EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Mayo2017]

It's just fun to peek around at some of the "commenters" on pretty much all of their videos. There's an incredibly high incidence of 1-3 word positive comments from accounts less than a couple months old. 

[ccs46]

It's just fun to peek around at some of the "commenters" on pretty much all of their videos. There's an incredibly high incidence of 1-3 word positive comments from accounts less than a couple months old. 

Ill do you one better:



 

[EEVblog]

I don't think this fellow is at all normal and is now attacking Arlens discussion page.

Yup, certified whacko.

[amyk]

they're clearly doing that because they've run out of technical arguments and are trying to divert attention away from it. Point that out to them if you feel like replying, and don't respond with the same sort of insults they're using.

[LabSpokane]

At this point, it will be interesting to just sit and wait.  The Indiegogo page went totally silent.  Something is brewing. 

[EEVblog]

Dr Bob posted this in the Indiegogo comments:

Thank you very much for sharing the posting with us..
Also with regards to your great suggestion, we are working on creating a well articulated video to show the reason why and how our technology works.
There are independent sources that are collecting data on thrown away battery in recycling center shows significant batteries have more than 80% energy left in them when they are throw away. By the way, these are well designed devices by very talented engineers.

Desperately trying to cling to that report (that they almost certainly found on here when someone posted it) to prove their 80% energy wastage figure.
And how can they possibly correlate which batteries were thrown away at the battery cutout voltage, and which were just tossed away for other reason. Let alone what device they went into that he could make the claim "these are well designed devices by very talented engineers" 
More demonstrable bullshit.
They can't of course, after 5 years of development of this thing actually provide their own data to back up their 80% figure.
It gets more embarrassing the more they try and struggle to justify their claims.

[Galenbo]

I think they have working prototypes?

Alexander.

Where do they state that? But even if they state it, I don't believe it. The necessary miniaturation for fitting in enclosures requires a 10000-run batch.

They may have a "working schematic" but it isn't documented and I don't see it. All I see is they have a 3D printed or otherwise CNC machined "cover" witch cannot contain the working schematic at this time.

It says so to the article bellow.

https://www.yahoo.com/makers/breakthrough-battery-gadget-answers-critics-125063020800.html

There were other articles before. Based on the lies in it, the propability they stated something right now, approaches zero.

There is no product. There are renderings, and a print case. And maybe a breadboard proto that works on 1% of the devices, with the condition that the battery type is wrongly set.

[EEVblog]

There were other articles before. Based on the lies in it, the propability they stated something right now, approaches zero.
There is no product. There are renderings, and a print case. And maybe a breadboard proto that works on 1% of the devices, with the condition that the battery type is wrongly set.

Why do you keep saying this?
It is demonstrably true that the product exists. Reputable (rubbish batteriser articles aside) journalists have seen it working. I've spoken to one directly who has seen it.
There are also real prototype photos posted.
How well it works is another matter, but it does exist.
Remember, these guys clearly have big money behind them, and have been working on it for 5 years, and they have the technical credentials to pull it off physically.

[EEVblog]

Haven't seen this business article before on Batteroo:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/batteroo-advisory-board-draws-from-more-than-100-years-of-power-management-electrical-system-product-development-success-2015-06-10

"tested and proven"
"real and proven"

In what universe has it been "proven"? Given their obvious embarrassing public backtracking on many things since their claims have been called out, you gotta wonder just who did the "proving", and where that proof is?

[ccs46]

To quote Dave himself:

https://youtu.be/6a-jcaTn170?t=1m15s

[Arlen Moulton2]

I got so much stick for doing a video like this, people are morons
 

[Galenbo]

There were other articles before. Based on the lies in it, the propability they stated something right now, approaches zero.
There is no product. There are renderings, and a print case. And maybe a breadboard proto that works on 1% of the devices, with the condition that the battery type is wrongly set.

