Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?

[andersm]

Perhaps if a vulnerable member of your family had been reduced to penury and paranoid distrust of the people who loved him you might be less sympathetic?

Call me old-fashioned, but I still think murder is a bit worse. (Going way off-topic, so I'll end this sub-thread here.)

[MFX]

Just for the record I can't stand the Daily Mail (or most other newspapers for that matter) either. I prefer to form my own opinions rather than be slowly brainwashed.

Martin.

[dustout]

In response to the Flir E4 teardown linked to a page or so back I'd love to see Mike dig into that more.  The startup logs dumped showed some promising stuff about the down-sampling of the higher resolution sensor and "capping" of features in the higher-end models.  It was be pretty cool to be able to hack an upgrade into an existing unit.  Of course they may not have made that easy to do.  I have an i3 though which I recently purchased so even if the E4 was potentially hackable it may not work the same on my unit.  Very interesting though.

These Mu guys certainly would never be able to pull off anything near the complexity needed to make this happen; not that they ever realistically could... they are just playing off people not knowing how tough this is and it's quite obvious if people were paying a little attention and not trying to convince themselves otherwise...

[mikeselectricstuff]

In response to the Flir E4 teardown linked to a page or so back I'd love to see Mike dig into that more.  The startup logs dumped showed some promising stuff about the down-sampling of the higher resolution sensor and "capping" of features in the higher-end models.  It was be pretty cool to be able to hack an upgrade into an existing unit.  Of course they may not have made that easy to do.  I have an i3 though which I recently purchased so even if the E4 was potentially hackable it may not work the same on my unit.  Very interesting though.

These Mu guys certainly would never be able to pull off anything near the complexity needed to make this happen; not that they ever realistically could... they are just playing off people not knowing how tough this is and it's quite obvious if people were paying a little attention and not trying to convince themselves otherwise...

You're a bit late to the party - check the teardown thread. E4 has been hacked this morning, i series highly likely to be hackable, probably enough in to in the thread to figure it out.

[ixfd64]

Anyone else seen the latest comments at the Indiegogo page? They're hilarious.

[Alex]

Meter      m    Length
Kilogram   kg    Mass
Second   s    Time
Mu            s^21  Time (commonly used in cosmology)   
Ampere   A    Electric current
Kelvin   K    Thermodynamic temperature
Mole           mol    Amount of substance
Candela   cd    Luminous intensity

 

[EEVblog]

And this:
https://medium.com/p/c00da75ae6ae
Were backers still cling to hope that Mu will actually produce anything.

they are continuing development in the face of substantial negativity

Hmm, when was the last time the backers saw any actual evidence of development? - it was 4 months ago when they showed a development PCB 

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,
It has been 3 weeks since an update from Mu Optics.

I think it is time to move the project to IndieNoGo 

Jay_Diddy_B

[Corporate666]

And this:
https://medium.com/p/c00da75ae6ae
Were backers still cling to hope that Mu will actually produce anything.

they are continuing development in the face of substantial negativity

Hmm, when was the last time the backers saw any actual evidence of development? - it was 4 months ago when they showed a development PCB 

I would never wish anyone to get scammed out of their money, but the mindset that leads to the type of reasoning in that website boggles my mind.  He says the updates have become more realistic?  They haven't actually given any real information at all.  Mu is bordering on "fallen off the face of the earth" levels of communication.  Their weekly updates are now monthly updates which are quick one-two paragraphs regurgitating the same "we are continuing to work on blah blah" stuff while giving no new information.

The question I keep coming back to is... IF they are not actually working on the camera at all, or working on it an hour or two per week and achieving pretty much zero progress, would their actions be any different than what we are seeing?  Would their updates be lacking any more detail?  And my answer is no... there is absolutely no difference in what they would be doing/saying if they were not making any progress at all.  And given that any substantive progress would be shouted from the highest rooftops, I conclude they are not making any progress.

Seems obvious to me.  Must be some sort of Stockholm syndrome keeping people on Mu's side here 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hi,
It has been 3 weeks since an update from Mu Optics.

I think it is time to move the project to IndieNoGo 

Jay_Diddy_B

IndieDoDo .. where failed projects go to die. RIP.

[EEVblog]

I think it is time to move the project to IndieNoGo 

Domain taken!
http://www.indienogo.com/

[EEVblog]

And given that any substantive progress would be shouted from the highest rooftops, I conclude they are not making any progress.

That has been the point from day 1 (which is now more than 9 months ago, + that they claimed to have worked on it before then too).
Given that no thermal image has ever been released, the only conclusion that anyone can come to is that they have never had (and still do not have) any hardware that has ever produced a thermal image.

[EEVblog]

As one of the backers pointed out, this is quite likely to be the intended sensor in the Mu:
http://www.ulis-ir.com/uploads/Products/Nano160P-UL02152.pdf

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

The time between Mu Optics updates is now measured in months. It has been a month since the last update.

Soon the time between updates will be measured on a Geological timescale.

Jay_Diddy_B

[EEVblog]

The time between Mu Optics updates is now measured in months. It has been a month since the last update.

How anyone can still have money in this is beyond me 

[timb]

I just read this thread over the course of a couple of days, it's like binging on a new TV show on Netflix. The point where you catch up to the current season is awfully depressing. I obviously know how this story ends, but still want to see what happens.

