REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol

[EV]

So we need to get two extra buttons somewhere!   

[marmad]

So we need to get two extra buttons somewhere!   

With the new firmware, this has gotten me curious as to whether shorting the 'Source' button position will pop-out the AWG side menu... perhaps it's time to finally open my DSO. 

[Teneyes]

And the Metal case is Ready for BNC outputs,
But does Not look like an Add-on board 
[

[bonanz]

So we need to get two extra buttons somewhere!   

With the new firmware, this has gotten me curious as to whether shorting the 'Source' button position will pop-out the AWG side menu... perhaps it's time to finally open my DSO. 

do it 

[EV]

And the Metal case is Ready for BNC outputs,
But does Not look like an Add-on board 

Now must be discovered where to connect the cables!

[Hydrawerk]

Not only are there holes in the front panel for the two buttons, the keypad PCB is already laid out for the two additional (illuminated) buttons:

I like the metal encoder spindles. 

[Jason]

I'm intrigued by those SPI pins.  Has anyone tried using them?

[Evi]

Strange thing. When my scope arrived I of course made self-calibration and lost all trials. But yesterday I switched it on and suddenly saw all trial with the time left about 1200min. It was no any actions from my side. Then I update the device to 01.00.00.00.03 and all tials were kept.
 
BTW. Does anybody succeed with Rigol support. I sent numerous mails to support@rigol.com and from the feedback form from Customer Center. It seems they are in permanent meditation or dead.

[MikeR]

Are you able to obtain waveform data that is 2GS/sec ? Everything Ive tried results in a file containing 1GS/Sec data. Ive set horizontal to max, memory depth to 56Mpoints, 14, 1.4, aliasing on and off - scope says 2GS/Sec on the display but always outputs 1GS/sec to the wavefile. Acquire mode is normal. 

To check the scope. It "seems" to be sampling at 2GS/sec. I generated a 10 - 950 Mhz sine wave sweep at -20dBm and it displayed it on the FFT. Its a bit iffy above 200 Mhz. 

What I did, Capture an antenna with broadcast FM present at 2GS/sec, loaded that into baudline and checked the position of the stations. None of the saved files were recorded at 2GS/sec, all were 1GS/sec.

My model is the DS2072. Firmware 0.0.1 according to the LXi welcome page.
Buggy firmware ?

-Mike.

[marmad]

Are you able to obtain waveform data that is 2GS/sec ? Everything Ive tried results in a file containing 1GS/Sec data. Ive set horizontal to max, memory depth to 56Mpoints, 14, 1.4, aliasing on and off - scope says 2GS/Sec on the display but always outputs 1GS/sec to the wavefile. Acquire mode is normal.

To check the scope. It "seems" to be sampling at 2GS/sec. I generated a 10 - 950 Mhz sine wave sweep at -20dBm and it displayed it on the FFT. Its a bit iffy above 200 Mhz.

To check the sampling rate, all you have to do is STOP acquiring when it displays '2GSs/s', then change the timebase to the smallest possible (e.g. 5ns), switch 'Display' -> 'Vectors' to 'Dots', then count the actual sample points. 2GSa/s means a 500ps acquire time for the ADC, so at 5ns/div, you should see 10 dots per div. If you don't, then I would imagine you have a technical problem.

[Hydrawerk]

Well, at Agilent DSOX2002A you cannot set dots. Rigol is better at this. 

[marmad]

BTW. Does anybody succeed with Rigol support. I sent numerous mails to support@rigol.com and from the feedback form from Customer Center. It seems they are in permanent meditation or dead.

From what I've read, people have had varying levels of success. In some areas, it seems Rigol is quick and responsive to their customers - in other areas, not so much. I've had success communicating to Rigol through my dealer - which is sometimes the better path to take than directly.

[MikeR]

Are you able to obtain waveform data that is 2GS/sec ? Everything Ive tried results in a file containing 1GS/Sec data. Ive set horizontal to max, memory depth to 56Mpoints, 14, 1.4, aliasing on and off - scope says 2GS/Sec on the display but always outputs 1GS/sec to the wavefile. Acquire mode is normal.

To check the scope. It "seems" to be sampling at 2GS/sec. I generated a 10 - 950 Mhz sine wave sweep at -20dBm and it displayed it on the FFT. Its a bit iffy above 200 Mhz.

To check the sampling rate, all you have to do is STOP acquiring when it displays '2GSs/s', then change the timebase to the smallest possible (e.g. 5ns), switch 'Display' -> 'Vectors' to 'Dots', then count the actual sample points. 2GSa/s means a 500ps acquire time for the ADC, so at 5ns/div, you should see 10 dots per div. If you don't, then I would imagine you have a technical problem.

