Author Topic: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?  (Read 482212 times)

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Offline ivan747

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #825 on: March 06, 2014, 11:59:22 pm »
I love their updates, the naiveness brings me joy :D
Is it only me? (the backers won't share this opinion with me)
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #826 on: March 07, 2014, 12:14:51 am »
If you want to hook them consider to contact the relevant authorities.

Who are the relevant authorities?
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #827 on: March 07, 2014, 05:57:42 am »
If you want to hook them consider to contact the relevant authorities.

Who are the relevant authorities?

This depends on what you think has been done, or not done to you. Depending on that you might think of looking for some who enforce business practice or consumer rights. Or criminal law. Or for some special cases, enforce tax laws.
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Offline edavid

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #828 on: March 07, 2014, 06:01:07 am »
If you want to hook them consider to contact the relevant authorities.

Who are the relevant authorities?

This depends on what you think has been done, or not done to you. Depending on that you might think of looking for some who enforce business practice or consumer rights. Or criminal law. Or for some special cases, enforce tax laws.

So in other words, you have no idea either!
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #829 on: March 07, 2014, 06:07:45 am »
If you want to hook them consider to contact the relevant authorities.

Who are the relevant authorities?

This depends on what you think has been done, or not done to you. Depending on that you might think of looking for some who enforce business practice or consumer rights. Or criminal law. Or for some special cases, enforce tax laws.

So in other words, you have no idea either!

Don't be so sure. The thing is a backer has to decide that on his/her own. E.g. a backer might find the need to contact

https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/To%20Police1

or

http://illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/filecomplaint.html

depending on what a backer thinks has happened and what kind of help he wants. And seriously, if a backer can't make up his mind of what has happened and how he had his money got departed from him then well, what kind of help do you expect to get? And if you can't even google that in five minutes, but want to be spoon feed, well ...
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 06:11:50 am by Bored@Work »
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Offline edavid

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #830 on: March 07, 2014, 06:16:27 am »
And seriously, if a backer can't make up his mind of what has happened and how he had his money got departed from him then well, what kind of help do you expect to get? And if you can't even google that in five minutes, but want to be spoon feed, well ...

Non-sequitur.  I am quite sure that the Mu people are scammers who took money (not mine) under false pretenses, but I have no idea who the relevant authorities might be, and I don't see how a Google search would help me figure that out.  I doubt that the police or DA would take any action.  I respectfully submit that you are talking through your hat.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 06:18:25 am by edavid »
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #831 on: March 07, 2014, 06:24:24 am »
And seriously, if a backer can't make up his mind of what has happened and how he had his money got departed from him then well, what kind of help do you expect to get? And if you can't even google that in five minutes, but want to be spoon feed, well ...

Non-sequitur.  I am quite sure that the Mu people are scammers who took money (not mine) under false pretenses, but I have no idea who the relevant authorities might be, and I don't see how a Google search would help me figure that out.  I doubt that the police or DA would take any action.  I respectfully submit that you are talking through your hat.

Don't give me that bullshit. You have never any guarantee that any authority really cares and takes action. But if you think some guys in Chicago Illinois, by your own words, "are scammers who took money ... under false pretenses", why do you think the Chicago police department or the Illinois DA would be the wrong authorities?
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #832 on: March 07, 2014, 06:38:58 am »
Non-sequitur.  I am quite sure that the Mu people are scammers who took money (not mine) under false pretenses, but I have no idea who the relevant authorities might be, and I don't see how a Google search would help me figure that out.  I doubt that the police or DA would take any action.

You start from local laws and work your way up. So that means state based law first. B@W links are probably a very appropriate place to start.
The problem with these sorts of crowd funded projects is that:
a) Obviously they are not going to admit they did anything fraudulent, so that means a lengthy lawsuit to convict anyone of anything.
b) People did donate the money, they were not buying goods, so those good and services laws might well be quite useless.
c) It's easy for any crowd funded developer to show that they at least tried to develop the product, and they can show progress and intent, even if it is just waffle. That means people donated the money for them to try, and that's what the did. There is no law that says they have to be any good at doing that. So unless someone admits to scam, any conviction I think would be very difficult.

So it wouldn't surprise me in the least if any state or federal government department or attorney is going to go after them and investigate beyond (if you are lucky) an initial "please explain" enquiry. Then of course they can explain with waffle and the authorities will have to decide whether or not to pursue then in an area of law that has never really been tested before AFAIK. I think the changes are pretty much buckleys.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #833 on: March 07, 2014, 07:51:58 am »
Right, I think they can't be convicted if they tried but failed. But they wrote that they had something working and mass production will start, and if they can't prove it, this might be sufficient to convict them for attempt to defraud.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #834 on: March 07, 2014, 08:55:53 am »
Right, I think they can't be convicted if they tried but failed. But they wrote that they had something working and mass production will start, and if they can't prove it, this might be sufficient to convict them for attempt to defraud.

If that's the case, sure, but that would likely require someone(s) to sue them. Doubt anyone else is going to care enough.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #835 on: March 07, 2014, 10:18:54 am »
Let us all not forget that Mu have been providing full refunds upon request. If they stop doing so, there may be an issue, otherwise they are not actually doing anything criminal. As has been stated before, the investors entered into a speculative project that had the potential to provide what they wanted......was there ever a written guarantee that the project would succeed ?

