Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 714549 times)

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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #400 on: February 02, 2020, 07:49:55 pm »
To say 90% you´re right.
The build in waveforms could be also generated with other equipment you use frequentlier than this board.
Also the decoding signals.
But actually I don´t have an pattern generator or a good frequencygenerator, so this board will help me at the moment.
And the "true price" (after selling some parts) for me is cheap.
So it´s ok in my case, others shouldn´t buy it for the reason you named.



Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #401 on: February 02, 2020, 08:16:59 pm »

So I think about to buy the siglent demo board, for having some basic test signals at home, not only for my actual scope.
What are your thoughts on this ?
It´s price doesn´t matter to me, I´m going to sell some of my not longer used test things, so it would cost me the half or less.
Have you studied the manual ?
https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/stb-3/

It produces more than just a few 'ordinary' signals some of which will test your abilities to get stable triggering.
As you fiddle with a few brands it might be a useful tool to compare capabilities.
I've had one for a good few years and use it often when demonstrating DSO's to customer when they call to collect or buy.
For a distributor, it makes sense to have one.  For the end user, no thank you

I would love to have one, but it is too expensive.... If it were 30-50€, I would get one right away.
At 225 € it is almost the price of the cheapest scope... So no thanks...

 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #402 on: February 02, 2020, 09:10:56 pm »
And the "true price" (after selling some parts) for me is cheap.
So it´s ok in my case ...
Reasoning of a true test equipment addict ;)
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #403 on: February 02, 2020, 09:26:30 pm »
It has the same right to exist like the leo pulse -gen... ;)

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #404 on: February 04, 2020, 09:20:21 pm »
...But it got more functions.
Today the board has arrived, looks nice, the downloadable manual leave questions open.
But with this, I can test the decoder functions without taken the scope at work.
And this what I´ll do in the next time because the whole decoding functions of the sds2104X+ wasn´t touched until now.




 
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Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #405 on: February 04, 2020, 10:59:42 pm »
...But it got more functions.
Today the board has arrived, looks nice, the downloadable manual leave questions open.
But with this, I can test the decoder functions without taken the scope at work.
And this what I´ll do in the next time because the whole decoding functions of the sds2104X+ wasn´t touched until now.
Yes the manual doesn't go through all its capabilities as some are self explanatory.
It will take a few hours to get to fully know it and the few configurable outputs.

I fitted 3mm stainless dome nuts to the threaded legs to minimize scratching of delicate surfaces you might use it on however if you have nylon dome nuts they would be even better.

A nice option if Siglent were to consider it is to incorporate the current probe deskew PCB into the STB3 and then have a really useful accessory in a single PCB.
https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/df2001a/
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #406 on: February 06, 2020, 08:49:34 pm »
Today I got for the first time the probes in my hands, no joke.. ;)
Hm-hm...
Looks a little bit cheap, but the funniest thing:
The scope got auto-sensing inputs, but the delivered probes couldn´t be sensed….A little bit disappointing. :(
They got 200Mhz bandwith, maybe there will be better probes delivered with the 350Mhz model.
Meanwhile I´ve played around with the demoboard:

Quote
It will take a few hours to get to fully know it and the few configurable outputs.

I´m afraid this is the truth. ::)
I couldn´t decode the spi signal, must spend more time with it - For 200 bucks, a little more explanation should be expected.

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #407 on: February 06, 2020, 09:19:09 pm »
Today I got for the first time the probes in my hands, no joke.. ;)
Hm-hm...
Looks a little bit cheap, but the funniest thing:
The scope got auto-sensing inputs, but the delivered probes couldn´t be sensed….A little bit disappointing. :(
They got 200Mhz bandwith, maybe there will be better probes delivered with the 350Mhz model.
Err well, exactly what model are the probes and if 10x/1x switchable they won't have autosense capabilities. Period.
Only fixed attenuation probes have autosense however as you bought the cheapest model it comes with PP510 or PP215 1x/10x switchable probes whereas SDS2354X+ has 10x fixed autosense probes.
$10/$27 vs $60 ea.
https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/passive-probes/

Quote
Meanwhile I´ve played around with the demoboard:

Quote
It will take a few hours to get to fully know it and the few configurable outputs.

