Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[Mr. Scram]

I noticed another problem with the physics in the movie. When the doors of the bombers are opened, wouldn't everyone be sucked into space? How far above the planet is there a working atmosphere and breathable air?

The Imperial Cruisers have huge docks with basically a window into space. Remember Rey just flying inside with her Space Coffin, alongside some Tie Fighters? I gather these craft use the same technology.

[hendorog]

I went to this movie yesterday with a group of kids and adults.

The story to be pretty weak and full of gaps. I don't care about the physics, it is the storyline. There were just too many WTF moments.
I won't bother going to the next one, they have ruined it by putting crap writers on the job.

[T3sl4co1l]

I went to this movie yesterday with a group of kids and adults.

The story to be pretty weak and full of gaps. I don't care about the physics, it is the storyline. There were just too many WTF moments.
I won't bother going to the next one, they have ruined it by putting crap writers on the job.

Suspect the "ruining" is intentional, to make the final (?) in the series feel more dramatic, and to open up more options, away from the tired old hero-story archetype.

Tim

[hendorog]

I went to this movie yesterday with a group of kids and adults.

The story to be pretty weak and full of gaps. I don't care about the physics, it is the storyline. There were just too many WTF moments.
I won't bother going to the next one, they have ruined it by putting crap writers on the job.

Suspect the "ruining" is intentional, to make the final (?) in the series feel more dramatic, and to open up more options, away from the tired old hero-story archetype.

Tim

Damn you, now I need to go to the next one to find out!
 

[T3sl4co1l]

Damn you, now I need to go to the next one to find out!

Or... don't make up your mind now, rather, wait for reviews -- accept mild spoilers -- and make up your mind then.

(I'm sorry, this much rational thought probably doesn't belong in a thread like this... )

Tim

[CatalinaWOW]

Of course the whole Star Wars series is an embodiment of the song "Along came John" a parody of the old Saturday serials which always ended with a cliff hanger.

That doesn't mean they couldn't tighten up the stories a bit.  They knew the early gross would be high, and total gross receipts will easily top a half a billion dollars.  With that kind of budget there should be some decent writers available.

[Mr. Scram]

Of course the whole Star Wars series is an embodiment of the song "Along came John" a parody of the old Saturday serials which always ended with a cliff hanger.

That doesn't mean they couldn't tighten up the stories a bit.  They knew the early gross would be high, and total gross receipts will easily top a half a billion dollars.  With that kind of budget there should be some decent writers available.

Exactly. It's Disney. They have pockets deep enough to have every remotely decent writer in the world on staff. I really don't understand how this came to be the end result, though I fear it might have to do with the classic Hollywood dynamic of people messing with your project. Anyone who is anyone will have his say and the results suffers because of it. It's like design by committee, except that there's a bit of a power struggle mixed in. When everyone is pulling at the wheel, you won't be sure where things end up.

[james_s]

It doesn't seem we have the same frame of reference. If you don't agree that's obviously fine, but again I think going to the cinema is more than just watching a movie on a big screen for a lot of people. You meet your friends, maybe have diner or a few drinks and go see the movie. You get to see what's hopefully a nice and entertaining movie on a subject you all apreciate and afterwards you get to share what you liked or disliked over some drinks.

It's like going to a sports game, a racing event or a play. In all cases, watching from home is easier, cheaper, more comfortable and you see more because cameras show you every angle. Yet people flock to these things and spend massive amounts of money on it. It's about an experience, and most often a social gathering, rather than just functionally seeing a movie. Or you could liken it to going to a restaurant. You can get food much cheaper and with less hassle if you make it yourself at home, but that's rarely the point of going out for dinner.

You couldn't pay me to go out to a sporting event, watching sports bores me to begin with and being in large crowds of people stresses me out. I'm just a natural introvert, being around large groups of people is stressful and draining. I enjoy small gatherings of select groups of people far more. I'll take peace and quiet any day over a noisy crowd.

