Author Topic: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry  (Read 43224 times)

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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #250 on: December 20, 2018, 03:17:48 am »
Fundamentally wrong the 'people' have little or no power to change anything. You the 'people' are told how to behave or else by your elite.

Power to change or attempt change is something most countries in the world allow. Totalitarian, Despotic and Religiously run states cling to power by reducing or removing the power of the people.

This is no longer true as I have been trying to explain. because it is framed as conflicting with the new economic governance institutions, who hold the real power. This is not a secret, if you know where to look.

Its a diagnostic sign of totalitarianism (See Arendt, page 413) when real power is held by an power structure which duplicates the functionality of the old traditional institutions and the people are left barking up the wrong tree, in a futile attempt to change policy, when of course that power has moved elsewhere.

Google the phrase 'inverted totalitarianism' .

The test is of course whether the people could vote to actually effect change and have it happen.

If you think about it, in a pluralist state, if both parties are in on the game, there is no way to bring that about.

This is why, for example, in the US in 2016, it was unspoken that Bernie Sanders could not win in the Democratic Party. Because his entire platform was violative of GATS the 1995 treaty and were he to have won, then there would be a demand to implement that platform, which would cause a huge ruckus in the WTO and basically threaten all of the trade deals.

Democracy makes peoples lives better but its being prevented because people voting for things they need would cut into the expected profits of TNCs.



I think that for this reason, the (US) Democrats deliberately lost in 2016. Despite Sanders huge popularity and a guaranteed win there, they couldn't risk a victory, there would be too much pressure to fix things.


« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:00:21 am by cdev »
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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #251 on: December 20, 2018, 03:30:40 am »
Please clarify what you mean. Do you mean via the college entrance examination?  What about the Uigurs? Or the millions of children - many the children of North Korean women who are persona non grata and live in fear for their lives in China. Their poor children who have no 'hukou' and don't exist? What about the 'migrants' who are unable to get permission to live in urban areas but who go there for work? What about people with 'bad family background'? I would be surprised if the social mobility there was as good or better than in in the EU's most equal states even with the narrow but significant improvements in income for the well educated and lucky. It depends a lot on who you are and who you know. certainly China HAS done much better than India, though in creating a middle class. They have come a long way, thats true, and thats likely because there has been pressure on them to do right by their people. But in many ways the government there is really clueless - at least as far as understanding what the rest of the world expects of them.

I do understand what you are trying to say and I am mulling your argument that its better to know where people really stand than to be lied to. You have to understand that there are certain things that would drive people half mad if they knew them, especially naive young people. But, they would eventually get a grip on the situation and would make plans based on reality and not false hopes.

Fundamentally wrong the 'people' have little or no power to change anything. You the 'people' are told how to behave or else by your elite.

The difference being in China, everyone has a chance of being elite.
The majority of successful business persons in China are born just as every other civilian.
You don't be an elite then be successful. You be successful then be an elite.

The earnings elasticity in China is high, at 60%, way higher than average western countries, but very close to certain western countries with high rich people concentration.
The earnings elasticity in US and Italy is 47%, UK being 50%, and Luxembourg at 75%.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #252 on: December 20, 2018, 03:45:18 am »
China doesn't execute many people, instead many people are sentenced to death with 2 year buffer time, which automatically gets bumped to life sentence at the end of the two years if no major crimes are conducted in prison during the two years, which then automatically gets bumped to 20 years imprisonment in two years, again, providing no major violations.

So death sentence in China is really 24-year imprisonment.

