Windows is getting disgusting

[Muxr]

I can see it not being very reliable because in terminal you are often using a program to control other programs, things like screen and tmux are common. All Linux has to do is move all their GUI shortcuts to use Alt instead of Ctrl. And the problem would be fixed. It would make Linux as easy as OS X. And you can still have your terminal shortcuts use Ctrl.

With X11/xorg you can modify keys as you like. You could use xmodmap or XKB for example.

In my experience that doesn't translate to all the apps. Like a terminal app won't honor those bindings.

[madires]

With X11/xorg you can modify keys as you like. You could use xmodmap or XKB for example.

In my experience that doesn't translate to all the apps. Like a terminal app won't honor those bindings.

I don't know if you've written any X11 applications. Unless the application (or the widget used) explicitly retrieves raw keys it gets parsed keys.

[Philfreeze]

I can't simply go to the next shop, grab the next best PC and install OSX. Apple gone to a lot of effort to suppress compatibles. Does the OSX EULA say something like that OSX may only be used with an Apple computer? There you go! A walled garden

Sadly, I have to agree with that. It is kind of sad that you can't install OSX legaly on other PC systems than the Macs. It is possible though, I have an XPS Hackintosh with runs just fine but again, it isn't exactly legal and it is also not very easy to get it running (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't)

[rsjsouza]

Except when people actually type not every key press and release is a separate motion. For example for me:

On Mac:

- Move your right hand to the mouse. Select.
- Hold CMD *
- Press C     * These are one motion
- Press Tab
- Press V
- Release Hold

On other OSs:

- Move your right hand off the keyboard to the mouse. Select
- Hold Ctrl               *
- Press C                 * These are also one motion
- Release Ctrl,         **
- Press and Hold Alt ** As are these
- Press Tab             **
- Release Alt             ***
- Press and hold Ctrl  *** And these
- Press V                   ***
- Release Alt

So both take 4 motions.

Absolutely false. Having to switch between holding ctrl and alt is not at all the same as just holding one button without having to release it. Run a test and see which one is easier. Just pretend ctrl-c was alt-c. And don't release it between the steps.

I am not arguing the speed I am arguing the ease. Although OSX way can also be faster.

I agree with Muxr on this particular example, despite on Windows I use the Ctrl+Tab to switch between browser tabs. However, overall I agree with Mechanical Menace they are different: Mac OS is smarter in a few things, dumber in others. In my experience I find myself missing PgUp/PgDown and Del keys all the time and Ins key more rarely. Another annoyance in my opinion is that usually the red "X" does not quit the application (you need to issue Cmd+Q).

[madires]

I seriously doubt they are ethically superior to MS as well, they are all the same, at least with MS my CAD tools and software work without jumping through hoops. I'm not completely at the mercy of MS for hardware and software, thats a corporation wet dream, they have you by the short and curlies as the saying goes.

With Woz as CEO Apple would have gone a completely different way. They wouldn't be such a successful giant (by profit), but a very open and ethical company. I'd suppose you can't have both.

In the corporate world you can't go wrong with Microsoft. The software developers know that, and the IT departments too. If something goes wrong you can blame Microsoft. But if you dare to use another OS you will be blamed. One old decision is haunting companies now, it's the Internet Explorer. There are tons of web based applications (some being business critical) which are designed to work with IE only, but Microsoft is dropping IE. Some of those applications require IE6. If companies would have decided to go for standard HTML they wouldn't have the problem to make their business critical applications to work with other or current web browsers. But you can blame it on Microsoft and get the additional budget for adapting your business critical applications without much trouble. And nobody remembers that you've said back then that using an application based on IE6 might be a bad idea in the future. You can't go wrong with Microsoft 

[rdl]

In light of some staements made recently by Apple's CEO, I'm wondering if the cost vs. value may need looking at again. Apple's ethics seem to be more in line with mine, unlike Microsoft's attitude that what's mine is theirs to sell to the highest bidder.

