REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon

[Armageddon]

Well, it might be easy and cheap to buy a suitable fan. Or does Owon use a special one?

Fortunately yes, is easy and cheap to buy a suitable fan. But is this the reason for not given answer to a client?

[Armageddon]

Reply #1180 on: Today at 01:10:46 AM

rf-loop, totally agree this time 

[lemon]

Probably, yours fan noise is from fan blades that hitting to metal corners.
Open the unit and look if the fan is centered OK!

[rf-loop]

Well, it might be easy and cheap to buy a suitable fan. Or does Owon use a special one?

Fortunately yes, is easy and cheap to buy a suitable fan. But is this the reason for not given answer to a client?

Of course this is not answer to client specially in situation where warranty is ok.
Of course IF customer ask, there can give help information what is suitable fan.

As far as I know, Owon also repair machines where is not warranty. In this case customer ned pay. (shipping is in this case prhaps primary cost)

Owon can also sell spare parts if needed. If you drop your oscilloscoe and display breaks. You can buy new display module from Owon and if some knobs also broken, just add these also to buy list.

And small example in service manual:
Fan:    JD-6010S1MO
LCD:   AT080TN52

[lemon]

Yes, rf-loop you have right!

From what I have seen from SDS Series Oscilloscopes Service Manual v1.0 there is a table with replaceable parts. I attached this section.

Still, main psu and adapter boards are replace-ables...

[rf-loop]

Yes, rf-loop you have right!

From what I have seen from SDS Series Oscilloscopes Service Manual v1.0 there is a table with replaceable parts. I attached this section.

Still, main psu and adapter boards are replace-ables...

New service manual is V1.2 (made 2013)
if I remember right this tble is still same but other information some more.

[TomC]

Today I do not know what kind is Owon new PSU what is going to mass production somewhere around start of June. And what changes they have made for adapter board (what is still more easy).

It's a shame that they don't keep you better informed about their progress on this issue. After all, I doubt that any other dealer has done as much to help solve this problem and to quiet down the flames from dissatisfied customers. However, knowing that they will start mass production sometime during early June may be useful information. I for one plan to contact them again during this period and ask for replacement boards, whether free or at a discount. At this point I feel that any kind of a response or offer would be better than this deafening silence. Perhaps others interested in a resolution should also contact Owon during this period, whether for the first time or for the umpteenth time if you got no response before!

[lemon]

Hi, everybody.

I think so that the fan of my SDS7102 has gone.
I can't hear it (and I don't remember if it is hearing in past) and the front part of oscilloscope is warming!
...

Today, Owon has sent me via DHL the new fan spare.
It was totally free from import taxes and fees!
I appreciated this quick supporting!
I sent at 20 May the problem at their chating room and today the spare comes to my door!

[Armageddon]

I'm glad for you lemon!

Why I was not so lucky? 

I really do not understand to OWON.
After many messages to OWON I get an answer, email reply (sales01@owon.com.cn):

"Dear Sir,
  Thank you for purchasing OWON product.
  Sorry,we have not sell FAN.
  Best regards
  Kim"

[TomC]

Today, Owon has sent me via DHL the new fan spare.
It was totally free from import taxes and fees!
I appreciated this quick supporting!
I sent at 20 May the problem at their chating room and today the spare comes to my door!

I will look at this as an omen, that maybe Owon is becoming more receptive to customer needs. This further encourages me to contact them again about the GND noise problem and ask for new boards. Good luck with repairing your scope!

[lemon]

I'm glad for you lemon!

Why I was not so lucky? 

I really do not understand to OWON.
After many messages to OWON I get an answer, email reply (sales01@owon.com.cn):

"Dear Sir,
  Thank you for purchasing OWON product.
  Sorry,we have not sell FAN.
  Best regards
  Kim"

It is strange!
Because English is not the native language nor us nor the Chinese, sometimes we do not understand what to say.
I do not know how you described your problem, but if they understand that you just want to buy a new fan probably their answer is correct.
Suggest three possible solutions:
1) To re-submit the problem.
2) ?o open the unit and look the fan according what we suggest you (fan centered, fan in properly position e.t.c)
3) Changed the fan alone. From what I saw is not something special, a simple fan that operates silently due to low supply. If you can't find fan with the same connector, cut the old connector and put it to new one.

