Author Topic: Betelgeuse the star  (Read 7869 times)

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Offline cleanworkbenchTopic starter

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Betelgeuse the star
« on: January 24, 2020, 04:39:08 pm »
What,s going on with this star Betelgeuse  , went outside my door last evening and its disappeared , big bang or what ?.
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2020, 05:05:43 pm »
It would be awesome if it did, but quite unlikely.

We will detect neutrinos first before anything in visible light, so hopefully we would get a heads up. The initial explosion causes a "small" flash, the real brightness occurs for several days afterwards as the resulting gas cloud radiates.
Bob
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Offline edy

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2020, 05:11:42 pm »
Let's just hope it's ejection beam isn't pointed directly at us. :-)  Is there any way to figure out the rotation axis of that star, or any distant star for that matter? Star Wars Death Star planet-killer comes to mind.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 05:13:49 pm by edy »
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Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2020, 05:13:22 pm »
Wait and find out? :)

Bob
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Offline jaromir

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2020, 07:32:03 pm »
Most astronomers expects Betelgeuse to go supernovae in (astronomically) very very short time, perhaps 50 or 100 thousands of years.
 
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Offline IanB

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2020, 07:37:01 pm »
What,s going on with this star Betelgeuse  , went outside my door last evening and its disappeared , big bang or what ?.

Observations have shown it getting dimmer recently. Nobody knows why.

Most astronomers expects Betelgeuse to go supernovae in (astronomically) very very short time, perhaps 50 or 100 thousands of years.

Apparently some recent research suggests Betelgeuse may be different than first supposed and as such would be very stable and not likely to explode after all.
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2020, 07:43:35 pm »
Let's just hope it's ejection beam isn't pointed directly at us. :-)  Is there any way to figure out the rotation axis of that star, or any distant star for that matter? Star Wars Death Star planet-killer comes to mind.
Yes, it is nearly 90 degrees to us, so no worry.  That issue was thought of a long time ago and checked.

But, yes, while Betelgeuse is a known variable, in the last several hundred years of observation, it has NEVER dimmed anywhere this far.
"Something" is definitely up with it!

Jon
 

Offline jaromir

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2020, 07:52:30 pm »
Just to illustrate the thing, here is light curve of Betelgeuse - that is graph of apparent magnitude versus time.
It's red giant variable star, with main period of roughly 180 days. Currently its apparent magnitude is somehow similar to Bellatrix in right shoulder of Orion constellation.
I'm not holding my breath.
 
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Offline David Hess

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Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2020, 10:36:37 pm »
Maybe Betelgeuse shines normally, but we are witnessing the born of a Type II civilization.
;D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale


Offline David Hess

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2020, 11:20:07 pm »
Maybe Betelgeuse shines normally, but we are witnessing the born of a Type II civilization.
;D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

That would be doubly impressive around a star the size of Betelgeuse.  I think we can discount that possibility because nobody would be dumb enough to use a star so close to the end of its life.  Could that be why we cannot find as many red dwarfs as there should be?

 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2020, 11:26:58 pm »
Well, I would practice on a nearby star first, instead of our own. You know, just in case something "goes wrong" :)
Bob
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Offline edy

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Offline Gyro

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2020, 11:20:55 am »
I know a Dyson sphere is all about maximising energy capture but the thing I've never got is what do you do with the actual people?  :-//

Planetary atmosphere is held on by gravity. The 'floor' of a Dyson Sphere (necessarily) doesn't have enough mass to hold an atmosphere on the inside, the strongest gravitational force is generated by the star itself. Exit atmosphere, the same applies to objects and people!

You could make the sphere double walled with living quarters between (a pretty miserable existence) but again where do you get workable gravity. The Star's gravity wouldn't be enough to hold you comfortably to the inner floor.

You can't spin a sphere... well you can, but not in any way that equalizes centripetal force over the surface - there's going to be an awful lot of unusable uphill, both for atmosphere and ability to walk up it.

Now Larry Niven's Ringworld (or a Dyson ring) I do get. You can spin it at a sensible speed to generate 'gravity' and retan the atmosphere between high rim walls. Of course you still have to worry about maintaining stability etc. but at least you have somewhere to put your population. And people won't blunder into you in the dark.