[Cerebus]

For the same hardware, a PC is usually way cheaper than a Mac.

At one time that was true but every penny extra you spent on a Mac you got back in reliability and engineering quality. I've got two Mac G4 notebooks, one G5 desktop and one G5 dual tower that are still working faultlessly years after Apple dropped support for them. I'm not convinced that recent Macs have kept that quality up to the old ones and may not justify the premium pricing as well as the old ones did.

I used to specify and resell HP PCs (around the late 90's early 00's) where the retail price was on the same order above typical PCs as Apple's are/were. They were superbly build and not one we used or sold went wrong - again the extra price was reflected in the quality you received. This was the old HP though - that made oscilloscopes and PCs and I think was the better for it.

[timb]

For the same hardware, a PC is usually way cheaper than a Mac.

At one time that was true but every penny extra you spent on a Mac you got back in reliability and engineering quality. I've got two Mac G4 notebooks, one G5 desktop and one G5 dual tower that are still working faultlessly years after Apple dropped support for them. I'm not convinced that recent Macs have kept that quality up to the old ones and may not justify the premium pricing as well as the old ones did.

I used to specify and resell HP PCs (around the late 90's early 00's) where the retail price was on the same order above typical PCs as Apple's are/were. They were superbly build and not one we used or sold went wrong - again the extra price was reflected in the quality you received. This was the old HP though - that made oscilloscopes and PCs and I think was the better for it.

Yeah, I've still got a Mirrored Drive Door G4 Tower (aka Wind Tunnel) that's been humming along for, gosh 13 years now. I just checked and uptime is currently 3 years 52 days 14 hours and 27 minutes! (It's in the back of a closet with a UPS collecting weather data via a custom script I wrote years ago.

I've also got a Core Duo iMac in the equipment closet running Snow Leopard that acts as the house server. It does network faxing, storage and printer sharing.

No issues with either! (I know I could replace the MDD G4 with a Raspberry Pi, but it's got a special place in my heart as it was my first Mac desktop back in 2003. It was a beast, too. Man, so many hours playing Neverwinter Nights on that thing... Finally replaced it in 2006 with the first Intel Mac Pro.)

Anyway, I can't speak to current hardware, but my 2014 MacBook Air is solidly built and I haven't had any trouble with it.

[Tim F]

It's best just to re-install Windows once a year anyway. Try to use as much portable software as possible to keep from cluttering up the registry.

Pfft, that is the speak of a man who has not yet learned how to keep their windows install neat and lean . Mine still runs like the day I installed it:

[Karel]

I can't simply go to the next shop, grab the next best PC and install OSX. Apple gone to a lot of effort to suppress compatibles. Does the OSX EULA say something like that OSX may only be used with an Apple computer? There you go! A walled garden

Sadly, I have to agree with that. It is kind of sad that you can't install OSX legaly on other PC systems than the Macs. It is possible though, I have an XPS Hackintosh with runs just fine but again, it isn't exactly legal and it is also not very easy to get it running (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't)

There's a good reason for that. If Apple should allow to install OSX on whatever hardware you like, then the quality, stability and
user experience will be dependent on drivers and hardware that is beyond the control of Apple.

It's like saying that it is a kind of sad that you can not install the software of an R&S oscilloscope on a Rigol scope.

[German_EE]

Tim F has made an interesting boast and there is one thing that has me curious. There is a directory/folder in MS Windows called Winsxs which increases in size over time as more and more updates are applied, in my case it's now at 8.2Gb and forms about half of the 17Gb installation. As the folder size has grown boot times have increased until it now takes about four minutes before I have a usable system.

Yes, I have run the various cleanup utilities, but please tell us Tim how you have overcome this particular problem.

[rdl]

It's best just to re-install Windows once a year anyway. Try to use as much portable software as possible to keep from cluttering up the registry.

Pfft, that is the speak of a man who has not yet learned how to keep their windows install neat and lean . Mine still runs like the day I installed it:
...