Death sentence with immediate (read: one month) execution does get sentenced, but very rare. According to Chinese law, at least one, usually two, of the four extremes can qualify death sentence with immediate execution:

1. Crimes with extreme inhumane methods (say, torture to death)
2. Crimes with extreme negative social influence (say, a cop murders a civilian)
3. Crimes with extreme devastating damage (say, blowing up a plane)
4. Crimes with extreme evil motivation (say, raping a child)

According to several international human right organizations' data, every year China sentences ~5000 death sentences, among them ~1500 are actually executed.
Considering every year Chinese DEA busts a number of armed drug syndicates, and armed drug crimes are usually qualified as death penalty with immediate execution, it's not hard to think the majority of the executed are drug gang members.
That makes the executed death penalty condemned only less than a few hundreds, excluding armed gangs.
For a country with 1.4Bn population, only less than a few hundreds executed per year for assorted reasons seems to be a fairly low percentage.

Another reason that death penalty still exists is that Chinese people like it. The traditional ideology for thousands of years is simple - pay lives with lives, pay money with money.
Multiple questionnaires conducted both by authority and civilian organizations both reveal the absolute vast majority population in China encourages death penalty for those did the absolute unthinkable.
Even if it's "just" 1500 executions, it's still more than all the other nations in the world combined. The fact that the government refuses to release official numbers suggests the numbers aren't favourable. "An eye for an eye" is a common concept in undeveloped parts of the world, which tends to disappear as they develop. It's not a productive or very effective approach. Harsh penalties do not equal effective penalties.
 
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #253 on: December 20, 2018, 03:53:36 am »
Fundamentally wrong the 'people' have little or no power to change anything. You the 'people' are told how to behave or else by your elite.

The difference being in China, everyone has a chance of being elite.
The majority of successful business persons in China are born just as every other civilian.
You don't be an elite then be successful. You be successful then be an elite.

The earnings elasticity in China is high, at 60%, way higher than average western countries, but very close to certain western countries with high rich people concentration.
The earnings elasticity in US and Italy is 47%, UK being 50%, and Luxembourg at 75%.

And yet you ignore what is a core difference in China the PEOPLE HAVE NO POWER unless you are of the elite or have Guanxi with the elite or pay bribes to the elite. A farmer or factory worker in China has NO ability to ask, speak about much less demand change of the system. To believe people have power in the Chinese system is just swallowing the parties line of BS.
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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #254 on: December 20, 2018, 04:12:42 am »
Whats going to happen in China when AI starts cutting into the jobs that go to people? When the worker class is no more and there is no longer almost any work. Except for the most skilled, really world class talent.

This is inevitable in the not too distant future, in fact its already happening. lets say its 2045 and only 25% of the population has any work at all and most of those jobs are sporadic. Business just runs itself. How will your elite justify their luxurious lives when people are starving and hungry?

Social safety nets are being dismantled.

In the Western countries all the elites are of one mind.  They want to present a united front against "communism", which they very broadly define as people sharing almost anything. Anything that cuts into profits.

Now granted, I am sure they Chinese elites have a cozy relationship with their Western counterparts on certain levels but, lets face it, people are people. And China is a 'peoples republic'. The original one.

 If the government can no longer keep work flowing to the populace, would there be another 1989?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:16:58 am by cdev »
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #255 on: December 20, 2018, 04:12:56 am »
American cops, DEA and troops combined kill a few times more than that amount each year.
When I say 1500, I included those captured armed gang members who shot cops before being captured, and those human vessels transporting kilograms of drugs in a swallowed condom.
For various reasons except for gang and drug activities, the number goes below a few hundreds.

I personally know two murderers, both remote family members. Neither got the needle.
I honestly can't find that in any numbers from organisations who monitor these kinds of things and the description of what's included seems to describe an actual trial and execution. Not shootings or ad hoc executions during arrest. If this was the case, those DEA deaths would be included too which would level the playing field.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #256 on: December 20, 2018, 04:25:21 am »
Large numbers of Americans die of treatable illnesses because of lack of medical care. Even a small medical debt prevents access to the health care system. This is the situation in China and India too. I don't know which is worse.

A LOT of people die because they cant get medical care. They blame it on themselves. This destruction of the poor's self esteem is a particularly insidious form of brainwashing.