[Cyberdragon]

Is it bad that I liked the cute animals? The little puffin things, the horse things with big ears, and those adorable glass foxes...

The scene that cringed me the most though is when those little creatures kept crying over Chewbaca trying to eat one of them that was already cooked! I was like "it's already dead, shut up and don't watch you stupid things!" And it was awkwardly too long too. If they were going to make the joke, the last bit of that scene would have sufficed.

As for the bomber physics, of course star destroyers have artificial gravity, people walk in them. Perhaps that gravitational feild is also what stopped the fleeing ships from drifting? (They actually seemed to be pulled back) And maybe they didn't use lightspeed weapons before because they thought something more horrid would happen like a black hole if something at lightspeed collided with something. People could have assumed things in that universe too...

[T3sl4co1l]

As for the bomber physics, of course star destroyers have artificial gravity, people walk in them. Perhaps that gravitational feild is also what stopped the fleeing ships from drifting? (They actually seemed to be pulled back) And maybe they didn't use lightspeed weapons before because they thought something more horrid would happen like a black hole if something at lightspeed collided with something. People could have assumed things in that universe too...

I would suppose that the bomber's internal gravity provided the push.

One mustn't think too deeply about how rational a given system is -- remember it's fantasy, not scifi.

Tim

[Mr. Scram]

I don't quite get why people are discussing the bombs falling bit so much. There's a number of explanations that are entirely consistent with the universe portrayed that would work well, with or without magic.

What bothered me more about that scene is that the bombers are so slow and fly in a tight formation. I get that this refers to WWII bombing raids, but even back then the aircraft didn't fly so close that they'd regularly hit each other like dominoes. If you really want to go that way, you might want to do more with gunning turrets and waves of enemies coming in and being fought off, while your friends are being picked off.

[Syntax_Error]

I don't quite get why people are discussing the bombs falling bit so much. There's a number of explanations that are entirely consistent with the universe portrayed that would work well, with or without magic.

What bothered me more about that scene is that the bombers are so slow and fly in a tight formation. I get that this refers to WWII bombing raids, but even back then the aircraft didn't fly so close that they'd regularly hit each other like dominoes. If you really want to go that way, you might want to do more with gunning turrets and waves of enemies coming in and being fought off, while your friends are being picked off.

No doubt. I have never heard anyone complain about gravity in previous Star Wars movies (of Earthly strength and always pointing toward local down, regardless of orientation) inside smaller space ships such as the Falcon, so why is it so hard to accept bombs accelerating toward another ship? It's not reality.

This isn't to say everything gets a pass, but it is all rather subjective. I enjoyed certain individual scenes in the movie, but as a whole, the movie was awful and if it weren't for my kids' obvious enjoyment, it would have been a bad experience.

[Circlotron]

And when everyone is shooting at everyone else, why even with such advanced technology do they miss their target so often???

[Mr. Scram]

And when everyone is shooting at everyone else, why even with such advanced technology do they miss their target so often???

There's one simple and obvious answer to that: the movie wouldn't be any fun if everyone died right away. It'd be somewhat Shakespearian, but not a lot of fun.

[Echo88]

This thread reminds me so much of the simpsons-equivalent:  

[Mr. Scram]

This thread reminds me so much of the simpsons-equivalent:  

This thread reminds me nothing of that episode. I hate how anyone who has doubts about the choices made is labelled a die hard fan who can't just enjoy a flick. Even if you're fully unfamiliar with Star Wars, there are plenty of issues with the story. You can't explain those away by magic either, as a universe without some boundaries is a boring universe without tension. Superman flies in and saves everyone, boring. You need to add some kryptonite to create tension.

Had this not been a Star Wars branded movie I don't think I would have liked it that much more, to be honest. A bad story is a bad story.