Apparently, I do not follow my own advice. Of the two Windows 7 computers I still have running, one has not been re-installed since August 2013, and the other (never activated and running in 30 day trial mode) not since June 2014.

[rdl]

The winsxs folder is where Windows stores all the parts it has used in the past, or might need in the future.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2795190

[DimitriP]

Tim F has made an interesting boast and there is one thing that has me curious. There is a directory/folder in MS Windows called Winsxs which increases in size over time as more and more updates are applied, in my case it's now at 8.2Gb and forms about half of the 17Gb installation. As the folder size has grown boot times have increased until it now takes about four minutes before I have a usable system.

Yes, I have run the various cleanup utilities, but please tell us Tim how you have overcome this particular problem.

I don't know about Tim F but here is some reading:
(How to address disk space issues that are caused by a large Windows component store (WinSxS) directory)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2795190

[rdl]

...
As far as apple supposedly being not as invasive as MS, yea right dream on.
...

Does anyone know if the following applies only to Apple phones?

For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.

[HAL-42b]

For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.

Pure PR bullshit. Apple can even push new firmware to your phone over the aether without user intervention. They can target all phones or a particular phone. They have complete control over every bit of data on that phone, past present and future.

[madires]

Sadly, I have to agree with that. It is kind of sad that you can't install OSX legaly on other PC systems than the Macs. It is possible though, I have an XPS Hackintosh with runs just fine but again, it isn't exactly legal and it is also not very easy to get it running (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't)

There's a good reason for that. If Apple should allow to install OSX on whatever hardware you like, then the quality, stability and
user experience will be dependent on drivers and hardware that is beyond the control of Apple.

It's like saying that it is a kind of sad that you can not install the software of an R&S oscilloscope on a Rigol scope.

Sounds like being directly from Apple's marketing department  Would it be too hard for Apple to provide a list of supported hardware? For example, VMware does that for ESXi. VMware provides all drivers and the ESXi servers have to run rock solid for a "great user experience".

The comparison you've made isn't appropriate, since we're discussing mass market OSs and not some special tools for EEs. Along your lines I could say it would be like being forced to fill my Toyota with Toyota gas (if there would be Toyota gas stations).

[madires]

I don't know about Tim F but here is some reading:
(How to address disk space issues that are caused by a large Windows component store (WinSxS) directory)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2795190

There's another junk yard collecting several GBs during Windows' lifetime, the windows updates. They won't be deleted after updating.

[Tim F]

Haven't touched the winsxs folder here, boot time is about 30 seconds from POST completing to having a usable desktop. OS installed on 256gb Samsung 850 pro SSD. OS was originally installed on a conventional HDD (2tb or something), I cloned the OS partition when I bought the SSD.

Also have a Dell xps13 laptop running the windows8 install it came with in 2012 or 2013 and it still boots to a desktpp in about 15 seconds.

[madires]

For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.

Pure PR bullshit. Apple can even push new firmware to your phone over the aether without user intervention. They can target all phones or a particular phone. They have complete control over every bit of data on that phone, past present and future.

And Microsoft is quite late with Win10 doing something similar. So much for ethics and the question about which one is more evil.

[dannyf]

Quote from: Tim Cook, CEO Apple

any engineer believing that is entitled to have his/her tuition refunded.

[GreyWoolfe]

Tim F has made an interesting boast and there is one thing that has me curious. There is a directory/folder in MS Windows called Winsxs which increases in size over time as more and more updates are applied, in my case it's now at 8.2Gb and forms about half of the 17Gb installation. As the folder size has grown boot times have increased until it now takes about four minutes before I have a usable system.

Yes, I have run the various cleanup utilities, but please tell us Tim how you have overcome this particular problem.

Haven't touched the winsxs folder here, boot time is about 30 seconds from POST completing to having a usable desktop. OS installed on 256gb Samsung 850 pro SSD. OS was originally installed on a conventional HDD (2tb or something), I cloned the OS partition when I bought the SSD.

