledge. In a few cases of badly designed devices/gadgets/toys Batteriser might help a little bit, but anything else is just hot air.

Would be really interesting to test the batteriser. In the FAQ they claim "the Batteriser sleeve is designed to deliver as much current as a battery is able to supply to the device". Good luck with that in this small form factor with the near short circuit current of an AA battery for a high power device. It will glow nice red if the boost converter isn't really high efficient

[Galenbo]

More Batteriser testing FAIL.
Can they not get anything right? This isn't rocket science.

Why expect that from a bunch of guys calling themselves PhD, who express energy in volt and clearly do not know how to use %.
What's next? Expressing time in kilogram?

[amyk]

(It would also show the sheer deviousness of the batteroo people to try and show something lasting "many times longer")

According to Google, "The battery power is too low for full backlight." message has never before appeared on the Internet, and this might be the first mention of it.

If someone who has this unit could make it display that message and show a picture of it side-by-side with the one in the video, we'll have some pretty convincing proof. The fact that it's in the firmware might not be as convincing as others.  Now anyone who has a YT account can post that message on the Batteriser video, or make their own debunking...

... this leads to the logical conclusion, that the whole story is a deliberate deception. It's simply too much nonsense to be considered as lack of experience and knowledge. In a few cases of badly designed devices/gadgets/toys Batteriser might help a little bit, but anything else is just hot air.

Agreed.

[firewalker]

There is another string in the firmware.

"Batteries Too Low For Backlight"

So there was another voltage step that would disable the backlight. It seems to me that the unit would function for more time by just pressing ok.

[fcb]

So the product is debunked.  Their claims are poorly researched at best.  They look like they are using shills on all levels.

"Batteriser" (wonder why they haven't used a Z as they are from the US?) looks like it will raise a substantial amount of money.

So what? They haven't got a business as pretty soon after delivery some of the other magazines/blogs/vlogs out there will comprehensively test the product (assuming it gets delivered) - most likely they will be nursing a hefty loss and huge reputational damage.

And no VC in their right mind is going to fund them - even a small amount of due diligence on the Batteriser will find this thread.

Job done Dave, can we go back to some great teardowns, the uSupply and mailbags - even the postcards FFS.

[Fungus]

Job done Dave, can we go back to some great teardowns, the uSupply and mailbags - even the postcards FFS.

Nobody's forcing you to read this thread. It's fun finding new flaws in their arguments (doubly so when you can use screenshots from their own videos to damn them).

[fcb]

Job done Dave, can we go back to some great teardowns, the uSupply and mailbags - even the postcards FFS.

Nobody's forcing you to read this thread. It's fun finding new flaws in their arguments (doubly so when you can use screenshots from their own videos to damn them).

Damn it! I just read your reply.

[LabSpokane]

And no VC in their right mind is going to fund them -

SK Telecom already did. Up to $1MM USD. Now they're trying get money out of the Department of Defense.

This is a problem. It needs to stop. It's a discredit to the profession. The Roohparvar brothers are the collective Dr. Oz of electrical engineering.

[Fungus]

And no VC in their right mind is going to fund them -

SK Telecom already did. Up to $1MM USD.

Citations...?

Edit: Don't worry, I found it - google is my friend.

Edit2: And that was back in March. This is more proof that the $30,000 IndieGoGo thing is only being done for nefarious reasons.

[LabSpokane]

Bob,

When you get back from lunch, you have some deleting to do...

[LabSpokane]

Wow. That was quick. Yeoman's work there, Bob.

[AmmoJammo]

"The data shows that the gps will stop functioning after one hour and 52 minutes, and the screen dims to dark"

That isn't them saying the batteries are flat....

But "stop functioning" is a lie, n'est pas?

Ah, but it did "stop functioning" till the "ok" button was pressed.... they didn't claim the batteries to be fully depleted, or that they'd reached the cut off voltage of the device...

