Getting a qualification through work

[Simon]

Hello David, yes thank you. It is a bit frustrating. When i see a young subcontractor make one cock up after another despite having qualifications (I would assume or in the UK you can't get a job) that I have to fix despite not having any yet when I try to get a qualification I hit a blank wall despite all the political rhetoric about promoting engineering and in work study to "get Britain moving". It seems our politicians think that everything in this country is mechanical and welded and the fact that anything that moves and is controlled has underlying electronics escapes them.

I have found: http://www.logis-tech-assoc.co.uk/hnc-electrical-electronics-modules-edexcel/ but to be honest I'm not overly reassured by the quality of their website and take it as sign of how competent a course provider they are but I might be wrong it could be they are a great company that just can't get web design right (try the home page button......)

What I don't want to do is get on a course from some 2 bit company and then find I get no support or quality of material is crap and I fail. I don't have time to waste as I'll have to do it in my own time despite running my own business too which I am not giving up because the qualification only has something in it for me in the fact that as a self employed person I can tender my services as a qualified person.

[djsb]

Maybe you could suggest to that your company gets involved in this?

http://www.netpengineering.co.uk/

Problem is you could only get involved in this if you where already doing a degree at Northampton. Then you'd go on a 12 month placement/internship at a company that is partnered with the university.

They do the same where I work. The students dissappear for 12 months on a placement/internship, come back for a year and are often offered a job where they worked. It's all kinds of companies (Dyson, McLaren, Rolls Royce and small ones).

I don't know how it works out for mature students as they seem to be declining because of the costs involved.

David.

[Codemonkey]

all I can do is a HNC and still need the nod to get into that with no previous qualifications.

You need to do the ONC first, before the HNC. You stand absolutely no chance of walking straight into a HNC course without having done the ONC first, not just cos they won't let you, more cos you need to know all the stuff from the ONC first!

I don't know where you're based, but I did mine at Chesterfield College of Technology & Arts. Now is a good time to be looking around for local colleges that run it since the courses will all start in Sept and you'll probably need to get down there in person on enrollment day and get your place, pay your fees etc.

[djsb]

Admissions tutors DO take into account relevant industry experience for mature students. The main problem is financial not relevant experience. If you can get your company to sponsor you then thats great.

For instance this page says a HNC takes 1 day a week

http://www.netpengineering.co.uk/hnc-engineering

Maybe you could talk to your manager about getting sponsorship for this scheme.

David.

[Simon]

Maybe you could suggest to that your company gets involved in this?

http://www.netpengineering.co.uk/

Problem is you could only get involved in this if you where already doing a degree at Northampton. Then you'd go on a 12 month placement/internship at a company that is partnered with the university.

They do the same where I work. The students dissappear for 12 months on a placement/internship, come back for a year and are often offered a job where they worked. It's all kinds of companies (Dyson, McLaren, Rolls Royce and small ones).

I don't know how it works out for mature students as they seem to be declining because of the costs involved.

David.

The key point is here that I'm working for a bunch of cheapskates that won't let me out for a day never mind having me go off to another company as part of my qualifications. They want their cake and they want to eat it. They will lay the money down but i have to do it in my own time. I'm only willing to do that because as they also realize it will do me good for my own business and I personally enjoy the subject.

[Simon]

all I can do is a HNC and still need the nod to get into that with no previous qualifications.

You need to do the ONC first, before the HNC. You stand absolutely no chance of walking straight into a HNC course without having done the ONC first, not just cos they won't let you, more cos you need to know all the stuff from the ONC first!

I don't know where you're based, but I did mine at Chesterfield College of Technology & Arts. Now is a good time to be looking around for local colleges that run it since the courses will all start in Sept and you'll probably need to get down there in person on enrollment day and get your place, pay your fees etc.

I spoke to bedford college who like any other had no problem. they said that as a "mature" student in work and with practical experience they would interview me to check i have the aptitude etc and then let me into it. snag is it's a long day away from work. They want me studying in my own time while at work I'm designing mechanical stuff (that I'm also unqualified to do....)

[bookaboo]

all I can do is a HNC and still need the nod to get into that with no previous qualifications.

You need to do the ONC first, before the HNC. You stand absolutely no chance of walking straight into a HNC course without having done the ONC first, not just cos they won't let you, more cos you need to know all the stuff from the ONC first!

