Agilent MSO 5000/6000/7000 - anyone hacked these scopes?

[Howardlong]

Howard, thanks for the detailed probe info, exactly what I needed.  I just bought two 1160A probe sets on eBay which I'm pretty sure are the equivalent early version of the 1165A you recommended - they come in neat zipper pouches with a load of different probe accessories - got them for $80 each.  The guy had them listed on eBay as 10073C, probably because nobody was going to search for '1160A'.  I guess if they don't work, I can return them as technically they are not the advertised item.

I'm still working on the LA probe stuff.

The more I read bout the MSO7104B, the more confident I get that this was a great choice.  I thought I might be having buyers remorse right now but I'm not.  A scope is one of the basic tools I use to make my living and, to date, I've been struggling with a Rigol MSO2202A and had access to a Tektronix MDO3204 but they are both dogs when it comes to I2C / SPI serial bus decode - to the point of being unusable, looks like the MSO7104 is the dogs bollocks in this regard with full speed hardware decode at 100,000 Wf/sec.

I am not certain how well the 1160A will compensate, the difference between the 1160A and the 1165A in terms of compensation range is 6-9pF and 12-14pF respectively, with the scope input spec'd at 14pF.

Also be aware that SPI decoding fails at a clock speed beyond about 35MHz (it's spec'd to 25MHz).

The best thing about the 5000/6000/7000 series is the UI in terms of ease of use and responsiveness. Everything is obvious. In contrast, the UI of the MDO3000 you mentioned isn't any of those things!

[mikeselectricstuff]

The more I read about the MSO7104B, the more confident I get that this was a great choice.  I thought I might be having buyers remorse right now but I'm not. 

Despite the age, the fact that the 5000/6000/7000 series can easily be hacked for MSO and decodes, a used one at the right price probably still offers about the best bang/buck in this performance range.

[HighVoltage]

I totally agree, the 7000B series scope is by far my favorite scope in the lab.
Especially after I added the fitting 1147B current probe.

[Gandalf_Sr]

I am not certain how well the 1160A will compensate, the difference between the 1160A and the 1165A in terms of compensation range is 6-9pF and 12-14pF respectively, with the scope input spec'd at 14pF.

Also be aware that SPI decoding fails at a clock speed beyond about 35MHz (it's spec'd to 25MHz).

The best thing about the 5000/6000/7000 series is the UI in terms of ease of use and responsiveness. Everything is obvious. In contrast, the UI of the MDO3000 you mentioned isn't any of those things!

Hmmm, now I AM having buyers remorse - anyway, I'll try them out on a 350 and 500 MHz signal and see how they perform - if they suck, I will return them.
[EDIT] I have contacted the seller and told them that if tehse are 1160A probes then I want him to cancel my order.

SPI decode doesn't work > 35 MHz eh?  Useful to know.

Yes, given the cost, I was unimpressed with the Tek MDO3204 with the legit serial decode unit, I would be asking for my money back if I had bought it (it  is on a client site).

I also ordered an HP 01650-61607 cable plus an Agilent E5383A flying lead set for $50 and $25 respectively so I now have the LA connection side covered too.

[Carrington]

Also be aware that SPI decoding fails at a clock speed beyond about 35MHz (it's spec'd to 25MHz).

SPI decode doesn't work > 35 MHz eh?  Useful to know.

Many others oscilloscopes have a similar limitation (regarding decoders), and even worse. So, as you say "useful to know".

[Howardlong]

Also be aware that SPI decoding fails at a clock speed beyond about 35MHz (it's spec'd to 25MHz).

SPI decode doesn't work > 35 MHz eh?  Useful to know.

Many others oscilloscopes have a similar limitation (regarding decoders), and even worse. So, as you say "useful to know".

Interestingly the Tek MDO3000 will decode 50MHz SPI... as will the Rigol MSO1074Z. I suspect it's a limitation of the hardware decoder in the ASIC.