I´m afraid this is the truth. ::)
I couldn´t decode the spi signal, must spend more time with it - For 200 bucks, a little more explanation should be expected.
It presumes you know how to dedicate the bus and clock signals to channels and how to configure them and set the thresholds. You'll work it out.  ;)
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #408 on: February 06, 2020, 09:31:41 pm »
Hi,
We use spi signals on our control electronics for a couple of years... ;)

Quote
as you bought the cheapest model

Oh sorry, my fault..


Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #409 on: February 06, 2020, 09:35:06 pm »
Still, what kind of crap is it to sell a scope with probes that can't be automatically detected???
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #410 on: February 06, 2020, 09:49:40 pm »
Still, what kind of crap is it to sell a scope with probes that can't be automatically detected???
Have you ever seen 1x/10x switchable probes which can be detected by an oscilloscope? Especially the cheap probes?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #411 on: February 06, 2020, 10:04:39 pm »
I think, this is not the point.
Siglent delivered to the 1400 bucks model the cheapest probes you can get - sure they are no auto-sensing ones.
But...
If I spend nearly 3-times more than a cheap 4-ch scope from siglent (1104X-E), shouldn´t I expect to get better probes with it ?

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #412 on: February 06, 2020, 10:16:26 pm »
Then again... I'd expect a professional user already has good probes. It is rare for me to use the probes which come with an oscilloscope. Usually the ones included are there as a courtesy to get going.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #413 on: February 06, 2020, 10:21:20 pm »
Still, what kind of crap is it to sell a scope with probes that can't be automatically detected???
So pray tell us which fixed attenuation autosense probes might a customer want ?
1x, 10x, 20x, 50x, 100x or 1000x ?

Customers that know what they want always ask what's supplied before purchasing.
I think, this is not the point.
Siglent delivered to the 1400 bucks model the cheapest probes you can get - sure they are no auto-sensing ones.
But...
If I spend nearly 3-times more than a cheap 4-ch scope from siglent (1104X-E), shouldn´t I expect to get better probes with it ?

Probes supplied have always matched the BW of the scope....not the hacked BW.
SDS2000X was no different and it had autosense inputs as does SDS5000X yet they are supplied with 500 MHz 10x probes @ $229 ea however it's totally in another class of equipment.  ;)
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #414 on: February 06, 2020, 10:24:52 pm »
Quote
It is rare for me to use the probes which come with an oscilloscope

Lucky one.

By the way, the probes Lecroy ships with e.g. the WR9054 we got, costs 700€ when you buy them separate.
EACH....

Quote
I'd expect a professional user already has good probes.

Maybe this is the point, professional vs hobbyists.
You can´t expect that a hobbyist buy the same price for probes as he payed for the scope.

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #415 on: February 06, 2020, 10:28:40 pm »
So pray tell us which fixed attenuation autosense probes might a customer want ?
1x, 10x, 20x, 50x, 100x or 1000x ?
This is a ridiculous discussion. Every somewhat respectable scope comes with 1:10 autosense probes by default. If Siglent chooses to be cheap, don't blame this on the customer.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #416 on: February 06, 2020, 11:23:30 pm »
Why? I really like to have 1x / 10x switchable probes because the 1x setting is nice to look at small signals. And autosense doesn't make much sense if you are only going to use 10x probes anyway. You can configure the default to be 10x probes. Things get different if you are using probes which have something like an I2C eeprom in them with calibration constants and/or can let the oscilloscope know what kind of attenuation and unit (voltage, current, power, etc) the probe measures.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 11:27:08 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #417 on: February 06, 2020, 11:26:10 pm »
So pray tell us which fixed attenuation autosense probes might a customer want ?
1x, 10x, 20x, 50x, 100x or 1000x ?
This is a ridiculous discussion. Every somewhat respectable scope comes with 1:10 autosense probes by default. If Siglent chooses to be cheap, don't blame this on the customer.
Low BW models are targeting a price point pure and simple which is no different to any other brand.
The customer has choice to spec their scope as they wish.