In the US its the working poor who fall through the cracks. They make too much to get help but not enough to afford health care.

This guy tried to fix this.


He died a few weeks after this video was taken.

----

Meanwhile, Trump is bonding with Kim Jong Un..

BBC: "Trump on Kim Jong-un: 'We fell in love'

The US president told a rally in Wheeling, West Virginia that the North Korean leader had sent him "beautiful" letters. The pair met in a landmark summit earlier this year after previously exchanging threats."

Here is the problem, a culture of impunity. Study after study shows that we would be smart to not encourage people to aspire to be rich because the rich are far more likely to be amoral and do ethically anti-social things. They are leading the planet into a situation almost guaranteed to end in disaster with lie after lie.

If you ask me, ideology is a trap, what we need is to give people love and mutual respect but doing that requires ending the extreme cult of competition. Because thats what it is.

We don't need to compete like that any more. We're outgrowing any need to. Thats what they are trying so hard to hide.

Its science that is responsible for our advances, not neoliberalism.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:38:23 am by cdev »
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #257 on: December 20, 2018, 04:27:57 am »
I was including shootings during confronting.
Those don't appear to be included in the numbers in either case.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #258 on: December 20, 2018, 04:30:06 am »
Large numbers of Americans die of treatable illnesses because of lack of medical care. Even a small medical debt prevents access to the health care system. This is the situation in China and India too. I don't know which is worse.

A LOT of people die because they cant get medical care. They blame it on themselves. This destruction of the poor's self esteem is a particularly insidious form of brainwashing.

In the US its the working poor who fall through the cracks. They make too much to get help but not enough to afford health care.

This guy tried to fix this.


He died a few weeks after this video was taken.
Could the injecting of personal agenda items into random forum discussions perhaps be dialled back a tad?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #259 on: December 20, 2018, 04:34:34 am »
In China we are not allowed to have guns, and armed gang members usually quit resisting pretty quickly after their boss dies.
So the number killed during confronting in China is pretty low.
I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make. This isn't much different from large parts of the world.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #260 on: December 20, 2018, 04:38:41 am »
My point is to find the data that favors China.
Your focus is on total executed with sentence, which doesn't favor China.
My focus is on total executed with out without sentence, which favors China.
None of the numbers really favour China. China executes a ridiculous amount of people compared to pretty much any other nation.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #261 on: December 20, 2018, 04:50:35 am »
He's pointing out that hundreds of often nonwhite Americans die every year in avoidable confrontations with police where police shoot to kill often when there is no reason to use deadly force, its a serious problem in the US.

And it is different than the whole rest of the world, no other country has this problem.

In China we are not allowed to have guns, and armed gang members usually quit resisting pretty quickly after their boss dies.
So the number killed during confronting in China is pretty low.
I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make. This isn't much different from large parts of the world.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #262 on: December 20, 2018, 04:52:35 am »
Blueskull, what percentage of convicted Chinese 'criminals' turn out to be innocent on appeal, say when they are exonerated by DNA evidence?

In China we are not allowed to have guns, and armed gang members usually quit resisting pretty quickly after their boss dies.
So the number killed during confronting in China is pretty low.
I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make. This isn't much different from large parts of the world.

My point is to find the data that favors China.
Your focus is on total executed with sentence, which doesn't favor China.
My focus is on total executed with out without sentence, which favors China.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #263 on: December 20, 2018, 04:56:38 am »

That's exactly how my country is designed to be. It's equal, but not fair. The bribe part is to be eliminated, and I agree with you on that part.

The system stimulates everyone to fight for power, thus exciting productivity.

Even in Mao's time it was in the law that China was led by worker class, which at that time, was considered advanced, compared with farmer class.

It is absolutely not equal. Having NO say or option to say it is the opposite of equal. You seem intent on repeating the parties line in BS but it has no basis in truth. If you 'fight for power' in China you disappear or go to jail.