[Carrington]

Interestingly the Tek MDO3000 will decode 50MHz SPI... as will the Rigol MSO1074Z. I suspect it's a limitation of the hardware decoder in the ASIC.

Yes, I think so too.
However the maximum decode/refresh rate on the screen for 5000 6000 and 7000 serie is 60Hz. I remember reading this in a datasheet.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Yes, the real issue is with decoding is the screen refresh rate, my experiences with the Tek MSO3204 were terrible.  The Rigol MSO2202 was better than the Tek but it only decoded what was on the screen and you had to stop the capture and wait for the decode to catch up!

I managed to contact the eBay seller and my 1160A purchase is now cancelled.  Now to look for some good probes.  I can't believe I was looking at such cheap probes when I bought such an awesome scope - like buying a Ferrari and putting retread tires on it.  The 1165A is what I'm looking for as per Howard's advice.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Interestingly the Tek MDO3000 will decode 50MHz SPI... as will the Rigol MSO1074Z. I suspect it's a limitation of the hardware decoder in the ASIC.

Yes, I think so too.
However the maximum decode/refresh rate on the screen for 5000 6000 and 7000 serie is 60Hz. I remember reading this in a datasheet.

Try this link for a comparison with a Tek 4000B

In it, Agilent makes this claim...
• Up to 500,000 times faster when tektronix enables the features they promote like 10M of memory, digital channels and/or serial decode

[Gandalf_Sr]

I'm using Tektronix P6156 Lo-z probes with my DSO7000 series but I have put a piece of kapton tape on the probe detect pin because these probes can have different attenuation factors which are not supported by the DSO7000. Setting the attenuation factor manually is easy though.

Hmm, there's quite a few P6156 probes on eBay at reasonable prices and I was surprised to see that they go up to 3.5 GHz, is there some catch?  Also can you please give a bit more info on how you set up the 7000 to use these - I presume you start by setting the input impedance to 50 Ohms.

[Howardlong]

Another "feature" of the MDO3000 is that when you switch on even one channel of the LA, the update rate goes down from about 50kHz down to a an average of about 60Hz but in bursts of about 130Hz with two 70ms gaps every 1/4s, so it's very noticeable. And that's without any decoding at all.

[Howardlong]

I'm using Tektronix P6156 Lo-z probes with my DSO7000 series but I have put a piece of kapton tape on the probe detect pin because these probes can have different attenuation factors which are not supported by the DSO7000. Setting the attenuation factor manually is easy though.

Hmm, there's quite a few P6156 probes on eBay at reasonable prices and I was surprised to see that they go up to 3.5 GHz, is there some catch?  Also can you please give a bit more info on how you set up the 7000 to use these - I presume you start by setting the input impedance to 50 Ohms.

I don't have any experience with those particular probes, they look like lo-z ones. They will work with the 7000 but you'll need to manually set the 50ohm and vertical scaling manually as I doubt the readout is compatible: for example the Agilent N2874 (10:1) and N2876 (100:1) which have readout compatible with the 7000 isn't recognised by the MDO3000 I also have here. I suspect that only the 11k ohm 10X readout is "standard" across brands, but ISTBC. Not a big deal, it's only in recent years I've had scopes with readout capability, so I've been more than used to either manually setting the scope or much more frequently doing the conversion in my head, yes I am that old.

Just make sure that any probes you purchase have all the relevant accessories like spring/walking stick grounds and tips or you might end up with an expensive but largely useless tool!

[nctnico]

I'm using Tektronix P6156 Lo-z probes with my DSO7000 series but I have put a piece of kapton tape on the probe detect pin because these probes can have different attenuation factors which are not supported by the DSO7000. Setting the attenuation factor manually is easy though.

Hmm, there's quite a few P6156 probes on eBay at reasonable prices and I was surprised to see that they go up to 3.5 GHz, is there some catch?  Also can you please give a bit more info on how you set up the 7000 to use these - I presume you start by setting the input impedance to 50 Ohms.