Not true, if you have practical experience with a reference or two then most lecturers will be only too glad to have you in.
You will need day release though. A HNC aren't all that hard (if you can learn practical electronics you have the capacity to learn HNC material) but there is a lot to do in 1 day. Around here it's 10 hours of class packed into a single day then homework after that.

[Codemonkey]

I understand what you're saying, but a but of practical experience doesn't come anywhere near to covering the 2 years of theory learned. I already had some experience as a hobbyist before starting (was already etching my own PCB's before I started), but I know for a fact that without the specialist knowledge gained on the ONC, the HNC would have been a complete waste of time as I would have been completely out of my depth.

I don't wish to offend, but having read many of Simon's posts, I suspect he'd struggle to walk straight into a HNC. The ONC on the other hand assumes no prior knowledge of electronics and is a perfect starting point, its certainly not a numptys starter course, It covers a hell of a lot during those 2 years. I learned a lot when I did mine, much of it now forgotten but still contained in the many many pages of notes taken for reference!

[Simon]

I could probably do with a simpler course if it's a harder course yes. The only other thing i can find is a BTEC L3 which will probably be a good starting point. Although like I said it does not seem to offer anything I don't know already.

[Simon]

All I can do before going for a HNC is this: http://www.icslearn.co.uk/distance-learning-courses/btec-level-3-certificate-in-electronic-engineering.aspx which to be honest sounds a bit wishy washy to me.

I also want to avoid a situation where once I have "A piece of paper" my employer not understanding jack shit about the subject takes it as a convenient copout to say they have helped me and have something to "show off" in their next company presentation as having an onsite electronics engineer......

[Simon]

I've emailed logis  and asked their advice on entry level. I am in a dilema of not doing something that is pointless while not going in over my head bearing in mind that it is now clear that I am mildly dyslexic (may account for some silly posts, brainstorming and second opinions always help).

[M0BSW]

You most certainly DO NOT have to be an apprentice  to obtain NVQ's in the UK, I've been a Trucker for 40 Years, last Year I got my NVQ's in road haulage, parts 1 to 32. Also,in the last Year I got my CPC, no apprenticeships in this career., So just get the NVQ course you need ,and crack on.
Paul

[M0BSW]

I've emailed logis  and asked their advice on entry level. I am in a dilema of not doing something that is pointless while not going in over my head bearing in mind that it is now clear that I am mildly dyslexic (may account for some silly posts, brainstorming and second opinions always help).

If the course you choose is with a good company they will help you work it out, don't  let dyslexic put you off, I want to hear you passed it.

[Simon]

I've emailed logis  and asked their advice on entry level. I am in a dilema of not doing something that is pointless while not going in over my head bearing in mind that it is now clear that I am mildly dyslexic (may account for some silly posts, brainstorming and second opinions always help).

If the course you choose is with a good company they will help you work it out, don't  let dyslexic put you off, I want to hear you passed it.

Well put it this way, I started out as a nobody testing faulty radiators, moved into the quality department and then into design where i was supposed to be just doing minor mods to drawings and ended up with my own project within 6 months and now they want to have me handle the electronics side of things as the sole person in the company that knows didly squatt about the subject so I guess I'm capable providing i don't try to go to far too fast. The guy that proceeded me out of QC and into engineering took 4 years to do it with all of his so called qualifications whereas I moved in 3  his only consolation is that we have interests in entirely different fields.

[Simon]

I was advised not to bother with NVQ and to worry more about the actual level whatever it is is at. It seems to be a case of calling the same thing different names.

[Codemonkey]

I've just had a quick read of some of the BTEC L3 stuff, and from what I can gather, that is basically what was the old ONC (ONC = Ordinary National Certificate). I seem to recall my certificate just said "National Certificate". So, it would appear that the level 3 thing is what you would need to do before a HNC. Certainly looking at the prospectus of my old college, they describe the HNC course as being level 4 (https://www.chesterfield.ac.uk/sites/default/files/documents/cc_part-time_guide_web.pdf)

It certainly wasn't wishy washy. I agree that at first read, it looks a bit pants, but things like "electrical principles" and applications covers a hell of a lot. For example, we spent a good chunk of time learning to design a dc motor, right down to the number of turns required on the windings, how many poles, supply voltage, current, torque etc. Then again with transformers, and we're not talking design of a little 5VA thing for a PCB, this was calculating stuff for substation size, taking into account power factors of loads, iron and copper losses (resistances in the copper and eddy currents in the core, not pikeys nicking the metal  ). Also designing single and multiple transistor amplifiers from scratch with just the desired impedances and gain specified.

