Free Altium is Coming

[Iliya]

In the past when trade shows were worth going to, I often came across something cool that I'd like to buy, So I would get my wallet out and say to the zealous sales guy, How much, I want it now. This is the best way to suss out vapourware.

I think I have a good pricing/feature model for them.

• Generate loads of hype about a free version. Don't mention $$$.
  
• Give away a 'free' version so they would commit the start of their design and many hours of work that they would be reluctant to lose.
  
• Then tighten the screw, say a nominal 'upgrade' to hook them in further.
  
• Continue tightening the screw until it's $9000 and/or a nice subscription price
  
• Then in a year or so dump it (aka PCad) and move 'em to Designer. Nice one! Mission complete. (They could of course dump Designer) 

Saw this on a Google forum.
I looked on the Altium web site for pricing, and they're one of those
"hand us one of your testicles and we'll tell you how much you need to
pay to buy our product" sort of companies.

[miguelvp]

Got the same newsletter, which it's all it was.

They had 12,000 requests for the Beta, they are starting the closed beta with a small pool of testers, to help them define the program and work out some of the basic logistics, but after that they will have an open beta.

We are such an instant gratification society. Products announced one year in advance are not uncommon in the software industry.

[Iliya]

Well you are soon to be gratified. 

I had this from Daniel Fernsebner.
Director of Global Services & Developer Network

Closed beta has begun with the intent to release the product in January.

Kind regards,
Dan

So the Beta is just December?

[Rigby]

It's always been known that it was a "free to use, pay to be useful" style of app, Iliya. 

I wound up getting an Altium Designer trial license and minus a small amount of (assumed) legacy UI stupidity, it is fantastic.

I won't be buying AD, and I'm definitely giving CM a try when it is available.

January makes sense if the closed beta is with their usual closed beta partners.  They're gonna get feedback they will trust from those folks I'd bet.

edited to correct spelling of Iliya's name.

[Iliya]

It's always been known that it was a "free to use, pay to be useful" style of app.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'pay to be useful'. Seems to imply the 'free to use' is not useful so the free version is like a car with the seats chains up and no driving wheel. So is this really a demo in disguise? Mind you, I would expect a demo to be useful.

[Rigby]

This is useful for hobby stuff.  For 4-layer or large boards or whatnot, there are extra parts to buy/rent.

[Iliya]

I assume you have the beta (closed) version and have a spec. of what's for free and checked it out. Is that correct? Perhaps you could tell us all.

[Rigby]

I assume you have the beta (closed) version and have a spec. of what's for free and checked it out. Is that correct? Perhaps you could tell us all.

I don't, and if I did, I doubt I'd be able to share that.

I don't know, myself.  Reading through this thread will get you that information, though. 

I believe that 2 layer stuff is included, 3D is included free, libraries are required to be shared, IIRC, you can have one private design for free, others are public, um, 4-layer is a paid option, board sizes beyond 100cm² are a pay option.  can't recall anything else at the moment. 

read through this thread.  the info I know all came from here and circuitmaker.com.

[graynomad]

4-layer is a paid option

I hope not, 4 layers is the new 2 layers IMO and I'm increasingly looking at 6.

[Iliya]

On their we site they only say:
'CircuitMaker will be a free PCB design tool powered by Altium.'
There is no mention of charging. In the UK they would be breaking trade description laws if the software you downloaded had to be paid for.
As detailed in their newsletter they won't say what is in and what is not. So in reality nobody outside Altium know, even Altium does not know 

Their newsletter does not say anything specific except implying they don't yet know how to measure the thickness of your wallet.

Feature Tiers
CircuitMaker is free to start, with the option to selectively upgrade features if you need them. What is the optimal level for these upgrade tiers? What features do we need to adjust to make these levels work best? Work best for who? For customer just all features works best.

Upgrade Points
Along with determining the feature upgrade tiers, the actual price points separating each of these tiers is important. What is the right approach when figuring out these points, and should they be adjusted? Right approach? For whom? For customer just an all in price works best with no price traps. 

Why can't they charge just one price instead of trying to con people? This industry seems riddled with such dubious pricing. As the developer of AutoTRAX DEX I only charge one price.

Honestly would be a nice thing!

[Rigby]

Well, no, they don't know, you're right.