Most of these probes are sold with the standard 1:10 attenuator which loads the signal with 500 Ohm. This may be too low for LVDS so getting one with the 1:20 or 1:100 attenuators is more of a challenge. Some might come with extra attenuators but since most sellers have no idea what they are selling it is not in the description. Until a few days ago I didn't even know the attenuators are stored in a rubber thingy with a lid. I had two of those storage containers; one was empty but the other one contained a 1:20 and 1:100 attenuator so I could put some more useful probes together.

As Howard noted it is important to look for complete probes: ground clip, probe housing, ground spring, etc. Setting up the DSO7000 is easy: set the input to 50 Ohms and adjust the probe scaling factor. You'll need to isolate the extra pin next to the BNC though. The reason I have the P6156 probes is because I used to own Tektronix scopes which could work with these probes but there is not much magic to them. The adjustment knob for the attenuator setting only adjust the resistance the scope sees on the pin next to the BNC connector.

[Gandalf_Sr]

The MSO7104B hasn't arrived yet and I'm still looking for probes.  eBay has many but 9/10 of them have no parts with them and many are asking ridiculous prices like the Agilent 1165A that has no accessories at the 'bargain' price of $495.
I've got some Rigol passive probes that are rated to $350 MHz (although they are 13 pF input capacitance) and 6-24 pF scope inputs; they will work for now and I'll bide my time to get complete probes at reasonable money which I call less than $150 per probe for good used passive ones.
I even started looking at the poor man's 1 GHz active probe article by David Jewsbury - I guess I'm feeling poor after shelling out for the MSO7104

[HighVoltage]

Take a look at the Agilent probes N2873A
I got 4 of them for my 7000 series scope and paid around $ 80 each from eBay USA.
They are 500 MHz, 400V, 10 MOhm, 10:1
Nice is the extra tiny tip diameter.

[artag]

I've bought 4 1165a probes over the last year, since I got a dso7014a. Not strictly necessary for this lower specced version of the scope but they are more beautiful than the stock 10074c.

However, one was missing accessories (nice and cheap, though !) and another came with two spikes instead of a spike and a hook. So I could do with another couple of hook tips. Are these only available as Keysight accessories or are they made by someone else ? I recall someone mentioning another source but not sure if they're the same series.

[Howardlong]

The MSO7104B hasn't arrived yet and I'm still looking for probes.  eBay has many but 9/10 of them have no parts with them and many are asking ridiculous prices like the Agilent 1165A that has no accessories at the 'bargain' price of $495.
I've got some Rigol passive probes that are rated to $350 MHz (although they are 13 pF input capacitance) and 6-24 pF scope inputs; they will work for now and I'll bide my time to get complete probes at reasonable money which I call less than $150 per probe for good used passive ones.
I even started looking at the poor man's 1 GHz active probe article by David Jewsbury - I guess I'm feeling poor after shelling out for the MSO7104

Patience will work.

I bought some 10073Cs from this seller, who still has some available. They came with all accessories, but I did buy four. eBay item 201270061358

Here are the pair of 1165As I bought for $75 for the pair 151837366588, again with all accessories.

[Gandalf_Sr]

I bought some 10073Cs from this seller, who still has some available. They came with all accessories, but I did buy four. eBay item 201270061358

Howard, thanks for the link, I just bought 3 10073Cs from that guy.

artag, if you search for 'Agilent probe' on eBay, and then sort by price low-high, you'll find some people offering probe tips & clips.

[Howardlong]

I bought some 10073Cs from this seller, who still has some available. They came with all accessories, but I did buy four. eBay item 201270061358

Howard, thanks for the link, I just bought 3 10073Cs from that guy.

artag, if you search for 'Agilent probe' on eBay, and then sort by price low-high, you'll find some people offering probe tips & clips.