My take is that it *was* outright fraud at the start. I think they did some digging, perhaps on Alibaba, saw a thermopile sensor or whatever that was cheap and said, "Hey, we can make those!" The guy is in video editing, so a slick presentation was easy. I'm sure they intended to produce something, but once the campaign finished they started to realize it wasn't quite as easy as they had thought and BOM costs shot up quickly.

The fraud comes in because they flat out told people they knew what they were doing and had a working prototype in hand when they had nothing. Despite the image of the prototype, I seriously doubt they're getting useable images out of the sensor even at this point. If they did, it would have been the first thing they'd have posted.

As others have pointed out, the updates have been getting spaced out longer each time. This is actually a tactic some of these failed projects use, as people tend not to notice updates taking a week longer each time and at a certain point,, they just cease. By this time a lot of people have forgotten about the project. This generally isn't so much about running away with the money (as the money is normally long spent) as it is having an easy way out for people like this who get in over their heads.

Delays are to be expected in a project, even people who have produced similar products before, like Pebble. (They shipped 6 months past their deadline and just now have iOS Notifications working, better late than never though.)

As for the backers still hanging on, it takes a special level of cognitive dissonance to still support this project with nothing but a few updates, two fake videos and one picture of a dev board. Frankly, they deserve to lose their $200.

[Rasz]

Frankly, they deserve to lose their $200.

This is why >95% (or more) of fraud is NEVER EVER reported. People that got conned are too ashamed.
In reality this looked doable for anyone without electronics background.

[Sparkey_500]

I requested a refund on the 20/11 and received it on the 27/11.
I got an response from them within 24 hours confirming my refund request.
I originally paid $150 USD at the time was $149.06 AUD
Now with my $150 USD i have $160.38 AUD

Profit. 

[mrflibble]

Good to know you got a refund. So now you can put that $150++ into a Flir E4. At least that is 320x240 non-vaporware.

[EEVblog]

I can't wait for the next update!
They are running out of excuses now, as the last one said just a bit more work on the firmware and they will be cutting cheques, and that was a month ago...

[cloudscapes]

Better and more pro hardware, eh?

So, preparing for the eventual "we bit off more than we can chew with the new expensive hardware and now we have lost everything" update, I guess.

Calling it.

[notzippy]

So after two months a  update...

Hello all,

It's been a very busy month, but we are excited to say that we are nearly there. We've got a new prototype board which works great, a fantastic final case design (one of the causes of our recent delays), and are finishing up the rest of our partnership and manufacturing deals. Along with this update we will be posting a video rendering of the new case(we haven't received the prototype cases yet or we would be posting pictures).

We know that there has been a lot of frustration with how little we've been able to share with you all, and with the project delays, and we do feel very bad about this. We really do wish we could have included you more in the development process, but in the process of designing the final camera, we have been held under several non-disclosure agreements which have limited how much we can put out in the public

domain.

We would like to thank you all for your patience. While it is common for technology projects to run over schedule, we know how frustrating that can be for early backers. One of our main goals now is finalizing a production and distribution schedule and providing you with a sense of when you'll be receiving your cameras. Over the next few weeks we look forward to giving you more information as we prepare to manufacture and deliver the cameras to our supporters.

Cheers,

The MuOptics Team.

And lets all bring in the new year with some fantastic wishes...

Nz

[EEVblog]

Latest update:

Hello all,
It's been a very busy month, but we are excited to say that we are nearly there. We've got a new prototype board which works great, a fantastic final case design (one of the causes of our recent delays), and are finishing up the rest of our partnership and manufacturing deals. Along with this update we will be posting a video rendering of the new case(we haven't received the prototype cases yet or we would be posting pictures).
We know that there has been a lot of frustration with how little we've been able to share with you all, and with the project delays, and we do feel very bad about this. We really do wish we could have included you more in the development process, but in the process of designing the final camera, we have been held under several non-disclosure agreements which have limited how much we can put out in the public domain.
We would like to thank you all for your patience. While it is common for technology projects to run over schedule, we know how frustrating that can be for early backers. One of our main goals now is finalizing a production and distribution schedule and providing you with a sense of when you'll be receiving your cameras. Over the next few weeks we look forward to giving you more information as we prepare to manufacture and deliver the cameras to our supporters.
Cheers,
The MuOptics Team.

Still nothing to show! 

[sleemanj]

Along with this update we will be posting a video rendering of the new case(we haven't received the prototype cases yet or we would be posting pictures).

Charles McGrath posted an announcement 4 months ago... We have been in design and manufacturing discussions with several case manufacturers over the last few months

Charles McGrath posted an announcement 6 months ago...
Sorry for the delayed update again, it’s been a very busy week here. We received new case models, and have been discussing slight changes now that we’ve actually been able to hold the new models with the new materials.

Charles McGrath posted an announcement 6 months ago...
Sorry for the long silence. It’s been an incredibly busy week. New PCBs, new cases, new equipment.

Charles McGrath posted an announcement 7 months ago... As we work to get the case and body of the imager finalized, we have come up with a few slight modifications to the body that we are currently considering. If those ideas go anywhere, I’ll try to post pictures of the possible changes down the road.

John McGrath posted an announcement 7 months ago...
 Machining a final case prototype takes days, not weeks. The engineer in charge of that is also quick and responsive.

Those McGrath boys sure are hard case.

[mikeselectricstuff]

We really do wish we could have included you more in the development process, but in the process of designing the final camera, we have been held under several non-disclosure agreements which have limited how much we can put out in the public

NDA's from who exactly ?

Just more pathetic  blatent LIES
Give up now guys. nobody believes a word you say. Admit you're sunk.