Also have a Dell xps13 laptop running the windows8 install it came with in 2012 or 2013 and it still boots to a desktpp in about 15 seconds.

I have an HP Z210 SFF computer set up in 2010 with 64 bit Win 7 Ultimate and now 64 bit Win 10 Pro with a Pentium G850 processor, 8 GB ram and a conventional 500 GB hard drive (free computer).  The computer has never had a reinstall of Windows.  The size of the Winsxs folder is 5.7 GB and I have never run any kind of cleanup utilities nor can I remember when the last time I did a disk cleanup and defrag.  I do all updates.  My computer takes about 40 seconds to boot from power on to where I can open programs.  The only thing I do to my computer is run as lean a start up as possible.  I only have my antivirus software running at startup, everything else was unchecked on the list.  The other thing was that Win 7 wasn't an OEM install, I installed my own bloatware free copy.

[rrinker]

 You can only clean up WINSXS back to the last service pack - which is why it sucks that Microsoft never released one final service pack for Windows 7/Server 2008. The size of WINSXS ha nothing to do with boot time though. All the update files are retained so that if you add additional Windows features that weren't previously installed, it installs the already updated versions of the required files instead of the base ones and then needing additional updates.
 I had a laptop using a 120GB SSD, and I still have an old desktop with one that small, and it's not a problem. Where I do find problems is when clients build Windows Server VMs and set a 30GB drive for the C drive. That may have worked fine for Server 2003 and older, but that is not a suitable drive size for 2008 and up.
 If the computer originally had the original RTM Windows installed, and then was later upgraded to SP1 and then updates beyond, you can clean SOME of it up (the Pre SP1 files) by running Dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /SPSuperseded from an elevated command prompt. You won't be able to uninstall the service pack after this.

[AlxDroidDev]

It's best just to re-install Windows once a year anyway. Try to use as much portable software as possible to keep from cluttering up the registry.

Pfft, that is the speak of a man who has not yet learned how to keep their windows install neat and lean . Mine still runs like the day I installed it:

110% agreed! I keep my desktop the same since 2010. Haven't (and will not) moved from Win7, and yet my machine is stable as a rock. This talk that Windows has to be reinstalled every year is complete BS. There is no need for that if you know how to use a computer. It's the same for a car: as long as you know how to properly drive a car, are careful with that you feed it (good fuel, oil and other fuilds changes, etc), that car is gonna last a while. Now, if you're careless or have a shitty car, you'll have to have the car repaired every month and will need an engine change every year.

Have a good computer, take good care of it, and the machine will serve you well for several years.

[Artlav]

+1 on the "no need to reinstall Windows".
Got the same Win7 from when i installed it back in whenever it came out, up to late 2015, when i finally bit the bullet and moved to Linux for good.

I guess my approach is that if a program only comes as an "installer" instead of a zip file, then it's not a program worth having (with a few exceptions and the big corporate stuff that just does not come any other way).
Some of the more useful installer-only programs i have made portable by identifying the registry keys and saving them separately, so i can "reinstall" the program cleanly on a different system.

Never had to use any cleaning tools or antiviruses.
But then again, my first "job" as a schoolkid was going around fixing computers, building computers, removing viruses and so on, so i ended up knowing the Windows' internals pretty well.

On the transfer to Linux or something else - a good thing to have is to identify all the programs and features you use.
Make a list, determine what it would take to completely reconstruct your work environment from scratch (useful even if all you want is to move to another computer with the same type of OS).
The list might not only contain programs, but habits - i.e. i use junction points on NTFS extensively. It sounds like an easy part, since these are conceptually similar to symlinks on Linux, but you'd need special NTFS drivers and some tweaking to get them to work, which is something to be done at the planning stage, not finding it out in the middle of polishing a new system.

You probably would have a bunch of tools you made yourself, that would have to be recompiled on the new system. It's a good idea to do this early, while you still have a working environment to tweak them in.

The end result is an environment that is portable, which can work on several types of systems.