[T3sl4co1l]

This thread reminds me nothing of that episode. I hate how anyone who has doubts about the choices made is labelled a die hard fan who can't just enjoy a flick. Even if you're fully unfamiliar with Star Wars, there are plenty of issues with the story. You can't explain those away by magic either, as a universe without some boundaries is a boring universe without tension. Superman flies in and saves everyone, boring. You need to add some kryptonite to create tension.

I didn't find the battles exciting at all because it was obvious no one important was going to die*.

*The part with Leia on the bridge would've been dramatic, for a number of reasons relevant to the movie as-written as well as real practical reasons (RIP ).  But nooo, they had to have her pull a Superman there.

Tim

[Decoman]

I want to here suggest to Disney, for the next movie, a more appropriate title that I suspect would nicely allude to the excess silliness in the new movies:

"Star Wars: Sith Happens"

[Electro Detective]

I want to here suggest to Disney, for the next movie, a more appropriate title that I suspect would nicely allude to the excess silliness in the new movies:

"Star Wars: Sith Happens!"

Another winner for T-shirt printers and tattoo parlors   

[BrianHG]

An improvement:

[Decoman]

Someone made this. Compositing 'The Room' with 'The Last Jedi'.

There's this funny detail around half the way into the video, which is only visible when viewing the video in higher res.

[Decoman]

I didn't plan to write more here in this thread, but I found this interesting video that points out the importance of having set things up, and then having things pay off.

What I find interesting with this general idea of having a setup in a movie, and a payoff, is that which I think of as the importance of 'introduction' in movies in general. And I realize now that my idea of "the power of introduction" seems similar to this idea of a setup and a pay-off.



I would argue that my notion of "the importance of introduction" in movies, pertains to both 'pacing' and a 'deeper meaning' in movies, by which it would be critical of a director to have/get a good idea of exactly what is being, or what has been, introduced in a movie, regardless of it being real (a character, or maybe a place) or imaginary (like an abstract idea). For me, what is interesting with something being introduced, is not so much there being an expectation of things you might think you will be seeing, but that having a clear idea of things being introduced is important to contain a story as perceived by a viewer (as opposed to a director's ideas about there being a particular plot). I suppose I have this general idea of how various ideas in a movie are made to be interconnected by being very careful in precisely how you introduce various things in a movie.

Presumably, a proper introduction might present an actor in a meaningful way, such that you aren't suddenly seeing a famous and recognizable actor on screen playing himself, but that you buy into this world portrayed in the movie, in which any famous actor takes the second seat after the context of the situation.

Also, by being very careful in how you introduce things, I think you will achieve a contrasting effect to previously shown locations, and so a change of scenery has the powerful effect of simply making you forget the previous scene entirely, while also maintaining a momentum in the plot/story being shown.

And, so, presumably, as important it would be to start showing new things, it is also important to stop showing older things, but in a graceful way, to better avoid the viewer getting annoyed about perceived plot holes, but to keep the story going.

I am rehashing some older ideas of mine here, so I fear I am forgetting something. Hm. I guess when I was thinking about what I call "the power of introduction" in movies, I was probably mainly concerned about the notion of there being 'tension', or, 'suspense' in movies. And, that a repeated form of introduction would deflate tension, while also failing to achieve a sense of suspense, if only getting to repeat something that had already been shown earlier in the movie.

[MarkS]

I didn't like it and I don't know why. It's more or less instinctual, as though something in the back of my mind is objecting, but I have no conscious understanding as to why. It was good, but... not?

Don't get me wrong, the abominations (Episodes 1-3) *spits on ground* rank at the bottom, but this one is just slightly above them.

[knapik]

Don't get me wrong, the abominations (Episodes 1-3) *spits on ground* rank at the bottom, but this one is just slightly above them.

Sure, episode 1 was ruined by Jar Jar, but episodes 2 & 3 were fine.

[Mr. Scram]

I can honestly say I enjoyed Episode 1 when it was released. Sure I was a bit younger and problably less skeptical. There's obviously a couple of flaws that didn't work out well. Regardless, there were some memorable additions to the universe and I enjoyed the experience overall.