Unfortunately the ideals of Mao of a peoples state have become far more like what came before except you have replaced the Royalty with a peoples Royalty.
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Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #264 on: December 20, 2018, 04:58:43 am »
My point is to find the data that favors China.
Your focus is on total executed with sentence, which doesn't favor China.
My focus is on total executed with out without sentence, which favors China.
None of the numbers really favour China. China executes a ridiculous amount of people compared to pretty much any other nation.

Its entirely possible that North Korea executes huge numbers of people. For example, a few years ago when they closed down Kwaliso #22 just northeast of Hoeryong, across the Tumengang from China, Some of the prisoners were reportedly transported to Camp 16 near Hwasong (right next to the nuke testing site) but they appear to have been a very small number, they may have starved as many as 30,000 prisoners to death. Selling the food that was supposed to go to them. Now Hoeryong is being groomed to be a foodies paradise. A prisoner would likely have been beaten to death for eating a single apple.

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Offline cdev

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« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 05:10:28 am by cdev »
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Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #266 on: December 20, 2018, 05:09:47 am »
This matter and its context is so complicated I can't even begin to form any kind of synthesis worth sharing. Hence I've been avoiding it so far. But here's a few points I'd like to make.

Law, and moral justice, are different things. It's only the extent to which government tries to maintain an illusion that laws are Just, that varies from country to country. Most don't try very hard. Neither the USA or China have great track records there. Mostly the structure of Law is used to maintain control of the populace, by whatever Elites stand behind the facade of government and law.

In China there's little pretense of Law standing as a separate body for the common good. And the Elites also show themselves directly as the government. Albeit with the usual factional contests.

In the West and the USA it's much more about sustaining pretenses of freedom and democracy, while in reality it's mostly a farce of heavily rigged elections, highly advanced means of manipulating public opinion and illusions, and ensuring that only politicians/officials with robust blackmail handles get elected or appointed to positions of power. As always the Elites run almost everything, but do it with little public awareness. Mostly via various intermediaries such as large corporations, NGOs, UN/EU structures, but also through members acting as political figureheads. Such as the Bush and Clinton criminal families, with the near-totally Elite controlled MSM maintaining their 'face' despite endless uncovered crimes. Plus the usual factional contests. Some significant grouping names being 'deep state', DNC, MIC, Neocons, and the Z-entity.

There's a near infinity of topics related to incompatibilities between law and morality. Regarding Meng Wanzhou, the root issue is the US sanctions on Iran. These are _completely_ immoral and based on lies. So everything in law derived from those sanctions is also moraly void. Of course that has zero effect on what will actually happen.

The whole Middle East mess, with Iran a part of it, has deep origins. Simplifying, US plans to attack multiple Middle Eastern countries arose before 9/11, with the Neocon 'Project for a New American Century', aka PNAC group.
https://journal-neo.org/2014/10/09/the-neoconservative-hit-list-iraq-libya-and-now-syria-a-plan-for-global-u-s-military-supremacy/

Targeted by the PNAC group: Iraq, Syria, Iran and Libya.
Right after 911, those war plans were put into action.

youtube   watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five Years
youtube   watch?v=WGkSNAHqpJM
Gen. Wesley Clark Reveals Middle East Invasion Was Pre-Planned & Iran is NEXT

That post-9/11 target list included Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, plus extras Lebanon, Somalia and Sudan.

Result: Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria suffered massive death and destruction. None of those countries had anything at all to do with 9/11.
Was it about oil? No not really. 'For the oil' is just a convenient cover story. There was a deeper objective. That list just happens to be countries included in Israel's 'Eretz Israel' expansion plans. Countries Israel hopes to destroy in order to subsume them. One can wonder why the USA's actions so closely conform to what Israel wants.

