Author Topic: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?  (Read 242315 times)

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Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #900 on: September 20, 2023, 03:52:17 pm »
I was soldering on a pre-heating board today, the PCB was touching the plates and I could hear some buzzing noise from where it was touching the plate when I was soldering. I love this iron but I am not impressed by the design so far.

Ooooooooh, I remember something....... can you try touching the connector at the main unit with the metal ring of the handle while a tip is inserted? I bet you'll hear that buzzing noise as well... I think I had mentioned that somewhere in the thread but can't find it right now

EDIT: found it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4417474/#msg4417474
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 03:59:22 pm by c0d3z3r0 »
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline mebel

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #901 on: September 20, 2023, 05:47:53 pm »

Sounds like a connection issue, broken cable maybe

The seller send me new handle and that didn't help. Then he send me new motherboard but I didn't replaced it yet.
 

Offline tony359

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #902 on: September 20, 2023, 10:35:06 pm »

Ooooooooh, I remember something....... can you try touching the connector at the main unit with the metal ring of the handle while a tip is inserted? I bet you'll hear that buzzing noise as well... I think I had mentioned that somewhere in the thread but can't find it right now

EDIT: found it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg4417474/#msg4417474

Someone on the other thread mentioned that post and it's where I started thinking that what I am observing is by design.

Yes, indeed it buzzes when I touch the metal case of the front connector. I don't see much voltage between the tip and the two things though. But it could be it's a very high frequency and the multimeter is not picking it up fully.
 

Offline mebel

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #903 on: September 21, 2023, 04:52:05 am »


The signal between metal ring of the handle and main unit ( handle socket) looks like this.
 

Offline tony359

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #904 on: September 21, 2023, 10:20:58 am »
Aren't 4V a bit eccessive to see there?
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #905 on: September 21, 2023, 12:05:11 pm »
https://taaralabs.eu/tag/t245/

Quote
Large ceramic input capacitor is smaller than electrolytic capacitor with same values would be but the ceramic capacitor “sings” audibly

Hmmmmm.....
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline tony359

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #906 on: September 21, 2023, 12:51:06 pm »
interesting. But the buzzing I am hearing come from the handle (or in the aforementioned case when the handle touches the front connector shell). I don't hear much from the station or very little.
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #907 on: September 21, 2023, 04:59:28 pm »
interesting. But the buzzing I am hearing come from the handle (or in the aforementioned case when the handle touches the front connector shell). I don't hear much from the station or very little.

Well, maybe the connectors inside the handle touching the tip are cause the same effect like touching the main connector with the handle?
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline tony359

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #908 on: September 21, 2023, 11:18:16 pm »
Yes I suspect so.
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #909 on: September 22, 2023, 09:30:11 am »
I wonder why they use PWM (or "high" frequency pulses) anyways. Yes, it's the first thing that comes to mind but that heater is sluggish so a timed pulse without PWM should do the job as well. That *might* solve the buzzing issue.
Somewhere I read that for the JBC tips a 10ms pulse would mean 1 degree increase. (Maybe it was for T12 but we can try out for T245) For 350°C one needs to heat for t = 10ms * (350 - T_cold) -> roughly 3,3s in the first place and then keep the temperature in the same way. Probably that's actually what the firmware does but with PWM enabled.

I didn't check yet how a) genuine JBC stations and b) other stations like unisolder do it. May be worth taking a look and in a first step patch out PWM in the T3A firmware. (... and hopefully not cause the thing to catch fire lol)
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline drksy

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #910 on: September 23, 2023, 11:40:31 pm »
After an hour of combat with the pesky glass screen, I have been defeated.



Managed to destroy my prying tools and crack the screen. There is just no room for any tool to get under the glass and pry it off. The way it's installed, the case forms a lip that encompasses the glass, making it impossible to get under it with any prying tool. The suction cup was just hopeless given how strong the bonding material is, even after being heated all the way to 250C. I measured the glass to be about 1mm thick, with the spacing between glass border and the case lip about 1/10 of a mm. Good luck sliding anything under from around the glass. You need a MEGA suction cup and an astronomical force to pry it off without damage.

The good news is that the seller said he will send me a replacement glass cover. So I'll be waiting for that.