The manufacture cannot know the end use nor if the scope is to have a BW upgrade at some later time.
Let's look at the additional costs for this upper entry level DSO.
PP510 100 MHz 1x/10x $10ea
PP215 200 MHz 1x/10x $27ea
SP2030A 300 MHz 10x autosense $59ea
SP3050A 500 MHz 10x autosense $229ea

Take your pick and it will affect the base purchase price but also remember with full BW upgrades 2 channels might require two 500 MHz probes.
The right probe option to suit all customers is not straightforward and even the most logical choice SP2030A x four adds a further $200 to the base price of the DSO.
Will everyone that buys a low BW SDS2kX+ be content to fork out an additional $200 and be limited to 10x usage ?  :-//

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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #418 on: February 07, 2020, 03:34:50 am »
I understand Martin72's point.  The SDS2000X plus is not targeted for the hobbyist, I consider it to be entry level professional.  Siglent should include the 300MHz probes, minimum.  It does not make any sense to include $27 (probably $15 cost for Siglent) probes in a $1300 scope.
 

Online tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #419 on: February 07, 2020, 04:18:53 am »
Round and round and round we go.  ::)

Restrict the scopes sensitivity with a 10x autosense probe, nah doesn't make sense.
500uV/div sensitivity is a feature, why limit yourself to 5mV/div ?  :-//

Siglent can provide a switchable 300 MHz 1x/10x probe for $55ea.
https://siglentna.com/product/pp430-300-mhz-oscilloscope-probe/

Or a 300 MHz 10x autosense one for $59ea.
https://siglentna.com/product/sp2030a-auto-sense-300-mhz-oscilloscope-probes/

Both compact probes with compensation adjustments in the BNC connector.

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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #420 on: February 07, 2020, 04:49:02 am »
What is the BW limit on a 1x/10x probe in 1x mode?
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #421 on: February 07, 2020, 05:41:52 am »
What is the BW limit on a 1x/10x probe in 1x mode?

Without details about every model. 1x roughly around 5 -12MHz when we are talking these usual 1x/10x selectable cheap probes. Input capacitance is there "enormous".
But yes, 1x can also use as LPF.  Of course probes can also use as LPF what cutoff can easy set as need as explained with cheap method cutoff can easy adjust (one example in BodePlot II thread if I remember right).
Good quality nomal fixed 1x probes are bit different.
Then also sidenote what everyone of course know. Probes BW's are as standard specified for 25 ohm source impedance.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 05:43:57 am by rf-loop »
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #422 on: February 07, 2020, 05:50:18 am »
Round and round and round we go.  ::)

Restrict the scopes sensitivity with a 10x autosense probe, nah doesn't make sense.
500uV/div sensitivity is a feature, why limit yourself to 5mV/div ?  :-//

Siglent can provide a switchable 300 MHz 1x/10x probe for $55ea.
https://siglentna.com/product/pp430-300-mhz-oscilloscope-probe/

Or a 300 MHz 10x autosense one for $59ea.
https://siglentna.com/product/sp2030a-auto-sense-300-mhz-oscilloscope-probes/

Both compact probes with compensation adjustments in the BNC connector.

Full BW 500uV/div, 1M scope input port impedance,  and need full BW 1x probe. Bit challenging is it... if we talk passive probes. Least not available from Siglent, not even nearly but something over 5MHz can... bit far away from full 500MHz BW 500uV/div...

Why limit to well under 10MHz...  (something for, why limit to 5mV/div)  ;)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 05:58:35 am by rf-loop »
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #423 on: February 07, 2020, 07:43:26 am »
What is the BW limit on a 1x/10x probe in 1x mode?

On passive probe, pretty much 1/10th of the bandwidth of 1/10 probe, or worse.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #424 on: February 07, 2020, 10:14:00 am »
What is the BW limit on a 1x/10x probe in 1x mode?
That is a tricky question. In 1x mode the probe will load the circuit with a much higher capacitance so when measured with a 25 Ohm source (*) the bandwidth will appear much lower. However when hooked to a low impedance source (say a beefy MOSFET gate driver) it won't matter much.

* Which is the standard method to measure probe bandwidth.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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