That's why they're in the closed beta with (probably) trusted entities that give them honest feedback.  They're wanting to know just what they should charge for certain features and what all the terms should be and all of that.

I'm not sure why you're angry.  If it's something I said, I apologize. 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Feature Tiers
CircuitMaker is free to start, with the option to selectively upgrade features if you need them. What is the optimal level for these upgrade tiers? What features do we need to adjust to make these levels work best? Work best for who? For customer just all features works best.

Not if having all features means the user is paying for stuff they don't need.

Why can't they charge just one price instead of trying to con people?

Because that would make it unaffordable for some users. They have to make a living out of this.

[free_electron]

they also announced circuitstudio.

my gut says

circuitmaker : free - cloud storage
circuitstudio : paid in tiers : local storage.

[Rigby]

Feature Tiers
CircuitMaker is free to start, with the option to selectively upgrade features if you need them. What is the optimal level for these upgrade tiers? What features do we need to adjust to make these levels work best? Work best for who? For customer just all features works best.

Not if having all features means the user is paying for stuff they don't need.

Why can't they charge just one price instead of trying to con people?

Because that would make it unaffordable for some users. They have to make a living out of this.

Yeah, exactly.  This is a strategy that works for the consumer (usually) and the software/service provider, and it's becoming more and more common.  Economics and marketing research shows that if you offer a potential customer the exact thing they need, they're much more likely to purchase what you are offering.  This is why automobile models have several editions (LX, SE, Limited, etc.) and why software packages like this one go all the way from $0 to whatever they're going to charge to fully license everything permanently.

In that way the customer can purchase only what they need, making them more likely to purchase, and it will very likely cost a lot less than buying a full-service package that will contain a lot of things that no one uses.  So, the customer gets what they needed, and Altium make a sale when they otherwise wouldn't have.

they also announced circuitstudio.

my gut says

circuitmaker : free - cloud storage
circuitstudio : paid in tiers : local storage.

I think you're right about that.  All the uproar about cloud-only, they'd be fools not to see that as a business opportunity.

[_Sin]

From the email the other day, this bit: "Nearly 12,000 makers, hobbyists and DIYers have shown their support..." raised a wry smile here.

I'm presumably one of those 12,000, but while I've expressed interest, I'm not calling that "support" until I've decided whether or not this thing is even going to be useful for my hobbyist needs.

[ehughes]

Why can't they charge just one price instead of trying to con people?

That is like saying "Why can't a chip maker make only one version of a chip in one package for one price?"

It's is because I may not need the version with ethernet, USB and SD card in a 256 pin BGA.   I really only need the 64-QFP version with 1/2 the memory and 1 serial interface.

This is called basic business sense.   You build tier so there are multiple points of entry to grab multiple levels of customers. 

Lastly,   given that the intention is to give a baseline version for free, why would you ever complain about it?       Given that this takes real engineers working at their day jobs to build,   expecting the entire product capability for Free price is dumb.

[free_electron]

Why can't they charge just one price instead of trying to con people?

That is like saying "Why can't a chip maker make only one version of a chip in one package for one price?"

It's is because I may not need the version with ethernet, USB and SD card in a 256 pin BGA.   I really only need the 64-QFP version with 1/2 the memory and 1 serial interface.

in many cases they even contain the same die .... just with a couple of fuses blown... with masksets costing millions of dollars it is cheaper doing one maskset and blowing fuses. silicon area is cheaper than masksets.

[Iliya]

From the email the other day, this bit: "Nearly 12,000 makers, hobbyists and DIYers have shown their support..." raised a wry smile here.

I'm presumably one of those 12,000, but while I've expressed interest, I'm not calling that "support" until I've decided whether or not this thing is even going to be useful for my hobbyist needs.

It means they now have nearly 12,000 emails. They got my email address on the promise of a download. No download  Ummm, I wonder what they'll do with the emails, send me to the recycle bin? 

[miguelvp]

It only means that it's a closed beta and you were no selected.
You'll have to wait for the open beta like the rest of us that didn't get selected.

[Iliya]

Why can't they charge just one price instead of trying to con people?

That is like saying "Why can't a chip maker make only one version of a chip in one package for one price?"

This is not like software and the comparison is not like for like.

For a single binary program collection it is exactly like saying "Why can't a software developer make only one version of a program in one package for one price?"