A latter addition-1 = a fan picture from an older message from member cex (at page 34)
Some guide from assemby the unit, scecially from units made at the end of 2011 - first or second Quarterly of 2012.
https://www.box.com/s/pvg1dqtdonx192p4os0m


A latter addition-2 = Note for FAN (from page 36, aghp member) :

Findings in service:
If you hear some abnormal noise just after start or shaking/turning oscilloscope to different orientation.
FAN maybe positioned just littlebit wrong in factory. It need be enough well centered to air hole in Z-plate. Other way there is possible that fan blade(s) hit this Z-plate edge becouse rotor can move some amount axial direction just enough.
Repair: Loose screws and ceter (it can move enough).
This may also damage fan sleeve bearing. Check. If bad bearing: fan need of course change.

[luca1000]

This fan seem very similar (or identical) to standard PC Fan.

This fit the some size and dimension ?

[lemon]

The dimensions are: 60X60X11 (mm)

[luca1000]

5$ on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pcs-Brushless-DC-Cooling-11-Blade-Fan-6010s-12V-60x60x10mm-2-Wires-/160896610367?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25762f703f

[TomC]

Today, Owon has sent me via DHL the new fan spare.
It was totally free from import taxes and fees!
I appreciated this quick supporting!
I sent at 20 May the problem at their chating room and today the spare comes to my door!

I will look at this as an omen, that maybe Owon is becoming more receptive to customer needs. This further encourages me to contact them again about the GND noise problem and ask for new boards. Good luck with repairing your scope!

Today I left the following message at Owon's tech support chat room:

Dear Owon Tech support:

This is a follow up to my April 4, 2013 inquiry to which I did not receive a response. I bought my SDS71021246320 from Saelig in the USA on January 17, 2013. As I previously stated this is one of the units that has the "GND noise issue". This is the issue extensively discussed in the EEVblog and ForumUp forums on the internet. A DIY for modifying the PSU & adapter boards has also been posted but unfortunately it voids the Owon Warranty. It's been reported that Owon may be starting mass production of improved PSU and Adapter boards that include this modification during the month of June. I would greatly appreciate a response to the following questions:

1. Will the "GND noise" significantly decrease if these new boards are installed in my unit?

2. Will the Owon Warranty cover replacement of these boards in units affected by the "Gnd noise" issue?

3. Can I obtain these boards so I can fix my scope myself either free under the Warranty or at a discount if this is not possible?

A prompt and detailed response will be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Owon receives enough similar messages from other customers it may help them decide that it is time to publicly state their position on this issue, whatever that is!

[lemon]

I'm curious for their answer!
I'm quite sure that they have received enough similar messages from other customers.

Until now their answers is almost like that :
"About GND ISSUE, we will solve it try our best in future" or
"Unfortunately, there is no any warranty cover because there is no any effect at measurements by "gnd noise".

I hope, the Owon to has a final proposal to their customers for this issue, now.

[lemon]

...
With the probe to air, the noise level is almost 218mV with a lot of spikes (see the first attachment photo).
With the probe 5cm over the psu board the noise is 510mV. A lot of psu rf noise (see the second attachment photo).
With the probe over to IC1 (see the third attachment photo).
With the probe over to IC2 (see the fourth attachment photo)
With the probe over to IC3 (see the fifth attachment photo)
With the probe over to switch J2 (a lot of noise) (see the sixth attachment photo).

What I am thinking about all these.
First I am thinking to apply a decouple filtering with Oscon capacitors between the vcc and gnd each IC.
Second I am thinking to make a metal safety cage that include the psu board.

What are you thinking about these?

I done a trial with a metal cage for psu board. Not entire closed, because it is very difficult, but closed to the adaptor board side.
The results is positive, the noise is decreasing by 40%. Probably this eliminate the EMI noise that psu board has, but this is no easy diy solution. The free area of back case is a little and the construction of fully closed cage is impossible!

Finally, the rf-loop or siri diy proposals to circuits is the best approach but have warranty risks.
The most easy approach without warranty risks, are ferrites to all internal cables and probes too.