The scope is sampling at 2GS/Sec single channel dual its 1GS/Sec. At 2GS/sec 10 dots are show after single run at 5ns. It will easily display e.g a 400 Mhz sine wave. The problem is the scope doesn't save that 2GS/sec capture to the wfm file. Theres decimation going on and it saves 1 Gs/Sec data. (Which is still a 500Mhz spectral chunk)

Theres two possibilities, 1. the scope does decimate and saves 1GS/sec waves, or 2. the tool Im using to view the waveform is parsing the binary data incorrectly. I noticed the wfm file for the DS2072 isnt the same as the DS1052E. It contains preamble. Either case Ill check with the baudline author.


-Mike.


 

[marmad]

Theres two possibilities, 1. the scope does decimate and saves 1GS/sec waves, or 2. the tool Im using to view the waveform is parsing the binary data incorrectly. I noticed the wfm file for the DS2072 isnt the same as the DS1052E. It contains preamble. Either case Ill check with the baudline author.

I'm guessing it's almost certainly #2 - there wouldn't be any logical reason for #1 (except a bug). And yes, the WFM format has been drastically changed - and there is no published documentation about it - typical Rigol/Chinese behavior which pisses me off. And they appear to have changed it even some more in the latest firmware version (01.00.00.03)!

We are currently working on documenting the format - so that conversion routines can be written.

BTW, if you want to know what version of firmware you're running, you need to use a specific sequence of buttons. Read the instructions at the bottom of this post.

[Evi]

BTW. Does anybody succeed with Rigol support. I sent numerous mails to support@rigol.com and from the feedback form from Customer Center. It seems they are in permanent meditation or dead.

From what I've read, people have had varying levels of success. In some areas, it seems Rigol is quick and responsive to their customers - in other areas, not so much. I've had success communicating to Rigol through my dealer - which is sometimes the better path to take than directly.

Thanks for answer, marmad.
Yes it is. I got all the help from Anna Lewandowska from Testwall. But it seems not to be a good way to disturb her any time I need assistance. She already spent a lot of  time and efforts to deliver the device from Ireland to Moscow. DHL service is absolutely inadequate in my country.

So, if I am a registered customer, why I could not get the support from the only place where I registered?
BTW. They suggest me to visit their Munich office

[marmad]

So, if I am a registered customer, why I could not get the support from the only place where I registered?
BTW. They suggest me to visit their Munich office

Well, that's one reason the Rigol (and Hantek and Owon and Siglent) threads are so numerous (and often large) in this forum - because we (the owners/users of the equipment) are offering support to each other to make up for a deficiency from the manufacturers. If the Chinese companies provided better documentation and software for their devices - as well as a speedy, reasonable level of after-sales support, many of us would probably spend a lot less time here 

[Evi]

Well, that's one reason the Rigol (and Hantek and Owon and Siglent) threads are so numerous (and often large) in this forum - because we (the owners/users of the equipment) are offering support to each other to make up for a deficiency from the manufacturers. If the Chinese companies provided better documentation and software for their devices - as well as a speedy, reasonable level of after-sales support, many of us would probably spend a lot less time here 

I do agree, Mark. But if so, why not to make a separate topic for FW updates to put there FW files. Because now everybody here need each time to ask his dealer for help.

[MikeR]

Theres two possibilities, 1. the scope does decimate and saves 1GS/sec waves, or 2. the tool Im using to view the waveform is parsing the binary data incorrectly. I noticed the wfm file for the DS2072 isnt the same as the DS1052E. It contains preamble. Either case Ill check with the baudline author.

I'm guessing it's almost certainly #2 - there wouldn't be any logical reason for #1 (except a bug). And yes, the WFM format has been drastically changed - and there is no published documentation about it - typical Rigol/Chinese behavior which pisses me off. And they appear to have changed it even some more in the latest firmware version (01.00.00.03)!

We are currently working on documenting the format - so that conversion routines can be written.

BTW, if you want to know what version of firmware you're running, you need to use a specific sequence of buttons. Read the instructions at the bottom of this post.

Hi,
   I have 00.00.01.00.05 Software, Hardware is 1.0.1.0.0, rest I guess isnt important? - The proceedure you give for obtaining the information is part of the calibration routines - I ended up in channel gain menu 

/not related to the wfm parsing,
The 01.00.05 firmware locksup with RAW reads even in stop mode, currently Im resorting to reading the display data and processing that. Not ideal - Thats already on the forum and theres a test app, not good for me since I dont use windows at all, I used rigolterm and the scope crashed with manual / basic command  entry.

The dealer sent me the latest firmware 00.01.00.00.03 together with the DS2000 programming guide dated July 2012. Fine for usb control (if raw worked, need to double check the commands while in the same room as the scope.)

Im also aware the firmware update proceedure is a little more involved, will check that.

Somewhat related:-

http://www.urlme.net/blog/?p=2031

The dual channel example is from a TEK TDS1012B scope.

-Anyhow the .wfm file format is rather odd, baudline is able to parse unsigned bytes easily - it will display the spectrum showing e.g radio channels in the right places but only for sample rates set to 1GS/Sec, the file was captured at 2GS/sec, if I load that setting the sample rate accordingly they are in the wrong "spot" suggesting the original data isnt 2GS/sec.