Libya also committed three unforgivable sins in US/Iraeli and Globalist banker eyes- #1 was to propose a gold-backed currency, #2 was Libya nationalizing the foreign oil holdings and using oil sales revenue to provide for the Libyan people, #3 was the Great Man Made River project. That was completed and turning Libya into an irrigated farming major food source in the ME. A success Israel could not allow to stand. So the US bombed the pipelines, pumping stations and even the factories that manufactured the pipes. No more Libyan miracle.

Iran has so far avoided destruction, for only one reason. After the breakup of the Soviet Union Iran bought some black market nukes from an ex-Soviet country. They presumably still have them, and no doubt were able to maintain them. Iran's missiles are pretty good, so they presumably can deliver those nukes if needed. This is why neither Israel or their proxy USA has attacked Iran.
All the US & Israeli administration hysteria about "Iran is about to develop nukes" is bullshit, and a code phrase for something else, quite real, that totally freaks out the US military.

Iran has a civilian nuclear power program, that works. They have their own rich uranium mines. They can refine uranium, and international inspections repeatedly verify they only refine to concentrations suitable for their power reactors. But that's what enrages the US/Israeli military.

Since you see, refining uranium to fuel, at any concentration, produces a waste product - nearly pure U238, aka depleted uranium. This has few uses, but one of them is militarily extremely significant. Munitions made of DU due to the metal's extreme density can penetrate heavy armor. The US & Israeli armies have _never_ fought an opponent who possesses DU weaponry. For all practical purposes they _cannot_ fight such a war. Because they rely on their weapons 'sophistication' and high tech, rather than quantity. But there's no sophistication that defends against a DU round. In such a fight attrition in armor and personnel would be very high. Beyond what the US can sustain, either practically or politically.

And so, Iran's peaceful nuclear program and growing DU stockpile, hence US inability to attack with conventional armor and defeat them easily like Iraq, drives the Neocons and Z-entity types into hysterics. It blocks the Eretz Israel (insane) dream. Meanwhile Iran could glassify both major cities in Israel if poked, so sneak nuclear attacks are fraught too.

That impasse and hysteria underlies everything done and said against Iran by Western powers. The sanctions are just more of the same. To what extent Pres. Trump is aware of this background, or what he gets told by mil. advisers, I have no idea.

But overall, the basis of sanctions against Iran are utter crap and lies. Sure, not a terribly nice government. To a large extent that is the fault of the USA and CIA's messing with Iranian politics for many decades. That just made things worse, and promotes the religious fanatics. Iran used to be an open and secular society.



As for Huawei's phones and coms gear, what I gather is that it's not so much a matter of them containing possible Chinese backdoors (which they may), but that they _don't_ contain the backdoors mandated by the US government. Unlike virtually all other phone manufacturers, that folded to NSA demands. Every now and then there's some MSM production designed to pretend most phones (eg Apple's) do not have backdoors and are immune to government attempts to pry, but it's all bullshit.
Probably Huawei is going to suffer painfully until they agree to comply. Sucks to be them.


Another factor is the ongoing struggle between the Globalist/Leftists/Dems/Deep State, vs Donald Trump. So, Pres Trump was making some significant progress in negotiations with China regarding tariffs and trade imbalance. Naturally, since that's something he's pretty good at.
Suddenly a massive spanner in the works, as Canada kidnaps a Chinese woman under color of law. She's not just well known in China, she's the daughter of a Chinese national hero - the head of Huawei. Who is also tight with the Chinese military and government.

The timing is extraordinarily bad. A disaster really. One can safely assume this was done to make things worse for Pres. Trump.  It certainly looks bad, and will make negotiations terribly difficult. Though he seems to be making the best he can of a 'complicated situation.'

That brings us to the 'impartiality and fairness of the courts.' Give me a break. Anyone who believes such fairy stories has never had anything to do with the legal system, and also has had their fingers in their ears for general news, their whole lives. Please stop watching so much TV, it damages the brain.

Here's a quote from an Australian High Court silk, passed to me by a friend (who was being screwed over by the system, totally unjustly.) "There is no justice in the legal system."
This is absolutely true in Australia (I've experienced it myself too), and even worse in the USA. I see no evidence that Canada is any different.