Before I went to University I worked for United Biscuits, in Halifax in charge of one of the 3 custard filling machine. Yes, it was me that put the cream into custard creams. The machine would busily assemble the biscuits with cream and off they went through the cooler to the packing machines at the other end. They would pack then into PennyWise, Sainbury’s and Marks and Spencer brand packets. All the same biscuits at the same time.  In the shops PennyWise custard creams were a lot cheaper than the others. It doesn’t just happen with custard creams.

After graduating from University I worked first for Ferranti Electronics then National Semiconductor and then Motorola  in photolithography. (Microchip manufactures).  Now, back to biscuits; yes you guessed it, yes often the same stuff came out of the end. However, the testing sorted them out into different ‘speed’ bins. Now think overclocking.

Now AutoTRAX, all 430,000 lines of it, comes out the other end as just one program and one price.  I won’t deceive or trap people.

There is no such thing as a free lunch; the piper will be paid! Maybe not now but soon...

[ehughes]

This is not like software and the comparison is not like for like.

Actually it is.   A semiconductor family is designed to the device super-set and simply repackaged.   Takes about the the same amount of work in design, tape-out, etc.     It would be dumb to do otherwise.

To be honest,  your business skills need refinement if you cannot figure out a multi-tiered approach to sales and marketing.    Doesn't matter if it's tulip bulbs, software or marshmallows.   

You can sell your product for whatever you want.   Expecting a large company with $80M/year in revenue to give away their entire product for free is not reasonable.

Life is much different when you have to meet payroll and expenses compared running a part-time hobby shop. 

What people expect for free simply amazes me.

[Iliya]

To be honest,  your business skills need refinement if you cannot figure out a multi-tiered approach to sales and marketing.   

If you read my posts, I clearly understand the multi-tiered approach for what it is and I am trying to inform others about what they really are buying in to.

Expecting a large company with $80M/year in revenue to give away their entire product for free is not reasonable.

So, you agree with me that Circuit Maker really is not free in the long term.

Life is much different when you have to meet payroll and expenses compared running a part-time hobby shop. 

I absolutely agree with you. If you are referring to me as a running as a part-time hobby shop then clearly, in your eyes, you are trying to degrade what I do. I am not a part-time hobby shop but like many people on this forum, I a full time professional working far more efficiently that several groups in a company spread over several countries. 

Many large companies start out as a ‘part-time hobby shop’; see the history of Silicon Valley. Some even keep their original founder while others sack their founder and forget their roots. Some companies see the folly of dumping the founder and quickly get them back (Apple).

Perhaps an apology is in order. I suggest you try AutoTRAX with an open mind and you will realize your error.

[zapta]

Perhaps an apology is in order. I suggest you try AutoTRAX with an open mind and you will realize your error.

Does it run on Mac OSX?

[Iliya]

Yes.
See:
http://kov.com/Support/Apple

Here is a message from Don Knull


I wanted to let you know that I have, I hope, the answer to the problem with garbled graphics in my DEX installation.

I downloaded and installed an evaluation copy of VMWare Fusion 5.0.1, which is a competitor to Parallels. After installing it I installed DEX and some of the other programs I normally would have on my Windows system.

DEX runs very smoothly in all views, including the 3D view. According to the Activity Monitor, VMWare uses about 75% of CPU capacity when DEX is spinning my 3D model, while Parallels was using 98-110% (!) doing the same thing. So the problem apparently is 3D graphics bandwidth in this emulated environment.

A caveat: I installed the latest 1.11.08, which I am assuming still is using the older 3D package, not OpenGL.

Other caveats are that in doing this I installed a fresh copy of everything - Windows, .NET 4, etc. I also have not installed *everything* that I had on my Parallels VM, such as Microsoft Office, Visio, Silverlight, and others. I suppose some of that might have caused the problem, although none of it was running when the problem occurred.

My intention is to make the full migration to VMWare, and leave Parallels behind. The upgrade cost is reasonable, and I would need to spend the same amount to make the upgrade to the latest Parallels version anyway.

Thanks! And you may find this information helpful for others who might be using Macs to run DEX.

Don Knull

[BloodyCactus]

any windows program can run under vmware/parallels.

I would not call that running on Mac OSX . Its not a native OSX application with OSX integration.