In the meantime, now that the damn thing is open, I'm gonna head over to the lab to see how far I can get in debugging the buzzing issue. Ironically, I'll need a proper soldering iron to work on this one.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 11:53:08 pm by drksy »
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #911 on: September 24, 2023, 12:38:45 am »
yes but those pry tools are meant for other tasks. there are far more appropriate adjacent category of tools which is basically (in effect) 0.1mm shim stainless steel (or a similar thickness +-), with a handle attached.

and while your hot air says 250c i would consider also some possibility of uncertainties depending what machine it was. since sometimes the reported number on the display is not actually the truth. but even so, the pry tool is already known to be insufficient for this challenge... as you clearly already found out!

what i would say is that even with a correct types of metal prying tools then it's still some degree of risk, and a bit tough task, but also certainly not outside the typical smartphones repair doctrines. and several of us have successfully removed it. although at least 1 guy reported chipping the corner of the glass (i didn't)

learn to improve tools and techniques  :-//
practice on old / dead smartphones  :-//
 

Offline drksy

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #912 on: September 24, 2023, 07:30:32 am »
what i would say is that even with a correct types of metal prying tools then it's still some degree of risk, and a bit tough task, but also certainly not outside the typical smartphones repair doctrines. and several of us have successfully removed it. although at least 1 guy reported chipping the corner of the glass (i didn't)
I have no doubt that you are among the skilled few who possesses the prying expertise to get the silly glass off. I have never repaired a phone nor did I ever want to (except when my note 4 broke, which I broke that screen too, but that's a story for another time). For the rest of us mere mortals, it's unconscionable to make the Aixun so hard to repair for the average person and diyer, who arguably, is the target market for it given its price category.

Anyways, today, I finally got around to doing some experiments to pinpoint the cause of the buzzing. I started by isolating the control board from everything else:
 - power coming directly from the bench supply soldered to the power pins on the board
 - wires soldered directly to the pcb and connected to the cartridge as it's held mid-air to take out any influence of poor connections from the handle




The result? The control board was buzzing on its own! I have to say though, it's a faint buzzing sound, but if you put your ear next to the PCB, certainly discernible.

At this point, I'm starting to suspect all Aixun's buzz by design. And that most users don't really notice it because it is a really faint buzzing. But you would hear it if you put your ears close to the handle or the case, or when the room is quiet. I'm curious if someone with a "silent" Aixun can test this theory.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 07:45:04 am by drksy »
 
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Offline tony359

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #913 on: September 24, 2023, 08:35:22 am »
At this point, I'm starting to suspect all Aixun's buzz by design. And that most users don't really notice it because it is a really faint buzzing. But you would hear it if you put your ears close to the handle or the case, or when the room is quiet. I'm curious if someone with a "silent" Aixun can test this theory.

This is my guessing too. The way the circuit works has buzzing noise as a consequence but not everybody notices that. Also some units might be more prone to buzzing for mechanical tolerances. And finally, I noticed 1.33 buzzes louder than 1.34 so it also depends on how the element is driver I guess.

Thanks for the analysis, really cool to see!
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #914 on: September 24, 2023, 11:08:21 am »
After an hour of combat with the pesky glass screen, I have been defeated.

Managed to destroy my prying tools and crack the screen. There is just no room for any tool to get under the glass and pry it off. The way it's installed, the case forms a lip that encompasses the glass, making it impossible to get under it with any prying tool. The suction cup was just hopeless given how strong the bonding material is, even after being heated all the way to 250C. I measured the glass to be about 1mm thick, with the spacing between glass border and the case lip about 1/10 of a mm. Good luck sliding anything under from around the glass. You need a MEGA suction cup and an astronomical force to pry it off without damage.

The good news is that the seller said he will send me a replacement glass cover. So I'll be waiting for that.

In the meantime, now that the damn thing is open, I'm gonna head over to the lab to see how far I can get in debugging the buzzing issue. Ironically, I'll need a proper soldering iron to work on this one.

Ouch. Well, but that's what I suspected earlier... heating time > heating temperature. Regarding prying tools, there are tools that are way thinner https://www.amazon.de/MMOBIEL-Ultra-Thin-professionelles-gebogenes-%C3%96ffnungswerkzeug/dp/B08XZH2XMR
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #915 on: September 24, 2023, 11:14:59 am »
The way the circuit works has buzzing noise as a consequence but not everybody notices that. Also some units might be more prone to buzzing for mechanical tolerances. And finally, I noticed 1.33 buzzes louder than 1.34 so it also depends on how the element is driver I guess.

Thanks for the analysis, really cool to see!