Her arrest, at this time, was clearly politically motivated. One can guess by which faction. The only useful question now is how to clean up the mess.
Sure, the Canadian courts now have to put on a show of being impartial and following the rule of law. Bully for them, but TOO LATE.

Otoh if the USA withdraws the extradition request, the Canadians would have to drop the case and release her.
The question is whether Pres. Trump can override whatever legal process is under way in the USA. Can he order it dropped? I don't know. Whatever he does, 'the optics' are going to be difficult to optimize. I really don't believe he had anything to do with initiating this.

Meanwhile the Deep State are currently trying everything they can think of to start WWIII:
* Ukraine trying to mine and destroy the Kerch Strait bridge with a British demolition nuke, and getting caught at it.
* Ukraine moving masses of heavy armor and artillery up for an imminent attack on the Donbass.
* Ukraine proposing to make another attempt to run warships through the Kerch Strait.
  (Poroshenko needs a state of emergency, to cancel upcoming elections which he'd very likely lose.)
* Turkey threatening to invade northern Syria - which would result in a 6-way fight between Turkey, Kurds, Syria, ISIS, US troops, and Russian forces. Actually 7, since Israel would wade in too.

Neither Trump nor Putin want WWIII. Conceivably Meng Wanzhou's arrest could have also been intended as a distraction, something to divert Trump's attention from other developments. Or someone wishes the Chinese leadership to be angry and perhaps a bit rash at this time. Or... it serves as a 'poisoner' for public attitude to high profile arrests in general? (Gee, I wonder who might be worried about such things?)

High level strategies typically consider multiple effects, weighing up pros and cons.


Oh btw. Here's what I came to this thread to post:
  http://thesaker.is/the-pentagon-realised-what-it-has-done-the-chinese-put-the-us-army-on-its-knees/
About offshoring of critical industrial capacity.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 05:23:01 am by TerraHertz »
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #267 on: December 20, 2018, 05:11:52 am »
Think twice. How many Iranian and Iraqi civilians and fighters for their independence the NATO kills every year?

Let along those killed by trigger frenzy cops and DEA agents.
Let's stick to the subject. War situations governed by entirely different sets of laws are a different subject. The battlefield can't be compared to civilian life. Besides, we're not discussing how many Uighur are killed by direct or indirect action in or outside of the camps in China either. I think neither of us wants to go there.

An execution is also something different than a death during an arrest or raid. While I won't deny the US police forces have some serious issues with the use of violence, those are generally not executions and certainly not deliberate from the perspective of the government. Also, pointing to the US for doing a bad thing doesn't make another bad thing good. The world condemns the extreme violence used by US police forces as well, and it isn't remotely as common in most other countries. It may surprise you that UK cops don't even carry guns. In the entirety of Europe, the total number of people killed by police each year are pretty much negligible.

Even if we assume the US executes more people being second isn't exactly an achievement, and I don't think that assumption is correct either.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 05:27:43 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline apis

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #268 on: December 20, 2018, 05:20:53 am »
None of the numbers really favour China. China executes a ridiculous amount of people compared to pretty much any other nation.

Think twice. How many Iranian and Iraqi civilians and fighters for their independence the NATO kills every year?

Let along those killed by trigger frenzy cops and DEA agents.
Just because the US does bad things doesn't mean China should? Isn't the point of not having democracy that the elite can do what is right instead of what is popular. Populism is one of the downsides of democracy. Most of the countries in the world have abolished the death penalty.
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #269 on: December 20, 2018, 05:36:20 am »
Again, you are Australian, and you will never understand the fierce competitive culture in China. People literally fight for power. No exception.