I will make a file with e.g 100 MHz marker (via sig gen) & capture it to investigate the file further.

Regarding other comments: We gain in hardware what we loose in documentation...

Batronix have been fast and friendly but ultimately must also resort to emailing Rigol...

[tequipment]

The 2072 is less because its the entry price.  Its made to grab attention.  The insides should be the same.
Evan Cirelli

TEquipment.NET

[olsenn]

Are you saying the DS2072 is same hardware as DS2200 and only needs sofware to get 200MHz bandwidth 

Since the DS1052E/DS1102E fiasco started on this site, Rigol has spent some time beefing up their security when it comes to unlocking features of their hardware. True, stopping the clock in their DS2000/DS4000 and possibly some other embedded devices of theirs can prevent some trial options from expiring, but the codes for unlocking said features are encrypted quite strongly and I don't imagine buying a DS2072 hoping a hack will eventually appear is a very safe decision. Always make sure the decice you are buying, AS YOU ARE BUYING IT, is capable of doing what you need. If additional features become available over time, then that is a perk.

Coal is made of the same stuff as diamond; try explaining that to your wife on her birthday!

[tequipment]

Im not 100% sure, I'll find out BUT this is very common in most scope lines.

So most of the time yes this is true BUT they dont give out software to upgrade them.

here is an example of a power supply with many features unlocked with a key:
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDP832.html


Thanks
Evan

[MikeR]

The insides should be the same.
Evan Cirelli,, sales team, VP and co-founder of  TEquipment.NET

  Hi Evan ,
  Are you saying the DS2072 is same hardware as DS2200 and only needs software to get 200MHz bandwidth? 

Software probably helps, heres some measurements I made with my "stock" DS2072:
Generator Marconi 2022E - I checked it over the span via (a real) spectrum analyzer, signal dropped max  -1.5dB at 400Mhz. then climbed back to -1dB vs the reference -40dBm.
 
Heres a plot of the DS2072, captured via usbtmc piped into baudline, Hz = Mhz in this case. Waveform averaging is enabled vertical at 2mV/div. 2GS/Sec sampling.

Reference is -40 dBm (which corresponds to -32dB in the graph since thats full scale digital)

The 3dB'ish point is 70Mhz - then I carried on to 800 Mhz.
800 Mhz is -33 dB down.
400 -15dB
200 about -8dB
100 -5dB
50 -0.35 dB
10 is the refefence at -32 dB which corresponds to the Generators -40 dB signal (hence add 8dB the level to get dbm)

All total nonsense.

[MikeR]

Heres a plot of the DS2072, captured via usbtmc piped into baudline, Hz = Mhz in this case. Waveform averaging is enabled vertical at 2mV/div. 2GS/Sec sampling.


All total nonsense.

 @MikeR
What was your time base set at? (100ns/div?)
Probably
Was the frequency generator sweeping?
No manual stepping at 10Mhz
Does Baudline use multiple display waveforms or just just one?
It supports multiple inputs and channels. From STDIN, the channel data needs to be interleaved
chan1,chan2, etc

The Averaging by the Ds2072 during a sweep must have an affect.
It will, the longer dwell per step increases the snr due to the averaging, the steps here were
roughly timed to be similar - but not perfect hence my last comment.

The time base setting will affect the number of Samples and thus your data used by baudline
I now realize this thanks to your help.
-Cheers,

[Ghydda]

Got mine today. I am a happy camper


My stats out of the box:

Software version: 00.00.01.00.05
Hardware version: 1.0.1.0.0
FPGA version:
   SPU 03.01.02
   WPU 00.06.00
   CCU 12.29.00
   MCU 00.05

According to the documentation the unit was calibrated on February 19th 2013.

[marmad]

-Anyhow the .wfm file format is rather odd, baudline is able to parse unsigned bytes easily - it will display the spectrum showing e.g radio channels in the right places but only for sample rates set to 1GS/Sec, the file was captured at 2GS/sec, if I load that setting the sample rate accordingly they are in the wrong "spot" suggesting the original data isnt 2GS/sec.

Why would this be your conclusion? That equipment programmed to write it's own invented file format isn't doing it correctly? But that the third party software IS reading the file correctly?

As I mentioned already, the format described in wfm_view and other online sources for the DS1000 series is not valid anymore. The locations in the header of pertinent information (sample rate, sample size, etc) - and the manner in which the DSO stores sample data has been altered quite substantially. It's likely that with 2GSa/s the Rigol is storing the data in a different fashion than with 1GSa/s - since the 2GSa/s setting was not available in the DS1000 series. No one has published specs on the new format yet - or written any readers. My Rigol doesn't have any problems writing - and then later reading - a 2GSa/s WFM file - so clearly the fault is in the software. So, instead of claiming, as you did first, that the Rigol wasn't sampling at 2GSa/s - or secondly, that the Rigol isn't writing the 2GSa/s to the file (both of which are easy to prove otherwise) - you should be studying the new format and discovering the changes so that you can get Baudline to work correctly.