[PeterL]

About the golf GPS test,
First of all: yes I know I was wrong thinking this was a Dakota at the wrong battery setting at first,but before drawing more wrong conclusions I think we have to look a little closer:

1) GPS devices don't like to be inside
It's very hard to get a 'fix' when inside a building, and for the older generation receivers it's nearly impossible. During this search the receiver will probably be more power hungry.
A 'cold fix' takes even longer since it has to gather the almanac data first before being able to calculate it's position. So whatever time the Garmin can run on a set of batteries in this test, it's not 1:1 comparable with real live experience.

2) About the finger:
Knowing Garmin software, the device could ask "Are you indoors?" or something like that after a minute or so without reception. I think they need this force the GPS receiver to stay active

3) Look at the current graph again that they gave us:

It's clearly switching to some powersaving mode after 1.5 hours. It also looks as if it goes from constant current to constant current (or the voltage didn't drop anymore.) But they did leave it running for a while after it switched mode.

4)
Running at full power for 10 hours with the batteriser against only 1.5 or 2 hours without is still a huge plus for the batteriser IMHO. ->Which is for me is a big reason to believe something else/something more is going on.

But at the end it isjust a waste of time speculating how the got their nice results. Only independent tests can tell what the batteriser (or just the technology)  is capable off. And the fact we don't see that should say enough.

[PeterL]

Check out the blog thing on their Youtube channel!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFr9QYi8Yq2ckWYPx_Vui8A

"Pls stand by we are in a process of releasing a video with the technical explanation for all engineers on how Batteriser works, while at first glance, it seems implausible, I am sure that real genuine engineers will appreciate our whiteboard technical discussions along with simulation, data matching battery companies spec sheets, in conjunction with device data. Of course, those whose revenue will be reduced by our technology will do everything to divert attention"

I wonder if it will be released before or after the end of their IndieGoGo campaign. 

Probably short before the campaign ends, long enough so most last doubters will see it, but short enough to not give anyone time to make a reaction video.
I guess we will see a video in which nothing will really be explained. They will admit that the critics are very smart, but the Roohparvar's will look much smarter, and that shall be enough to proof the batteriser works.

[Smokey]

This has probably been said before, has anyone taken an off the shelf boost converter and running side by side tests on some batteries and showing the results.  With known numbers like the off the shelf boost converter's efficiency it should correlate to the type of effects the batteriser would have on stuff.

[EEVblog]

And no VC in their right mind is going to fund them -

SK Telecom already did. Up to $1MM USD.

Citations...?
Edit: Don't worry, I found it - google is my friend.
Edit2: And that was back in March. This is more proof that the $30,000 IndieGoGo thing is only being done for nefarious reasons.

Yes, they got that VC funding back March, before this thing hit the fan with the infamous PC World article on June 1st.

[SL4P]

This is a problem. It needs to stop. It's a discredit to the profession. The Roohparvar brothers are the collective Dr. Oz of electrical engineering.

I was thinking 'the Richard Simmons' of Elec Eng...!

[Fungus]

whatever time the Garmin can run on a set of batteries in this test, it's not 1:1 comparable with real live experience.

Correct, but that's not what's being measured here.

2) About the finger:
Knowing Garmin software, the device could ask "Are you indoors?" or something like that after a minute or so without reception. I think they need this force the GPS receiver to stay active

Yep, the finger is very suspicious here. Obviously part of the cheat in some way.

4) Running at full power for 10 hours with the batteriser against only 1.5 or 2 hours without is still a huge plus for the batteriser IMHO. ->Which is for me is a big reason to believe something else/something more is going on.

Well...it would be if they weren't cheating.

But they are.

But at the end it isjust a waste of time speculating how the got their nice results.

No it isn't.

Only independent tests can tell what the batteriser (or just the technology)  is capable off. And the fact we don't see that should say enough.

Nope. Anybody can prove that battery powered devices generally use up at least 80% of the power in the battery. The other 10-20% is usually left there for a reason (eg. fully discharging rechargeables is bad for them).

Your statement would be valid if Batteriser were claiming 10-20% more, but they aren't.

(And the batteriser isn't 100% efficient so it's much more more likely to be 10-20% less on most devices)

[Fungus]

Yes, they got that VC funding back March, before this thing hit the fan with the infamous PC World article on June 1st.

I can't find the $1 million figure anywhere but if it's true it's just more proof that the whole IndieGoGo thing is just part of a bigger scam.