If that is indeed the replacement for the ONC, and you can do it in 12 months as a distance learning course, its well worth doing.

[M0BSW]

I've emailed logis  and asked their advice on entry level. I am in a dilema of not doing something that is pointless while not going in over my head bearing in mind that it is now clear that I am mildly dyslexic (may account for some silly posts, brainstorming and second opinions always help).

If the course you choose is with a good company they will help you work it out, don't  let dyslexic put you off, I want to hear you passed it.

You'll be fine,sounds like you have a decent boss too,I'm only a hobbyist+radio ham,my friend who owns a tv shop got an old tv in none working, said to me here it is , you know where not to stick your fingers, fix it so I go in on a Saturday, and I'm slowly working my way through it,all about confidence, and a little shove in the right direction, plus I'm getting to use some really good test equipment.

Well put it this way, I started out as a nobody testing faulty radiators, moved into the quality department and then into design where i was supposed to be just doing minor mods to drawings and ended up with my own project within 6 months and now they want to have me handle the electronics side of things as the sole person in the company that knows didly squatt about the subject so I guess I'm capable providing i don't try to go to far too fast. The guy that proceeded me out of QC and into engineering took 4 years to do it with all of his so called qualifications whereas I moved in 3  his only consolation is that we have interests in entirely different fields.

[M0BSW]

I've always wanted to get some kind of qualification in electronics,I have contacted the open university,waste of time that was, then the local college who only do, Radio amateur course , which I did 12 Years ago,I so pretty much give up on it.
Guess I'll always be a hobbyist.

[Simon]

I've just had a quick read of some of the BTEC L3 stuff, and from what I can gather, that is basically what was the old ONC (ONC = Ordinary National Certificate). I seem to recall my certificate just said "National Certificate". So, it would appear that the level 3 thing is what you would need to do before a HNC. Certainly looking at the prospectus of my old college, they describe the HNC course as being level 4 (https://www.chesterfield.ac.uk/sites/default/files/documents/cc_part-time_guide_web.pdf)

It certainly wasn't wishy washy. I agree that at first read, it looks a bit pants, but things like "electrical principles" and applications covers a hell of a lot. For example, we spent a good chunk of time learning to design a dc motor, right down to the number of turns required on the windings, how many poles, supply voltage, current, torque etc. Then again with transformers, and we're not talking design of a little 5VA thing for a PCB, this was calculating stuff for substation size, taking into account power factors of loads, iron and copper losses (resistances in the copper and eddy currents in the core, not pikeys nicking the metal  ). Also designing single and multiple transistor amplifiers from scratch with just the desired impedances and gain specified.

If that is indeed the replacement for the ONC, and you can do it in 12 months as a distance learning course, its well worth doing.

Well if it really covers that then yes it could be what I need and will teach me something. I'm always wary of private companies and advertising statements. I want value for time (I'll leave the money to my boss).

[Simon]

I've always wanted to get some kind of qualification in electronics,I have contacted the open university,waste of time that was, then the local college who only do, Radio amateur course , which I did 12 Years ago,I so pretty much give up on it.
Guess I'll always be a hobbyist.

that is sort of where I am finding myself

[djsb]

What about City and Guilds? Thats how I started out with a C&G in Electronic Servicing. C&G is well respected and has been around a long time.
Here is one for Electronics

http://www.cityandguilds.com/courses-and-qualifications/engineering/electrical-and-electronic/8030-electrical-and-electronic-engineering

Just a thought.

David.

[Simon]

Well from what I gather C&G, NVQ and BTEC it does not really matter, they will all give me a good foundation to then look at a HNC

[M0BSW]

I've always wanted to get some kind of qualification in electronics,I have contacted the open university,waste of time that was, then the local college who only do, Radio amateur course , which I did 12 Years ago,I so pretty much give up on it.
Guess I'll always be a hobbyist.

that is sort of where I am finding myself

I look forward to see how you get around it,as I will have to go the same way.

[M0BSW]

Simon I'm just enquired to ICS about a Btec 3 course for electronics/servicing £600.that would give me some qualififcation for the 48 Years apprenticeship as a hobbyist, from tube to I C's.

[Simon]

Well I'll speak to my boss tomorrow and suggest I do that BTEC L3 first to make sure I have all the basics covered as it's a small amount compared to the HNC that will cost a lot more to flop with. That assuming that that HNC course is still available.