Except the Owon decides to give us a gift!

[Armageddon]

I hope that "OWON" clarify what decision will take. 

[TomC]

I'm curious for their answer!
I'm quite sure that they have received enough similar messages from other customers.

Until now their answers is almost like that :
"About GND ISSUE, we will solve it try our best in future" or
"Unfortunately, there is no any warranty cover because there is no any effect at measurements by "gnd noise".

I hope, the Owon to has a final proposal to their customers for this issue, now.

Apparently Owon hasn't ventured too far from previous statements, here is the response I just got:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Thank you for purchasing OWON product.

As to GND noise, we have noticed there is noise, but it is not the one will affect your testing result, as you know, every scope has noise affect by testing environment.

We have not plan and exact date to make change for it now, because it is not quite abnormal. Unlike the ones said in the blog. 

 

Thank you for understanding. "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I understand this correctly, they are saying that:

1. They know there is noise.

2. In their opinion the noise doesn't affect testing.

3. That this noise is similar to other external sources of noise you may encounter while using the scope.

4. That making changes to correct this noise is not a priority because it is closer to normal than abnormal.

5. That either the noise they see or the influence they believe it has in the usability of the scope doesn't match what is said about it in the EEVblog.

6. That they are hoping that the customer finds this explanation acceptable.

As I stated before, I view the GND noise on my scope as just an inconvenience. So I can't argue that some of the statements made by Owon are untrue. However, I find it strange and inappropriate, that a test equipment manufacturer would justify an obvious flaw in their equipment by pointing out the existence of external similar conditions that mimic it. Similarly, a car manufacturer could justify a car that pulls slightly to the right on a straight and level road, by reminding the customer that common road conditions would require him to steer in a similar way anyway.

In the end, Owon didn't directly answer the questions regarding Warranty coverage. However, the tone of the message leaves little doubt in my mind that at least at present they don't plan to offer Warranty coverage or any kind of a discount.

Ultimately, Owon will have to live with the results of their actions. Saving a few dollars now may seem as a wise financial decision. But only time will tell the actual cost of disappointing current customers and causing prospective buyers to take pause.

[meltbox360]

I emailed Saelig's and was told that the issue is insignificant. Still it is the issue that made me go back to the drawing board and keep looking at scopes a little longer.

[rf-loop]

Here also can find some information.

SDS7102"noisy GND" issue. Is it noisy, is it not?

Specially last post:
15 May 2013

[Armageddon]

Ultimately, Owon will have to live with the results of their actions. Saving a few dollars now may seem as a wise financial decision. But only time will tell the actual cost of disappointing current customers and causing prospective buyers to take pause.

Go to hell, OWON and all who defend it, scammers.     

[Hydrawerk]

Well, Siglent produces for Atten, BK Precision and LeCroy. Rigol produces for Agilent. Owon doesn't produce for any major brand, so Owon can be considered the lowest quality of these three.

[Armageddon]

I want to thank this forum, because somehow allows us to denounce these situations. And thanks also to David L. Jones, for his honesty, informing everyone when "rf-loop" aka "aghp" or "xxxx" had discussions with himself (under another alias) in this forum, probably for their own interest. That says a lot about you rf-loop.

I repeat:
Go to hell, OWON and all who defend it, scammers.

[digsys]

Well, Siglent produces for Atten, BK Precision and LeCroy. Rigol produces for Agilent. Owon doesn't produce for any major brand, so Owon can be considered the lowest quality of these three. 

By that logic, GW Instek is crap too? :-)  Trying to understand the logic.

... "rf-loop" aka "aghp" or "xxxx" .... Go to hell, OWON and all who defend it, scammers.

rf-loop is not owon. YES, he pulled a shifty, and got caught :-). We over it yet ? There's a lot of useful info as well, just filter out the stuff you
don't trust / like? After all, this IS the Internet yanno there's lots of bad / misleading / false stuff ALL over it !! True !! I read it !
I have a battery version and use it in the field quite a bit. I've had GND noise problems with ALL my CROs, even my genuine LeCroys !!
IF it IS a problem, I RE-THINK my grounding arrangements, it's what a techie does.
No need to get out the pitchfork and torch yet :-)   Play nice please