Ahem... Some Australians understand. I think I do. And am very glad I don't have to live that way.
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Offline apis

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #270 on: December 20, 2018, 05:51:40 am »
We don't fight across the world, and most executed in China are drug dealers.
China has a particular hatred to drugs, mainly because drug war was the first war China lost to the west in modern history, and the beginning of Chinese government's lost of independence.
Banning drugs is a declaration on political incompatibility to the west and a declaration of absolute power of the government.
From that perspective, Chinese government has a very good reason on executing every drug dealers.
The Opium Wars was a dick move by the British empire ("the west" consists of different countries), and I can understand a strict policy against drugs. But the death penalty isn't effective at deterring crime and there is always the possibility of incorrect convictions. The government doesn't have to execute anyone, it has the power to take the moral high ground and not act as a murderer itself.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #271 on: December 20, 2018, 05:53:36 am »
You don't fight the power in China, your fight FOR power (i.e. by getting rich, by being celebrity, by being prestigious, etc.).
This culture starts from kindergarten. Chinese kids are taught to be nice, be smart, and not to get into trouble.
Teachers in China treat smart and well behaving kids well, and trash those kids who fail exams.
The "better kids get more power" thing literally starts with kindergarten, and goes all the way to college graduation, where the treat evolves to monetary benefit when a graduate walks into real life.

Again, you are Australian, and you will never understand the fierce competitive culture in China. People literally fight for power. No exception.

You need to open your mind  to what I am saying you are only repeating the parties doctrine of hypocrisy as a defense. Communist Styled Doctrine and Dogma have zero to do with getting ahead and are all about getting the 'people' to believe in the infallibility of the State and towing the party line. If you work hard and kiss the right asses you too will be rewarded.....

The Chinese system does not allow the 'people' to have any power. Your elite of lets just say a few thousand rules 1 billion+ who have no say in how they are ruled and 99.99% of them never will. That is not fair to the 'people' that is flawed to the vast majority.

Trying to make the claim that if you become xyz by doing abc might maybe let you have a say but only if the existing minority deems it allowed to anyone BORN with that sort of right for ALL OF THE PEOPLE of a society makes no sense at all.

I can get on social media, pick up a phone send a letter or email to any politician I like call them an asshole or even ask them pretty please with a cherry on top can you change xyz in China you can not do this at all. If I don't like them I get the option to boot them out of power every few years and have MY SAY in how I want in power. Democracy and basic Freedoms as said before are not perfect but they are better than none.

If you have never read anything by Orwell I strongly suggest you do.

Sorry this has gone way off topic.
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #272 on: December 20, 2018, 05:57:37 am »
Funny some of you guys are forgetting the words like "Native American Indian" .. or ... "Aborigin People", enough said.

Offline BravoV

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #273 on: December 20, 2018, 06:01:50 am »
We don't fight across the world, and most executed in China are drug dealers.
China has a particular hatred to drugs, mainly because drug war was the first war China lost to the west in modern history, and the beginning of Chinese government's lost of independence.
The Opium Wars was a dick move by the British empire ("the west" consists of different countries), and I can understand a strict policy against drugs. But the death penalty isn't effective at deterring crime and there is always the possibility of incorrect convictions. The government doesn't have to execute anyone, it has the power to take the moral high ground and not act as a murderer itself.

That was the time when China was "gang banged" by 8 nations, and then drugged using gov. backed & imported opium, pillaged & sucked dried for almost half century, until WWII started. Hence these unique entities so called HongKong, Macau, Taiwan exist for reasons.

And suddenly all of this so called developed, advanced and highly moralled nations starting to tell how China should behave accordingly , yeah, right.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 06:04:24 am by BravoV »
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #274 on: December 20, 2018, 06:09:18 am »
Funny some of you guys are forgetting the words like "Native American Indian" .. or ... "Aborigin People", enough said.

Not at all both have been mentioned in this thread. One of my best mates growing up was Koori and was one of the stolen people (apparently sleeping rough on the streets of Melbourne but no one is really sure  :( ). But Australian governments hypocrisy and piss poor behavior of the past is way off topic.
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 


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