Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[tautech]

Certainly rise time for square and pulse waveforms are nothing to write home about as I've checked them at several frequencies and even in pulse mode they remain ~25ns.

However on the BW -3dB point a nice surprise that initially I thought I'd made errors trying to measure.
Yet after many checks of setup of what I was seeing on the display I can inform the -3dB point for SDS2104X Plus is some 185 MHz. 

Sinewave ex SDG6022X, 50 ohm output and input termination. 600mm unknown quality BNC.
1V level set @ 10 MHz as shown by cursors.

[NoisyBoy]

Cheap cable or defective scope?  That can’t be right.

How about testing the same setup on your SDS5000X?  I presume all bandwidth filters are off?

[tautech]

Cheap cable or defective scope?  That can’t be right.

You're quite right, a cheap unknown cable gives misleading results......lower than for good cables ! 
1 GHz rated BNC's and 6 GHz N type with adapters also used.

How about testing the same setup on your SDS5000X? 

Frequency and levels values checked against SDS5054X SDS5104X for three yes three sine wave generators each capable of 200+ MHz, SDG6022X, SSG3021X and an old HP8654B.

However all results ~+ 5% on 185 MHz for the SDS2104X Plus -3dB point which is darn impressive for a 100 MHz DSO. However until others confirm these measurements all you have is my report, take it or leave it.

I presume all bandwidth filters are off?

Interestly with the 200 MHz BW filter ON in the SDS5054X the result was quite similar which IMO adds to increased confidence in the measurements obtained.
YMMV

[NoisyBoy]

My mistake!  I thought your scope was the 350MHz model, 185MHz -3dB point is darn impressive for a 100MHz scope!

I do hope Siglent can improve on the AWG though, this is one area where the Rigol MSO5000 is superior.  The 10MHz square wave on it looks decent with a 12ns rise time.

[jemangedeslolos]

It's great but it is not impressive in my opinion.
The frontend is able to handle 350Mhz and/or 500 on 2 channels.

Siglent is generous with the BW filter but I think I have read similar results among competitors on this forum.

[tautech]

I do hope Siglent can improve on the AWG though, this is one area where the Rigol MSO5000 is superior.  The 10MHz square wave on it looks decent with a 12ns rise time.

Yes maybe they can or maybe it's some risetime HW limitation IDK.
However the SDS2kX Plus AWG is a 50 MHz unit so I fail to see why you call it inferior. 

[thinkfat]

Square wave max frequency is 10MHz... and it says <24ns rise time

That would hint a bandwidth only marginally better than 10 MHz for square wave (0.35 / 24ns,  0.015 GHz). No wonder it looks mostly like a sine wave.

[jemangedeslolos]

I do hope Siglent can improve on the AWG though, this is one area where the Rigol MSO5000 is superior.  The 10MHz square wave on it looks decent with a 12ns rise time.

Yes maybe they can or maybe it's some risetime HW limitation IDK.
However the SDS2kX Plus AWG is a 50 MHz unit so I fail to see why you call it inferior. 

Without looking at numbers, It seems that the MSO5000 has better 10Mhz square wave.
Maybe thanks to its better sampling rate ?

I never tried the inbult AWG on my MSO5000

[TK]

I don't mind the crappy 10MHz square wave, I can generate a better one that fits my need using a microcontroller... but lack of modulation is a big mistake.  They are charging a lot of money for the AWG option.

[Martin72]

but lack of modulation is a big mistake.

I think, it could be realizing by firmware upgrade.

Below the specs of the siglent and rigol built-in awg.

[EEVblog]

A Siglent SDS2000X-E just turned up in my lab unannounced.
So they now have the SDS2000X, SDS2000X-E, and the SDS2000X+ 
I'm clearly not keep up with the times...
How out of date am I? Judging by the number of posts in this thread, it seems quite a lot...

[NoisyBoy]

Hey Dave,

It would be very interesting if you would do a tear-down and compare it against other scopes on this market segment.  There are a lot of good discussions about this scope from a small group of owners, but no teardown as far as I know.  I would love to know the construction and the quality of the components in the scope.

[tautech]

A Siglent SDS2000X-E just turned up in my lab unannounced.
So they now have the SDS2000X, SDS2000X-E, and the SDS2000X+ 
I'm clearly not keep up with the times...
How out of date am I?

Only a bit over a year behind:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-e/

[EEVblog]

It would be very interesting if you would do a tear-down and compare it against other scopes on this market segment.  There are a lot of good discussions about this scope from a small group of owners, but no teardown as far as I know.  I would love to know the construction and the quality of the components in the scope.

Can do.

[Martin72]

Excellent ! 