Why do you keep saying this?
It is demonstrably true that the product exists. Reputable (rubbish batteriser articles aside) journalists have seen it working. I've spoken to one directly who has seen it.
There are also real prototype photos posted.
How well it works is another matter, but it does exist.
Remember, these guys clearly have big money behind them, and have been working on it for 5 years, and they have the technical credentials to pull it off physically.

I keep saying it because there are no specs to be found. I mean, mature, real specs. Most crap on Aliexpress has better documentation.
There is no closeup, just shady pictures. Curious about how they did the miniaturisation in those 5 years.
For what the journalist say or think, I couldn't care less. Are they really that kind of guys that can't be fooled with a over-unit machine? It would be the first one I see.

The only thing that could make me think that it really exists, is the time it will be demonstrated by a (not on the payroll) user on youtube, or by you.
How it will perform, we already know that, no one's curious about that.

[Galenbo]

Haven't seen this business article before on Batteroo:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/batteroo-advisory-board-draws-from-more-than-100-years-of-power-management-electrical-system-product-development-success-2015-06-10

"tested and proven"
"real and proven"

In what universe has it been "proven"? Given their obvious embarrassing public backtracking on many things since their claims have been called out, you gotta wonder just who did the "proving", and where that proof is?

Time to pull their PhD and other grades in question. No serious one with some science/tech degree uses "proof" the way they do.

[ccs46]

They say the inventor is going to do a live stream soon. Let the tough questioning begin.

[Fungus]

I just heard a story on the web that what these guys are really after is to license the technology in Batteriser to Tesla motors. It will let their cars drive 8x further.

[Galenbo]

I just heard a story on the web that what these guys are really after is to license the technology in Batteriser to Tesla motors. It will let their cars drive 8x further.

And for the people that interprete 800% more as 9x, there's a bonus :-)

[LabSpokane]

They say the inventor is going to do a live stream soon. Let the tough questioning begin.

Reference?

[McBryce]

I just heard a story on the web that what these guys are really after is to license the technology in Batteriser to Tesla motors. It will let their cars drive 8x further.

?? Most commercial hybrid electric vehicles work on a charge/discharge cycle that only use a tiny fraction of the batteries capacity, somewhere between 100% and 85% fully charged, they delibrately don't get even close to deep discharging the batteries. I don't know the Tesla system, but I'm pretty sure that they have also heavily researched exactly what the "sweet spot" is for their system. As well as that, electric vehicles need AC because they usually use 3 phase AC motors, so there's an inverter in there converting the voltage to AC. A booster would be of no use to a HEV / EV at all.

McBryce.

[ccs46]

They say the inventor is going to do a live stream soon. Let the tough questioning begin.

Reference?

Brad Jones@ 3:20 PM


 1
Reply
 
+Ccs4646 The inventor will be going live stream after the release of the new video. This will be your opportunity to ask all the tough questions live, and "disprove" the product! I will not remember to come find you for the live stream, but if you subscribe to +Batteriser Batteroo ONLY FOR ONE WEEK (This is not an attempt to increase their subscribers, they will be doing all the things you guys want), you will be updated and can let your army of Dave fans know about it.
They are doing this for the skeptics and engineers, it was not planned. It was due to high request. +EEVblog can also ask tough questions and "disprove" the batteriser live.

Let's draw as big of a crowd as possible to this debate between Batteroo Inc and Dave Jones at +EEVblog

Edit: I will not be doing any live debate, as I am not the inventor. This will be a chance for the best from +EEVblog vs the best from Batteroo Inc. I am not up on that level to be able to handle all the tough questions, yet.

[LabSpokane]

They say the inventor is going to do a live stream soon. Let the tough questioning begin.

Reference?