Dyson sphere: There, finished it! Err, who turned the light out?..... Damn!
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2020, 12:43:24 pm »
Betelgeuse is (was?) a Giant, but not particularly Hot. There is no particular reason why
it's mass should 'collapse' into a Super Nova etc. (Of course it may have died out a long time ago!).
Our own gaseous 'Jupiter' could/should have been another 'Sun' but wasn't big enough to 'ignite'.
Farewell Betelgeuse!!!   :scared:
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2020, 11:00:08 am »
Betelgeuse is (was?) a Giant, but not particularly Hot. There is no particular reason why
it's mass should 'collapse' into a Super Nova etc. (Of course it may have died out a long time ago!).

Betelgeuse is in its helium burning stage so its core is very hot and small which is why the outer envelope is so large.  There is every reason to expect it to become a supernova and produce a neutron star in the next 100,000 years at the soonest but consider that that is 50 times longer than recorded history so do not hold your breath waiting for it.

Quote
Our own gaseous 'Jupiter' could/should have been another 'Sun' but wasn't big enough to 'ignite'.

Jupiter is not even large enough to be a brown dwarf which can be distinguished by lack of lithium which gets fused in a significantly larger gas giant.
 

Offline iMo

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2020, 12:10:54 pm »
It would be great if it explodes next weeks. I always wanted to see exploding supernova..  8)
CNN wrote they detected gravitational waves 2w back.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/25/world/betelgeuse-star-dimming-scn-trnd/index.html
Quote
Then, LIGO, the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory, detected gravitational waves on January 14 that seemed to come from the direction of Orion.
Does the LIGO detector actually work reliably?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2020, 12:31:34 pm »
It would be great if it explodes next weeks. I always wanted to see exploding supernova..  8)
Same here. Would be awesome if it is close enough to get a bit of summer in the winter  :popcorn:
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2020, 01:13:50 pm »
Mmmmmm gamma ray burst. Makes my bones smell like burning. Good tan though (on my bones that is).
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

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Offline Gyro

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2020, 01:46:48 pm »
It would be great if it explodes next weeks. I always wanted to see exploding supernova..  8)
Same here. Would be awesome if it is close enough to get a bit of summer in the winter  :popcorn:

Well I hope it waits until it stops raining and we have clear skies - June would be about right!  :D
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline iMo

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2020, 08:23:28 pm »
It is 700ly off, problems for us start at 50ly and less, afaik..
From April up it moves closer to Sun, we will see nothing.
 
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Online Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2020, 08:16:09 am »
Now Larry Niven's Ringworld (or a Dyson ring) I do get. You can spin it at a sensible speed to generate 'gravity' and retan the atmosphere between high rim walls. Of course you still have to worry about maintaining stability etc. but at least you have somewhere to put your population. And people won't blunder into you in the dark.

Well sure, except for the non-existent materials and need for stabilizers... But you put enough Protectors on the job I guess they'll find solutions.
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Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2020, 07:28:34 pm »
Any civilization that could put a shell around a star could solve trivial problems like this.  Keeping the atmosphere in just means making two shells two hundred kilometers apart or so.  And then find enough gas to fill the space.  Or maybe just make an earth sized bump on a stick with spin bearings to let it turn once every day or so.  There would be room on the inside of the sphere to put many thousand such bumps with PLENTY of elbow room between them.

Don't have to worry about us humans pulling off something like that for a long, long time.  Even if we do hit the "singularity".
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2020, 09:20:04 pm »
Now Larry Niven's Ringworld (or a Dyson ring) I do get. You can spin it at a sensible speed to generate 'gravity' and retan the atmosphere between high rim walls. Of course you still have to worry about maintaining stability etc. but at least you have somewhere to put your population. And people won't blunder into you in the dark.

Well sure, except for the non-existent materials and need for stabilizers... But you put enough Protectors on the job I guess they'll find solutions.

I seem to remember that in "Ringworld: Engineers" it was found that the Ringworld was unstable because natives stupidly dismantled the attitude jets on the rim walls, throwing the Protectors into a frenzy to save the remaining inhabitants.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Betelgeuse the star
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2020, 11:08:52 pm »
Now you guys have done it. I'm gonna have to drag all my old Niven books out of storage and read 'em again.
 
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