[miyagi]

Hello, I really want to upgrade my scope now. I am hesitating between MSO5074 and SDS2104X Plus. I am keen to the Siglent after saw Martin's posts. But MSO5074 can be upgraded. So hard to decide now.  Martin, can you or tv84 confirm and share the trick？ Thank you!

[DL2XY]

Just found a bug in FFT:  Cursor readouts (X-axis) are incorrect.
Someone who can confirm?

[Martin72]

Hi,

Would test it tomorrow and report here.

Martin, can you or tv84 confirm and share the trick？

What trick ?

So hard to decide now.

Keep in mind, that the sds2104x+ costs 500 bucks more than a mso5074.
If this is no problem, well….
The pros and cons between these scopes from my sight I´ve posted several times ago.

[MT]

However all results ~+ 5% on 185 MHz for the SDS2104X Plus -3dB point which is darn impressive for a 100 MHz DSO.

Thats interesting indeed but isnt that due to the 500Mhz input stage (2204x) with software controlled band limiting turned on just as 1104x is a band limited 1204x?

[Martin72]

Do you have a conversation to them ?
Since I´ve own the sds2000x+, I´ve tried it two times and still got no answer from them...

[thm_w]

Thats interesting indeed but isnt that due to the 500Mhz input stage (2204x) with software controlled band limiting turned on just as 1104x is a band limited 1204x?

Sure, but why limit the band to 180MHz? Its generously 80% over spec. Typically you'd see a 100MHz scope limited to say 120-140MHz, enough to ensure it meets the minimum specs in all use cases. Maybe they realize no one cares at this point.

LMH6518 has band limits of 20, 100, 200, 350, 650, 700. But I don't know if anyone is still using that IC.

[tautech]

However all results ~+ 5% on 185 MHz for the SDS2104X Plus -3dB point which is darn impressive for a 100 MHz DSO.

Thats interesting indeed but isnt that due to the 500Mhz input stage (2204x) with software controlled band limiting turned on just as 1104x is a band limited 1204x?

Nope, the SDS2104X Plus I have here is just as it came from the factory so the SW BW limiting is for the 100 MHz version although as you say the inputs are designed for 500 MHz.

So while the analog input path may manage high frequencies perfectly fine the BW setting and filtering stages set the frequency rolloff particular to a model which in the case of SDS2104X Plus as we've found is high for a DSO of this class.

Dave did a related video on how amplitude and BW are controlled in a single chip:
https://www.eevblog.com/2019/07/10/eevblog-1228-do-digital-scopes-have-real-verniers/

[Martin72]

Hi,

Where do you send your requests to, maybe you send them to a wrong address?

To this one:

https://www.siglenteu.com/contact-us/

Maybe your mails get stuck in spam?

Maybe, my adress ended with @gmx.de

[MT]

However all results ~+ 5% on 185 MHz for the SDS2104X Plus -3dB point which is darn impressive for a 100 MHz DSO.

Thats interesting indeed but isnt that due to the 500Mhz input stage (2204x) with software controlled band limiting turned on just as 1104x is a band limited 1204x?

Nope, the SDS2104X Plus I have here is just as it came from the factory so the SW BW limiting is for the 100 MHz version although as you say the inputs are designed for 500 MHz.

Im not entirely sure i understood the nope part.

So while the analog input path may manage high frequencies perfectly fine the BW setting and filtering stages set the frequency rolloff particular to a model which in the case of SDS2104X Plus as we've found is high for a DSO of this class.

So what you said there is what i meant, i.e the bandwidth is there but limited by software function,
so the 2104x should, as the 1104x, be able to be uphacked if software enables that i presume, right?
 

Dave did a related video on how amplitude and BW are controlled in a single chip:
https://www.eevblog.com/2019/07/10/eevblog-1228-do-digital-scopes-have-real-verniers/

Im aware of that video, i dont see Dave talk about BW only the VGA and its BW is quite flat on all gains. Do the 2104x+ use the AD8370 as well?

Sure, but why limit the band to 180MHz? Its generously 80% over spec. Typically you'd see a 100MHz scope limited to say 120-140MHz, enough to ensure it meets the minimum specs in all use cases. Maybe they realize no one cares at this point.

LMH6518 has band limits of 20, 100, 200, 350, 650, 700. But I don't know if anyone is still using that IC.

Yep, why leave it at 184Mhz? no idea really. 1104x seams to use HMCAD1511. BW limiting circuitry are unique to LMH6518 while AD8370 dont have that. https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/hmcad1511.pdf

[Martin72]

This is wrong.

Aha.

If this (siglenteu located in hamburg, germany) is the wrong contact, shouldn´t they tell me about it instead of doing nothing ?