They have likely made money in terms of interest on the >$200K funds, but that is unlikely to be enough to take them to court.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #836 on: March 07, 2014, 10:41:26 am »
Let us all not forget that Mu have been providing full refunds upon request. If they stop doing so, there may be an issue, otherwise they are not actually doing anything criminal.

If they have lied about progress etc, then that can most certainly be fraud. Anything good they may have done can't nullify that. If they have not lied, then they have nothing to worry about and basically can't be touched. There is nothing illegal about trying and failing.
 

Offline dexters_lab

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #837 on: March 07, 2014, 11:21:40 am »
i guess the problem is if they deliberately setup the project to defraud and that would have to be proven to be the case which would require evidence.

given they have been handing out refunds then you might as well just get your dosh back and go buy something else or you'll just end up throwing more money away

Online Fraser

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #838 on: March 07, 2014, 11:37:26 am »
Whilst I know that this whole project has been very interesting for us onlookers and less fun for those who backed it, I am reminded of some wise words that were shared with me many years ago.....

We have a finite number of years,days, hours, minutes and seconds to live. We are all terminal. Do not waste that precious time on matters that will cause you sadness or regret.

To those who invested in the project I say.... get a refund, move on, and if you really want a thermal camera...... buy one, use it, enjoy it and and have no regrets. Do not waste your precious time on this, as unlike money, that is one expenditure that cannot be refunded or offset !

This thinking also applies in other life scenarios. You need to be selfish with your life clock and use it for positive accomplishments so as not to die with regrets.

Fraser
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Offline Rasz

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #839 on: March 07, 2014, 07:52:14 pm »
but revenge is a sweet mistress :) I could Imagine at least one backer hiking across US, wearing a diaper, to confront those scammers in meatspace
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Online Fraser

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #840 on: March 07, 2014, 08:46:29 pm »
 ;D
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #841 on: March 07, 2014, 09:55:41 pm »
given they have been handing out refunds then you might as well just get your dosh back and go buy something else or you'll just end up throwing more money away

Yes, I don't understand why anyone had stuck around for this long and not asked for their money back. There have probably been half a dozen "enough is enough" threshold points to anyone technically knowledgeable.
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #842 on: March 08, 2014, 01:41:05 am »
I'm not playing the devils advocate but how is it a scam or fraud if you can get a refund? :-//
If they were genuine wouldn't they have burnt up some of the money getting to the point where they realise "shit this aint gonna work". If this is the case do they have to wear the cost?
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #843 on: March 08, 2014, 01:43:15 am »
I'm not playing the devils advocate but how is it a scam or fraud if you can get a refund? :-//
If they were genuine wouldn't they have burnt up some of the money getting to the point where they realise "shit this aint gonna work". If this is the case do they have to wear the cost?

Madoff let people take money out, but he was still a fraud.

If Mu has spent any money at all, they won't be able to give refunds to everyone.
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #844 on: March 08, 2014, 01:46:09 am »
I guess they have ran out of budget or will to continue. But they keep refunding money, as somebody said earlier, this is a strage pattern for a scam and a strange pattern for a legit failed project, I mean, one cannot be so naive to continue with this project having so little time and funds, or so insisting when lying or so willing to refund when scamming.
 

Online zapta

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #845 on: March 08, 2014, 03:00:07 am »
I guess they have ran out of budget or will to continue. But they keep refunding money, as somebody said earlier,...

Take the money while you still can, even 10 cents on the dollar.  If not, I have a bridge to sell you...
 

Offline mamalala

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #846 on: March 11, 2014, 03:13:18 am »
I know things aren't looking good.  So it appears that I (and my money) am a lemming to the end!   |O

But I just don't understand the lack of updates from these guys  :-//

There is only so much bullshit that one can make up until it becomes obvious to even the most stupid folks. At which point it is better to not say anything at all than to wake up said folks and having them demand their money back as well...

Greetings,

Chris
 

Offline mamalala

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #847 on: March 11, 2014, 03:16:08 am »
If you still have money in [...]

... i have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell. Rather cheap as well! Contact me!

Alternatively i have a boatload of money that i need to ship out of a third world country. I only need some advance payment for all that nasty papers and and bank documents and stuff!

;)

Greetings,

Chris
 

Offline mamalala

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #848 on: March 11, 2014, 03:21:56 am »
A discussion point at the beginning of this project was how they would be able to offer a thermal sensor and lens combination at the price point stated.

[...]

With the news of the FLIR ONE Mu may as well pack up their bags and find a new project anyway.

I think they were very well aware of the costs right from the start, which is why they made an offer "to good to be true". And many fell for it. After all, there was no big, nasty corporation behind it that was only for the monies, right? And they went on and on as long as they could.

But then, out of the blue, FLIR came up with the FLIR-One thingy. And all of a sudden they _really_ went "away". One has to wonder (not so much, actually) why that is....

Greetings,

Chris
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?
« Reply #849 on: March 11, 2014, 03:29:36 am »
But then, out of the blue, FLIR came up with the FLIR-One thingy. And all of a sudden they _really_ went "away". One has to wonder (not so much, actually) why that is....

I do hope they don't just disappear, it's been a fun ride (for those not invested) watching and wondering how and what type of BS the next update will contain.
To most of the technical audience here it was obvious this project just wasn't going to happen from the get-go, so most have been waiting for the inevitable finale...
 


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