Not sure if you saw this bit in the ad regarding buying 4 units:

Please note that if you take 4 piece or more, I will ship them via FedEx instead of registered post
( 2 to 4 working days to most countries )
And you will get a packet accessories for FREE ( complete )

So I don't know if you get the bits like probe idents and spring grounds if you buy less than 4 units. However they are standard 5mm probes so you may already have spring grounds.

[Gandalf_Sr]

No, I didn't see that but, by good luck, the seller is away until Jan 25th so I was able to add an extra one to the order and I sent them a message asking them to honor the FedEx + accessories deal.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention Howard.

[nctnico]

Still I think those probes are a waste of money. You never know how bad used probes are and their 500MHz spec is just nice on paper but has little practical meaning.
This kit with 2 probes costs $40:
http://uk.farnell.com/testec/tt-lf312-2-6-10020-2-6/probe-oscilloscope-150mhz-1-10/dp/4308098

A big plus is that these are switchable between 1:1 and 1:10.

[voltsandjolts]

Personally, I really like tek probes, readily available and active probes are much cheaper than agilent (used prices).
OK P6139s response probably isn't going to be as flat as spec'd agilent probes but for my 6034 bandwidth I'm happy to compromise.
Nimble Lilliput FA1000 external display staves off some of the 7000 series envy! (and is actually quite useful to move around the bench close to where I'm probing)

[KE5FX]

Nimble Lilliput FA1000 external display staves off some of the 7000 series envy! (and is actually quite useful to move around the bench close to where I'm probing)

Don't forget that your scope has a full-fledged VNC server built in.  You can display and control it from any monitor in the house with nothing more than an Ethernet cable.

[artag]

Still I think those probes are a waste of money. You never know how bad used probes are and their 500MHz spec is just nice on paper but has little practical meaning.
This kit with 2 probes costs $40:
http://uk.farnell.com/testec/tt-lf312-2-6-10020-2-6/probe-oscilloscope-150mhz-1-10/dp/4308098

A big plus is that these are switchable between 1:1 and 1:10.

I don't think that's a plus. Several of my cheap chinese probes (as shipped with all hantek/owon/rigol etc) have the x1/x10 switch. I tape them up to keep them in the x10 position. x1 probes are a rare and unusual need due to the huge bandwidth loss they suffer - if you need something like that you probably should be looking for differential probes instead.

On the other hand, I wish I could find x10/x100 probes. Preferably with a really stiff switch.

[Howardlong]

Still I think those probes are a waste of money. You never know how bad used probes are and their 500MHz spec is just nice on paper but has little practical meaning.
This kit with 2 probes costs $40:
http://uk.farnell.com/testec/tt-lf312-2-6-10020-2-6/probe-oscilloscope-150mhz-1-10/dp/4308098

A big plus is that these are switchable between 1:1 and 1:10.

The 10073Cs I received from that seller appeared to be brand new when I received them, from the packaging they arrived in I assumed they were new-old stock that were bundled with scopes from when Agilent moved over to the 10073D. I have been pretty happy with 10073Cs on an Agilent 54642D (500MHz scope) for some time.

The 1165As were brand new, in original unscuffed and unmarked cardboard Agilent packaging with the pouches inside and a full complement of accessories.

You are right though that when it comes to probing at these frequencies the capacitive loading of hi-z passive probes is usually a severely limiting factor: the TPS0250/0500/1000 probes that come with the MDO3000 are much better in that regard with their 3.9pF loading, but they only work with Tek scopes with the right interface. But better to have either a lo-z probe or a FET job, horses for courses in that regard.

Those Testecs have no readout by the way. I guess I'm spoilt nowadays though after many years of working it out in my head! Not sure practically how much use a 1X probe is to the OP, I can't remember the last time I used one, but there again I am sure it's of use to some. The 1X/10X switching is a double edged sword, if either you forget or it accidentally gets nudged out of the expected position.