Yes, yes and yes. And also there are multiple things buzzing. At least we know that the control board and the handle are buzzing. Then we have that weird buzzing when the handle metal ring touches GND/connector. And the third thing: I realized that my SMPS is buzzing as well, not too loud, though
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline drksy

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #916 on: September 24, 2023, 04:56:05 pm »
Yes, yes and yes. And also there are multiple things buzzing. At least we know that the control board and the handle are buzzing. Then we have that weird buzzing when the handle metal ring touches GND/connector. And the third thing: I realized that my SMPS is buzzing as well, not too loud, though

I wonder if there's a way to make this circuit softer



So that the edge of PWM



looks more like this



The sharp edge switching 150W at high frequency is probably causing a ton of EMI and mechanical vibration which is probably what we are hearing. I don't mind losing some power in the switching MOSFET, as long as I get rid of buzzing and/or mechanical stress to the whole circuit.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 04:59:34 pm by drksy »
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #917 on: September 24, 2023, 05:00:34 pm »
Yes, yes and yes. And also there are multiple things buzzing. At least we know that the control board and the handle are buzzing. Then we have that weird buzzing when the handle metal ring touches GND/connector. And the third thing: I realized that my SMPS is buzzing as well, not too loud, though

I wonder if there's a way to make this circuit softer



So that the edge of PWM


looks more like this


The sharp edge switching 150W at high frequency is probably causing a ton of EMI and mechanical vibration which is probably what we are hearing. I don't mind losing some power in the switching MOSFET, as long as I get rid of buzzing and/or mechanical stress to the whole circuit.

Yeah well, check out my post earlier: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/any-opinions-on-the-aixun-t3a/msg5073184/#msg5073184
I don't think PWM is required at all
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline drksy

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #918 on: September 24, 2023, 06:07:22 pm »
I don't think PWM is required at all

Right, but I'm thinking about modifying the Aixun in its current form to solve the buzzing problem. The current firmware uses the PWM, so there's not much choice there. But if the edges of the PWM become softer, either pre switching via LPF on Q4, or post switching via an inductor or such, maybe there is hope of lowering the sudden change in magnetic fields that causes vibrations.
 

Offline drksy

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #919 on: September 24, 2023, 06:51:42 pm »
For example, look at the way Unisolder does this:



There is a low-pass filter consisting of R6 and C85 on the gate of the switching MOSFET. Furthermore, the NPN (Q4) driving the gate has its own low pass filter via R17 and C10.
 
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Offline mebel

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #920 on: September 24, 2023, 08:21:01 pm »
I managed to remove the front panel glass with 140 C degrees (PG8018lcd with narrow nozzle) and standard metal 0,2mm prying tool.
Aixun should mount the panel by screws not by tons of strong glue.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 08:40:41 pm by mebel »
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #921 on: September 24, 2023, 09:07:49 pm »
I don't think PWM is required at all

Right, but I'm thinking about modifying the Aixun in its current form to solve the buzzing problem. The current firmware uses the PWM, so there's not much choice there. But if the edges of the PWM become softer, either pre switching via LPF on Q4, or post switching via an inductor or such, maybe there is hope of lowering the sudden change in magnetic fields that causes vibrations.

Firmware can be patched, just like I did for the different LCD ;) And if it's working without PWM, maybe Aixun follows our recommendation. However, currently I don't have the time to test this.
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #922 on: September 24, 2023, 09:08:30 pm »
I managed to remove the front panel glass with 140 C degrees (PG8018lcd with narrow nozzle) and standard metal 0,2mm prying tool.
Aixun should mount the panel by screws not by tons of strong glue.

They don't want you to open it :P
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline c0d3z3r0

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #923 on: September 24, 2023, 09:10:49 pm »
For example, look at the way Unisolder does this:



There is a low-pass filter consisting of R6 and C85 on the gate of the switching MOSFET. Furthermore, the NPN (Q4) driving the gate has its own low pass filter via R17 and C10.

Do they use PWM? If yes, what frequency?

EDIT: Oh, they use/recommend AC. How do we know it doesn't have the same issues with DC?  https://github.com/valerionew/unisolder-notes#power-supply
EDIT2: Hmm, AC is rectified... https://github.com/sparkybg/UniSolder-5.2/blob/main/schematics/5.2C/UniSolder5.2C_back.pdf
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 09:23:14 pm by c0d3z3r0 »
AiXun T3A reverse engineering: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3a_rev
AiXun T3x F(L)OSS update tool: https://github.com/c0d3z3r0/aixun_t3x_updater
 

Offline drksy

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Re: Any opinions on the AiXun T3A?
« Reply #924 on: September 24, 2023, 11:07:21 pm »
Do they use PWM? If yes, what frequency?

It looks like they do: https://github.com/sparkybg/UniSolder-5.2/blob/main/software/front/US_Firmware.X/PID.c#L340. Their PID controller is adjusting a duty cycle in the end. I don't know what their frequency though, It's not clear from their github.
 


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