Brad Jones@ 3:20 PM


 1
Reply
 
+Ccs4646 The inventor will be going live stream after the release of the new video. This will be your opportunity to ask all the tough questions live, and "disprove" the product! I will not remember to come find you for the live stream, but if you subscribe to +Batteriser Batteroo ONLY FOR ONE WEEK (This is not an attempt to increase their subscribers, they will be doing all the things you guys want), you will be updated and can let your army of Dave fans know about it.
They are doing this for the skeptics and engineers, it was not planned. It was due to high request. +EEVblog can also ask tough questions and "disprove" the batteriser live.

Let's draw as big of a crowd as possible to this debate between Batteroo Inc and Dave Jones at +EEVblog

Edit: I will not be doing any live debate, as I am not the inventor. This will be a chance for the best from +EEVblog vs the best from Batteroo Inc. I am not up on that level to be able to handle all the tough questions, yet.

Isn't Brad the guy that was leveling the threats?

[ccs46]

They say the inventor is going to do a live stream soon. Let the tough questioning begin.

Reference?

Brad Jones@ 3:20 PM


 1
Reply
 
+Ccs4646 The inventor will be going live stream after the release of the new video. This will be your opportunity to ask all the tough questions live, and "disprove" the product! I will not remember to come find you for the live stream, but if you subscribe to +Batteriser Batteroo ONLY FOR ONE WEEK (This is not an attempt to increase their subscribers, they will be doing all the things you guys want), you will be updated and can let your army of Dave fans know about it.
They are doing this for the skeptics and engineers, it was not planned. It was due to high request. +EEVblog can also ask tough questions and "disprove" the batteriser live.

Let's draw as big of a crowd as possible to this debate between Batteroo Inc and Dave Jones at +EEVblog

Edit: I will not be doing any live debate, as I am not the inventor. This will be a chance for the best from +EEVblog vs the best from Batteroo Inc. I am not up on that level to be able to handle all the tough questions, yet.

Isn't Brad the guy that was leveling the threats?

Indeed he was. To me questioning that he says:
Brad Jones @ 3:40 PM


 1
Reply
 
+Ccs4646 It has been rough  for the past few weeks with a lot of hate mail for the fan page community and myself. I am only human and make mistakes when emotional. I apologize for any hostility. 
Bests?

[Fungus]

+Ccs4646 The inventor will be going live stream after the release of the new video.

So ... that's definitely AFTER the IndieGoGo campaign has finished, right?

[Rasz]

They say the inventor is going to do a live stream soon. Let the tough questioning begin.

Reference?

Brad Jones@ 3:20 PM


 1
Reply
 
+Ccs4646 The inventor will be going live stream after the release of the new video. This will be your opportunity to ask all the tough questions live, and "disprove" the product! I will not remember to come find you for the live stream, but if you subscribe to +Batteriser Batteroo ONLY FOR ONE WEEK (This is not an attempt to increase their subscribers, they will be doing all the things you guys want), you will be updated and can let your army of Dave fans know about it.
They are doing this for the skeptics and engineers, it was not planned. It was due to high request. +EEVblog can also ask tough questions and "disprove" the batteriser live.

Let's draw as big of a crowd as possible to this debate between Batteroo Inc and Dave Jones at +EEVblog

Edit: I will not be doing any live debate, as I am not the inventor. This will be a chance for the best from +EEVblog vs the best from Batteroo Inc. I am not up on that level to be able to handle all the tough questions, yet.

remember The Bill Nye-Ken Ham debate? or Chomsky-some other idiot one? its always a TARP, all it does it legitimises the retards pretending they are on the level playing field. It reframes the situation from 'look at that idiot' to 'oh, its a matter of opinion'.

[LabSpokane]

So, this this will all make so much more sense in a one-sided ask-me any question I feel like answering format?!

They have two websites, a highly professional PR firm, the remains of likely $1M in VC funding, and it's just too difficult to show the arithmetic and EE100 and 200 series calculations that make their claims plausible?  A three page PDF should be all it takes to make their case. 

...oh, that's right. There isn't one. 

Don't take the bait, folks.

[AmmoJammo]

"Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies"

Isn't that what not allowing comments on their videos, without approval, is all about?